Southwest Rapid Rewards - Market For Unused Funds?

I am surprised that there is not a larger market for unused Southwest travel funds. The airline has the wonderful policy of allowing funds to be transferred without penalty to another traveller. I can't think of another airline that allows this.

Suppose a frequent traveller has $400 of unused travel funds that are nearing the one-year expiration and he either has no trips planned or has plenty of Rapid Reward certificates. He would be much better off getting 80% of those funds ($320 cash) than letting his $400 expire. The traveller who would otherwise pay $400 would much rather pay $320.

An efficient, if underworld, market has long existed for Southwest Rapid Reward Certificates. There are buyers who will accept them with only 2 months remaining until expiration, so that same buyer should be willing to pay $320 for $400 of unused funds with two months remaining until expiration.

Any ideas as to why this market, which seems to be within Southwest's rules, has never materialized. Or maybe it exists and I don't know about it. Maybe I overestimate the amount of unused Southwest funds that expire unused, but with business purchases of trips that are later cancelled, I bet it is significant.

There is a market (although obviously just a fraction of that for Rapid Rewards certs), see http://search-completed.ebay.com/southwest-credit_W0QQamp;sspagenameZhQ3ahQ3aadvsearchQ3aUSQQ catrefZC6QQfromZR7QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsacategoryZQ 2d1QQsocolumnlayoutZ3QQsofocusZbsQQsoitemstatusZ2Q QsorecordsperpageZ50QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropert yZ1

Any ideas as to why this market, which seems to be within Southwest's rules, has never materialized. Or maybe it exists and I don't know about it.

The latter. Search ebay for Southwest credit. I don't buy these because I buy my tickets way ahead and dealing with early expiration is a PITA. Also, if you ever get a refund it goes back to the seller!

I would be happy to trade for SWA credit anytime. I look to buy this all the time and use it to pay for all my travel hardly ever buying tickets with my Visa card. Of course now that SW is offering double credit for Visa purchases, I am buying those tickets with my Visa.
Happy holidays,
Airjonethan

Why sell them? If you fly frequently enough, you will find out that Southwest credit $$$s (even expired) are fully refundable. I've cleaned up about 10 unused confirmation codes (some of which had expired) and had them refunded back to my credit card in the past several months. [another unwritten benefit for CP holders]

Ditto on nsx's comment - you would have to be really naive to buy credit $$$ from a stranger. There are far too many ways that the seller can take the $$$ back. Find relatives/friends with open credit $$$ and take them off their hands.

Ditto on nsx's comment - you would have to be really naive to buy credit $$$ from a stranger. There are far too many ways that the seller can take the $$$ back. Find relatives/friends with open credit $$$ and take them off their hands.

Don't get your point. Unless the seller knows the new pnr, the funds should be secured by the buyer.

1. The "chain" of funds from confirmation # to confirmation # can be tracked by the purchaser of the original confirmation #. I've done this when trying to find lost $$$s and Southwest customer service was very helpful. They even alerted me to confirmation #s that I had forgotten about, and processed a chargeback for me.

2. In the event that the (now resold) funds are not utilized within the 12-month window, the original owner of the funds CAN get them back. I have done this repeatedly in the past for funds that I thought were otherwise gone (through ignorance, not reselling), even if tickets were issued in other people's names.

3. In the event of a flight cancellation, I am not sure if the funds go back to the credit card or if they stay attached to an open conf #. [anyone?] I know in the case of paperless award tickets, a cancelled flight sends the award back to the person who originally earned it.

3. In the event of a flight cancellation, I am not sure if the funds go back to the credit card or if they stay attached to an open conf #. [anyone?] I know in the case of paperless award tickets, a cancelled flight sends the award back to the person who originally earned it.

Funds should stay with the open conf #. Haven't had an actual flight cancellation (where Southwest cancels the flight), but that's the case when (1) you opt to cancel a reservation or (2) you no-show for a flight. My experience is that anytime you want funds to go back on a credit card, you have to initiate that transaction (as Southwest would rather you keep your money with them and just re-use it later - hopefully in conjunction with more of your money)

1. The "chain" of funds from confirmation # to confirmation # can be tracked by the purchaser of the original confirmation #. I've done this when trying to find lost $$$s and Southwest customer service was very helpful. They even alerted me to confirmation #s that I had forgotten about, and processed a chargeback for me.

You must have an awful big distrust for Ebay sellers Tino. Did you get burned by a seller once or something? First of all, I never knew that the above was true. If I didn't know that, then 90-95% of FTers never knew that either. nsx, did you know that? If nsx didn't know that, then 99% of FTers didn't know either. If 90% of FTers didn't know that, then 99.99% of SWA fliers don't know that the original purchaser can track from conf # to conf. # even if the conf # wasn't made by the original purchaser. When I buy unused funds off of Ebay, I always immediately make a new phantom flight with all the funds into one with a conf # with my name. That way the seller can't make the "mistake" of accidentally using my new credit.
Second, if you distrust sellers so much, why buy anything off Ebay? You could buy a $50 power tool and pay the seller and never have it sent to you, or a $300 RR ticket and never have that sent to you, or a $10,000 plasma TV and never have that sent to you. If you watch a sellers feedback and recent sales history, you really shouldn't have a problem. The Ebay feedback system combined with the Paypal system make the total auction system pretty safe I'd have to say. If something looks fishy (e.g., a seller with 0 feedback that only accepts money orders or Western Union money transfers) with the auction, then pass on it. But if it looks safe, then it probably is pretty safe, at least in my experience with Ebay. As much as you'd think to the contrary, most Ebayers actually are honest.



......Haven't had an actual flight cancellation (where Southwest cancels the flight),

I can confirm that if Southwest cancels the flight you were scheduled to fly on that the ticketless funds remain in an open conf. #. I've had it happen. SWA did give me the option to fully refund the total cost to the original credit card (even though it was a non-refundable ticket). Finally after I hadn't used the credit in about 11.5 months, I had them refund it and it turned out that it got refunded on my buddy's credit card as he must have originally paid for the flight.

nsx, did you know that?

I once knew that (did it once before I improved my record keeping), but I had forgotten. Yeah, the seller can rip you off after the feedback period is over if you have not traveled yet. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that possibility.

If you fly frequently enough, you will find out that Southwest credit $$$s (even expired) are fully refundable. [another unwritten benefit for CP holders]

For the benefit of other CP holders, how does this work? Online, over the phone, in writing? Thanks.

Is it the policy to cheer CP holders like Tino said?

""
Why sell them? If you fly frequently enough, you will find out that Southwest credit $$$s (even expired) are fully refundable. I've cleaned up about 10 unused confirmation codes (some of which had expired) and had them refunded back to my credit card in the past several months. [another unwritten benefit for CP holders]

""

Is it the policy to cheer CP holders like Tino said?

Unlike most other business (especially other airlines), Southwest returns loyalty for loyalty. And they're nice to you even if you are a new customer. Making the customer happy when it's reasonably possible is also a way of making life better for the front-line employees, when you stop to think about it. At Southwest, employees come first, above customers.

I've bought or sold over $20,000 worth of stuff on eBay, so that's not an issue.

However, I personally will not enter into a transaction where someone at a later date can take back what they have sold to me (or have it automatically revert back to them by the airline) unless I am getting a huge discount. Sure, the odds are small but I'd hate to show up at the airport one day and find out that my reservation has vanished. Would I pay 50 cents on the dollar for SW funds? Sure. Would I pay 90+ cents? No.

That's why the market (according to eBay) pays a premium for paper-based award tickets.

I've bought or sold over $20,000 worth of stuff on eBay, so that's not an issue.

.

So you are a mega-seller. What is your ebay screen name? :D

So you are a mega-seller. What is your ebay screen name? :D

Maybe Tino was just one of those people that you hear stories about that got duped on a $10,000 65" plasma TV by some shady Ebay seller in Russia. That would account for half of his $20,000 of buying and selling on Ebay. No wonder he's so bitter towards Ebay. :D J/K You don't seem like the type to get duped Tino.

That's why the market (according to eBay) pays a premium for paper-based award tickets.

I disagree. The premium for paper tickets is that they are easier for ticket brokers to handle. No need to identify the buyer before obtaining inventory from the seller. That means no delay in providing a ticket to the buyer.

Since there is a market for ticketless funds at over 80 percent of full value, and since SWA may even offer to refund your money if you are a major customer, the risk in booking non-refundable tickets far ahead is now truly minimal. I'm booking to the end of the schedule right now.

FWIW, I have found lately that availability LAX-OAK opens up quite a bit roughly 8 weeks before travel. The Change Reservation feature is then quite useful.

FWIW, I have found lately that availability LAX-OAK opens up quite a bit roughly 8 weeks before travel. The Change Reservation feature is then quite useful.
That's interesting -- any idea why it would open up 8 weeks out?

Being able to change one's reservation without penalty is one of the best aspects of flying WN.

That's interesting -- any idea why it would open up 8 weeks out?

Initial availability when the schedule first opens is much worse than it was a year ago. About 8 weeks out, they provide what I would consider normal availability. This must improve yield, but I can't explain how.

You don't seem like the type to get duped Tino.

Nope - never been duped on eBay, but I minimize the chance of that happening by merely skipping the deals that appear to be riskier than others for the amount of $$$ that I'm saving. I buy a LOT of travel-related material on eBay (a majority of the $20k), but I'm not going to give a complete stranger control over my flight plans just to save $20.

Dollar-denominated hotel gift certificates are another story - I am an infinite buyer at 75-80 cents on the dollar, and there are a lot of people selling into that price range.