US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - CHAOS on Christmas Eve

Planned or unplanned, there are a lot of sick-outs today. That's it folks. I'm cashing in my remaining 130K for a Star Alliance trip and saying See Ya. Almost 20 years with USAirways. Over 1 million lifetime points in the program. It's been real great, but it's apparent that the employees are simply fed up and don't really care who they pi55 off now.

Case in point:
PIT to PHL today(12/24):

flights 1101, 390 - ontime
flights 374, 234, 332, 188 - cancelled for lack of crew(per usairways.com)
flights 366, 1279 - cancelled with no reason given(on usairways.com)

Thanks, USAirways, for stranding my parents who were trying to get to PHL to visit their son for Christmas. Now they can drive the PA turnpike on Christmas day. At least the traffic will be light.

Thanks, USAirways, for listening to all the signs that there would be sick-outs through the holidays and planning for them.

Perhaps not. As seen here (http://kyw.com/news/local_story_358123432.html) they claim that "the issue is not a result of a work stoppage but instead a combination of bad weather elsewhere and high traffic volume. The airline is reportedly working to correct the problem." YMMV.

Though, you may want to see this report from the PHL ABC station (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/weather/122404_wx_winterstorm.html), it has both sides, including some angry passengers. Click video: Amy Buckman at PHL.

It's not weather now. It's an extremely high number of employees, specifically Flight Attendants, calling out sick. Lots of threads over on usaviation.com about this.

Dunno, my mom and sister flew LGA-PIT today and everything was fine, and the baggage claim was for both an inbound PHL and LGA flight and it looks like everything was fine. But sorry to hear it went south for you!

I know that it was a royal mess in PHL last night. 2 of my husband's legs were cancelled today (and usairways.com said that it was because of lack of crew). I guess that's partially true, because they didn't land until 3:00 this morning and they had to delay their takeoff this morning to get legal rest. They cancelled their 2 middle legs today to try to get the airplane back on schedule and not run everything 5 hours late.
I'm sorry it's been such a nightmare in parts of the system. I looked on the reserve screen for DCA today for f/a's and there were very few sick calls. Most of the problems today were the fact that the f/a's were already flying or out of time for the month. I don't doubt that they had a high rate of sick calls throughout the system though. Lots of folks with over 15 years still on call and still having to fly all through the holidays probably are fed up. I know, that's no excuse.
I hope the remainder of everyone's travels over the holidays are uneventful. I'll be flying over New Year's, and promise not to call in sick. :)

I find that odd. I did 2 MR's today from DCA to PHL. There were some flights that were delayed. But on the monitors (I kept a closeful eye on them) there were only 2 flights that I saw canceled. I am sure there were a couple more but nothing that was not out of the ordinary.

Many of the delays were from yesterday bleed over.

USAvation.com time and time again has been proven wrong.

PHL I am sorry to hear about your parents though. I hope this is not truly your last time with them.

I have also heard some horror stories with ORD and ATL today and mostly is from the winter storm clean up from yesterday.

A bunch of CSAs called in sick today in BOS, and the local ABC affliate reported that the Arrival/Departure monitors "strangly" went sour this morning right before the airport opened.

The DCA monitors were not being kept up to date today either.

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2732677


PHILADELPHIA Travelers at Philadelphia International Airport are separated from thousands of bags. Officials say it's because of weather-related diversions, cancellations and missed connections.

At Richmond International Airport, bags sat unclaimed next to the U-S Airways baggage counter on this evening. Dozens of travelers unable to find their luggage waited to speak with a customer service representative.

A spokeswoman for U-S Airways says she expects the company will make more progress on reuniting customers with their bags after 8 p.m., when fewer people will be flying.

Airline spokeswoman Amy Kudwa says U-S Airways is operating flights with only baggage and NO passengers from Philadelphia to a hub in Charlotte, North Carolina. She says workers there will sort the bags and get them to their proper destinations.

Kudwa says the problem is because of flights canceled due to the weather and regulations that mandate rest periods for flight crews.

Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

At least three PHL-BDL flights were cancelled due to lack of crew today. I was supposed to be on two of them before I threw in the towel and drove the 5 hours. Not a happy US customer today. :mad:

Edited to add another sob story:

I flew into PHL from SAN last night (the 23rd). We landed slightly late and then sat on the ground for close to three hours before pulling up to a gate. It's this kind of week that makes me question why I fly (or more specifically, why I fly through PHL).

I understand it's a holiday and there are huge crowds. I understand there's weather and how this causes problems. I understand how US is bankrupt and doesn't have the resources to do everything we might want. Nevertheless, I don't understand how people who are supposedly running an airline can tolerate an airport as broken as PHL was the last two days. If US managers started to work as hard at running their operation as they do at cutting costs, perhaps they might eventually make some money.

4/10 flights PHL-RDU were cancelled today, including both of the last two (830p and 1010p) - so much for those of us who had to work today.

40% cancels on Christmas Eve? Somehow I don't think this is going to get better tomorrow... oh, wait... I'm still on hold - totalling over an HOUR on the SP line. That's inclusive of being dropped out of the system twice after 35 minutes on hold. Straw, I'd like you to meet camel. :rolleyes:

...anybody stuck in PHL want to go in on Christmas dinner? :cool:

It seems like alot of baggage handlers got sick today :rolleyes: according to the PHL Fox station. Don't these morons realize what kind of job market there is out there for someone whose resume reads: "Lift objects, move them 10 feet and then drop. Go back and repeat cycle". Boy, I'm sure there are tons of Wall Street recuiters just itching to hire these guys. These guys are the most expendable and easiest to replace of all the unionized US employees. They are just falling all over themselves to give the BK judge a reason to void the contract.

Just saw the chaos at PHL on local news. NBC reports almost all US flights out of PHL are cancelled.Sad.

Just saw the chaos at PHL on local news. NBC reports almost all US flights out of PHL are cancelled.Sad.

Flew 42 from DEN-PHL today. Left about 40 or 50 minutes late, but the flight crew made some of the time up en route.

My connection (241 to CMH) was cancelled for the familiar reason of lack of crew. However, even if the flight wasn't cancelled, I would not have made it since we waited about an hour and a half to get from the taxiway to the gate.

I'm sitting on a dirty floor in PHL right now along with maybe 200 others, who may or may not have flight accomodations.

None of us have Airline provided accomodations for the night. Why? Beacause all the ticketing agents have been here since 6am and they have been sent home.

Any other FTers here on the dirty floor with me? I am at position 53...

--phil

I'm sitting on a dirty floor in PHL right now along with maybe 200 others, who may or may not have flight accomodations.


What's everyone having for dinner tonight? I am enjoying a net weight 1.6 oz package of Doritos crackers and a 1/2 pint of Poland springs bottled water, all courtesy of the Philadelphia Airport.

--phil

So sorry to hear about all this. I thought my day was bad when my flight was cancelled this a.m. from DCA to MCI and there were no flights left on ANY airline for the rest of the day from any of the three DC-area airports but I took solace in the fact that I was close to home. I took the refund but the disappointment to myself, my partner, and his folks in KC were palpable. Hearing your stories of being stranded in airports on Christmas Eve doesn't make me feel any better. All this is just awful. When I was signing the ticket refund stub which meant that there was no hope of getting to my destination before Christmas, I almost cried.

I wish you all the best of luck and lots of patience to get through this. And Happy Holidays to all. Things can only get better :)

To all of those who are severly late in getting to their families or have settled for refunds and no trip at all - I can't imagine the frustration and offer my sympathies and holiday wishes.

It is important to remember however that labor problems have plagued other airlines too. Noteably the summer of 2000 sick-out which wrecked havoc throughout UA's system for months and the Thanksgiving strike of AA in the mid-late 90's which stranded both my parents in the Carribean and family friends in Chile while adopting a kid. Airline emploer yees had far less to strike/sick-out about back then. While I don't support it - especially since it just allienates more customers - just remember this isn't just a US problem. And go to Europe - then you are talking major labor issues almost every month or one airline or one airport or another.

Happy Holidays!

I have a Northwest flight in the morning. I feel for all you guys - my brother told me to look at the news and I immediately freaked.

I don't really want to have to go tomorrow - it was the cheapest flight I could get and now it's probably the most valuable to someone that needs to get somewhere.

In any case, I have a First ticket all the way out west. I'd love to sell it and hang a couple more days in Philly - but there is no way NW will let me do this. And I'd come and hang with you guys but the NWA gate with the World Perks lounge is in another secure area so you'd have to deal with the efficient and professional security people several times.

To all of those who are severly late in getting to their families or have settled for refunds and no trip at all - I can't imagine the frustration and offer my sympathies and holiday wishes.

It is important to remember however that labor problems have plagued other airlines too. Noteably the summer of 2000 sick-out which wrecked havoc throughout UA's system for months and the Thanksgiving strike of AA in the mid-late 90's which stranded both my parents in the Carribean and family friends in Chile while adopting a kid. Airline emploer yees had far less to strike/sick-out about back then. While I don't support it - especially since it just allienates more customers - just remember this isn't just a US problem. And go to Europe - then you are talking major labor issues almost every month or one airline or one airport or another.

Happy Holidays!

Sorry... I don't buy that for a minute. Can anyone remember the last time this kind of crap ruined a major holiday for any other major? I sure can't. How many families have had their Christmases ruined thanks to the actions of the FAs?

They should strand the FA's and the families of the FA's for this behavior. Let THEM pay for their OWN hotel rooms at retail prices. This would show them how important their job is.

Two items:

They are running out of crews for a few reasons: one of them is time. Pilots can only fly so much in a given month or year, and US has been running "out of time" at the end of the month for a few months--why would the end of the year be any different? Further, while I cannot say one way or the other whether the FA sick calls were legit or not, do bear in mind that a rash of extremely cold weather did blow thru PIT and PHL a few days ago--added to the BS foisted by management and the court, what exactly did the whiz kids at CCY think was going to happen?

The second item: Crown Jewel. Enough said.

Just to give a bit of perspective from a US dominated airport, my mother flew from PIT to ATL during this time frame--although it was on DL, not US(the non-stop thing).

She told me that PIT wasn't too crowded, but ATL was a zoo. Cancelled and delayed flights. In fact, her DL flight was 90 minutes late departing PIT for the crew reason also--the f/a's were on another flight that got delayed with the weather.

Not saying US doesn't have labor issues, but some of those same issues of crews, cancellations are hitting other airlines, and I can attest to the "floor dwellers" encamped at ATL due to this whole lousy weather holiday.

Bah humbug.....!!~........ :mad:

..

God, this is so sad and frustrating to watch. My thoughts are with the poor US Airways pax whose holiday plans have been wrecked. Having once spent Christmas morning on the floor of EWR's North Terminal because People Express ran out of pilots, I totally sympathize.

It is so tragic to watch this airline commit suicide like this.... :(

They should strand the FA's and the families of the FA's for this behavior. Let THEM pay for their OWN hotel rooms at retail prices. This would show them how important their job is.
There were definitely some USAirways crew stuck in CLT tonight because they showed up for work and then missed their rides home...

I just saw the re-broadcast of the local PHL ABC broadcast. They stated it's a problem with labor. They showed a HUGE pile of suitcases in the ticketing area waiting for their owners. They also had video from the ABC station in BOS showing all those baggage carts out on the runway - idle. If you don't like your contract, negotiate one through the proper channels. Not like this. This was a perfect chance to make and keep new customers, along with keep current customers happy. From the OP on this thread, we see that won't happen. This could be the beginning of the end for this airline. Thanks to those wonderful employees who ruined a lot of Christmas gatherings. To those of you sleeping on the floor or seats at PHL. My sympathies. At least you are in some place relatively warm, as the temperature outside is currently, about 23F.

Two items:

They are running out of crews for a few reasons: one of them is time. Pilots can only fly so much in a given month or year, and US has been running "out of time" at the end of the month for a few months--why would the end of the year be any different? Further, while I cannot say one way or the other whether the FA sick calls were legit or not, do bear in mind that a rash of extremely cold weather did blow thru PIT and PHL a few days ago--added to the BS foisted by management and the court, what exactly did the whiz kids at CCY think was going to happen?

The second item: Crown Jewel. Enough said.

The "out of time" issue is especially relevant at this time of year as the year-long cap of 1000 hours comes into play. (FAA cap, not union work rules).

The "out of time" issue is especially relevant at this time of year as the year-long cap of 1000 hours comes into play. (FAA cap, not union work rules).

Spent 10 hours in the A concourse of PIT yesterday trying to get home for Christmas - finally made it into HPN about 5:35 PM after leaving out of HNL at 2:30PM the day before.

First PIT-HPN flight delayed due to lack of aircraft inbound from Toronto (delayed in Toronto due to lack of flight crew) then ultimately cancelled.

Rebooked onto next PIT-HPN flight which kept getting delayed first on a mechanical on the plane in Louisville then delayed numerous times due to lack of flight crew - finally took off at 4:30 PM (original flight time was 8:00AM). 4:10PM PIT-HPN flight also cancelled due to lack of crew. Of course to complicate matters, the tow-bar breaks down as we're getting pushed back from the gate, so we end up waiting another 10 minutes on the tarmac for the mechanics for that.

It seems like alot of baggage handlers got sick today :rolleyes: according to the PHL Fox station. Don't these morons realize what kind of job market there is out there for someone whose resume reads: "Lift objects, move them 10 feet and then drop. Go back and repeat cycle". Boy, I'm sure there are tons of Wall Street recuiters just itching to hire these guys. These guys are the most expendable and easiest to replace of all the unionized US employees. They are just falling all over themselves to give the BK judge a reason to void the contract.


I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is an FA who worked yesterday and is working today for Christmas. She said that over 60 Baggage handlers at PHL airport called in sick. :mad: She also said that many of the FA crews could not fly because the had not had the manditory rest time that is required per day therefore there were cancleed flights.

I guess I was pretty lucky doing my two R/T's yesterday from DCA PHL. They were both on time and the flights (all 4 segments) were packed 100% F/C and coach.

I think we are getting a glimpse of the future of air travel in the US (meaning the USA in general, not just USAirways). I am certainly not condoning what is going on here-- and I think it bears noting that at this point we are not esactly sure what is going on-- but what can the travelling public expect from a work force that will be making next to nothing once all the wage cuts take effect? How many people are willing to work the holidays, or work outside in the cold, for a job that pays $20k/year? The caliber of employee that will be attracted to such jobs in the future-- are they going to lose sleep over the fact that passengers can't get home for Christmas if they don't show up for work. They just don't care anymore.

It is sad but really I think this is an example of you get what you pay for, and a hint of things to come.

For years I have beaten the drum about the need to fix Philly as a precursor to repairng the company. It is obvious that they either refuse to recognize the problem, or are just incapable of fixing it. Given the continuing expansion of the operation there, I would go with the former. It also appears that the CSA group, and to a lesser extent, the F/A's, have been less accepting of the most recent "cramdown" in wage reductions. I suppose, if you are them, you reach a point where you don't draw the distinction between airing your personal frustration and damaging the workplace. As we apparently steam closer to the point where the cash runs out, we will probably see more of this. In some defense, the last couple of days couldn't have been worse. Heavy holiday traffic, a spate of unexpected severe weather, and a reduced work force (especially flight crew) which runs out of legally permissable hours by month end. I have recently noted in these threads, some improvement in strategic thinking, and observed that even ATA had people who wanted it, post bankruptcy, but I fear the end is near. In the animal kingdom, they say that even the elephant knows when it's time to go to the graveyard.

I flew a segment run (need to requal CP!) yesterday PIT-DCA-PIT-MCO, and on monday go MCO-CLT-DCA-PIT-EWR. When planning, I avoided PHL out of habit. Glad I avoided it yesterday. PIT did not seem to be a problem - I was actually surprised how calm everything seemed - I expected crowds/chaos, etc. I didn't see much of DCA - the plane I got off of turned out to be the one that went right back to PIT. That flight and MCO were 100% full. I did not check luggage. I have a lot of tight cnx monday, so we'll see how that goes.

My 18 year old son was flying BWI-PHL-RDU Friday due to cancellation of his BWI-CLT flight the day before, the friend he was staying with in Baltimore came back to the airport Thursday night and put him up for another night. This was my sons first time flying on his own. The BWI-PHL leg was running an hour late, and he made the mistake of checking his bag. He got to RDU 4 hours late (well, 20 hours late if you count the cancellation the day b4) and no bag.

I rmember flying RDU-ATL-FLL in 1982 on EA, was taking my fiance to meet my parents, there was a baggage handler sick out at ATL that day, the bags finally got to FLL as we were about to leave to return to RDU two days later. I never flew EA again, and was glad to see them liquidate. That was a week after (or was it a week before?) several EA baggage handlers were arrested for smuggling drugs, I guess the baggae handlers were too busy with drugs to bother with the fare paying customers bags.

I'm 36 miles short of requalifying for US Silver in 2004, was planning a R/T RDU-PHL this week for $78 to make it, now, why bother?

Flew STT-PHL yesterday after a nice week, the niceness ended upon landing in PHL. The inbound aircraft was late out of PHL by about 55 min, but no problem, although it was full on the way down, only about 70 on a 757 on the way back, so it turned quickly and we were off only a few late.

Landed in Philly, and we did the left turn after a 27R landing (never a good sign) and we were #13 in line for a gate, and being a 757, we can't use every gate in the airport. Experience showed that this would take about an hour, and indeed it took about 75 min to get to gate B11. The captain was seriously non-plussed.

Terminal was chaos. I feel for everyone there and was glad to be destinating in PHL, and the baggage claim area was worse. Thankfully I pack lightly ...

If you go over to the UAL boards on FT. Looks like the FA's had sickouts on UA as well. I see a few FT's got stranded as well.

I was on a flight a few months ago, sitting across from the jump seats. The FA's were talking about their planned "sick days" over the holidays and the various strategies for not getting caught. I just wanted to slap them silly.

Some of you seem to be discussing flights operated by US Airways Express. Remember, these flights are not operated by US Airways or its own personnel, but are independent contractors with their own crews, who are not (for the most part) under the same labor strains as mainline US Airways. Lack of crew on some of these flights is understandable..... like Chautauqua with their IND/CMH/SDF crew bases under the weather and PSA with its HQ and primary base in DAY. The closure of some of these airports is probably a contributing factor, plus some of these pilots are also timing out for the year (airlines like Chautauqua can't hire enough pilots right now.... got a few friends who fly for them who are very close to maxing out for the year). Before somebody says it, there are plenty of pilot and flight attendant jobs out there and most regional carriers are hiring like crazy. However, they are entry level and not jobs for folks like furloughed US B737 pilots.... would you go from a $120-150K a year job to $20K? I don't think so.

The second item: Crown Jewel. Enough said.
It is the people not the facility. This could have happened in PIT, and may have for all we know, except that so few people O&D from it that it doesn't really matter.

I flew into CLE on UA via Denver Xmas Eve... and my luggage didn't make it. When I arrived in CLE, there were lots of misconnected bags everywhere, from every airline. AA, DL, HP, UA, etc.

Went back last night to see if my bags had made it in yet (they were in ORD). And even more bags that were trying to catch up to their owners from all the airlines.

I think the weather was the principal contributor.

Fox news reporting airline to run special flights of just luggage no passengers to try and clear up mess. It was the main news story at 1pm,what a disaster 60 people deciding to destroy the airline,at the worst possible time.

Sorry noon not 1pm

It is the people not the facility. This could have happened in PIT, and may have for all we know, except that so few people O&D from it that it doesn't really matter.

The baggage system itself won't meltdown in PIT.

The weather means nothing to PIT in terms of terminal airspace and runway delays.

The labor can happen anywhere. PHL is still the "Crown Jewel."

I'm just wondering why people would gamble with their holiday travel by flying US? Ok, I can understand if US was the ONLY option to your destination, but not if you have other choices.

Planned or unplanned, there are a lot of sick-outs today. That's it folks. I'm cashing in my remaining 130K for a Star Alliance trip and saying See Ya. Almost 20 years with USAirways. Over 1 million lifetime points in the program. It's been real great, but it's apparent that the employees are simply fed up and don't really care who they pi55 off now.

Case in point:
PIT to PHL today(12/24):

flights 1101, 390 - ontime
flights 374, 234, 332, 188 - cancelled for lack of crew(per usairways.com)
flights 366, 1279 - cancelled with no reason given(on usairways.com)

Thanks, USAirways, for stranding my parents who were trying to get to PHL to visit their son for Christmas. Now they can drive the PA turnpike on Christmas day. At least the traffic will be light.

Thanks, USAirways, for listening to all the signs that there would be sick-outs through the holidays and planning for them.



With the weather bad in many areas, it could actually be a lack of crew. The available crews (and aircrafts) could be stranded in Cincinnati or Indianapolis or some other midwestern airport that is still chaos after the snowstorm.

Case in point, this morning Cincinnati was still not operating because it was so cold that planes were basically stuck to the runway.

With displaced crews, I can imagine that it wasn't jus US Airways who was experiencing chaos. Trying being stuck in CVG for 4 days without any impending options on actually getting home.

I don't think you can totally blame the airline or the employees on this one. This could just be a side effect of a major uncommon midwestern snowstorm.

Some of it is to blame and some of it is not. Like I said UA had many sick outs yesterday as well. And yes there were many FA's and pilots stranded as well because there was no aircraft for them to get on and they could not connect.

I talked to my FA friend again today and she had talked to some of her co-workers who were trying to get to work yesterday but could not. Many people are based out of PHL but they live in different locations like upstate NYC or in the mid west and they commute to work and could not get to PHL because there was no aircraft in their originating destination because other crews had manditory rest time they had to follow. Looks like there was alot of domino effect yesterday as well.

I just got off the phone with reservations just now and made sure everything was still fine for my flight tomorrow. She told me to make sure to get to the airport EXTRA early because the next few days US is packed. She said there are no open seats on almost any flight especially going to the carib.
She said the next few days is going to be a real mess. She was telling me that she has even tried to rebook many people on other airlines with no luck. Everyone flights are full.

Anyone who is normally bump happy, this would not be the time to do it unless you like being stuck at the airport.

Here what is posted in the UA thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383326&page=2&pp=40

70 Flights cancelled yesterday due to sick outs.

I'm just wondering why people would gamble with their holiday travel by flying US? Ok, I can understand if US was the ONLY option to your destination, but not if you have other choices.

I had to fly my dad from CVG-PIT yesterday and return him to CVG tomorrow. I wasnt untrusting of US but since they didnt had non-stops booked him on Delta aka Comair. Take a look at what was happening there and still is. They are shut down. Totally shut down. Yesterday only delayed about 8 hours and I couldnt get any information for hours. US at PIT seemed to be in a lot better shape than Delta. Since his flight from PIT tomorrow was cancelled on Comair I bought him a one way ticket on US. Thank god for the CP line. They came through again.

I had to fly my dad from CVG-PIT yesterday and return him to CVG tomorrow. I wasnt untrusting of US but since they didnt had non-stops booked him on Delta aka Comair. Take a look at what was happening there and still is. They are shut down. Totally shut down. Yesterday only delayed about 8 hours and I couldnt get any information for hours. US at PIT seemed to be in a lot better shape than Delta. Since his flight from PIT tomorrow was cancelled on Comair I bought him a one way ticket on US. Thank god for the CP line. They came through again.

DL has been quite the incompetent carrier today. Can't get through on any of the phone lines to make normal types of same day flight changes. I guess those 30,000 pax who trusted that DL would get them to their destinations for the holiday needed a little help.

You would think it never snowed more than a few inches in the mid west or Ohio Valley. To say the system was "overwhelmed" by the weather sounds fishy. My pc works when it snows outside.....

..

According to an employee over on US Aviation, US had ~11,000 misdirected/missing bags as of 10pm on 12/24. Makes for a great Christmas for passengers :confused:

Kudwa says the problem is because of flights canceled due to the weather and regulations that mandate rest periods for flight crews.


Since you highlighted/colored this sentence, I assume you are implying that weather caused all the problems.

And yet, you also posted:

US AIRWAYS SPECIAL BULLETIN REGARDING HOLIDAY TRAVEL
We sincerely apologize for the operational disruptions that have impacted holiday travel. Our efforts to recover from the severe weather on Thursday were complicated when some of our employees chose to call in sick at record numbers over the weekend.

When the FAA issues a traffic stop for PHL "FOR USAIRWAYS ONLY" I don't think it's the weather.

Is this enough to push them into liquidation? tls

Is this enough to push them into liquidation? tls

Well--IMHO--I am just amazed that they put up on their web site a message for the whole world to read that basically says that either

----- their employees are either willing to use the airline's pax as a hostage to get the airline to cave into demands or

----- that the employees pretty much just don't care anymore.

Neither choice gives the traveling public much incentive to stick with US, especially those who missed the holidays with families...

..

I was a tad impressed with their web site message since it did not try to spin the whole thing off on weather, etc. Although maybe they had no choice since there were rampant media reports about sick outs.

However, I still don't think any of the majors do good damage control. Why not dress Bruce Lakefield like Santa, and have him report from PHL, and give all the distressed pax an RTFC, $350 voucher, or the like. It seems they don't have too much to lose at this point and this kind of thing could at least generate some goodwill. Wasn't there a case in the .com boomb when some major toy store could not ship gifts quickly enough, and they gave away millions of dollars in toy store vouchers to appease the parents, etc?

If you have a 1-2 time a year flyer or a once evrey 3 years flyer and they encounter the sort of difficulties that have been documented here, they might vow never to fly US again. Ironically the seasoned jaded traveler is probably more used to this, and perhaps even more forgiving, and they wouldn't say for example take the last flight of the night that might get them home to gramma's for Xmas, and they would realize that with the weather and other factors something like this might happen and leave earlier, etc.

If they did some outrageous or flamboyant thing maybe they could recover and get some good spin, but I don't think posting a little note on the web is enough. Maybe they should hire Richard Bransen as a consultant to think of some publicity stunt to try to appease the distressed pax and to put a good spin on the company.

Maybe Bruce could auction off some grand prizes of a Disney trip at PHL.

I don't doubt either that other carriers had disruptions, look at Com Air.

I'll be flying around the system through the end of the year (20K bonus) so we'll see how it goes, and I won't check any bags :), and I'll hope for bumps.

Also I have family who lives in other parts of the world and as the years go by we don't all get together for Xmas (as much as before), so it happens, and people largely sshould be able to get over it, and thereby they have a Xmas 2004 adventure they can tell their kids stories about or whatever. Hopefully they kept the bars open on the concourses :).

Why not dress Bruce Lakefield like Santa, and have him report from PHL, and give all the distressed pax an RTFC, $350 voucher, or the like.A sure recipe for chaos (e.g., riot) would be to have someone show up in PHL and claim to be "in charge."

It is the people not the facility. This could have happened in PIT, and may have for all we know, except that so few people O&D from it that it doesn't really matter.
The people are the facility. They go hand and hand.

I flew STT-PHL today and my 767 flight was cancelled - fortunately they run two flights on Saturdays so I was rebooked on the earlier 757 delayed flight (which went out really empty, despite two flights being consolidated, likely a northbound issue) - baggage came out within 30 minutes - which was surprisingly quick. Looks like I dodged a bullet, because the delayed 757 flight was basically at the same time as my cancelled flight.

The F/A announced that the staff shortages were due to diversions and weather earlier in the week - basically implying this was not a sick out.

I dunno. I'm flying back to SEA on AA tomorrow so no more US in PHL adventures for me.

I flew STT-PHL today and my 767 flight was cancelled - fortunately they run two flights on Saturdays so I was rebooked on the earlier 757 delayed flight (which went out really empty, despite two flights being consolidated, likely a northbound issue)

The F/A announced that the staff shortages were due to diversions and weather earlier in the week - basically implying this was not a sick out.


Maybe you were on one of those "baggage only" transports they are running to get caught up and they managed to scrounge up a couple of f/a's so that a few pax could go along for the ride....

..

According to an employee over on US Aviation, US had ~11,000 misdirected/missing bags as of 10pm on 12/24. Makes for a great Christmas for passengers :confused:

I just saw a story on our local 11PM news on the PHL situation...

There were bags all the way out to the checkin area (looked like the one in B/C). I don't think anyone could walk in to checkin if they wanted.

There is no excuse for this. I'm going to be very interested to see what spin management puts on this in the coming days. As others have noted, those who did not show up should be fired and replaced with people who want to work. There's too much at stake for these jerks to take it upon themselves and screw it up.

It is looking that weather is the main reason for crews not showing up the last couple of days... nothing US can do about the weather. The baggage issue is another however.

US Air= a mess, unfortunately!

In RDU at 6 pm on Christmas Eve, there was one person working in the US baggage claim office. The door was kept closed with a note "one person at a time". The queue was about 20 people deep and appeared to be moving at the rate of one person every 10 minutes. You do the math.

PIT did not seem to be a problem - I was actually surprised how calm everything seemed - I expected crowds/chaos, etc.


More stunning irony. This would not (and did not) happen to this extent at PIT and CLT.

PHL: even when its good...ITS BAD. I avoid PHL like the plague on normal days. I can only imagine what it was like yesterday.

Well I guess the only silver lining in the PR department for US in all this is that Comair, the Delta Express unit (I believe a wholly-owned subsidiary of Delta now) managed to lose its whole computer system and cancel at least ten times as many flights as US did Friday, stranding at least 30,000 and no doubt nuking tons of mainline connections as well. Apparently Comair's not flying again until Monday. This is pushing some of the media coverage of the US baggage issues down lower in the "travel woes" articles.

Now, with lots of travel for myself coming up, and probably some snow to throw in the mix in the next 6-8 weeks, I wonder how US's PHL ops will top the Comair incident? :confused:

Seriously though, I really feel for those people affected by this.

I think several issues probably came into play on Friday, all of which conspired to create a mess across the system. I'm not saying that the union employees aren't responsible for it, but it sounds like it wasn't all their fault either.

1. We all know that PHL was never built to be what Pittsburgh was, namely, the massive east-west, north-south hub. PHL works great as a O & D hub, with a few connections, but as an omni-hub, PHL simply lacks the infrastructure that PIT had, thus you end up with more lost bags (PIT had a state of the art baggage system), delays due to the lanes being blocked between concourses (in some cases they're too narrow for planes to pass through), and fewer gates (US had like 57 or so mainline plus like 20 dedicated Express gates in PIT). Thus, one one of the biggest travel days of the year, it ain't surprising that PHL ops went to he**.

2. The Ohio River Valley Storm affected three of the big midwest hubs, CLE, CVG, and DTW. As a result, I'm guessing that a fair number of these passengers may have been put onto US flights, increasing the strain on PHL's already stressed infrastructure. In addition, it probably made it difficult for crew members commuting to PHL, especially those that work for the Express operations, from the areas that were hit by the storm impossible because of both the snow and the fact that the backlogged passengers sucked up all of the seats into PHL and the rest of the US system.

3. FAA Time Regulations probably made it very difficult for many US pilots and crews to work. Not much that can be done here except to bring back more pilots and crews.

4. The sick action, in addition to the above, just made everything worse due to the fact that US was already running short of crews because of #3. This is inexcusable on Christmas Eve and I think these workers should be disciplined.

Finally, to the person who said that the workers should work out an agreement with US like it used to be done should be reminded that management has basically been using BK courts as a convenient way to impose new work rules and wages on the employees without much negotiation. The corporate management hasn't exactly been acting in good faith of late either and they share some of the blame with the employees.

This is all so awful!!! :( Just saw a report on FOX--totally castigating. It's so unfair to see such a fine airline made to look so bad. It is really important all US Airways fans stand by U during these difficult and trying times.

Living in the PHL area, we watch the news about the travel SNAFU at PHL this Christmas holiday. The salient points that one discerns from listening carefully to several news sources or reading the papers is that ALL airlines at PHL experience weather-related delays and cancellations. Not-so-surprising is that US, a PHL hub airline, is especially affected by the weather.

It also seems that PHL baggage handlers call out sick in large numbers on this holiday day, and this, combined with PHL's already shakey baggage system creates a worse than usual baggage situation.

So in waltz the local TV stations with cameras rolling who emphasize upset pax and the baggage end of the story because the rows of bags lined up in baggage claim is the best visual that they have to tell their story. In the usual 30 second soundbye manner which is so typical of TV these days, reporters' analysis is weak and nebulous and passing or no reference is made to flight crews and FAA regulations which is also a contributing factor.

Now I empathize with the pax because how else is one suppossed to feel when their travel plans are disrupted at Christmas? But perspective counts and as GSP Flyer mentions in his post, most of the problem is weather-related. Additionally, Galley Wench mentions very early in this thread that there is not an inordinate amount of FAs calling in sick that day.

In truth, US takes it on the chin because of weather-related delays combined with truculant baggage handlers in PHL. So the real story is that most US employees do their job to the best of their ability while a handful of jerks call out sick and make a bad situation worse.

Barry

Since you highlighted/colored this sentence, I assume you are implying that weather caused all the problems.

And yet, you also posted:

US AIRWAYS SPECIAL BULLETIN REGARDING HOLIDAY TRAVEL
We sincerely apologize for the operational disruptions that have impacted holiday travel. Our efforts to recover from the severe weather on Thursday were complicated when some of our employees chose to call in sick at record numbers over the weekend.

When the FAA issues a traffic stop for PHL "FOR USAIRWAYS ONLY" I don't think it's the weather.

NO CP Rich. I highlighted the sentence because I could not believe what I was reading.

Does anyone know how things have sorted themselves out thus far? Those of us who have flights this afternoon (direct to DCA) are trying to figure out whether or not we should expect total hell, or whether things have smoothed themselves out...

I very much want to believe that this is just a horrible coincidence with the weather, end-of-year and end-of-month FAA regs on flight time maximums for flight attendants, and just a higher than average number of people who genuinely were sick calling out. I hope for US' sake that's the truth, because if this really was an organized action by anyone, it sure does not give a lot of confidence to the airline.

I also hope that US sent a big Christmas card to Comair, whose own (unfortunate) disaster at least took some of the press off of US. Hopefully they can sort their own things out soon too.

Find it really interesting that the airlines having all the major, major, problems this holiday season are the ones in the most financial and employee relations trouble.

Seems to be running smoothly at CO,AA,NW

Planned chaos or not something is fishy

Find it really interesting that the airlines having all the major, major, problems this holiday season are the ones in the most financial and employee relations trouble.

Seems to be running smoothly at CO,AA,NW

Planned chaos or not something is fishy

Agreed, unofficial or official, its definitely fishy. Apparently 222 sickouts isn't too many, but people can be at work and still cause issues.

Waaaay fishy. I've told airdiva to be on standby to burn miles real quick if need be.

-JC

Seems like the striking employees will get what they want - put a fork in this turkey its dead.

I assume the union will help them get unemployment.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10500999.htm

The union employees are making thier money while they can -- tips ... :-)

By Robert Moran

Inquirer Staff Writer

Francisco Rojas desperately wanted to attend his mother's funeral in the Dominican Republic this week.

But yesterday, like hundreds of others, he found himself at Philadelphia International Airport, wondering what to do about his canceled U.S. Airways flight and his family's six missing pieces of luggage.

With no hope of flying out of Philadelphia, he spent more than $1,000 to book a flight on another airline out of New York. His son was driving from their home in Passaic, N.J., to pick up Rojas, his wife and his sister and take them to Kennedy International Airport.

But Rojas, 49, who had flown out of LaGuardia Airport to make connections in Philadelphia, faced a dilemma: What if U.S. Airways couldn't find his luggage before his son arrived?

"I can't wait another day, but I don't know if I can leave without my luggage," said Rojas, standing amid rows of unclaimed suitcases and duffels.

There were many more tales like his yesterday as US Airways continued, for a third day, to struggle with canceled flights and lost baggage.

Many travelers fumed at the beleaguered airline. Never again, they vowed. But first they had to find their bags.

"I just gave a baggage handler 100 bucks," said Peter Haber, 44, of central New Jersey.

Haber said he had offered the incentive, believing that it might increase his chances of finding his bags. It was on top of $20 he'd given another handler earlier, he said.

Haber and his wife, Lisa, 36, who is seven months pregnant, were planning to fly to San Juan, Puerto Rico, to celebrate their one-year anniversary and to enjoy one last vacation before the baby comes.

Now the trip was history.

"We're done. We're finished. We just want our bags," Haber said.

In Terminal B, the Mother of All Airport Lines snaked back and forth in front of the bank of U.S. Airways counters, stretching nearly the length of the sprawling terminal.

At one point yesterday, Cliff Oberholtzer, 46, of Mount Laurel, was the last person in a hundreds-long line dedicated to people whose flights had been canceled.

Oberholtzer and his wife, Gwen, had been scheduled to fly to Miami for a cruise that was to leave today. They checked their bags two hours before the 1:05 p.m. flight, but by the time they got to the gate, it had been canceled.

"If they hadn't taken my bags, I would have just put them in my car and driven" to Florida, Oberholtzer said. "Now they have my bags hostage."

Had he paid any employees for help in locating his luggage?

"I wouldn't say that - out loud," he replied with a brief smile. Then his sense of doom returned. "In less than 24 hours, the boat takes off."

For some, there was good news.

Regina McDonough, 56, of Jacksonville, Fla., had come to Philadelphia to visit her family for Christmas. She arrived Friday evening dressed in a red Santa outfit and a furry Eagles cap. But her luggage was nowhere to be found.

"I'm going to have to dress like this all week," she complained as she waited in a line for people whose luggage was missing.

Then suddenly she spotted her suitcase nearby and shrieked with joy.

"Merry Christmas, everybody!" she told the people still in line. "Have faith. I found it. You'll find yours."

This is all really sAD

It also reminds me why I NEVER put anything in checked luggage that I cant temporarily live without. Actually, I DONT check but I remind my kids of the above ;)

I haven't checked baggage in about 7 years. Even for my international flights, I always send baggage via either UPS or Fedex (yes, it costs a lot, but for me, the peace of mind is worth it). Always waiting for me at my hotels or with family or friends who I've sent to. Or, just pack everything I can onto my carry-on.

I don't buy off on the baggage problem.
Mom and I were to fly Zurich/Munich/PHL/Fort Myers, FL on 12/18 Eurowings/US Air

1st leg late takeoff due to eqt change, TransAtlantic leg late due to high winds. Arrived to PHL 40 min late and had to wait 47 Minutes for the bags to come out to pass thru customs and be rechecked. Of course to only bagage carts were in the paid racks and of course they were all out of order. All the folks from Europe were confused as they are free in their homeland (which they should be here for the 100foot shlep thru customs.)
Got to the a-f security checkpoint and watched as the TSA shut down all but 1 machine and 3-4 agents for about 600 people from multiple flights.
Of course by the time through security we missed our flight and had to then go PHL/Charlotte/Fort Myers, arriving 3 hours late.

On arrival to RSW no one from the Munich flight (25 of us) had no baggage. We were told that this is an EVERYDAY problem as customs tells the baggage guys not to unload many planes at once to no clog up customs.
After all the problems, I will choose to not connect intl through PHL again. The distance to be travelled, the lack of handicapped assistance and the security screening problems are unexcusable.
US Air did deliver our bags to the house the next day, everything intact.
I don't blame the airline, but think that this might be the nail in the coffin as far as PR is concerned.

JudyJFLA

Anyone flying through PHL (or any other station) see a visible presence from management? I truly hope that every available Manager and exec was working this weekend to improve situation for the airline and its passengers.

I wonder how many executives/managers avoided problems that occurred during the holiday weekend and are waiting until Monday to deal with them?

Us airways may fail, but i hope it sets an example that if an airline thinks its going to make employees pay for insurance, no benefits with the exeption of NONrev travel ( which is impossible to use because we are filling seats for 29.00 roundtrip ) and paying employees less now than in 1979 for the same job with twice the duty. (after 911) if i worked there i would shut her down too.

Us airways may fail, but i hope it sets an example that if an airline thinks its going to make employees pay for insurance, no benefits with the exeption of NONrev travel ( which is impossible to use because we are filling seats for 29.00 roundtrip ) and paying employees less now than in 1979 for the same job with twice the duty. (after 911) if i worked there i would shut her down too.

They will pay a wage and offer benefits competative with similar work at other places - enough to get a full and qualified workforce. Just like the other carriers e.g. Southwest and Jetblue.

They will pay a wage and offer benefits competative with similar work at other places - enough to get a full and qualified workforce. Just like the other carriers e.g. Southwest and Jetblue.


Let me get this straight Southwest and Jetblue have similar payscales? Jet blue employees do not even come close to making the same pay/benefits as Southwest. They are both competitive airlines however Jetblue is a newbie and has yet to experience maintenence issues/ C/ D checks etc.....and labor issues. But don't worry the newness will wear off once the planes get old. Oh and how many airlines have started up and survived? anyone have a percentage??

Southwest pays its employees significantly more than their union counter-parts at US Airways presently receive.

They will pay a wage and offer benefits competative with similar work at other places - enough to get a full and qualified workforce. Just like the other carriers e.g. Southwest and Jetblue.

Southwest pays its employees significantly more than their union counter-parts at US Airways presently receive.

Southwest had done a good job of working with unions such that inflexible work rules have not been allowed to squelch the productivity of its workers. Kelliher running around dressed as Elvis might have helped...

Maybe more so was that SW treated employees as people. From an article I read recently--


"...Maybe having a CEO who struts around in a chicken outfit helps too. The new airline began with four planes and fewer than 70 employees. When it ran into financial trouble early on, Southwest was faced with a dilemma - either sell one of its planes or lay off some of its employees. Southwest made the unconventional choice - they sold the plane. In return, the airline requested their employees cut gate turn-arounds down to 15 minutes. The employees obliged, helping establish one of the friendliest management/labor relationships in the airline industry..."

..

My first flight was on Piedmont back in 1969. When I moved to California I started to fly PSA. When USAir bought Piedmont that took away the red/white/blue and painted the planes a brown and maroon. When they PSA, they got rid of the smile painted on the nose and covered it and brown and maroon. The current crew talks about the bad business decisions of USAir but I also remember USAir significantly raising pay. I don't remember anyone turning down those huge increases and calling it a bad business decision.

The most significant bad decision USAir made was having the highest salary scale for a carrier its size. And now some of the same people who benefitted from being overpaid are trying to kill the airline.

I am sure Southwest is going to rush and pay them their old USAir wages. Probably no one will hire them. Yes, they proved their point but at what expense?

It is a bad situation and it is too bad folks aren't pitching in to save their jobs. All the threat of strick has caused people to book flights elsewhere which lowers revenue which makes the cuts deeper. This is not rocket science.

I hate to see the airline go but it seems that the rats are goobling up the ship.

They may have won the battle but have lost the war!

I have lost respect for a lot of the folks in the unions.

Southwest pays its employees significantly more than their union counter-parts at US Airways presently receive.

Let me restate - the pay will be what it takes to get a committed workforce. Each company, in whatever buisiness it is in, pays about that much. We do not need to argue about what the total package of pay and benefits for each airline is - this has been shown to be difficult to discern in many other posts (more pay but less pension, better dental but paid for flight time only vs. total time on plane, or whatever...). Right now if the people decide that the job doesn't pay enough at USAirways they should leave. There is no hope of going back to the old days. Why be nasty and take down what, I think, is the vast majority who want to try to work things out. It is terrible to promise your employer that you will show up to work (by accepting continued employment) and just reneg on that promise - it is worse to do it to your coworkers.

Well--IMHO--I am just amazed that they put up on their web site a message for the whole world to read that basically says that either

----- their employees are either willing to use the airline's pax as a hostage to get the airline to cave into demands or

----- that the employees pretty much just don't care anymore.

Neither choice gives the traveling public much incentive to stick with US, especially those who missed the holidays with families...

..

i can imagine that next week USAirways will have the biggest airfare sale in history
and if i were a competitor, I wouldnt match it
I'd just run an ad showing this weeks chaos and say
"why would you fly this airline at any price?"

Southwest pays its employees significantly more than their union counter-parts at US Airways presently receive.

So you're telling me that all those front-line employees at US Airways who are senior are going to enjoy going from their current $18 at US back to $9-10 at Southwest?

So you're telling me that all those front-line employees at US Airways who are senior are going to enjoy going from their current $18 at US back to $9-10 at Southwest?

I don't know that SW has said that they are looking for employees. If I were SW, I would be very choosy about which former employees of other airlines to hire.

Lots of interviewing would be wise to to make sure you are not hiring a bad attitude masquerading as a job seeker...

..

..

If I was running SW in PHL, I would not hire any baggage handlers from US in PHL. The would be asking for major labor problems.

Not sure if this is in another thread, but Chris Chiames, VP Corporate Affairs was on the NBC Today show this morning. He was asked to comment on what appeared to be an organized f/a and bag handler sick out that caused chaos throughout the system. He said it was not an organized sick out, but just represented certain employees who chose to take the action. I suppose you could consider it a small organized sick out. The interviewer tried to get him to "guarantee" to the American public that similar chaos would not plague the system over the busy New Year's holiday. He said that operations were returning to normal with the exception of snow in areas like BOS today (we have nearly a foot of snow). I don't know how they think he can "guarantee" what the employees will or won't do, or say if there is a massive snow storm over New Years.

In a later segment some sort of national geographic travel editor was interviewed, and he said that he did not see how this latest situation could not spell problems for US with regard to lack of public confidence, but he also stated it was not just US but also noted e.g. Comair. He told viewers that perhaps in a bygone era airlines would "take care of you," but among other tips he told wood be travelers to "prepare for the worse." He said for example they should look at hotels in connecting hubs and know that information in case they misconnect, and he suggested they make irregular operations rebookings over the phone rather than standing in long airport lines. I guess he did as good as he could with 90 seconds of air time, but if it were me, I would have told the wood be travelers about rule 120.20 which probably 99.9 out of 100 people have no idea what that is.

By MICHELINE MAYNARD

Passengers who got caught up in the airlines' troubles over Christmas received a glimpse of what may await them in the coming year.

The winter storms and computer malfunctions, which snarled airport traffic from Philadelphia to Atlanta, may have been unavoidable, experts say. But the signs of labor unrest that cropped up over the weekend could be a harbinger of things to come in an industry already buffeted by bankruptcies and structural change.

With the six big airlines expected to lose another $5.5 billion this year, every one of them - American, United, Delta, Continental, Northwest and US Airways - has announced plans for deeper cuts in 2005. All told, they will reach $7.5 billion in spending and at least 20,000 jobs.

"We really have the tough part ahead of us," said Gerald A. Grinstein, the chief executive at Delta Air Lines, which avoided a bankruptcy filing this fall by persuading pilots to cut their pay by a third.

For passengers, the irreversible retrenchment by the airline industry, which has shrunk by a quarter since the start of the decade, has meant the loss of food service, a reduction in routes, flight delays, lost baggage and other headaches.

But if employees' reactions to these kinds of changes are anything like what US Airways experienced over the weekend, consumers are in for more serious disruptions.

Yesterday, US Airways, which is operating in bankruptcy, canceled 29 flights, on top of 300 cancellations on Friday and Saturday, when unusually high numbers of baggage handlers in Philadelphia and flight attendants elsewhere called in sick. Union officials said the sick calls were not organized.

Comair, a regional carrier for Delta Air Lines, also canceled flights for a second day. The airline canceled all 1,100 of its flights on Saturday after a computer malfunctioned, stranding passengers in cities like Cincinnati and Atlanta. The airline planned to operate just 172 flights yesterday and to return to normal by noon on Wednesday, according to the Air Line Pilots Association.

The situation at US Airways came on top of problems it had experienced for months in the Philadelphia baggage system. It led the airline to make unscheduled flights filled with suitcases from Philadelphia to Charlotte, N.C., for processing before being returned to passengers.

Amy Kudwa, an airline spokeswoman, said yesterday that as part of their compensation, some passengers who were stranded were put up in hotels, while those who did not have their bags would receive at least $50 for the first day and $25 for each day after that.

US Airways is by far the sickest of the major airlines. It filed for its second bankruptcy in two years on Sept. 12. It is demanding deep pay cuts from employees, who have already given two rounds of wage and benefit concessions.

In a memorandum on Dec. 15, US Airways told flight attendants based at airports in Boston, Charlotte, New York and Washington that they would have to fly an additional five hours a month starting in February to make up for staffing shortages. The memo came on the same day that flight attendants reached tentative agreement on a new contract that would cut their pay 9 percent and reduce benefits, including sick and vacation time. Before that agreement, flight attendants threatened to strike the airline if a bankruptcy court set aside their contract and replaced it with more spartan terms. Flight attendants at United Airlines, which also wants to set aside union contracts, have made the same threat.

Officials at the Transportation Department spoke with US Airways management over the weekend and were monitoring the situation yesterday, said Robert Johnson, a department spokesman. "We're in a fact-finding mode," he said, adding that transportation officials would be "deliberate and careful."

The chief executive at US Airways, Bruce R. Lakefield, angrily blamed the "operational meltdown" on the "irresponsible actions of a few."

In a message to employees yesterday, Mr. Lakefield said: "Let us not forget who pays our salaries - our customers - and this weekend did nothing to earn their confidence and their future business."

Don Logan Jr., a US Airways maintenance worker in Philadelphia who took scheduled vacation during the holiday rush, said yesterday that management should have anticipated problems. "Back at Thanksgiving, we were short," he said. "Did they think it was going to go away come Christmas?"

"I don't blame any employee who wants to spend the holiday with their family after what they have been put through this year," Mr. Logan said.

Some US Airways workers are angry that Mr. Lakefield has not taken a pay cut, even though a bankruptcy court judge ordered emergency 21 percent pay cuts for union members. "The extra presents under the tree that my kids didn't get this year, I'll tell him thank you for that," Mr. Logan said.

For some consumers, whose family reunions and hopes for a holiday break were foiled by the problems, this weekend may be the last straw. "I don't think there's a tremendous amount of sympathy," said Gary Chaison, professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. "Consumers are always ready at a moment's notice to jump from one airline to another airline."

Charlton Tarrant, 38, who flew home to Detroit last week on US Airways, agreed. "It's like any industry: survival of the fittest. The strong survive and the weak will get devoured," Mr. Tarrant said. He will have to choose another airline next year if US Airways cannot survive. But, said Mr. Tarrant, "If they're not fit, then they will fold like others before them."

The airlines' unending spiral brings to mind what happened to American auto companies, steel makers and coal miners, whose decline had an indelible effect on parts of the country that still echoes in shuttered plants and vacant mills.

In the case of airlines, though, the situation is different.

Unless they lived in the Rust Belt, or a few other places where Detroit put its plants, most people in the country never met an autoworker or witnessed the industry's decline first hand.

But virtually everyone who flies and every city with an airport feels the airlines' predicament. "It's like the chain on a bicycle. If one link is broken, we aren't going anywhere," said Robert Roach, vice president for transportation at the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

"The airline industry really is an infrastructure industry," added Alfred E. Kahn, the former head of the Civil Aeronautics Board, who oversaw the industry's deregulation under President Carter.

In places like Evansville, Ind., the industry's problems have meant the loss of entire airlines. On Dec. 17, US Airways dropped its daily flights to Charlotte, the airport's only service to the East Coast. Now, passengers headed east must fly on other airlines to Detroit, Memphis or Atlanta, and connect from there.

"It's sad," said Robert Working, 57, manager of the Evansville Regional Airport, speaking by telephone last week as a storm dumped 19 inches of snow on the airport's three runways, complicating an already busy holiday week.

And in the last year, a range of cities, from Boston to St. Louis to Minneapolis and Dallas, have seen airlines cut service, while in the last four years, others have pulled out completely.

Since 2000, the big airlines have eliminated more than 100 cities from their schedules as they sort out where they can afford to fly on the fares consumers will pay, according to an estimate by Back Aviation Solutions, an industry consulting firm.

At least people in Evansville have other options. One-third of the nation's 609 airports offering daily flights are served by just one airline, said Michael Allen, the chief operating officer at Back Aviation.

If one company pulls out and another does not pick up its flights, a chain reaction begins: jobs will be lost, communities will have trouble attracting new companies, employers will not be able to easily send employees where they need to go and real estate prices will fall because the cities and towns have become remote.

"If you don't have a connection to the outside world, you become less valuable," Mr. Allen said.

"It's fine to say, 'Let market forces prevail,' but you can't do that without examining what the consequences are," said Patricia Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants, which has 50,000 members.

Because of wage and benefit cuts, some new flight attendants earn just $12,000, less than they might make at Wal-Mart or as a bank teller. "The flight attendants will always sympathize with the passenger. But they won't always sympathize with the company," said John McCorkle, a US Airways flight attendant who writes an industry newsletter.

Airlines are hoping for a reprieve in the form of lower prices for jet fuel, which rose 74 percent this year, to more than $1.50 a gallon. That could give them an opportunity to be profitable again after losing $30 billion in the last five years.

Even so, profits will not restore the jobs the companies are eliminating; bring back the traditional pension plans that are being dropped; or do away with the cost-cutting that has been announced.

And as JetBlue, Southwest and other low-fare airlines keep a lid on prices, the big airlines cannot raise fares substantially to give themselves a cushion as they once might have done.

Mr. Grinstein of Delta said, "If we are waiting for some miracle to occur, we are wasting our time and we'd be better off saving our breath."

In Evansville, Mr. Working said he thought the big airlines were "finally learning how to compete" - a step he thought was long overdue. Yet, he admits he wishes things were different.

"To be honest, I wonder if deregulation was good. You used to dress up and everyone acted real nice to you and it was fun to fly," Mr. Working said. "Now it isn't nice, you only get pretzels and all the other service is gone."

I would have told the wood be travelers about rule 120.20 which probably 99.9 out of 100 people have no idea what that is.

Well, then enlighten us! I know about rule 240, which is basically a renumeration policy each airline has to have for denied boardings(voluntary/involuntary), cancelled flights, etc. It vareis from airline to airline, but the regs require them to have *something* in place to compensate pax for missed flights(non-weather). What is 120.20?

So I’m supposed to believe that a combination of bad weather and a lack of flights formed the “perfect storm” that coincidentally caused a massive sick-out – right…..

How many more people like me are out there that were planning US trips for UA credit and just changed our minds after this weekend? It may be a bigger number than UA & their unions think. Personally I think it was more apathy and not caring vs. a carefully designed labor walk out.

OT perhaps (b/c not discussed in this forum), but for those FTers who consider it selfish and unsafe to carry-on a rollaboard:

This thread is your answer.

Well, then enlighten us! I know about rule 240, which is basically a renumeration policy each airline has to have for denied boardings(voluntary/involuntary), cancelled flights, etc. It vareis from airline to airline, but the regs require them to have *something* in place to compensate pax for missed flights(non-weather). What is 120.20?

It has always been my belief that Rule 240 = FAR 120.20

It has always been my belief that Rule 240 = FAR 120.20

Well, there is no FAR part 120. Only 119 and 121. And, within those two parts, there is no subsection .20. So, perhaps something else....

120.20 is the agreement among legacy carriers to accept one another's passengers in irregular operations at a pre-defined price (some percentage of full fare I believe).

Right, that is what 120.20 is. But I thought the agreement was that the receiving airline got the face value of the ticket, not a percentage of full Y as in a FIM? However, I am not sure of this so clarrification?

Well, there is no FAR part 120. Only 119 and 121. And, within those two parts, there is no subsection .20. So, perhaps something else....

I read that somewhere less authoritative and didn't bother to check it. To apologize, how about this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2919315&postcount=12)? Apparently ATA = Rule 120.20 and IATA = Rule 240.