Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Should CX introduce a Premium Economy Class?

I am just wondering whether CX should introduce a premium economy like BA's WTP, because some people in Y paid full fare (especially HK Civil servants)and some others bought the cheap tickets which were very cheap and it's quite unfair to those who paid nearly double the price! Why should the one who paid full fare stays in a seat exactly to people who paid very little for the ticket? What do you guys think?

Doesn't make sense in asia... because one can still get a special fare ticket no matter how late you book. So far only EVA Air has a 4th class. But nobody else does. So I don't think CX will be doing that.. unless it has a larger fleet and a larger aircraft.

Even for HK Civil servants... perhaps you'd like to elaborate on that? The ones I know travel in J.

Doesn't make sense in asia... because one can still get a special fare ticket no matter how late you book. So far only EVA Air has a 4th class. But nobody else does.

What about NH( are Japanese carriers not Asian?), on some long haul flights they offer 4 classes of service!

Perhaps the OP lived in US for too long. Only the flyers who flew in US would try to differentiate themselves from the rest by claiming they have "full fare Y" ticket. Yeah, so what? You bought a ticket, and it's Y class. It doesn't make you any better than the ultra-cheapo-tour ticket. This issue has been discussed before, and I believe the consensus is that "NOT REQUIRED", at least for CX. Why not consider pay the extra and upgrade to a cheap Biz ticket?

I do not like the idea of stripping the F-class, calling their current BIZ a new F-class, and put something new limilar to SingaporeAir's "executive economy" and call it a premium economy, and essentially market it as biz. I admit this is quote from someone, but it just doesn't work for CX.

IMHO, the premium economy is somewhat unnecessary for CX for it's short/medium routes (ie Asia, Australia and Middle East) as you would be most likely spending at most 10 hours on the plane.

As for long-hauls (ie American and Europe), the situation might be different. As the OP said, some paid full Y for their ticket (not me ;), I travel on V class, super-cheapo economy). AFAIK, United has introduced a premium economy on its trans-pacific route, and they are allocated to its FF tiered members and full Y fare paying pax.

But then again, in CX's case, it might a waste of resources perhaps (to reconfigure aircrafts for that particular market and lose flexibility ??)

Well the Full Price Y Class means that person can have more flexibility than the person who purchase a discounted economy class tix. I can't see anything UNFAIR about that? The addtional price you pay are for the flexibility NOT for seat comfort, otherwise they should've gone for J Class!

However I think it will be good if they introduce a Premium economy on Ultra Long Hauls (HKG-JFK and HKG-LHR)

But PLEASE donot remove anymore F Class and replace them with J Class product (like SQ which I think it is a BIG mistake!)

I think for many MPOs they all feel a bit annoyed when CX decided to remove F Class on 10 of its 34C and convert it into the 34D.

Well the Full Price Y Class means that person can have more flexibility than the person who purchase a discounted economy class tix. I can't see anything UNFAIR about that? The addtional price you pay are for the flexibility NOT for seat comfort, otherwise they should've gone for J Class!



Agreed.

But I think for OP, the government is payment for his/her travel, and he/she wants to maximize their comfort. Well, I'm amazed hk gov still offers full Y for civil servants :rolleyes: . But back to the point, I'm afraid CX doesn't work by offering a no-status full Y ticket holder any special treatment. Perhaps you can fly on United/VS/ANA/BA instead, since they will treat u better.

However I think it will be good if they introduce a Premium economy on Ultra Long Hauls (HKG-JFK and HKG-LHR)

The original plan to operate the JFK route with the three ex-SQ A343s had "increased legroom in all classes"... at that stage new F and J were still being rolled out (explaining that bit about extra legroom) but also seems to imply that Y would benefit from a couple of extra inches. But when that route was abruptly cancelled only to be resurrected now, the plan for extra room in Y seems to have been scotched.

But I agree, all this replacing F with a super J has got to stop. :cool:

Front rows in Y on 747 and some Airbus have EmPower. CX thinks those are premiums seats? ;)

Front rows in Y on 747 and some Airbus have EmPower. CX thinks those are premiums seats? ;)

Actually, before we even talk about "premium" Y-class, let's hope that existing Y-class catches up with the alleged "Y-class" they are supposed to have installed.

This (http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/inflight/class/0,,31991,00.html#) is what Y-class should look like, according to CX website:


This is what Y-class actually look much like on most fleet. (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=070148&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDc0Ny00Njc%3D&WdsYXMg=Q2F0aGF5IFBhY2lmaWMgQWlyd2F5cw%3D%3D&QtODMg=U3lkbmV5IC0gS2luZ3Nmb3JkIFNtaXRoIEludGVybmF 0aW9uYWwgKE1hc2NvdCkgKFNZRCAvIFlTU1kp&ERDLTkt=QXVzdHJhbGlhIC0gTmV3IFNvdXRoIFdhbGVz&ktODMp=RmVicnVhcnkgMjksIDIwMDA%3D&BP=1&WNEb25u=Q3JhaWcgTXVycmF5&xsIERvdWdsY=Qi1IVUI%3D&MgTUQtODMgKE=IChjL24yNTg3My85MzcgRGVsIDEwLzkyKSByb 3cgNDYgc2VhdHMgQSxCIGFuZCBDIGluIHRoZSBFY29ub215IGN hYmluLiBUaGVzZSBzZWF0cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBiZWluZyBpbnRyb 2R1Y2VkIGFjcm9zcyB0aGUgZW50aXJlIENYIDc0Ny00MDAgZmx lZXQsIHZlcnkgc2ltaWxhciBpbmRlZWQgdG8gdGhvc2UgZml0d GVkIHRvIFFGIGFpcmNyYWZ0IHdpdGggb25lIGRpZmZlcmVuY2U uLi4uLi4%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzI0Mw%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMC0wMy0wMg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes)

:rolleyes:
Now, me thinks it'd be real long time for CX to consider "premium" Y-class. Only if CX's existing product catches up with what they are actually marketing... :rolleyes:

Now, me thinks it'd be real long time for CX to consider "premium" Y-class. Only if CX's existing product catches up with what they are actually marketing... :rolleyes:

Hahaha... If you click on the link to "Take a look at our Economy Class", and then look at the seats, that does look very spacious, as:

- Only 4 persons in the whole section.
- No one's reclining their seats.
- The aisle is super wide.

Now, tell me which CX flight is this empty! :D

EVA, ANA, I think Korean too right?

Has anyone tried this feature? I haven't travelled in CX's Y Class for such a long time (Actually the last time I travelled in CX's Y Class was back in Kai Tak and before they introduced PTV).

The pictures does look really nice But I am afraid the reality might be.....

I'd recommend the United's approach of Econ+ for full fare and elite pax. This avoids the 4 class problem. With 4 classes, you unnecessarily create a barrier between Econ and business. It makes sense in a 2 class service such as the SQ SIN-LAX or SIN-NYC services (sleeper business, premium economy). The way BA does it, it is a way to prevent economy fares from upgrading to business.

Actually was on Swire's new junk (looks basically like the older 2) 2 months ago and had a drunken (at least on my part) conversation with one revenue manager and I brought this up, he says he doesn't feel CX would need this to sell more seats or whatever as there are not too many full Y fare buyers to worry about or something to that effect.

There are two different models with "Enhanced Economy". United's Y+ is basically extra legroom in the same cabin, same seat and same service, reserved for full Y and frequent fliers. Eva's, BA's and VS's Premium Y is actually a separate cabin, wider seats, different service, with a separate fare structure. It's hard to have a Premium Y cabin but the allocation structure of UA. You can almost argue that the long-haul J class product (in general I mean, for most airlines) has improved so much over the last 15 years that there is a huge differential between the long-haul J and Y services and fares. This would be the situation where putting in a Premium Y cabin with an in-between fare structure makes sense. Of course, airlines have to judge whether they want to deal with 4 different classes on the same plane...... I wonder if United's Y+ can answer those who want to pay slightly more for better service, and who don't want to pay the premium fare for J.

Actually, before we even talk about "premium" Y-class, let's hope that existing Y-class catches up with the alleged "Y-class" they are supposed to have installed.

This (http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/inflight/class/0,,31991,00.html#) is what Y-class should look like, according to CX website:


This is what Y-class actually look much like on most fleet. (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=070148&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDc0Ny00Njc%3D&WdsYXMg=Q2F0aGF5IFBhY2lmaWMgQWlyd2F5cw%3D%3D&QtODMg=U3lkbmV5IC0gS2luZ3Nmb3JkIFNtaXRoIEludGVybmF 0aW9uYWwgKE1hc2NvdCkgKFNZRCAvIFlTU1kp&ERDLTkt=QXVzdHJhbGlhIC0gTmV3IFNvdXRoIFdhbGVz&ktODMp=RmVicnVhcnkgMjksIDIwMDA%3D&BP=1&WNEb25u=Q3JhaWcgTXVycmF5&xsIERvdWdsY=Qi1IVUI%3D&MgTUQtODMgKE=IChjL24yNTg3My85MzcgRGVsIDEwLzkyKSByb 3cgNDYgc2VhdHMgQSxCIGFuZCBDIGluIHRoZSBFY29ub215IGN hYmluLiBUaGVzZSBzZWF0cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBiZWluZyBpbnRyb 2R1Y2VkIGFjcm9zcyB0aGUgZW50aXJlIENYIDc0Ny00MDAgZmx lZXQsIHZlcnkgc2ltaWxhciBpbmRlZWQgdG8gdGhvc2UgZml0d GVkIHRvIFFGIGFpcmNyYWZ0IHdpdGggb25lIGRpZmZlcmVuY2U uLi4uLi4%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzI0Mw%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMC0wMy0wMg%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes)

:rolleyes:
Now, me thinks it'd be real long time for CX to consider "premium" Y-class. Only if CX's existing product catches up with what they are actually marketing... :rolleyes:

But to CX's defence, if you look at this (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=661446&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDc0Ny00Njc%3D&WdsYXMg=Q2F0aGF5IFBhY2lmaWMgQWlyd2F5cw%3D%3D&QtODMg=SW4gRmxpZ2h0&ERDLTkt=TGFvcw%3D%3D&ktODMp=QXVndXN0IDE0LCAyMDA0&BP=0&WNEb25u=RGlja3NvbiBDaGluZw%3D%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=Qi1IT1U%3D&MgTUQtODMgKE=Q2FiaW4gdmlldyBvZiBmbGlnaHQgQ1ggNzEzI HRvIFNpbmdhcG9yZSB2aWEgQmFuZ2tvaywgdGhlIGFyZWEgaXM gc2VhdCBuby4gMzAgdG8gMzcu&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzkxNQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0wOS0xNQ%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=MjQ5MjUvODM0&static=yes&size=L) picture on a.net. It shows a different cabin fitting (note the larger PTV screen), its pretty close to what you see on their own website. But if you remove 2 rows in this cabin (rows 30-37), then you can have the premium economy cabin much like United.

OT, darn, I should have choose my MEL-HKG flight on CX134 (B744 from November) instead on CX 104 (A333), if the screen is 'that' much bigger on the B744. :rolleyes:

coat hanger But to CX's defence, if you look at this (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=661446&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDc0Ny00Njc%3D&WdsYXMg=Q2F0aGF5IFBhY2lmaWMgQWlyd2F5cw%3D%3D&QtODMg=SW4gRmxpZ2h0&ERDLTkt=TGFvcw%3D%3D&ktODMp=QXVndXN0IDE0LCAyMDA0&BP=0&WNEb25u=RGlja3NvbiBDaGluZw%3D%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=Qi1IT1U%3D&MgTUQtODMgKE=Q2FiaW4gdmlldyBvZiBmbGlnaHQgQ1ggNzEzI HRvIFNpbmdhcG9yZSB2aWEgQmFuZ2tvaywgdGhlIGFyZWEgaXM gc2VhdCBuby4gMzAgdG8gMzcu&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MzkxNQ%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0wOS0xNQ%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=MjQ5MjUvODM0&static=yes&size=L) picture on a.net. It shows a different cabin fitting (note the larger PTV screen), its pretty close to what you see on their own website. But if you remove 2 rows in this cabin (rows 30-37), then you can have the premium economy cabin much like United.



Actually, let me tell you what's the difference.

This photo of Airbus 346 (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/487096/L/) is what CX is actually advertising. Note that PTV are actually 6", far bigger than what you saw on 747. If you look at it carefully, do you see a coat hook and a smaller beverage holder on the seat back? Now this is Supposed to be CX's Y class, proudly available on 3 of its fleet :rolleyes: , at least...

What you saw on 744 is an old version. Also note that older version have a armrest TV control facing upward, as seen on the photo. However, the newer version are equipped with the remote control type of audio/tv control, similar to what's offered in J class.

As to stripping two rows from 30-37 idea, I don't think it's feasible. That still leaves 60 seats of whatever "enhanced" or "premium" Y. that's 20 less revenue for CX. All to satisfy the full Y/elite pax? I doubt so... However, on 74J, getting rid of 1 row from rows 36-38 might be a sound idea. 20 Y+ seat for elite pax? sounds juicy to me.

I think, strategically, the introduction of Y+ is prompted by not enough C traffic. It has nothing to do with full Y fare considerations. Cathay having some of the highest C loads in the industry, I doubt that Y+ makes sense.

fakecd, thank you very much for pointing out the difference between the two. Now I realised the difference between the A346 Y class and the photo I found on a.net and what is shown on the CX website.

Given I haven't flown CX for a while, I am very curious on their cabin layout and as you said, "Supposed to be CX's Y class, proudly available on 3 of its fleet , at least...".

Re the Premium Economy issue (re seating and qualificatio of pax), I am just running along with the United idea. True on the point about 60 odd seats on the 744, thats just too much, my idea would be about 20 seats or so.

Given I haven't flown CX for a while, I am very curious on their cabin layout and as you said, "Supposed to be CX's Y class, proudly available on 3 of its fleet , at least...".

Ok, I don't know where the "3 fleet" bit came from (and I'm too lazy to go hunt on CX's website to see if it's posted, or whether it's inside knowledge, or whether the number was sarcastically pulled from thin air :p ) but taking it to be true, I'm guessing it refers to the new Y seats on three of the 34Ds (HXC, HXF and HXH were plundered for Y seats to use on the other 7 34Ds, thus they technically should have the newest Y seats across the CX fleet...)

I think as fakecd referred to in his post (and I subsequently referred to). What he meant were the 'new Y seats with the coat hangers and larger PTV' are actually on the A346 only AFAIK, while I am referring to an older style B744 seats (see my post and accompanying photo). So, perhaps you are right, maybe the A346 AND the three A34D you referred to.... Anyone has more details (perhaps I should research to find out more as well :) )?

Ok, I don't know where the "3 fleet" bit came from (and I'm too lazy to go hunt on CX's website to see if it's posted, or whether it's inside knowledge, or whether the number was sarcastically pulled from thin air :p ) but taking it to be true, I'm guessing it refers to the new Y seats on three of the 34Ds (HXC, HXF and HXH were plundered for Y seats to use on the other 7 34Ds, thus they technically should have the newest Y seats across the CX fleet...)

Actually, I just sarcastically pulled from thin air :D

I do not know exactly which fleet has them, but i'm certain minimum of 3 A346 would have them. that's where i got my magical three. My view are same as RickyT's.... 3 here and 3 there? (still doesn't add up to # of fleet CX deploys :p )