Canadian Airlines Plus - AC / CP branding....

What are guesses about the 2 brands (Air Canada & Canadian for any of you slower folks) in 1 year and 5 years. Do both survive?

Dorian

The name will be gone once the business and politics are done. Like Reno Air (or Wardair for that matter).

At most, "Canadian" will be a small logo beside the door of a plane with AC livery, like other partners (e.g. "operated by Mesaba Airways" on a Northwest flight). And I doubt even that, as it's not a small partner, it's a major airline that was absorbed.

andrew

Just thought of an interesting question. The offical Chinese name for CP, when translated back to English, is also 'Canadian' or 'Canada' (The Chinese wording is the same no matter it is a verb or a noun), CP registered this Chinese name ages ago. Because of this, Air Canada couldn't use the Chinese name "Canada" or "Canadian" when they inaugurated the YVR - HKG flight a couple years ago. Instead, they called themselves "Maple Leaf Airline" in Chinese. Right now as there is only one major international airline in Canada, I am thinking if Air Canada will adopt the Chinese name of CP, which can fully reflect the status as a true national carrier of Canada.

Originally posted by Dorian:
What are guesses about the 2 brands (Air Canada & Canadian for any of you slower folks) in 1 year and 5 years. Do both survive?

I'll assume that Onex did some market research into that area, and when they proposed the Air Canada takeover, they said that they will use the Air Canada name for the combined airline. I'm guessing the "Canadian Airlines" brand will dissapear as soon as all the legal aspects of the merger is completed.

I think that AC hane no intention of keeping CP as a separate brand. As you can actualy see it is rather complicated with the code share agreement etc... People are quite confused with all this and I am sure that AC will move as fast as they can to fully integrate CP into AC when the legal is sorted out.

I would like to still see the new CP logo somewhere (prob. small)on all AC planes reflecting the merge of the two companies.

My understanding, as an employee, is that the goose is cooked...for now. By some time this fall, if events stay on target, all employees, of both AC and CDN will be wearing the teal uniforms and most a/c will sport the maple leaf livery. Grab your souveniers now while you can. CRA's destiny is still unknown but so far, no Canadian based airline has shown any interest in aquiring them.

However...There is much talk that a new look, indicative of both airlines (including new brand uniforms) will emerge once all the dust has settled and a full merger is a reality. Time frame is anyone's guess. 1, 2 or 3 years? I'll betcha someone is stooped over the drawing board already.

I agree with FLYGIRL's speculation about a complete new look once full integration is achieved. Conversations at YVR with AC and CP staff indicate there is still the big issue of seniority lists, and until that is resolved one way or another, working together for many will be a chafing experience.

Just as we FlyerTalkers are trying to do -- employees must get beyond the "we" beat "them" mentality (and whatever it may be at Cdn) -- and prepare to create the best **** airline in the world. A new, more neutral design image will have to emerge even if it uses the Air Canada name and trade mark. At that point, international varients can be adopted in local languages and lettering, and maybe in China it will be the equivilent of "Canadian", but co-written in all cases with the English/French "Air Canada".

Will the 'new' Air Canada use the new Canadian's uniforms as proposed last year? I think they look rather nice and professional. Personally, I like Canadian's Chinese name more than Air Canada's "maple leaf airline". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

What's in a brand? If there is nothing to distinguish them other than name, what's the point? Take a look at what has happened since March 1:
- In-flight service reduced to AC standards
- Frequent flyer programs reduced to AC
- Carry-on luggage allowances reduced to AC
- terminal mergers
- And I could list others

AC operates most of the transcon services already.

So why keep the sham going. Stop confusing the passenger and admit it is a monopoly.

Agincourt,

We just received word, via email, about new uniforms. Read below:

TWO PHASE UNIFORM PROGRAM TO BEGIN IN JUNE
Employees have been asking lately whether they will be getting new
uniforms. Air Canada is currently in the fifth year of a seven-year
uniform program, and it is now time to start designing a new one.

The decision has now been made to begin the process of creating a
new uniform for all Air Canada and Canadian front line employees.
However, as this takes 18 months to two years to complete, all
Canadian Airlines front line employees will wear the current Air
Canada uniform on an interim basis, while the new uniform is being
developed.

As far as customer contact employees are concerned, Canadian
Airlines employees will continue to wear their current uniforms
until such time as we have inter-mingling agreements with the
respective unions (i.e. Air Canada employees can handle Canadian
Airlines’ customers and flights, or vice-versa).

That being said, a group of 62 (the number may increase) Canadian
Airlines Customer Sales and Service Agents employees who will be
working the Air Canada sub-schedule at Toronto’s Pearson
International Airport, will begin wearing the Air Canada uniform
starting on June 3rd. They will only be dealing with Air Canada
customers.

CUSTOMER SALES AND SERVICE, CARGO, GSE AND RAMP AGENTS
Other CAW and IAM employees will be sized and fitted, and
manufacturing will proceed but the cutover date has not been
determined.

However, the plan is to have an entire station transitioned to the
AC uniform at the same time, beginning with Toronto and then
spreading across the system.

Concierge will be outfitted in the current VIP uniform (black
version of the Air Canada uniform) with a new tie once the positions
have been re-bid in the fall.

PILOTS/FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
Pilots and Flight Attendants will be put into the Air Canada uniform
at the same time but the date has yet to be determined.

MECHANICS
Uniforms will be provided to Line Mechanics at airports that have
higher customer visibility. Heavy Mechanics who work at the hangars
will follow. The delivery dates and details have not been worked out
at this time.

MANAGEMENT
Later this summer, Canadian Airlines front line management at
airports will transition to Air Canada uniforms to align with the
Air Canada policy.

PHASE TWO
The second phase of the project will be the design of a new uniform.
The teams will be able to use the research conducted by Canadian
during their uniform redevelopment exercise of the last two years.
Committees will be formed from all the Air Canada and Canadian
Airlines labour groups to provide input into the new uniform.

Comfort, functionality and an elegant and professional looking
wardrobe are key considerations in designing new uniforms.

As an employee it dosn't really say much concrete but something is in the works and the subject is active.

I'llMissCP,

To an employee, there is alot of credability attached to a brand name and memory of what it meant does not die easy or readily for us, any faster than it dims for you. You and I are both being lead into the reality of what is economical today and what is accepted generally as a guideline for what an airline should offer (or can get away with) in this industry. It has become a North American standard in commercial aviation.

Today the offerings (or cutbacks) may seem scant or drastic and in some areas they are, but with vigorous competition rumoured to be emerging this will be checked and elaborated on in the future in my opinion. The people you dealt with in the past will still be around and the quality of many of them will not change.

I truly feel that people like yourself, who rely so much on aviation in their daily lives will have a tremendous influence in keeping or regaining the hallmark service options that you have come to expect, once the restructuring is complete, the merger is accomplished and the focus is off of the dollar amount marked in red at the bottom of the financial report.

Much of the reduction you quoted in your posting was always the desire of Canadian to attain. The only edge they had was to keep these extras in the name of competition to have one up on the "other carrier" but at such a cost to the company. The result is history in the making.

It was good while it lasted and maybe we will see some of it return in time. I know of what I speak, I used to fly for Wardair.

Keep working at keeping us honest and worthy of your patronage.

Fly Girl I really liked the last portion of your posting. At this point of the merger I think that some AC employess should also read it.

Integration steps are much faster that I expected (perhaps too fast...) but the reality is that in a very short period of time CP will be almost gone. As a loyal customer it is not easy to look at this but we don't have other choice that look forward and hope that the future will be much better.

The next few months will be probably some kind of a mess but hopefully at the end of the year most of this will be over and who knows perhaps the new "Proud Wings " will have an AC logo on the tail :-)

This may seem insensitive to the loyal and devoted employees of both airlines... A principle of change management is to implement the change as soon as possible after a merger. Death by a thousands changes is a more inhumane form of implementation. The challenge is to implement the massive change in a compasionate manner that respects both groups. In a few companies that I have worked with, they have had some form of ritual funeral to lay to rest the former companies. Many of the postings in this forum are expressions of grief at a real loss and a beginninig of mourning. We frequent flyers should be very sensitive to these losses both personal and corporate.

Airbus320 you are absolutely correct. The quick, cold and staccato cuts are better in the long run than one at at time, assess, implement the next one, assess, etc. Many people, travellers and employees can't keep up with the rush and they feel like they are in a tailspin or caught in a vortex some days. But as a result of the rapid changes, plan "A" in some cases has not been effective so improvements are constantly being sought to the initial draft planning in numerous areas.

In the meantime, the airline is vulnerable to every indiscretion being plastered in the media...even though the subject matters are incidents that occur all year round without the present public exposure. They are rectified quietly with the individual(s) involved.

I have to take some objection to your funeral analogy. We are not dead nor will we be...ever. Logos and liveries disapppear but the spirit of the employees will be glimpsed for years to come. Remnants of CP will always be visable or recognized in the merged airline. The entity that was CP will not be buried totally - pieces will always be there. We will be alive as having served and known you in the past and will recognise you in the future. You will remind us what foundation our experience and character were built on but it will be portrayed in the new regime as experience gained over the years: it will always be part of our history; those days of Canadian, the perpetually cash-strapped underdog in the fight for dominance of the Canadian skies.

Even though WW1 and WW2 are years in our past, don't we still hear about it, read about it, respect it and remember it?

Moving on to a new future is challenging and exciting, but dismissing your roots would be a travesty while attempting to move forward.

Now if we can just get the powers to be to bring back points 1 - 4...I'd love to see it for both of us. Good Luck and keep the pressure on.

Flygirl: My funeral analogy was indeed misleading. I should have said a ritual act to honour the past excellence of those dedicated employees who invest their time and energy to make their company top notch. Moving forward is not denying the past. The past is not dead; it lives in the future. I for one look forward to travel on a suberb new brand, born of the best of two great airlines. In fact, I fly tomorrow on CP and look forward to great service.

Well put, airbus320. I am flying CP tomorrow too. First time in 6 months and I too am looking forward to great service and daydreaming of sitting in J. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Flygirl: Thanks for keeping us up to date with news from the "inside"!


FewMiles..

P.S. Who knows what happens in the future? Maybe the great goose will be back. I think it would look quite nice with a half maple leaf as the trailing edge of its wing and could be a nice blend of the AC and CP logos.