Qantas Frequent Flyer - Sydney Weather Havoc

http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10682567%255E1702,00.html]SYDNEY Airport was forced to close for more than two hours last night after wild weather dumped ice on its runways. Airservices Australia said international flights were delayed and domestic services were diverted as hail storms lashed the city. The airport was closed from 9.40pm (AEST) until just after midnight.

According to the Brisbane morning radio news, several hundered people were diverted to Brisbane as SYD was closed, and due to the late arrivals only three staff were on hand at Brisbane airport and had to open up for several diverted flights. No accommodation could be arranged to pillows and blankets were handed out.

FOG caused delays at Melbourne Airport (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10682795%255E1702,00.html) early today and a long-haul Qantas flight was diverted to Sydney.

Airport spokesman Brooke Lord said fog shrouded the airport between 6.50am (AEST) and 9.15am, causing delays of up to 15 minutes for domestic and international flights.
Only major delay seems to be QF94 being diverted to SYD.

Arriving into SYD yesterday afternoon we were put into a holding pattern while waiting for a storm to pass. On arrival the tarmac was closed so no aircraft could depart, meaning 11 aircraft at this point were waiting for gates. It also meant those flights that were loading had bags left out in the rain.

The weather made for a fun flight out of SYD last night. Departing to MEL the turbulance from the passing weather meant that the seatbelt sign was kept on or longer than usual. It was interesting watching the lightening getting closer and closer as we climbed. This coupled with some of the same into MEL meant that it certainly was a struggle for the crew to prepare and serve the hot meals in time.

Cheers

I was on BA 16 yesterday, which was delayed departing about 50 minutes due to the first storm that hit just before 4 PM. Once airborne, there wasn't much turbulence despite the wicked looking weather. I'm glad I didn't take QF 31, as I normally do.

There was a bit of turbulence at 13:30 when I arrived in from Melbourne on QF187 but nothing causing delays. The hail et al nicely held off till after I had got home

Dave

I flew up from MEL - SYD on QF10 this morning and there wasnt any sign of fog when I left at 6.30am.

Arriving at SYD, I overheard some disgruntled passengers that had been turned back to MEL last night. Apparently it took QF over two hours to process overnight accomodation for all the pax who were then told to ring the 1300 number to rebook flights this morning. Not surprisingly, shortly after QF made a PA announcement that the 1300 number was suffering extreme congestion and asked pax to be patient!

Arriving at SYD, I overheard some disgruntled passengers that had been turned back to MEL last night. Apparently it took QF over two hours to process overnight accomodation for all the pax who were then told to ring the 1300 number to rebook flights this morning. Not surprisingly, shortly after QF made a PA announcement that the 1300 number was suffering extreme congestion and asked pax to be patient!
They should be glad they overnighted in MEL and actually got accommodation. Those that ended up in Brisbane (and I believe it included at least one MEL-SYD flight), were handed pillows and blankets as they could not arrange accommodation after midnight for the necessary numbers of diverted passengers.

I picked a friend up from BNE last night who was on the 9:15pm flight out of SYD (vermin).. after all the delays they arrived in BNE at 2am

I picked a friend up from BNE last night who was on the 9:15pm flight out of SYD (vermin).. after all the delays they arrived in BNE at 2am
So that implies they were allowed to depart SYD after the curfew time of 11pm??? I would have expected they curfew would still have been in force and they would be stuck in SYD until the following day. SO did they relax the curfew to get the flights out? My understanding is that only the Federal Transport Minister can provide the dispensation needed to operate outside the curfew.

I was on QF490 MEL-SYD which was diverted to BNE. Initially we were told that we would have to stay overnight in the terminal, but then after some frantic organising on QF's behalf, were offered accomodation at the Sheraton and the 'first available' flight to SYD in the morning which happened to be QF26 at 9.45am. Buses were also organised to transport everyone there and back.

Apparently there were 6 or 7 flights that landed at BNE, but only two from what I could see were QF. Both 767s, I'm guessing both MEL-SYD.

Whilst waiting to be re-booked by the QF staff (poor guys, they did a fantastic job under pressure), I called QF phone sales and got onto the 7.30 flight, but was waitlisted for the 6am, 6.30 and 7am flights. Figuring by the time we got to the Sheraton would be at the earliest 2am, then back by 5am to try and get on the earlier flights, I elected to stay at the airport.

In the end, I managed to get on the 6.30am, which was still impacted by delays, and took off closer to 7.30am! Still, Kudos to QF, they handled a pretty awful situation – something entirely beyond their control – quite well.

Well, after reading everybody's stories, I'm glad I haven't been flying lately...gee, the electrical/thunderstorms were bad enough on Saturday in BNE(when it hit at 2.30pm, I was at a wedding, just as the bride waited outside the Church...with that she walked up the aisle much quicker - it made her be on time too!!).

Then Sunday, while I was at work (the life of a financial planner with deadlines), this huge electrical/thunderstorm hit around 4.30pm and stopped Mrs QF WP see The Whitlams on stage at New Farm Park. Even our dog was cowering and whimpering all afternoon apparently...

A PERSYD 332 QF566 from memory divverted to BNE but went to the International as no room at Domestic. It was a bugger of a night!

I wonder why MEL-SYD flights were diverted to BNE when SYD was affected by bad waether? MEL is not constrained by curfew, so available 24 hours and is similar distance to fly. And I would have expected that a number (perhaps 50%) of passengers would have originated in MEL and would choose to go home instead of requiring accommodation, while it is fair to assume that none of the MEL-SYD pax were destined for, or originated in BNE and hence would all require accommodation.

For the fab photos of Sydney Harbour lightshow

Wow I slept through the storms late sunday. woke to a snowy house and yard about 10pm.

Too much Moet!

I wonder why MEL-SYD flights were diverted to BNE when SYD was affected by bad waether? .

Maybe going on weather patterns a BNE-SYD return than a MEL-SYD return would be quicker

And I would have expected that a number (perhaps 50%) of passengers would have originated in MEL and would choose to go home instead of requiring accommodation

Were any actually accom'd ? I thought all pax's got off the ground that night.

So that implies they were allowed to depart SYD after the curfew time of 11pm??? I would have expected they curfew would still have been in force and they would be stuck in SYD until the following day. SO did they relax the curfew to get the flights out? My understanding is that only the Federal Transport Minister can provide the dispensation needed to operate outside the curfew.

I thought that the Officer In Charge of Traffic Control Australia had that power as well in non-terror reasoning (eg weather related delays)

Were any actually accom'd ? I thought all pax's got off the ground that night.
Some went to the Sheraton for a few hours! But at the time the decision to divert was made, knowledge of hotel room availability (or otherwise) would not be available.

I thought that the Officer In Charge of Traffic Control Australia had that power as well in non-terror reasoning (eg weather related delays)
Perhaps that is the case. We discussed in another forum a while back following a diverted BNE-SYD flight that would have missed the curfew by less than 1 minute (and yes, we did return to Brisbane that night), the information provided by those in the knowledge (including a SYD ATC staffer) was that the only dispensation was from the Minister or his delegate. Perhaps the officer you reference has the Minister's ongoing delegated authority for use in such circumstances??

It was also noted that ATC does not deny the landing/takeoff request. They just inform the captain that proceding to land/take-off after the curfew will result in a substantial fine. If the captain chooses to continue, ATC will provide all the usual assistance, including clearence to land/depart.

It was also noted that ATC does not deny the landing/takeoff request. They just inform the captain that proceding to land/take-off after the curfew will result in a substantial fine. If the captain chooses to continue, ATC will provide all the usual assistance, including clearence to land/depart.

Interesting - I wasn't aware. Maybe then, it was QF's idea to make the routes. Depending on what rates the Hotels were going to offer them, it may have been financially viable to breach conditions and take off/land after curfew.

Think about it, 250 people on a plane, say 220 rooms (it is believeable that a few couples would be travelling) at the Sheraton On The Park.

Going on tonights rates found at starwood.com, 220 x $262 per/night = $57640.

Transport may cost $200 to run the busses to and from the terminal.

Yes, I know that QF would have an arrangement with Sheraton to provide accommodation cheaper, but even if it was half price, $30,000 per plane that is delayed may make it worth breaching the curfew.

Does anyone know what the curfew breach costs are??

Going on tonights rates found at starwood.com, 220 x $262 per/night = $57640.

Transport may cost $200 to run the busses to and from the terminal.

Yes, I know that QF would have an arrangement with Sheraton to provide accommodation cheaper, but even if it was half price, $30,000 per plane that is delayed may make it worth breaching the curfew.

Does anyone know what the curfew breach costs are??
I believe when the curfew was first introduced, it was around the $25,000 mark. There was a situation where an airline decided to break the curfew and penalty. Soon after, the penalty was increased by an order of magnitude. It is now considerably higher (like 10 times) the cost of accommodating a 747 worth of passengers overnight.

Edited to add this quote from a news group, originally posted by a very well respected airline captain back in 2001:
A couple of years ago, one of the Asian airlines (Singair, I think) decided
that they would rather pay the fine, instead of bearing the costs of the
overnight. At the time the fine was around $25,000, which was a pretty small
fraction of what an overnight will cost. I believe busting the curfew now
costs around $250,000.

Still, it is interesting how it is done. ATC will issue you with
landing/takeoff clearances. It seems to me, that if the curfew is in force,
then aircraft affected by it shouldn't be issued a clearance at all.

I believe when the curfew was first introduced, it was around the $25,000 mark. There was a situation where an airline decided to break the curfew and penalty. Soon after, the penalty was increased by an order of magnitude. It is now considerably higher (like 10 times) the cost of accommodating a 747 worth of passengers overnight.

Edited to add this quote from a news group, originally posted by a very well respected airline captain back in 2001:

"Still, it is interesting how it is done. ATC will issue you with
landing/takeoff clearances. It seems to me, that if the curfew is in force,
then aircraft affected by it shouldn't be issued a clearance at all."


Ahh, was that Sandy or JB who wrote that?

My thoughts are that ATC is there purely for operational reasons. If there is no operation reason to deny the clearance, then they should not do so.

The curfew on the other hand is a political issue, and one which ATC should not become involved with, apart from advising of the consequences should the captain decide to land.

As for the storms, QF WP emailled some pics to a few of us of the actual storm. For those who haven't received them, the first is located at http://members.westnet.com.au/thadocta/sydstrm1.jpg - there are five in all, just change the number in the file name (sydstrm2.jpg, sydstrm3.jpg and so on).

Dave

Actually, it makes you wonder why Vermin hasn't seen this as a marketting opportunity. Rather than divert or cancel a flight, why not just land a few minutes late during the curfew and incur the fine?

Imagine it, "We will get you there no matter what the cost, even if it means we will run the flight at a loss!"

Sure, pure hyperbole, but Vermin are not unknown to do that...

Dave

Ahh, was that Sandy or JB who wrote that?
It was JB. Both have granted me flight deck landings in their office in the last (LAX, MEL and AKL). But alas, now that is no longer allowed :( .

Got sent a series of scenic pictures of Sydney with ice (http://members.aol.com/globaliser/sydney.pps) today (454 KB PowerPoint slideshow). I suppose you Sydneysiders probably don't want reminding, but some of those images were a bit of a novelty for me.