US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Inventory Question

So my flight on PHL-FRA 11/29/04 is pretty much sold out..only Y4 is showing as open. In talking to IndyDavid he surmised that perhaps coach is oversold enough that they have actually blocked out J inventory, vs them actually selling 41 J seats. Of course i'd like to upgrade, but i'm curious if they would block out business class inventory to compensate for Y sales.

Does that happen in practice?

So my flight on PHL-FRA 11/29/04 is pretty much sold out..only Y4 is showing as open. In talking to IndyDavid he surmised that perhaps coach is oversold enough that they have actually blocked out J inventory, vs them actually selling 41 J seats. Of course i'd like to upgrade, but i'm curious if they would block out business class inventory to compensate for Y sales.

Does that happen in practice?
Yes it does. As they approach an oversold position, they will hold "J" seats back. It will howver increase your chances of an upgrade.* ^ You just will not get it until the gate.

*unless of course they sell those 41 seats at envoy pricing.

I'm fine with at the gate...and if they can sell 41 J seats, more power to them, they need the money and i'm happy to sit in coach if that is the case!

Do you think that is the situation for my flight?

I'm fine with at the gate...and if they can sell 41 J seats, more power to them, they need the money and I'm happy to sit in coach if that is the case!

Do you think that is the situation for my flight?
I would say your odds of clearing are around 90%. ( I sure hope we don't get another lesson in probabilities :D ) Just make sure you do on line check-in or your odds drop to 38.2%

I would say your odds of clearing are around 90%. ( I sure hope we don't get another lesson in probabilities :D ) Just make sure you do on line check-in or your odds drop to 38.2%

I can't online checkin! It's a paper ticket since it has a LH connection!

I will get there early, the TXL connection should at least help with the checkin time.

I don't know the answer to your question but I have a similar issue. Flying DCA-LAX with fiancé on 2 double miles award ticket (effectively full Y rules). Per ITN there are very few (<4) Y seats left for sale, but most legs are showing F7. Seems like they should be releasing some of these seats for upgrades. It is now 4 days until departure. CP should have already been processed, GP (I am GP) should be done tomorrow. On a ticket that is equivalent to a full Y, I feel as though given the number of seats available, I should have been upgraded by now. I thought that US was releasing more seats earlier for upgrades. Any thoughts?

I don't know the answer to your question but I have a similar issue. Flying DCA-LAX with fiancé on 2 double miles award ticket (effectively full Y rules). Per ITN there are very few (<4) Y seats left for sale, but most legs are showing F7. Seems like they should be releasing some of these seats for upgrades. It is now 4 days until departure. CP should have already been processed, GP (I am GP) should be done tomorrow. On a ticket that is equivalent to a full Y, I feel as though given the number of seats available, I should have been upgraded by now. I thought that US was releasing more seats earlier for upgrades. Any thoughts?
More than likely the seats will not be sold at envoy prices. However, they do have a chance at over selling the back of the bus. Those over sales are being covered by available seats in envoy. So in a round about way they are getting additional revenue by withholding those seats and over selling coach.

Not to fear though. The upgrades are going to go the CP's/GP's before they go to the oversells. I know. I've been op upgraded with out a certificate on two occasions. Relax, this is going to turn out OK.

I would call and see if they will clear a seat for you at three days. May not work but worth the effort and peace of mind if it does. Then if all else fails, check-in on line if that options is available to you. You may not get row 1, but the odds are in your favor that you will be in envoy.

More than likely the seats will not be sold at envoy prices. However, they do have a chance at over selling the back of the bus. Those over sales are being covered by available seats in envoy. So in a round about way they are getting additional revenue by withholding those seats and over selling coach.

Not to fear though. The upgrades are going to go the CP's/GP's before they go to the oversells. I know. I've been op upgraded with out a certificate on two occasions. Relax, this is going to turn out OK.

I would call and see if they will clear a seat for you at three days. May not work but worth the effort and peace of mind if it does. Then if all else fails, check-in on line if that options is available to you. You may not get row 1, but the odds are in your favor that you will be in envoy.

Ture, but El Boocho is flying domestic: DCA-LAX. The inverntory for a premium award comes out of the E bucket which you can see on ITN and other engines. With F7 I am very surprised if E is 0 unless it is a Mon morning or other very peak time. The holiday may have played a part in this.

Which segments have not cleared? Since premium award tickets are like Y tickets, you should have had ability to upgrade at time of purchase. On those tickets, I check ITN and book whichever flight has E inventory and upgrade immediately.

Are you sure you are in the upgrade queue?

Ture, but El Boocho is flying domestic: DCA-LAX. The inverntory for a premium award comes out of the E bucket which you can see on ITN and other engines. With F7 I am very surprised if E is 0 unless it is a Mon morning or other very peak time. The holiday may have played a part in this.

Which segments have not cleared? Since premium award tickets are like Y tickets, you should have had ability to upgrade at time of purchase. On those tickets, I check ITN and book whichever flight has E inventory and upgrade immediately.

Are you sure you are in the upgrade queue?
Duh I sure didn't read that well. Sorry for the error.

Doesn't the premium award for domestic come out of the P bucket. I swear I can't remember. Brain damage.

Duh I sure didn't read that well. Sorry for the error.

Doesn't the premium award for domestic come out of the P bucket. I swear I can't remember. Brain damage.

Indeed it does come out of P.

Duh I sure didn't read that well. Sorry for the error.

Doesn't the premium award for domestic come out of the P bucket. I swear I can't remember. Brain damage.


DUH,

My brain damage now. It is the P bucket - the one you can see.

I know the missing E bucket ws brought up at RF but not at my group. Any word on it's return? I really miss it.

I don't know the answer to your question but I have a similar issue. Flying DCA-LAX with fiancé on 2 double miles award ticket (effectively full Y rules). Per ITN there are very few (<4) Y seats left for sale, but most legs are showing F7. Seems like they should be releasing some of these seats for upgrades. It is now 4 days until departure. CP should have already been processed, GP (I am GP) should be done tomorrow. On a ticket that is equivalent to a full Y, I feel as though given the number of seats available, I should have been upgraded by now. I thought that US was releasing more seats earlier for upgrades. Any thoughts?

If you have a premium coach award (the equivalent of a Y ticket), you do not have to wait for the upgrade window; the ticket is upgradeable upon booking, as long as there's "P" inventory.

What probably happened in your case, is that "P" wasn't available at the time of your request and they waitlisted you for an upgrade. Problem is that, based on my experience, the waitilisting "process" will look for "E" inventory in order to clear the upgrade; not "P". In other words, "P" inventory might have opened up for your flight -which happens before the "E" bucket opens up- and the "computer" doesn't know you qualify for the upgrade into "P". A phone call is required.

PS: I just went through this exercise with the CP line -P wasn't available when I booked my premium award, it opened up later. The had to undo and redo my upgrade request... a process that appears to be more difficult than it sounds as I was placed on hold for about 10 minutes while the agent did it.

If you have a premium coach award (the equivalent of a Y ticket), you do not have to wait for the upgrade window; the ticket is upgradeable upon booking, as long as there's "P" inventory.

What probably happened in your case, is that "P" wasn't available at the time of your request and they waitlisted you for an upgrade. Problem is that, based on my experience, the waitilisting "process" will look for "E" inventory in order to clear the upgrade; not "P". In other words, "P" inventory might have opened up for your flight -which happens before the "E" bucket opens up- and the "computer" doesn't know you qualify for the upgrade into "P". A phone call is required.

PS: I just went through this exercise with the CP line -P wasn't available when I booked my premium award, it opened up later. The had to undo and redo my upgrade request... a process that appears to be more difficult than it sounds as I was placed on hold for about 10 minutes while the agent did it.

I think this is exactly the case. When I booked the ticket there was no availability or the agent who may have only looked at the E bucket (not both E & P) said there was nothing available. Per Virtually There we were waitlisted. I called a few hours before the GM window, just to make sure that there was still no availability in E/P buckets. Low and behold I the agent redid something and was able to clear the upgrades on 3 of the 4 legs. It did take a while for the agent to work his magic. Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.

I hope the transcons were upgraded.

Since I buy a lot of Y/B fares, I must say the inventory does a very good job about saving "P" seats for people like me. I almost always get upgraded at time of reservation, even if I buy a ticket 2 days out. Of course, there are certain routes/times where it is much harder than others, but in general I rarely have to do the gate dance.

I hope the transcons were upgraded.

The transcons were upgraded. The only one that wasn't the was CLT-DCA. Per ITN the inventory is zeroed out in all categories. We have exit row seats. If it doesn't happen for us, it's no biggie.

Duh I sure didn't read that well. Sorry for the error.

Doesn't the premium award for domestic come out of the P bucket. I swear I can't remember. Brain damage.

What fare bucket does the premium domestic award come out of when you first book? I'm trying to get on a flight that shows F7 P7 A4 Y0 N4 B3 H0 Q0 M0 V0 L0 W0 S0 T0 but cannot. Looking at the numbers, I assume that it comes out of Y. But why would N and B be available if Y isn't?

What fare bucket does the premium domestic award come out of when you first book? I'm trying to get on a flight that shows F7 P7 A4 Y0 N4 B3 H0 Q0 M0 V0 L0 W0 S0 T0 but cannot. Looking at the numbers, I assume that it comes out of Y. But why would N and B be available if Y isn't?
"P" is what you are looking for

"P" is what you are looking for

But you have to book into coach first and then upgrade to P. If the coach seat is not available, then you can't even book the flight. The flight I want has plenty of P available, but I still can't get on because there's no coach available.

But you have to book into coach first and then upgrade to P. If the coach seat is not available, then you can't even book the flight. The flight I want has plenty of P available, but I still can't get on because there's no coach available.
Yes that is a problem and it has happened to me before as well. I had to book a FC award ticket as a result. At least they have their story straight. :D

But you have to book into coach first and then upgrade to P. If the coach seat is not available, then you can't even book the flight. The flight I want has plenty of P available, but I still can't get on because there's no coach available.

Just to add to l4p's statement the P bucket is what the premium award upgrade goes from, but the original premium award is booked from the Y bucket.

-JC

Just to add to l4p's statement the P bucket is what the premium award upgrade goes from, but the original premium award is booked from the Y bucket.

-JC

Doesn't Y cost more than an N or B fare? Is there an obvious reason why Y can be zeroed out, but N and B fares are available?

Doesn't Y cost more than an N or B fare? Is there an obvious reason why Y can be zeroed out, but N and B fares are available?

Typically, yes, purchased Y fares cost more than N or B fares. And you'll actually find more cities offering only N/B fares rather than Y fares. Example: PHL-PVD doesn't offer a Y fare but N/B are.

The "cost" of Y for the carrier for a premium award ticket is still the same as a standard award - zero; its just a matter of inventory control.

-JC

Typically, yes, purchased Y fares cost more than N or B fares. And you'll actually find more cities offering only N/B fares rather than Y fares. Example: PHL-PVD doesn't offer a Y fare but N/B are.

The "cost" of Y for the carrier for a premium award ticket is still the same as a standard award - zero; its just a matter of inventory control.

-JC

So you cannot book a premium coach award from PHL-PVD since there's no Y fare?

So you cannot book a premium coach award from PHL-PVD since there's no Y fare?

Sure you can. The Y bucket still exists, but there is no purchaseable Y fare from PHL-PVD.

-JC

I'm trying to get on a flight that shows F7 P7 A4 Y0 N4 B3 H0 Q0 M0 V0 L0 W0 S0 T0 but cannot. Looking at the numbers, I assume that it comes out of Y. But why would N and B be available if Y isn't?
I'm going to guess looking at the above inventory, the flight is oversold, thus the refusal to book the premium award for you.

There is plenty of inventory in F, but they often over book the flights by leaving more seats for sale in the buckets vs what the plane will hold. Then any over sales in coach will be op upgraded to F. This would explain why the above still shows 4 seats left. Most of the flights I see with this limited invertory to sell are over sold.

As the original poster to this. I can say my upgrade didn't clear. In addition they were not able to checkin me for my flight FRA-PHL at TXL (Berlin).

Chris

What fare bucket does the premium domestic award come out of when you first book? I'm trying to get on a flight that shows F7 P7 A4 Y0 N4 B3 H0 Q0 M0 V0 L0 W0 S0 T0 but cannot. Looking at the numbers, I assume that it comes out of Y. But why would N and B be available if Y isn't?

I just checked ITN and this flight (DCA-CLT) changed to F6 P5 A4 Y2 N2 B1 H0 Q0 V0 L0 W0 S0 M0 T0. The connecting flight (CLT-SQ) that works best with this showed Y1 N1 B1 H0 Q0 V0 L0 W0 S0 M0 T0 K0. I was able to get those flights with my premium award. Now the first flight shows P4 and Y1 so my ticket took a seat from both fare buckets. And the connecting flight is now zeroed out and is not bookable. I cannot believe that I was able to land the last seat for sale on the plane with an award ticket. This is a very good use of 40,000 miles.

I cannot believe that I was able to land the last seat for sale on the plane with an award ticket. This is a very good use of 40,000 miles.

Since the premium pulls from full Y it can be a very good use. Especially on a nearly sold out route.

As the original poster to this. I can say my upgrade didn't clear. In addition they were not able to checkin me for my flight FRA-PHL at TXL (Berlin).

Chris
Chris. I'm sorry to hear you did not clear. Of course had I known that you could not check in until FRA, I would have estimated you chances of upgradiing at zero. :D

With envoy almost empty at the time or your orginal posting, do you have any idea what happened. Was coach full and they op-upgraded everyone? Surely they pulled prefereds up front before the masses. I'm just having a hard time understanding why you didn't clear. And certainly not the way to treat the moderator of this forum

They will not book a premium award if Y is not available - no matter how many seats are available on the flight.

I ran into a Y0 B4 issue last year when I tried to book a premium award on a flight. They would not let me book it because the Y bucket had no seats even though coach seats were still available. I had to book another flight.

I was not happy. This goes against the spirit of the premium award. The spirit of the award is that if there is a coach seat available, then you get it. 99% of the time, that last seat would have come out ofthe Y bucket so I believe that is why they wrote that detail in to the rules.

Nobody at US (Chairman's desk) would agree with me. Finally, when I asked if they have ever seen Y0 B4 they admitted no. They called inventory to see why and inventory said becuse the B and Y fare was the same, they did not make Y available.

I did not push the issue..why ...it was the Monday after the Superbowl. I took it as a way not to have people book premium awards for flights that they were getting a lot of money for.

I didn't like it, but thought it was very creative by inventory if that is what they were doing.

And certainly not the way to treat the moderator of this forum

This cracked me up. Thanks.

I cleared on the outbound which was wide open, but on the way back C was showing as zero on ITN. Business class was actually sold out with paying customers, the checkin agent actually brought it up to take a look it and told me. There was one CP ahead of me who had checked in earlier.

In retrospect it would have been confusing for someone at the airport because at TXL they couldn't print out a ticket. So i went to the LH transfer desk wondering what would happen and she couldn't print one either and I think the regular process would be for someone to wait until the gate opened to get a boarding pass printed out . We were there very early so I exited and went to the US checkin desk which wasn't that far away from my arrival gate from TXL. I could see where a non experienced traveller would be VERY confused as my friend and I (who is a US2) were a bit mystified.

It left me asking how you would checkin for the FRA flight without going outside security again if you were connecting from another LH flight.

They were really polite though and when i went back to see if i cleared informing me it had checked in full and detached the coupon for later use.

I couldn't really object to not clearning if the cabin was full of paying customers! US needs the money!

Chris