US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - WSJ Reports that *A and UA WILL Honor Award Tix if US Ceases Operation

In response to the issue of DM miles used for other carriers, here's what today's Wall Street Journal "Middle Seat" column has to say:

"If you buy a ticket on United, booking United flight numbers and United airplanes, you should be fine. The currency you bought the ticket with happens to have been US Airways miles. But once you have a ticket on United, United will honor it regardless of US Airways' status. US Airways says the same holds for all its Star Alliance partners -- tickets bought with frequent-flier miles will be honored by Lufthansa and other partner airlines."

I guess that I'd feel a little more comfortable if the information was attributed to the Star Alliance rather than US.

I'm not sure whether the link will work, but here it is:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB109536942864520099-Ihjg4NglaB3nJyra32HbqyIm4,00.html

Interesting indeed. I just shot him an email asking who at US Airways made the statement that DM award tickets on United and *A partners would be honored. I'll let you know what I hear.

Interesting indeed. I just shot him an email asking who at US Airways made the statement that DM award tickets on United and *A partners would be honored. I'll let you know what I hear.

Thanks for doing this. Yet another article stating the tickets will be honored without naming any sources. The article attributes this to "US Airways", but no one in particular. Well gee, do you really think someone at US is going to state that the tickets won't be honored? :rolleyes:

Interesting indeed. I just shot him an email asking who at US Airways made the statement that DM award tickets on United and *A partners would be honored. I'll let you know what I hear.

I did the same thing and asked whether he contacted *A, LH, or UA for THEIR position.

Likewise, I'll post what I hear.

US Airways can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. This isn't their decision. Unless and until the other Star Alliance airlines make an official statement regarding this, I won't believe it.

Although I understand the scepticism expressed here, the evidence is starting to mount up. It would be quite unusual for a USAir PR flack to be willing to make such a statement for thw WSJ without feeling pretty confident about the basis. Additionally, people like Randy have been expressing the same opinion for weeks now and he is a reliable source in my opinion. Finally, if the news today that SQ is no longer permitiing the issuance of *A award tickets from US is accurate, that seems a pretty convincing argument that they think they would have to honor them once issued. If they didn't intend to honor the tickets in the event of a US liquidation, what would be the possible point of refusing to allow them to be issued at this point? Clearly, they think that allowing the ticket to be issued binds them. I'm finally convinced.

I wonder if Tilton knows that UA is going to honor US award tickets??? :confused:

Finally, if the news today that SQ is no longer permitiing the issuance of *A award tickets from US is accurate, that seems a pretty convincing argument that they think they would have to honor them once issued. If they didn't intend to honor the tickets in the event of a US liquidation, what would be the possible point of refusing to allow them to be issued at this point? Clearly, they think that allowing the ticket to be issued binds them. I'm finally convinced.

Not necessarily. SQ may just want to avoid complaints directed at them if they disallow pax, also avoid having to chase up the $$$ (and probably losing money in the process). Lastly, SQ doesnt particularly need award tix from US to fill their planes and so would rather sell the tix (or award) to someone else where there is no potential loss of $$ and hassle involved.

I too am not completely convinced by this statement. The WSJ is the type of organization that could have possibly gotten a statement from *Alliance in addition to US. That would of course be if the media actually did their jobs, but I digress. For those arguing that there is no way that say UA will honor the tickets, I think they are looking at it the wrong way. They are viewing it as a loss of the retail value of the ticket. This isnt remotely true. The reality is that if UA honors a ticket from US, they are more than likely simply not upgrading a UA premier or premier exec (possibly a 1K but that is doubtful) if it is a premium ticket. If it is coach they are letting someone in the more than likely otherwise empty seat. UA sells premium seats but their inventory control is good enough in my opinion that they would not have had a saver seat (that is what * awards are) if they were cutting into seats that would likely be sold. So they are potentially winning a new customer for the cost of onboard service and getting goodwill from that customer, their friends who they will tell that UA helped them out and the media. That seems like a no brainer to me.

I too am not at all convinced by this statement.

I think that time will prove it to be dead WRONG.


Just my opinion....

Opinions are okay, to some extent they are all we have, but what is your thought process that is leading to these views?

Whether or not you believe that the *A partners will honor a reservation that was "purchased" by redeeming US miles, do you think it is more likely that *A airlines will honor a paper ticket than an e-ticket? I've got award tix to SYD, flying there on UAL metal and returning from CHC on ANZ. When I recently changed the reservation to include ANZ in the itinerary, I was told that I'd have to pay $50 and get a paper ticket issued. I was planning to wait to do that until November, when my next trip is scheduled, but if the consensus is that having a paper ticket in hand will give me a little bit of insurance I'll drive out to the airport tomorrow.

There was a good article (posted here some time ago) which basically pointed out that all of the airlines have debits and credits going back and forth for travel provided to each other's customers. As a result, *A carriers will likely agree to transport US customers even in the event of liquidation as they will ultimately need to settle their inter-company balances in the bankruptcy proceeding.

Think about it: if your choice is between paying cash (not much on hand these days) to the bankruptcy trustee or providing travel in otherwise empty coach seats to US customers and then debiting the value of that travel against your balance, what would you do? Moreover, I have little doubt that the *A carriers will assign some ridiculous value to the seats used by US customers, i.e. why not use full Y fares since they are essentially providing walkup bookings?

That being said, nothing is guaranteed, so I have just cashed in my remaining miles for an October trip on UA.

Whether or not you believe that the *A partners will honor a reservation that was "purchased" by redeeming US miles, do you think it is more likely that *A airlines will honor a paper ticket than an e-ticket? I've got award tix to SYD, flying there on UAL metal and returning from CHC on ANZ. When I recently changed the reservation to include ANZ in the itinerary, I was told that I'd have to pay $50 and get a paper ticket issued. I was planning to wait to do that until November, when my next trip is scheduled, but if the consensus is that having a paper ticket in hand will give me a little bit of insurance I'll drive out to the airport tomorrow.

IMHO, a paper ticket will be as worthless as an electronic one. It won't be worth the paper it's printed on!

Maybe WSJ got the data from the same guy who cooked up Bush's National Guard record! :D

Evidently it is a LAW that if you are already in transit, and your airline ceases operation, that other US flag airlines must honor your ticket to get you home. I do not believe that this legislation encompasses a trip BEFORE you depart on the first leg.

As has been stated over and over......nobody really knows. You can burn miles on Etix, paper tix or buy fire sale tickets.......but you're taking a risk. I'd be very surprised (especially on an award ticket) that *A carriers would honor an award ticket bought with FF miles from a defunct airline. :confused:

Whether or not you believe that the *A partners will honor a reservation that was "purchased" by redeeming US miles, do you think it is more likely that *A airlines will honor a paper ticket than an e-ticket? I've got award tix to SYD, flying there on UAL metal and returning from CHC on ANZ. When I recently changed the reservation to include ANZ in the itinerary, I was told that I'd have to pay $50 and get a paper ticket issued. I was planning to wait to do that until November, when my next trip is scheduled, but if the consensus is that having a paper ticket in hand will give me a little bit of insurance I'll drive out to the airport tomorrow.


For clarification, the fee is not for the paper ticket, it is because you are changing your routing.

The paper ticket fee (also $50) only applies when electronic ticketing in available, yet you opt for a paper ticket. There is no paper ticket fee if electronic ticketing is unavailable on the carrier you wish to travel. In this case, the only option is paper tickets, and as such, there is no fee.

In your case, for travel on Air New Zealand, the only option is paper tickets, so any itinerary including at least one segment on NZ will require paper tickets for the entire journey, and there will be no fee for the paper tickets.

It would be quite unusual for a USAir PR flack to be willing to make such a statement for thw WSJ without feeling pretty confident about the basis.

Unusual for a PR flak to say positive things about his company and try to improve confidence in the company/product even if it's not completely true?

Was there supposed to be a ;) after that sentence?

:)

dupe (FT is really flaky today)

I too wrote to the author of the article, asking for specifics on who provided the information that *A awards would be honored, whether he had confirmed the claims from US (not exactly an unbiased source) with *A, SQ, UA, etc. (i.e. those that would actually honor the tickets), etc.

No one else has posted that they received a reply, but I did receive one within minutes. I'm not a big fan of posting private e-mails (I noted I was on FT, but didn't ask for permission to post his reply) so I'll summarize the response:

paraphrasing - "No one knows, do whatever you are comfortable doing, I recall Ansett awards being honored but there are no gaurantees."

Not exactly the "here is the source, here's who I confirmed it with" response I was hoping for. As HPTunco mentioned, it sounds like "Bush memo" journalistic efforts. As a I loyal reader, I expect more from the Journal.

I'll file this one under "media repeating PR flak statments" with an approriate level of credibility.

:(

deleted - double post

My understanding is that The Aviation and Transportation Security Act requires US carriers to take over the tickets of anyone who is holding a ticket from a defunct carrier (although it's not clear what happens if the ticket was purchased with miles). I believe they can charge a $25 fee. Unfortunately, this is set to expire in November. Does anyone know whether this will expire, and how this will impact those who are holding tickets with USair?

My understanding is that The Aviation and Transportation Security Act requires US carriers to take over the tickets of anyone who is holding a ticket from a defunct carrier (although it's not clear what happens if the ticket was purchased with miles). I believe they can charge a $25 fee. Unfortunately, this is set to expire in November. Does anyone know whether this will expire, and how this will impact those who are holding tickets with USair?

It is expiring, and most of us are pretty certain that it does not cover award tickets.

Nobody Knows (tm)

My understanding is that The Aviation and Transportation Security Act requires US carriers to take over the tickets of anyone who is holding a ticket from a defunct carrier (although it's not clear what happens if the ticket was purchased with miles). I believe they can charge a $25 fee. Unfortunately, this is set to expire in November. Does anyone know whether this will expire, and how this will impact those who are holding tickets with USair?

It expires on November 19th. Here is some more info from Smarterliving:

"Many travelers are vaguely aware of government rules mandating the protection of passengers stranded by airline break-ups. What they are thinking of is the Aviation and Transportation Security Act (ATSA), passed by Congress in 2001, in the days following 9/11. Among the Act's provisions is Section 145, which specifically directs U.S. airlines to assist passengers ticketed on insolvent carriers to the best of their ability.

Unfortunately for those concerned about US Airways' prospects, the ATSA expires on November 19, and there's no indication that Congress will extend it. And in any case, Congress never clarified whether Section 145 applied to frequent flier awards.

So there's no way to insure award trips, and there isn't likely to be any protection afforded by the government."

http://www.smarterliving.com/advice/ffrq/advice.php?id=7311&ctid=i7311c35p198

I'm reading all this with the same interest many are. But what I don't really have a feel for are genuine alternatives to booking award travel on a * partner to at least have a chance they have value later.

If I don't do that, I can either book immediate travel for every cousin I have to burn all my miles, or risk losing the altogether if US liquidates.

Is there a credible alternative to mitigating the risk of leaving the miles in my US acct?

And isn't travel out of CLT going to be lovely if the worst happens.. :(

I'm reading all this with the same interest many are. But what I don't really have a feel for are genuine alternatives to booking award travel on a * partner to at least have a chance they have value later.

If I don't do that, I can either book immediate travel for every cousin I have to burn all my miles, or risk losing the altogether if US liquidates.

Is there a credible alternative to mitigating the risk of leaving the miles in my US acct?

And isn't travel out of CLT going to be lovely if the worst happens.. :(
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The only other option is to do the transfer out of DM using something like points.com.

But the exchange rates (unless they have some kind of special rate going on) are pretty miserable. Like 1000 DM will get you maybe 100 AA miles.

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The only other option is to do the transfer out of DM using something like points.com.

But the exchange rates (unless they have some kind of special rate going on) are pretty miserable. Like 1000 DM will get you maybe 100 AA miles.

Precisely. People should have known what the options were and made a choice. I certainly did. I booked 360,000 miles worth of tickets on UA. Maybe they will be good, maybe not. The alternative was leaving them sit, which seemed a lot riskier or transfering through points.com. That would have given me about 36,000 miles on another carrier. I dont need 36,000 on another carrier. I can do that in a weekend or two. I threw the dice and come next spring, or possibly before if a definitive announcement is made by someone in authority, Ill know for sure. In the meantime this is rather pointless speculation. Other words came to mind but there may be TOS issues.