Frontier Airlines EarlyReturns - A318's Must Be Bleeding Frontier Dry

Those fat, short, little fuel swilling A318's Frontier has must seem like a really brilliant purchase with oil at $54!! Have they asked Airbus to take them back yet, or fired the brilliant manager who bought them. I bet NWA's DC-9's are better on fuel than the A318!!

I heard also that Airbus damaged one of F9's new Airbus' (cant remember if its a 318 or 319) prior to delivery while still in Germany so that's set back its delivery date by a few weeks too...

N674UW

A 318 was heavily damaged and a 319 received minor damage during flight tests resulting from debris on a newly re-paved runway at one of Airbus' Germany facilities.

I'm not quite up to speed on the A318. Why do they suck fuel versus a A319?

My non-scientific understanding is that they are significantly less efficient because it is essentially an A319/320 airframe that has been shortened. Since the airframe was originally designed for the larger A319/a320, it is less efficient. The selling point is that this aerodynamic inefficiency can be offset by the benefits of fleet commonality with the A319/320/321. I have heard it said that no one would buy an A318 on a standalone basis--that it only makes sense as part of an overall fleet plan. This is supposed to be its major selling advantage with respect to the 717 (though neither the 717 nor the A318 has been particularly successful in my understanding...), which shares only limited commonality with other complementary Boeing aircraft (e.g. 737NG series).

My non-scientific understanding is that they are significantly less efficient because it is essentially an A319/320 airframe that has been shortened. Since the airframe was originally designed for the larger A319/a320, it is less efficient. The selling point is that this aerodynamic inefficiency can be offset by the benefits of fleet commonality with the A319/320/321. I have heard it said that no one would buy an A318 on a standalone basis--that it only makes sense as part of an overall fleet plan. This is supposed to be its major selling advantage with respect to the 717 (though neither the 717 nor the A318 has been particularly successful in my understanding...), which shares only limited commonality with other complementary Boeing aircraft (e.g. 737NG series).

The 717 hasn't sold well, but still much, much better than the 318. The 318 has 82 orders and a whopping 12 deliveries thus far (most of those orders will never be delivered, either cancelled or converted to 319's). The 717 has 167 orders and 134 deliveries. The 717 MAY get some renewed interest with high fuel prices, since it is much more efficient than the A318 and apparently as efficient as the forthcoming, smaller, E195. My major point is that the commonality madness that infected the airline industry in the last 10 years looks pretty stupid with oil at $50 a barrel. The 318 is the worst example of taking commonality one shrink too far and ending up with a very inefficient litte oinker.

Veliger writes:
Those fat, short, little fuel swilling A318's Frontier has must seem like a really brilliant purchase with oil at $54!! Have they asked Airbus to take them back yet, or fired the brilliant manager who bought them.

Actually, your assumptions are 180 degrees off. Here are some quotes from Frontier COO Sean Menke, (recently promoted from VP, Marketing) which appeared in Airways Magazine earlier this year:

"We expected 7-10% better operating costs than the A319, and it (the A318) consistently outperforms that target."

"(it is) 23% cheaper to operate than the 732."

"10.5 hours a day with 99% dispatch reliability."

Veliger writes:
I bet NWA's DC-9's are better on fuel than the A318!!

Comparing the DC-9 to an A318 is like comparing a 1967 Pontiac Bonneville to a 2005 Hybrid Honda. I'll take that bet---any amount, anytime.


Part of the problem in any comparison with the 717 is the assumption that both planes are intended to do the same thing. They aren't. The 717 has a range of about 1000 miles.

The A318 has a similar range to the A320 and can do transcons. Frontier uses them for DEN/PHL, DEN/LGA, for example.

DEN-PHL and DEN-LGA aren't transcons by any means; they would be considered midcons. JFK/EWR to the West Coast would be an example of a transcon.

F9 does not fly direct btw NY and the west coast. the longest distance they travel is btw LAX and PHL, DEN and CUN or even the seasonal DEN and ANC hauls.

The 318 is essentially a 717-killer, conceived (and announced in true vaporware style) right about the time Boeing looked like it might finally be jump starting the 717 product. In the airframe manufacturing business, it's up close, and very personal, these days. Why the major planemakers even fool with planes this size, when there is so much convergence with commmuter aircraft of similar capacity, is beyond me. Brazil's new Embraer 170/190 series are very competent, and a lot cheaper, and are outselling the big boys. The 318 offers cockpit compatability with the rest of the 320 line, which means sizable training and pilot utilization savings, but I have to believe anything the French are involved with (like Airbus) somehow finds it's way to assisted marketing (subsidies), even though the EC says it can't happen. It just seems like every third world dogmeat airline startup from Azerbaijan to Zambia has an Airbus parked outside, with its name on it.

It just seems like every third world dogmeat airline startup from Azerbaijan to Zambia has an Airbus parked outside, with its name on it.

... and that applies to JetBlue too till they fix their FF program to at least be equivalent to Southwest's! :D

... and that applies to JetBlue too till they fix their FF program to at least be equivalent to Southwest's! :D

Equaling WN's Rapid Regrets isn't saying much. Much like stepping up to the level of poo. :p