US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Anatomy of a TransAtlantic Upgrade

I book a trip to the UK on short notice. Checking seat maps (they can block inventory view, but not other people's search engines), I find a flight with over 20 available (unassigned) seats in Envoy. Since I'm well within my CP window for upgrade, I ask how it looks. Nothing available, I am told, but we'll waitlist you, and it might clear. Just about 48 hours out, I ask again. Still no dice. I pull a seat map, and it now shows 31 unassigned seats in Envoy. Now, I get curious, and start looking around the net. We're talking a $7000 retail seat. First, I check for special offers to hemophiliacs, figuring these guys are smart enought to market their strengths. What better, than to remind people afraid of cutting themselves that we don't use any glass onboard. Blind alley. Nothing. Then I check 1stAir.net. These guys emailed me a few weeks ago, telling me I can get Envoy at up to 60% off. I check. They're in the low $3000's for the 7 grand ticket. I go into Expedia. Aha..drive to Miami and it drops to $2600 over there. And then it dawns on me. In this Bazaar they are running, they will try to get anything for those seats before they go to a high miler. So hold them open until the last minute. My guess is the available inventory is going up as perhaps some consolidators are releasing seats back. But that's OK, since we can all do it at the airport on date of travel. With draconian reductions in staff at those places, we need to give what's left even more to do. And those happy folks at the port...hey, they will be delighted to see us, and will really work to see we get taken care of. I realize we are all mooches, and don't pay enough, but if all things were equal, many of us would take the nearest nonstop, and save about 4 hours. 31 open seats, and no upgrades in advance? Is that really necessary?

Is it still true that they will not clear your domestic portion until the day of departure if your TA has not cleared yet?

It was a double whammy.

Is it still true that they will not clear your domestic portion until the day of departure if your TA has not cleared yet?

It was a double whammy.

I don't think so. I called the other day to be put on the waiting list for a 30K upgrade and the website shows that my domestic portion has been upgraded although I am not within my window.

Domestic was available, and cleared immediately because I was within the window. No advance upgrade with 31 open, and the latest game of demanding double the normal miles to clear award space every time you need a free ticket because "it's so tight", is beginning to strain the credibility of the entire DM program.

Is it still true that they will not clear your domestic portion until the day of departure if your TA has not cleared yet?

It was a double whammy.

What used to happen is that if you weren't cleared for envoy and were taking a connecting flight to get to PIT, CLT, or PHL for your overseas flight, you would get a cert pulled for the domestic leg. This happened to me but I then requested that an e-upgrade cert be placed into my account after successfully upgrading to envoy.

Deelmakur,

As we witnessed with the virtual elimination of advance upgrades in the E inventory, they are now applying to international. The demand side of the equation for premium seats is probably still the same as it ever was in recent times. We'll still get upgraded but have to do the dance at the gate, pending no inundation of overbooks.

I was not at RF, but the pleas of ignorance in the severe reduction of advance upgrade inventory strike me as either grossly uninformed or disingenuous. There is something going on here folks. I realize that we all held hands and sang kum ba ya at RF, but these guys are playing a far sneakier and more insidious game with DM than they have since black tuesday.

And this is WITHOUT the eventual reduction of envoy seats in the A330. Wait till you see how nasty that gets with no inventory help at all.

NEO, I agree. The only satisfaction is that they will have to ply their trade elsewhere, in short order. Unfortunately, the management types seem to find work elsewhere, while the rank and file cut lawns, or fly the local Trafficopter. I'm signing off on this one. I've had a snootful.

Just to be clear. I flew today PHL to MAD and they had the glass and silverware.

T

Yes we did all hold hands and sing in a manner of speaking.

The damage done by "Black Tuesday" is unfathomable. Trust in marriage and in business is VERY tough to regain once it is lost. That is why off line in private I have kept a steady drumbeat of "Play it Straight".

Speed and ease of upgrade is part of the solution to some of their internal upgrade policy issues. To me right now the overiding factor regardless of well meaning intentions of the DM program managers is to AVOID ANY appearance of impropriety or customer unfriendly moves of ANY kind. If US is ultimately successful in getting past this latest hurdle, then going forward catering to both their regular and high yield customer (that's us) should be a top priority, DM coupled with Star Alliance and reasonable fares is a powerful combination that right now no other airline can offer.

But if the folks like us don't totally trust US management as being totally open and above board they will a much more difficult time in a competitive complex business environment.

Bob,

Having an official answer on this topic would be very useful. Since upgrading is one of the key benefits of elite status on US, this is somewhat of a thorn in the side of those folks like us that depend on REASONABLE inventory allocations. Having pleas of ignorance or claims of no changes to the system(when there have been drastic alterations) does not reinforce TRUST.

Frankly, I don't care if they hold 90% of the F Class seats until 24 to 36 hours before departure--but they should not hold nearly all of them for gate release--that simply is not reflective of the current market for premium travel and becomes rather punitive for loyal elites.

Bob,

Having an official answer on this topic would be very useful. Since upgrading is one of the key benefits of elite status on US, this is somewhat of a thorn in the side of those folks like us that depend on REASONABLE inventory allocations. Having pleas of ignorance or claims of no changes to the system(when there have been drastic alterations) does not reinforce TRUST.

Frankly, I don't care if they hold 90% of the F Class seats until 24 to 36 hours before departure--but they should not hold nearly all of them for gate release--that simply is not reflective of the current market for premium travel and becomes rather punitive for loyal elites.

We are on it OK? We have our ace handling this issue (definately not me as my full understanding is unclear) and I assure you of follow-up. Like you, I'm not as concerned over specifics as I am KNOWING what the rules of engagement are. That has been my BEEF with all airlines.

Bob,

Having an official answer on this topic would be very useful. Since upgrading is one of the key benefits of elite status on US, this is somewhat of a thorn in the side of those folks like us that depend on REASONABLE inventory allocations. Having pleas of ignorance or claims of no changes to the system(when there have been drastic alterations) does not reinforce TRUST.



Neo,

Please let me expand on Bob's answers.

The Monday after RF04, there was a flurry of e-mails to answer questions and to clarify concerns that were raised on the 7th. That information allowed the summary to be as accurate as possible.

There were some issues for which more time was requested to research the issues. We know that they have had a few other priorities in the past two weeks. Some of those were planned (FLL as a focus city, GoFare announcements); some were unplanned (Bronner v Lakefield in the press, debt downgrade).

We're now asking for answers to the unresolved questions and will let everyone know when we hear something.

I'm confused. In the past 4 or 5 years I have averaged 10 to 12 trans-Atlantic trips on US each year. I would estimate that 90% of the time I have been able to get a confirmed upgrade at the 3 day window. You just need to ask the international reservation agent to check with inventory control. In fact, in over half the case the reservation agent will voluntarily check with inventory control so you don't even have to ask. My last trip was two weeks ago and this held true then as it has for years. Is this thread of messages implying that something has changed in either the ability (i.e., rules) or the willingness of US to confirm upgrades?

Within the last few months there has been one or more directives for agents NOT to call inventory. This was spawned by numerous elites demanding that they call inventory to release upgrades for their CLT-GSO domestic flights. If you do a search for inventory in the forum you will find those threads. I am not saying that they won't EVER call inventory--your chances of getting those special favors have shrunk dramatically though.

But the real issue here is not whether or not we need to harass agents to call inventory--we need US to have reasonable advance release of unsold and soon to be empty premium seats.


I'm confused. In the past 4 or 5 years I have averaged 10 to 12 trans-Atlantic trips on US each year. I would estimate that 90% of the time I have been able to get a confirmed upgrade at the 3 day window. You just need to ask the international reservation agent to check with inventory control. In fact, in over half the case the reservation agent will voluntarily check with inventory control so you don't even have to ask. My last trip was two weeks ago and this held true then as it has for years. Is this thread of messages implying that something has changed in either the ability (i.e., rules) or the willingness of US to confirm upgrades?

Within the last few months there has been one or more directives for agents NOT to call inventory. This was spawned by numerous elites demanding that they call inventory to release upgrades for their CLT-GSO domestic flights. If you do a search for inventory in the forum you will find those threads. I am not saying that they won't EVER call inventory--your chances of getting those special favors have shrunk dramatically though.

But the real issue here is not whether or not we need to harass agents to call inventory--we need US to have reasonable advance release of unsold and soon to be empty premium seats.

I don't think the policy has changed for international flights as someone has checked with DM. I will soon find out for myself next month.

I started this thread, so I'll end my participation by telling you that after calling this morning, and asking the agent if he thought anything might open, given the seat map showed 31 unassigned Envoy seats CLT-LGW, and 24 on the return, later in the week, he responded, "we think we can sell them", and pretty much told me not to waste time calling. I was on a thousand dollar bereavement fare, having to attend a funeral in London, not a trip I especially want to make. The fare is refundable, so I called Continental, where I'm Platinum, and asked about award seats. Bingo. Out tomorrow, and back Thursday. 100K miles for BF, with a 50 buck expedite fee. No other cash charges, and they couldn't have been nicer. Called US (where the CP identifier line hasn't been reading DM number inputs all morning, causing big delays), cancelled, and that's it. Sure, I probably would have cleared,but as has been said in an earlier post, you can't trust these guys. For all we know, they are holding the seats in anticipation of cancelling the flight, or some other flight, in which case they will be rerouting folks. Whatever, I still cannot fathom how, with the trouble they have, and the kind of crap traffic they are selling to fill seats, they have time to not just refuse to help their better customers, but to do what appears to be things to make it tougher for them. If the problem is we have been putting too much stress on a limited work force in the Inventory Dept., how do you help that by sending 30 people to the gate, where the agent force has been really gutted? I'll try not to drop the glass with my drink tomorrow night, guys.

I just returned from London this afternoon. I called the CP line 3 days out on both the outgoing and return flights and in both cases they volunteered to call inventory control and cleared the upgrades for me.

I'll admit my experience is limited to three trans Atlantic trips, but each time it's been a wait at the gate. First time as a GP, next two as CP, all times with PULENTY of room in envoy for me and Mrs. Dingo. What I know is that their method of processing upgrades only leads to pissed off customers. On my last trip to Paris, there was literally yelling and screaming b/c the gate agents couldn't process an upgrade for a jerk of a punk passenger and his high maintenance girlfriend (Hmmmm, wonder how I feel about them!). Most of us can see the seats open and know our odds and when it is a drop dead no brainer. By keeping 30 seats open b/c they might sell for between $2k and $7k is insane management. The upgrades to Europe are about 50% of why I am a three year CP and even give a rip about attaining it. Keep making it more difficult and I cease to care to hassle with the process. It only makes me mad at the gate agents and wonder why I take discretionary trips, extra legs or leisure trips to make status.

The inconsistency doesnt surprise me. Im going again this Friday and returning Sunday. It will be interesting to see what happens when I start calling tomorrow.

I book a trip to the UK on short notice. Checking seat maps (they can block inventory view, but not other people's search engines), I find a flight with over 20 available (unassigned) seats in Envoy. Since I'm well within my CP window for upgrade, I ask how it looks. Nothing available, I am told, but we'll waitlist you, and it might clear. Just about 48 hours out, I ask again. Still no dice. I pull a seat map, and it now shows 31 unassigned seats in Envoy. Now, I get curious, and start looking around the net. We're talking a $7000 retail seat. First, I check for special offers to hemophiliacs, figuring these guys are smart enought to market their strengths. What better, than to remind people afraid of cutting themselves that we don't use any glass onboard. Blind alley. Nothing. Then I check 1stAir.net. These guys emailed me a few weeks ago, telling me I can get Envoy at up to 60% off. I check. They're in the low $3000's for the 7 grand ticket. I go into Expedia. Aha..drive to Miami and it drops to $2600 over there. And then it dawns on me. In this Bazaar they are running, they will try to get anything for those seats before they go to a high miler. So hold them open until the last minute. My guess is the available inventory is going up as perhaps some consolidators are releasing seats back. But that's OK, since we can all do it at the airport on date of travel. With draconian reductions in staff at those places, we need to give what's left even more to do. And those happy folks at the port...hey, they will be delighted to see us, and will really work to see we get taken care of. I realize we are all mooches, and don't pay enough, but if all things were equal, many of us would take the nearest nonstop, and save about 4 hours. 31 open seats, and no upgrades in advance? Is that really necessary?

Deelmaker; what search engine, website do you use to check the availability of Envoy seats on the transatlantic flights. This would be very helpful information.

Just an update, this coming Fridays upgrade cleared for me 3 days out before I called.

DCM, I just used the ITN engine. Somewhere in these threads is the AOW link to a shortened (and efficient) version. Incidentally, while in London, I ran into somebody who just came over on the PHL-LGW flight. They reported it hoplessly overbooked, with offers of $600 and reroutes via Glasgow. I'm now thinking the restrictions may be the result of massive overbooking, and the knowledge they need all the space they can get to accomodate. As an aside, my flight over on CO was great. It underscored how far US has fallen in service standards. PS: we did have plastic untensils in BF, however (it must be a UK thing, as someone earlier observed).

Yes, the English are even more paranoid than we are and require all plastic. UA uses cheap looking black plasticware. On the non-UK flights they have a silver colored plastic knife. Not sure why they can't use this type on the UK flights. Maybe the UK goes as far as specifying the appearance and grade of plastic?

I was positively surprised to find metal knives on SAS ex IAD last week. Maybe it's always like that -- don't really pay attentions.

Argggggg. So after 3 trips in a row where I called 3 days out and they called inventory control and they cleared it I ran into this. It seemed to not go to the same place as a CP call. So I called back and got the CP line and was put through to international and they were checking with inventory control and my cell phone dropped the connection. So I call back and instead of being on the CP line again I am on some kind of sales line and they wont call. Tried again and ditto. It seems to depend on how the call gets routed. That sucks since if someone elses call gets routed a different way they would get upgraded and take away a seat. Bah!

So it's day of departure, returning back from London (Thursday morning). I check in at Continental, and go to their lounge in Gatwick. I notice the USAirways Club on the same level, so I drop in to check on a pending upgrade. Chaos reigns. The Charlotte A330 is busted and they're trying to find some place to put the people who need to go now. Me, I just dodged the bullet. It's over 5 hours late, and undoubdetly. people will misconnect Maybe I should believe in the Easter Bunny, after all. By the way, I asked the young lady in the Gatwick Club why the cutback on upgrades. She insists it's economic, saying the number of seats are limited by catering. They simply won't upgrade you if there is no meal for you, and they are "very expensive to provide",she says, adding that loads have been light recently. Keep holding those seats, guys.

CLT-LGW cancelled last Sunday. And also yesterday? Yikes. And they are not upgrading because of meals? Well, Im sure not having any luck getting confirmed on the return Sunday. The 25,000 miles Im flying this week is getting old. And I still have 9000 or so to go......

Do I take it that if you have a high elite level like CP on US that they give you fre international upgrades too?

If so that sounds amazing as I thought most airlines only did in for domestic US flights.

It used to be that all US Elites received a pair of transAtlantic Upgrade certs for themselves and companion annually, but now it is restricted to CPs only. But using Miles to upgrade transAtlantic is still a popular option.

It used to be that all US Elites received a pair of transAtlantic Upgrade certs for themselves and companion annually, but now it is restricted to CPs only. But using Miles to upgrade transAtlantic is still a popular option.

Actually, if you were gold or silver, you only received a pair of certs for yourself (no companion).

Actually, if you were gold or silver, you only received a pair of certs for yourself (no companion).

Ooops, sorry! How little I know about non-CP stuff........

Ooops, sorry! How little I know about non-CP stuff........

A little snobbish are we? :D :D

So I called back on Friday for a Sunday return and finally got someone who called inventory control and they cleared the upgrade. I was shocked because when I got on the flight Sunday Envoy didnt even look full but they were still holding on to those upgrades very late.

Ah yes, the transatlantic upgrade dance at the gate. I flew recentely from PHL-DUB, my SO and I were using our miles to upgrade since I was told that I had a safer bet of getting the upgrade than with my DMUTA3 certificates. I was immediately waitlisted when I requested the upgrade back in June. There was 12 seats available on the 767. I was told they may release about 1 month before but they weren't sure. So I checked, nothing. I called the day before my flight and nothing (I'm just silver). We showed up early on the day of departure and said that upgrades are being done at the gate but we should be lucky that we even had confirmed coach seats since all coach was oversold by 10 seats. I inquired about how many first class seats were left and she said she couldn't tell (??). I still persisted and waited by the gate.

It was a mess at the gate. The line to speak to the agent was 30 people deep. People were angry and worried that they weren't going on the flight. They started to offer people $400 cash or $600 travel vouchers and a stay overnight at a nearby hotel to give up their coach seat. Meanwhile, I'm in line knowing that there's no way 12 seats in F which were available the day before (I checked) and just disappeared. If they only upgraded me and my SO then they could have my coach seats. Eventually, I was able to talk to an agent. She realized that they had 12 empty F seats and didn't have to offer any $ or vouchers since there were people like us who were waiting for their upgrade.

On the return, we used our upgrade certificates (from our late 2003 Silver package). And once again, we told no upgrades will be cleared until the gate. We eventually were cleared but it would have been nice ahead of time so we had more time to shop at the airport gift shops.

By the way, there were silverware and glass on both flights and service was excellent.