MilesBuzz! - Top-Tier Status: American or United

I'll be moving very shortly to New York, glad that I will be out of Northwest's fortress. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Reviewing all my flying habits for my new job, American or United will be my regular airline, since I'll be flying lots all around the nation, incl ORD, plus around the globe.

I want to hear people's opinons about the benefits (published and otherwise) as an Executive Platinum on American and/or United Airlines 1K. Plus, opinions on the carriers in general.

I just spoke with a friend who returned from a trip in the new AA suite product, and she said that in her opinion it was far better than United's suite. Plus, AA will be adding legroom to 60+ inches in Business Class; something UA will not be doing.

Most of my domestic travel will be in Y-Fares, while overseas will be in F or J. I understand that AA has unlimited, non-capacity controlled, confirmable at time of booking upgrades on Y fare, while UA does not. Does this make a difference? If, on UA, you never run out of certs and can still always confirm the upgrades, the AA benefit is not important.

How are AA benefits vs. UA benefits on the OneWorld and Star Alliances? I know that you can't earn miles on BA overseas, but I'm ok with that.

What is the general treatment/benefits/quality of these two carriers, compared to each other.

NWAPlatinum
MSP soon to be NYC!

NWAPlatinum, you might want to start off by becoming familiar with the basic published and unpublished perks of United's 1K level by visiting the Premier Executive 1K section of The Unofficial United Help Desk. (http://members.aol.com/millionmileflyer/uahelpdesk.html)

You may also want to check out the Award and Upgrade Centers there to see some of United's methods of operations in this regard.

Good Luck!

There's lot's of information and opinions regarding top tier status on both the AA and UA boards.

My personal preference is AA, particularly with all of the UA problems this year.

Contact AAdvantage customer service and you can probably get comped to Platinum. Comps to Executive Platinum are rare, if they happen at all, although many have tried.

In my opinion, the EXP desk provides the best overall telephone support and service.

As an EXP, you receive four VIP-2 systemwide upgrade certificates each year. These are not capacity controlled and confirmable at booking.

Electronic upgrades are earned based on flight activity or may be purchased. They are space available. EXP may request upgrades to the next class of service at booking but the upgrades begin to clear at the 100 hour before flight time EXP window (72 hours for Platinum and 24 hours for Gold).

On Y fare tickets, EXP receive complementary upgrades to next class of service, but the are subject to the same 100 hour upgrade window as electronic upgrades.

Thanks. I did previously review the published benefits of the two airlines (the official sites and that of PremEx).

I did review their boards for info specific to EP/1K, and for general airline opinions. It can be really hard, though, since people complain a lot more than they complement. If you read all the complaints on the UA board, they sound worse than a 3rd world carrier, but I think that good things are rarely mentioned.

If you read all the complaints on the UA board, they sound worse than a 3rd world carrier well ... the world-ranking by airlines preferences (speaking/thinking service wise) could well rank US-carriers only 3rd or even much higher http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

An excellent observation, NWAPlatinum! And I really admire the careful and logical way you are gathering info in order to make your decision.

One more thing, though I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe that bonus miles on AA count towards elite qualification/re-qualification? I do know that on AA bonus miles count towards Million Mile status.

You could look at this as a plus (quicker to elite or Million Mile on AA) or as a negative (United's being harder to acheive makes it more rare and special and less "competitive" on UA).

Just something to think about.

Also, there has been some rumor about United introducing a new Business Class product in the near future. Perhaps this will compare to AAs?

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 10-15-2000).]

Bonus miles on AA do not count towards elite status, only flying miles (except when 500 for a segment is the minimum), but they do count towards lifetime gold or platinum by going into the total pot.

------------------
DtG

And another distinction to consider: miles on Oneworld partners earn AA elite status bonus miles unlike the UA practice with respect to most *A partners.

Another: UA has lost its 1K edge on domestic upgrade certificate collection, having now joined the AA "electronic age". BUT, UA upgrade cert requirements are point to point vice AA's per segment. 5 certs for cross country versus AA's 6 on connections. Check out your own flying routes to see if that makes a material difference.

Flying Oneworld this past week and touching JFK, LHR, and OSL, I found my lowly sapphire status recognized as significant by several gate agents, lounge CSRs, etc. Have not felt any significance attached to *GOLD. Perhaps that signals better recognition abroad with EP?

It may not be the best time to compare... you never know what problems AA may have next compared to UA...
But UA does have an extensive network and partner network... I agree they are pretty stingy on upgrades (compared to CO, NW, or US).. but hey it is the largest.

Depends what your "push buttons" are like ugprades, etc. US Chairmans Prefered I flew in Coach 2 times on 60 + flights, on UA as a 1K about 50% (not counting shuttle.. but is shuttle first, really first/??)

Anyone else?
Thanks

A tough choice, especially at this time, with the UA difficulties and potential US merger along with One World rumblings etc, but I'd give the edge to AA! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And after NWA....well...! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Even though I don't have any advice for you NWA, but I think AA is better than UA for the simple fact that AA is based in Texas, and eventually AA will be my main airline, since moving to DFW area is inevitable if you are in the Telecom business.

Al

I think it's worth at least a mention: are you giving CO consideration as well?

Advantages:

- Unlimited domestic upgrades at no cost to you (no points, coupons, or miles required) on Y fares at time of purchase, at gold and platinum elite levels

- Most Gold and Platinum Elites (at least, the ones who post on this board) get very high percentage - 80-100% - of upgrades on discount fares, again with no coupons, points, or miles required

- Great international service in BusinessFirst cabin

- Hub location in EWR very convenient to some NYC addresses

- Fewer miles needed to qualify for top level elite status

- Great mileage bonus program at Platinum Elite level (125% bonus for all flights regardless of fare, and unpublished 50% bonus for using e-tickets)

Disadvantages:

- EWR has one of the worst on-time records of any airport in the US

- Even including partners, much smaller international route system than OneWorld or Star, although CO serves many European destinations from EWR

- International BusinessFirst reward travel not confirmed until 30 days before flight

- NW is a primary partner (although some would disagree with me that this is a disadvantage)

- Tri-color pasta

You wrote:

>>It can be really hard, though, since people complain a lot more than they complement.

By and large, this is not true on the CO board. Many of us find that CO delivers a consistently high level of service, and, overall, a quality product.

Again, I know it's not what you asked, but perhaps worth a look.

1. One consideration is AA's equipment, lots of MD-80s with no entertainment systems. Poor widebodies transcon (although I suppose this may change, I don't know if it has already).

2. I always disliked the MD-80s when I flew AA. I flew in F a lot, though, compared to hard-to-get upgrades with UA.

3. Bottom line for me is the most direct flights from your location, that's the airline I want to fly on.

4. I would definitely consider CO if I was in NY area and if I didn't mind NW or HP (I do). CO is a great airline (except for poor policy for upgrades internationally, NW, and HP)

5. IF AA drops OneWorld, UA will offer better route network and better partners.

6. Channel 9.

A couple more points, based on Richard's remarks:

- It's quite possible, especially when you live in a CO hub, to avoid NW altogether - unless you're traveling to Asia. I haven't flown with them for quite a while now, since my trip to Wausau, WI last year.

- CO has lots of MD 80's as well. I personally don't have any problem with them (especially since I'm always upgraded on them), but I realize lots of people do.

- Another potential downside to CO is 757 transatlantic service on some routes. If you're in BusinessFirst, it's just fine, but I think coach on a long route like that would be quite unpleasant on a 757.

CO has MD-80s but not nearly as many as AA does, and those MD-80s are old too. However, AA is the better choice when you compare it with UA.

AA requires more miles for award travel.

Another potential downside to CO is 757 transatlantic service on some routes. If you're in BusinessFirst, it's just fine, but I think coach on a long route like that would be quite unpleasant on a 757.

The 757 is better than the 738s!! CO has very tight pitch --I think as low as 31 in. for their coach seats on 737 transcons. Miserable.

I guess AA changed their pitch but I flew on a brand new 738 transcon and it wasn't pretty! I prefer the A319 or A320.

This may be splitting hairs. The big advantage to UA though can be lots more widebodies and more chances of 767, 777, 747s and those are lots nicer in business class (usually) than F on a narrow body whichever kind of narrow body we are talking about.

As a UA 1K in a few weeks I am biased, but interestingly nearly ALL the useful and valuable benefits of 1K are NOT written anywhere on the UA website or general MP program info. Premex covers most of them on his excellent site, and they are pretty amazing. The UA route network It'l is of course far superior to that of AA. That may or may not appeal to your needs? Their April re-introduced r-t-w via India will only add to it, as will the probable digestion of US Airways, adding several new It'l destinations.

A 1K can fully confirmed upgrade, up to 330 days in advance, a $1000 r/t lowest price ticket from here to Europe or South America, both via the USA, and back, well over 30,000 flown miles, using only 2 x 1K upgrade certs. If AA had the same route network you could do the same, but they do not!

And comparing the comments on the UA board to any other is only meaningful when you consider the UA board now generates as many messages each day as ALL the other airline boards added together, so that brings it into some perpective. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

Wow, you are jaded:
1. AA's EP system wides let you book into C or F class, not NC or NF. That makes a HUGE difference in the ability to upgrade.
2. AA's mileage upgrads let you upgrade on any fare, not just certain fares. Again, a potential massive difference in the fares.
3. AA allows unlimited upgrades domestically on full Y fares, UA only gives free upgrades on the Shuttle.
4. AA gives bonus miles on all oneworld partner flights, UA only gives you credit towards elite status. This means you could be losing half the miles.
5. AA lets its EP access the first class lounge of any oneworld carrier while traveling internationally. Not with UA.
6. AA opens up space in Y for sold out flights. UA? Not.

I could go on and on, but there isn't a choice.

Actually, please do fly UA. More upgrade space for those of us true believers ...

I guess I'll throw in my two cents as well.

NWAPlatinum, where do you want to travel? Domestically, CO, AA, and UA will give you the most non-stops in that order.

Internationally, UA has the best network. When you throw in partners, UA and AA are pretty much on top especially in Asia and Australia.

I'm 1K and was, briefly, EXP. AA wins, hands down, for all of the reasons noted by Freakflyer. Continues to amaze me that UA doesn't have "1K ombudsmans" who can help with any problems (baggage, MilPlus, etc.)

Vis a vis in-flight service, I prefer UA for domestic Y and F services (except for Shuttle, of course), UA for int'l C (better seats than AA's) and AA for int'l (better suites and MUCH better entertainment/food service).

Good advice above. I'll emphasize the importance of what routes you'll be flying to your decision (particularly after a summer of missed connections on UA). As a 1K in NYC who goes to Europe a lot, I can say UA isn't that convenient for anything other than London (or taking a *A carrier to Germany or Scandinavia); I'd particularly warn you about the dangers of trying to connect through IAD, to which UA cancels or delays LGA and EWR flights at the merest hint of a raindrop or breeze. On the other hand, as has been pointed out, UA's (and *A's) Asia routes are better. How much California travel will you be doing? AA has a better schedule to LAX, but last time I looked, UA had the edge to SFO. As noted above, UA generally has the better planes, and not just because there are more widebodies; much as I dislike UA's 767-200's--which are supposedly going to be refurbished soon (but not soon enough)-- which they use for all flights out of JFK to LAX and almost all JFK-SFO flights (you can get a 757 or A320 out of EWR, but I don't like narrowbodies for transcon flights), I recently flew an AA 767 transcon in C and thought the plane was even worse than UA's. I do think that overall(and of course there are exceptions) AA's FA's are far nicer than UA's in any class of service. Ditto AA's food. I think CO has the best elite program, but I'll second the comments above about NW and HP. Hope this helps.

Wow.. memories.. I forgot some issues on why I switched to UA.. I was flying ORD-LAX on AA and the problems were:

- No audio/movies
- Bistro Meal Service.
- weaker schedule compared to UA.
- Better aircraft for UA (A320 vs MD80)

I really think comfort on the aircraft you travel is more important than any FF benefit. Of course, it depends on how much you are Y compared to F. Another thing I enjoy w/ UA is domestic 747 and 777 service from LAX-DEN. Very nice way to relax...

Note zrs70's comment. It takes 30k points to upgrade from coach to FC roundtrip US. UAL as with others takes only 20k. What's up with that??

I have flown AA's new FC seats on the MD80s and found them to be fairly nice, forget the Fokker 100s in FC tho. I don't fly UA as I am in Texas and AA has a better schedule. CO's FC is not bad either.

AA's 2-1-2 on the 767ERs DFW/LAX are very nice.

Going to New York? Consider going over to Continental. Your NW status is just fine over there, and by the end of the year you should be a CO top tier elite.

Of United and AA - count me among the AA supporters all the way down the line. Better on time performance, better coach class. Worse food though, bring your own coffee.

Again, it all comes down to where you are flying.

All the upgrade perks in the world are not going to do you any good if they don't fly to where you want to go.

the lifetime gold and platinum for 1mil and 2mil program miles is quite an advantageous perk in the aa program.

FYI, there is some news on United's new Business Class with sleeper seats in:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003322.html

I think it depends on where you are flying overseas as some others have pointed out.

I prefer 1W if you travel first on international routes. Most carriers now have beds. Whereas on *A, only UA (still slowly installing) and SQ do.

Originally posted by condor:
the lifetime gold and platinum for 1mil and 2mil program miles is quite an advantageous perk in the aa program.

Getting lifetime gold and platinum requires 1 million miles flown or earned (from credit card,phone etc) where in AA program does the lifetime status appear?

Al

Allowing credit card purchases to count to the MM is an interesting twist. I'd love UA to allow that one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I was sitting next to MileTex to and from DUS weekend who is a AA Two Million Miler who is also a UA Million Miler and top tier on both. His comments would be interesting seeing he has current qualifications on both.

For waht it is worth, your ultimate choice really needs to be to a potential route structure basis. For this reason only, internationally CO might not be as strong as UA or AA. I think that you will find that the only BA routes where you cannot accumulate miles are those over the Atlantic, otherwise no problem. Overall the oneworld and American code shares are with fairly good quality airlines. I do not think that the CO/Virgin arrangement will go on for much longer, but at the time of writing if you can route through Gatwick, you will find connecitons far better than traipsing around Heathrow.

NWAPlatinum, if it hasn't been mentioned earlier, don't forget to request an elite status comp to the new airline of your choice.

Best wishes with you search!

withe aa's code share network into europe you now have access to 1st/biz on ib :eck:, sn (62 inch pitch!), ay (new biz class service), tp (:eck: again, what is it about iberian peninsula service?), ei (ok), and jewel of jewels , sr!! and if booked under their aa numbers, all status and class of service bonuses!!!

I've read this w/ interest, because I am considering jumping ship from US to another carrier next year. I made Chairman's Preferred this year on US, and will fly at least that much next year. I almost always fly business, full fare, last minute. I always fly domestic, but want to use awards for internationa - and that's my motivation to look elsewhere since the AA/US thing is falling apart and US isn't that broad internationally.

After that long, boring diatribe, my question is: Do you know of a site I can use to evaluate the actual carrier presence in terms of flights per day to what cities from CLT on UA, AA, CO, etc? I'd be inclined to go AA as of this moment, but I have had very nice experiences on my couple of CO flights...

UA for the international network if that is important to you.

American Airlines would be my suggestion in your case.

This link is to the Travelocity Time Table listing. You'd have to plug in your departure and arrival cities and then see the flight selections. If you want to narrow it down to one, two or three carriers you can. If the link does not work it can be reached by going to the home page www.travelocity.com (http://www.travelocity.com) then "book a flight" then "cancel" then a menu page appears including an item called Time Tables. There may be a shorter route but I don't know it. http://dps1.travelocity.com/timetablerqst.ctl?SEQ=97554248445696511292000&LANG=EN&last_pgd_page=airgrqsttab.pgd

United has my vote!

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I fly therefore I am!

For what you are doing - American.

Thank you all for your kind input!

I think looking at the posts here, you will notice various factors:
- Route network
- Benefits
- Service
- Timing
etc.

The answer is definitely different for different users. For example, if you fly to destinations that UA internationally flies but that AA does not your systemwides are a great value. On the other hand, AA gives VIP2s based on C or F as freakflyer pointed out. AA also has a oneworld award that gets around the limitations of its route network (I'm just flying F to India with 3 days notice on an award in peak Dec without hassles). I do believe that UA settles its labor troubles, AA is a better bet than UA.

Next year I'll be flying over 300 or 400K miles mostly in biz or F. This year I am straddling elite status in OneWorld and Star networks (gives enough flexibility) and plan to add CO and DL next year.

My personal preference based on past experience is AA. I do keep elite status on many but for my family, I stick to AA. Every airline is learning to treat the super elite FF well, but they fall when it comes to ordinary elite. My whole family is AA elite and I must say AA does treat them well even when I am not travelling with them. I cannot say the same about UA. Since you plan to be at the top tier, I guess you do not care. NW and CO are good if your travel overlaps with their network a lot and if you do a lot of Y or biz travel. Oneworld and Star do bring a lot of value to AA and UA that NW/CO/DL do not have. No easy choice for all but for me it was quite easy.

Originally posted by enjoystravel:
(I'm just flying F to India with 3 days notice on an award in peak Dec without hassles).

Could you elaborate on what award this is and how many miles were needed? Normally, award seats in December to India are non-existent unless you burn a couple of 100K miles.

When it comes to travel to India, UA offers a Business class seat for 120K. The nearest you can come on 1W is 150K on BA, which is a PlanAAhead award. UA's two daily flights to India start next April, and there is the talk of a non-stop from ORD via the Polar route. This should mean increased award availablity to India on UA, specially on the Business/First cabins. Also Lufthansa, Austrian, Singapore and Thai all have flights to India which get MilagePlus credit.

AA pales in comparison since awards on BA and Swissair are too expensive. Cathy has reasonably priced awards but only flies to BOM. Worse, it is difficult to earn AA miles on 1W flights to India because of the restrictions on earnings miles on BA (LHR-India do not earn miles on discount economy, apart from US-LHR sections). Swissair also gives no AA miles on discount economy.

I was EXP on AA for a year and am now PLT on AA and 1P on UAL. I have to give AAdvantage my vote for being a better FF. This is based on experience in elite status on both and top tier on one.

The EXP perks are awesome! The service at the EXP desk is wonderful - they really go out of their way to help you out. You also get four VIP2 systemwide upgrades that can be used for up to six segments I beleive (roundtrip anyway - UA's SW's are one way). You get bonus miles on 1W partner flights which you don't on UA (much to my chagrin as I mostly vflew AC this summer). The luggage tags are pretty nice too - I've seen the UA 1K ones at airports and they're pretty cheesy! One of the best perks is that you're always guaranteed that you and up to one companion can get a seat. That's come in handy a couple of times. Last year AA even sent out really nice coffee table book for Christmas,

I must say that UA's fleet and on-board service in F blows AA away. I haven't flow AA much this year but the food in dmoestic F is pretty gross (international F is nothing to write home about either). Back when I used to fly them all the time we were always getting the same old BBQ chicken. On the other hand, I've never seen ice cream sundaes on UA.

I personally choose UA over AA for the following reasons mentioned by richard.:
1. One consideration is AA's equipment, lots of MD-80s with no entertainment systems. Poor widebodies transcon (although I suppose this may change, I don't know if it has already).

6. Channel 9.

On most U.S. routes served by both UA and AA, I find while UA has an in-flight movie, AA doesn't. If you will do some transpacific travel, UA is definitely your choice. AA is weak on the transpacific routes serving only Japan for now. It will add Taiwan next April.

I would also consider CO as an alternative for the reasons mentioned by others on this thread.

Originally posted by PR from DEN:


<snip>

On the other hand, I've never seen ice cream sundaes on UA.



On UA, ice cream sundaes are served on nearly every dinner or lunch transcon in F (either two or three class). Examples include JFK->SFO or LAX, ORD->PDX, IAD->PDX.

Originally posted by svpii:
After that long, boring diatribe, my question is: Do you know of a site I can use to evaluate the actual carrier presence in terms of flights per day to what cities from CLT on UA, AA, CO, etc? I'd be inclined to go AA as of this moment, but I have had very nice experiences on my couple of CO flights...

oag has the most best info, you can access oag free if you (enrol&) log in www.asiamiles.com (http://www.asiamiles.com)

Interesting nobody has mentioned that AA
will allow a companion upgrade if both of
you are on the same itinerary .
Re : MM qualifyer : at AA , 1MM qualifies
you for Gold for life , 2MM Platinum for
life : I dunno about 3MM yet , I am getting
there , so does a colleague .
One note about DL and NW when they changed
the MM qualifying criteria ( to only flown
miles , not bonus , not credit card etc...)
Delta never revoked my MM status there : I
am still a Silver Medallion for life , and
NW revokes the MM status from my colleague
Yeap , after they sent him the gift
catalogue to choose from and sent him his
MM gift !!! Gross !!

Based on your location, I would go with UA. I really only recomend AA if you live in Dallas or Miami, then maybe near LAX or ORD. With the pending merger of UA & US you'll have a lot of options out of the NYC area. I like AA, I'm a paltinum, however I think overall - especially int'l options - UA is a better choice.

I'd give UA an edge for its fleet, especially if you'll usually be in full-fare Y where UA put all its added legroom.

Routes and schedules are what they are for you. My experience with them is irrelevant.

UA's troubles this past year are also irrelevant. It could be anyone next time, even AA (though from here DL looks more likely).

On everything else, AA has my vote. The biggest benefit, to me, is the incredible people who staff the Executive Platinum desk. They're specially interviewed and chosen for the job, they get paid a bit more (their pay still sucks for what they do and what they put up with, which is another topic, but it's more than res agents at other levels get) and their sign-in code to AA's computer lets them do more for a traveler than other agents can do without calling a supervisor. There are few enough of them that you can get to know some by name and develop a good relationship. All things being even close to equal, they'd tip the scales for me.

If you are flying full Y, I would go for an airline that gives you free first class upgrades - including Northwest, TWA or Continental. American gives its EXP members free upgrades when flying on a Y fare. It can get quite expensive otherwise buying the upgrade certs.

As for ice cream sundaes, American does have them on a good number of their flights. However, given the calories involved they are probably worth skipping.