American Express Membership Rewards - "Amex machine broken but Visa machine works"

I'm witnessing a pattern of restaurants in France refusing to accept Amex, despite the Amex sticker in the window. Sometimes the excuse is "The credit card machine is broken"; other times it's "That Amex sticker in the window is from the previous owner," which is harder to contest.

Last night's experience cracked me up though: Not only was the Amex sticker on the front door, but the bill arrived in a leather "Amex cards are Welcome" folio. When the waiter saw my card and stated that the "Amex machine is broken but that the Visa machine works," I became quite suspicious.

So suddenly I "couldn't find" any cash nor other credit cards in my handbag, nor mysteriously, could my friend. I told the waiter that it's marked very clearly on the front door and on the bill folio that Amex is accepted. He wouldn't budge, so I offered (in as untrustworthy a voice as I could) to write an IOU and return the following week to pay, you know, if I'm still in town...

Suddenly, surprise surprise, the Amex machine started working again!

I've had this happen to me several times. I usually point out that there actually is a way to manually charge a credit card by filling out the corresponding form and calling AmEx for authorization. If the waiter refuses, I take out a business card, tell them to send me an invoice per mail and get ready to leave. In most cases this has led to a marvelous self-healing of the broken machine...

Regards,
Stefan

P. S.: A waiter once even told me to use my AmEx card to get cash from a nearby ATM. I replied that he had to credit me the fee then. Abracadabra, machine works again...

...I usually point out that there actually is a way to manually charge a credit card by filling out the corresponding form and calling AmEx for authorization...

I hadn't thought of that, that's a really good idea ! ^

I also like your "send me an invoice" approach. Ha ha. I'll have to try that one with my business card that has a foreign address.

I got the same "the machine that takes AMEX is not working" here in austin the other day at a shipping outlet. So I just said bill me, and they are.

I have encountered this in US in the last couple of months. I have thought of reporting the restaurants to AMEX and then decided against it.

In future, they may not get my business.

Something similar happened to me at an Afghan kabob restaurant in Northern Virginia not too long ago. I whipped out my Amex to pay for lunch (less than $10) and the guy behind the counter said "are you sure you don't want to use a Visa? American Express is always really slow."

I imagine he just didn't want to pay the higher Amex merchant fees, but I did end up giving him my Visa card since I felt like a good sport and didn't want to push the issue any further. 10 MR or Starwood points wasn't worth the hassle.

Yeah, clearly the restaurants in France want to avoid paying the higher merchant fees. The problem seems so widespread here however, that I've started maintaining a list of the offenders and corresponding incident dates which I will forward to Amex every few months. The way I see it, if Amex isn't aware of these problems, they will never get addressed.

I agree though that it's not worth forcing the issue for under 15 euros (which is a common cc minimum here).

... for under 15 euros (which is a common cc minimum here).Which is yet another breach of the merchant agreement, isn't it?

I find that merchants in continental Europe are quite forthright in telling customers that Amex is not welcome, but they will accept it if they have to. I have had merchants take my Amex, swipe it, realise what they had done and then put through a refund before telling me that they didn't accept Amex. :(

I find it quite irritating but I only really make a fuss if it is a fairly large charge which nets me a fair amount of cashback. For smaller charges, I prefer to use Visa and avoid the confrontation.

Which is yet another breach of the merchant agreement, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes.
I experience a not under $10 (no card, not just amex) restaurant recently also. Is there a good way to report them?

I experience a not under $10 (no card, not just amex) restaurant recently also. Is there a good way to report them?

I had trouble at a drycleaner when Itried to pay a small charge (maybe 8 dollars) with a credit card. I printed out the statement from the website stating they were not allowed to do this and asked it to be forwarded to the owner.

Soon afterwards, they removed the minimum.

I also mention that it is against the agreement if someone states there is a minimum.

Something similar happened to me at an Afghan kabob restaurant in Northern Virginia not too long ago. I whipped out my Amex to pay for lunch (less than $10) and the guy behind the counter said "are you sure you don't want to use a Visa? American Express is always really slow."



I have had a merchant tell me the reason they do not accept AMEX is that AMEX takes a long time to pay them. They do accept MC and Visa, but no AMEX. So maybe there is something to it? Who knows?

I have had this happen as well, not just with Amex, but with other credit cards, where the merchant (often a restaurant) state they cannot accept credit cards because their terminal is broken.

Fishy, but sometimes you have no choice. Next time, I will ask for an invoice!

What a coincidence that I read this thread the day after I had a local merchant here in the Philadelphia suburbs tell me that their AMEX is down. Hmmm... they are an idine partner, and I had my AMEX blue set to snag some miles on CO. Instead, I used a visa that gave me miles on DL. Oh well.. but, this is something to watch over.

I have had a merchant tell me the reason they do not accept AMEX is that AMEX takes a long time to pay them. They do accept MC and Visa, but no AMEX. So maybe there is something to it? Who knows?Well, if a merchant decides not to accept AMEX or credit cards in general, that's his business decision and that's absolutely fine with me. However, if he puts up an AMEX/MC/VISA etc. sticker on the door to lure in customers and then doesn't accept the card afterwards or tries some sneaky games like "the machine's not working" and similar BS, that's a whole different story! :mad:

andy

A few quotes the "TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR AMERICAN EXPRESS CARD ACCEPTANCE" that all AMEX establishments must sign.

"When a customer asks what payment methods you accept, you agree to mention the American Express Card."

"When a Cardmember makes or requests to make a purchase with the Card, you agree not to: (i) try, in any way, to persuade the
Cardmember to use any other payment method; (ii) offer to extend credit or charge services to the Cardmember for that
transaction through your own or any other charge, credit, debit, or smart cards or similar card or service; (iii) criticize or
mischaracterize the Card or any service or programs offered in connection with the Card; or, (iv) impose any restrictions
or conditions on the use or acceptance of the Card that are not imposed equally on the use or acceptance of any other
charge, credit, debit or similar card or service. You agree not to display, state, publish or otherwise exhibit a preference
for any other charge, credit, debit or smart cards or similar card or service over the Card. Except for special promotions of
limited duration funded by an issuer of another charge, credit or debit card, and subject to your compliance with the
immediately preceding sentence, you agree not to promote the use of any other charge, credit, debit or smart cards or
similar card or service (except for your own card which is issued solely by you and is usable only at your Locations),
more actively than you promote the use of the Card."

As far as taking to long:
"American Express will initiate
payment to your Account via ACH within three (3) calendar days (excluding Sunday and any Federal Reserve holiday)
after we receive and process your Charges (Basic Payment Plan)."

DO NOT LET PLACES GET AWAY WITH SCAMING US AND AMEX

Also,

"Upon termination, you must: 1) remove all American Express identification and return our materials and equipment
immediately;"

I have had a merchant tell me the reason they do not accept AMEX is that AMEX takes a long time to pay them.

I think it is because Amex/Diners charges them a much higher merchant fee than Visa/Master Card.

I think it is because Amex/Diners charges them a much higher merchant fee than Visa/Master Card.

Is that really the only reason? .
Does AMEX pay the merchants slower than VISA/MC?
Other reasons?

I find this problem more rampant in continental Europe, not so much in the UK as the places I go to almost always take AMEX there.

Europeans in general from my observation don't use credit cards that often, especially not for small purchases like lunch. In an small pub in Scotland, I was instantly outed as "a lad from across the pond" by the use of my AMEX card (no hassle there) . The barmaid remarked that the last person to use the Amex machine was also from the USA.

I find that less of a problem here in NY, though one beloved eatery, off the beaten path on the East side takes only Visa and MC and does not display the Amex logo out front or use Amex binders. I know the owner well enough to write a check.

Upon asking him why he doesn't take AMEX, he told me it's because he would to get a different machine or upgrade his machine lease which doesn't expire until next year.

I suppose at the end of the day it all boils down to the bottom line.

Is that really the only reason? .
Does AMEX pay the merchants slower than VISA/MC?
Other reasons?

I find this problem more rampant in continental Europe, not so much in the UK as the places I go to almost always take AMEX there.

Europeans in general from my observation don't use credit cards that often, especially not for small purchases like lunch. In an small pub in Scotland, I was instantly outed as "a lad from across the pond" by the use of my AMEX card (no hassle there) . The barmaid remarked that the last person to use the Amex machine was also from the USA.

I find that less of a problem here in NY, though one beloved eatery, off the beaten path on the East side takes only Visa and MC and does not display the Amex logo out front or use Amex binders. I know the owner well enough to write a check.

Upon asking him why he doesn't take AMEX, he told me it's because he would to get a different machine or upgrade his machine lease which doesn't expire until next year.

I suppose at the end of the day it all boils down to the bottom line.

I believe the reason stated was that Amex charges more. If a merchant signs up with Amex, hey're obligated to take the card. They're not obligated to sign up.

I think it is because Amex/Diners charges them a much higher merchant fee than Visa/Master Card.

True in Asia, where I've seen Amex merchant fees at 2.5% while the Visa merchant fee was 0.59%.

Which is yet another breach of the merchant agreement, isn't it?
I think technically, in the US at least, AmEx's policy is that merchants cannot set a higher minimum for AmEx than for other cards. Visa and MC's policies say merchants cannot set a minimum charge, so, by deduction, you can't with AmEx either. But last I heard, there wasn't a straight out ban on it from AmEx.

I've never had anyone try to pull it with me after eating; usually it's before I've consumed any goods/services that they try the switch. Usually when they pull something I cancel the transaction immediately, inform them why, take a business card (if they have one on the counter) and inform them I'll be reporting them to AmEx -- which I do immediately.

I don't like being played. They lure me in with the AmEx sign, then try to bait and switch? Nope.

If merchants don't want to deal with AmEx for whatever reason, that's fine. But agreeing to AmEx's terms and then advertising to the public that you accept the card, but then not accepting it is dishonest.

I think technically, in the US at least, AmEx's policy is that merchants cannot set a higher minimum for AmEx than for other cards. Visa and MC's policies say merchants cannot set a minimum charge, so, by deduction, you can't with AmEx either. But last I heard, there wasn't a straight out ban on it from AmEx.
Hmmm...I wonder if this is case in France as well for the AF Amex ?


"Upon termination, you must: 1) remove all American Express identification and return our materials and equipment immediately;"
Good to know. This would definitely help me circumvent the "stickers belong to the previous owner" excuse.

I think technically, in the US at least, AmEx's policy is that merchants cannot set a higher minimum for AmEx than for other cards. Visa and MC's policies say merchants cannot set a minimum charge, so, by deduction, you can't with AmEx either. But last I heard, there wasn't a straight out ban on it from AmEx.

So if a merchant sets a minimum for all credit card use (Visa, MC, and AMEX etc...) is that allowed under these conditions?

So if a merchant sets a minimum for all credit card use (Visa, MC, and AMEX etc...) is that allowed under these conditions?

Well, since Visa and Mastercard prohibit minimum purchase requirements, then a merchant who accepts all three cards would be unable to have a minimum purchase requirement and be in compliance with ALL of the card types' merchant regulations.

So if a merchant sets a minimum for all credit card use (Visa, MC, and AMEX etc...) is that allowed under these conditions?
Yes, it would be fine from AmEx's perspective, but you'd have a complaint with Visa/MC.

I read this thread...and then did some research and found out that yes, visa/mc do infact state in their merchant agreement (i actually process cards myself....i never actually read the whole agreement tho) that if you accept their cards, you cannot put a minimum or maximum to the amount someone can use their card for....

I was thinking...doesn't this mean that car dealerships have been in violation? I've heard a lot of people on here talk about how their dealer would only let them put X amount of a car on their card....perhaps next time that happens you could show them a copy of the merchant agreement? just an idea.

I searched the Visa site and found a pdf file where, on the 15th page (labelled page 10 on the document), it clearly states that Visa does not allow min or max amount on charges.

http://www.usa.visa.com/download/business/accepting_visa/ops_risk_management/card_accept.pdf?it=r4|/business/accepting_visa/ops_risk_management/index%2Ehtml|Card%20Acceptance%20%26%20Chargeback% 20Cycle%20Management%20Guide

I read this thread...and then did some research and found out that yes, visa/mc do infact state in their merchant agreement (i actually process cards myself....i never actually read the whole agreement tho) that if you accept their cards, you cannot put a minimum or maximum to the amount someone can use their card for....

I was thinking...doesn't this mean that car dealerships have been in violation? I've heard a lot of people on here talk about how their dealer would only let them put X amount of a car on their card....perhaps next time that happens you could show them a copy of the merchant agreement? just an idea.

Probably true - but since when have car dealers ever really followed rules. I suppose you could push the point with the maximum charge, but you'd probably "accidentally" get MVID, a couple layers of undercoating, pin striping, etc. Of course you *could* wait for the next car in - but that might be a couple of months.