Air New Zealand Air Points - Air NZ dogma destroying stopovers




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DCF
Aug 21, 04, 7:16 am
I am one Air NZ very frequent flyer who is appalled by what has been allowed to happen to services to Honolulu and other Pacific destinations .

I understand that big jets no longer need to refuel on transpacific flights and that cabotage rules forbid domestic LAX-HNL traffic. I also understand that between 2000 and 2003 the exchange rate discouraged Aussies and Kiwis from holidaying in Hawaii.

What Air New Zealand's current management don't seem to understand is their niche in the longhaul market. Air NZ has never been particularly competitive in the NZ, Australian or European markets on price, but has always had the advantage of allowing business or tourist flyers the opportunity to break their journey in the Pacific.

For over a decade eight of my family members in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and Austria have flown Air NZ longhaul several times each year. And the two favoured stopovers are always Tahiti and Honolulu, primarily because Rarotonga has iffy accommodation and cooler weather and Fiji is a racist pseudodictatorship which has effectively practised ethnic cleansing for the last 15 years, so we wouldn't want to spend our money there.

Now, however, Air NZ is blindly following the low-cost short-haul model which even Ryanair is despairing of (and look what happened to BA and KLMs similar mistaken enterprises). And this plays very, very badly to longhaul passengers who find themselves stuck on Express (if only) flights.

Consequently, in the unlikely event that a European traveller can get from LAX to Rarotonga, Apia or Nadi as part of his or her longhaul itinerary, he will then get treated as part of a shorthaul cattle herd for the most distant part of his journey.

Meanwhile Tahiti is scuppered as a practicable stopover by the reduction in flights to and from LAX.

The Hawaii situation is even worse. Even if you buy your ticket from Air NZ and fly every other segment between say Sydney and London on Air NZ, you will only earn Airpoints Dollars at the lower Star Alliance rate because Air NZ can't be bothered to fly LAX-HNL any more, but punishes its own customers who it books onto United for that sector.

I fear that if Air NZ does not wake up soon it will have no longhaul market left. It already charges more than double what Hawaiian Air does to fly from Australia to LA or Honolulu both in Economy and Business Class. And Air Tahiti Nui is soon to link Australia with LA, New York and Europe via Tahiti and is already promising better prices, better service and easier stopovers.

Putting Virgin's fancy beds in Premium Class is a short-term fix that will not win market share for Air NZ in the longhaul market. Seats have roughly a 7 year life, and within a short period the competition will always have a new product available.

It's ironic really. The very things which attracted me to Air New Zealand in the first place now look like diverting me to Air Tahiti Nui and Hawaiian Air.


DCF
Aug 21, 04, 7:24 am
Apart from the Express nonsense, the airline also seems not to understand how its longhaul market share has changed, and why.

United's withdrawal from Auckland basically gave Air NZ the LAX route on a plate, but these things are one-off occurences.

More to the point, French Polynesia now has four times as many hotel beds, and higher occupancy, than it did in 1990. It also has a higher per capita GDP than New Zealand. So where is the growth in passengers flying on Air NZ from Australia, New Zealand or even Europe to Tahiti?

The answer is it hasn't happened because Air NZ hasn't grasped the opportunity, and indeed has reduced services rather than driving the market. Not too long ago, the cheapest way for French Polynesians to get to France (or vice versa) was on Air NZ. Not any more.

Air NZ is surrendering the Pacific to Air Tahiti Nui and Hawaiian Air (plus Air Pacific for those who can put politics aside). It's sad.

ntddevsys
Aug 21, 04, 4:26 pm
I'm going to disagree with you about earning rates with stops in hnl.

With the new airbucks scheme flying return on NZ services SYD - LHR you earn 240 for discount, 290 for full eco and 800 for business class.

With your situation flying SYD - AKL - HNL - LAX - LHR with the new airbucks scheme, earning is 290 for discount, 380 for full eco and 740 for business class [you could add another 100 airbucks if you fly hnl - lax in ua first].

Correct me if i'm wrong but both Tahiti and Honolulu offer full service, not pacific express.

I actually do think that the new B744 seating will make nz more popular, but seeing B763 run the islands to lax routes there is no advantage to flying with nz.

I am also going to hazard a guess that the new B772 aircraft will mainly be used on Asian Routes not on Pacific ones.

I'm going to agree with you that Air New Zealand need to wake up with the pacific or suffer the consequences.

I think they could afford to put fares down a little. Especially seeing they pay Ralph Norris between NZ$1,080,001 and NZ$1,090,000 a year.


flyingmoa
Aug 21, 04, 6:50 pm
as you can see by my post count im a longtime lurker.. but i dont think you're giving nz a fair go in this post.



Now, however, Air NZ is blindly following the low-cost short-haul model which even Ryanair is despairing of (and look what happened to BA and KLMs similar mistaken enterprises). And this plays very, very badly to longhaul passengers who find themselves stuck on Express (if only) flights.

Consequently, in the unlikely event that a European traveller can get from LAX to Rarotonga, Apia or Nadi as part of his or her longhaul itinerary, he will then get treated as part of a shorthaul cattle herd for the most distant part of his journey.


having experienced 4 flights on the new pacific express so far i have to say that there is little to no difference in the actual inflight service. theres still a movie, theres still food (yes its less in quality and quantity than other nz services..however you can experience the same drop in quality on any us airline flight without the benefit of paying a lower price on it! ;)) in business class the change is even less. still full service with good meals and wine. since the passengers who'er coming from europe,usa etc will still be scoring miles for the express flights, the one difference is that the meal is smaller.. is this really being treated like cattle?


Meanwhile Tahiti is scuppered as a practicable stopover by the reduction in flights to and from LAX.


happens every year.. hardly think a one per week reduction in the slow season is the end of the world...!!!



I fear that if Air NZ does not wake up soon it will have no longhaul market left. It already charges more than double what Hawaiian Air does to fly from Australia to LA or Honolulu both in Economy and Business Class. And Air Tahiti Nui is soon to link Australia with LA, New York and Europe via Tahiti and is already promising better prices, better service and easier stopovers.


hmm.. i was curious to see if you were right here. went to travel.com.au, plugged in some random dates sydlax in feb 05, and got ha with a fare of 1350 and nz with 1401. found some cheapie fares on ha (800 level compared to 1400 on nz). thats so far below all the other competitors (qf ac etc) that i wonder what ha is up to with that one. possibly a special that the others havent matched because they already are full up? i have heard from a friend who travelled ha sydhnl that the ha premium product seemed to be a regional one and not up to scratch with nz/qf/ac for the long sydhnl run.


Putting Virgin's fancy beds in Premium Class is a short-term fix that will not win market share for Air NZ in the longhaul market. Seats have roughly a 7 year life, and within a short period the competition will always have a new product available.


have to call this one rubbish im sorry!! i know for a fact vs market share incrsaed by something like 7% when they put their beds in. 7% in the high yield premium market is gold!! i know personally that when theyre in ill be deserting TG because even though theyre cheaper than nz to europe, the premium class beds will outclass their product making it worth the hassle to go through lax and pay more!! i dont think ill be an unusual case, either.

DCF
Aug 21, 04, 9:45 pm
Sydney - Los Angeles Business:
Hawaiian Air $3726
Air NZ $7200

Sydney - Honolulu Wholesale Economy:
Hawaiian Air $669
Air NZ $ 1146

With regard to the Premium product, Flying Moa and the airline are making the same mistake. Virgin, BA, AA and United charge comparable prices on the North American routes in question, so VS's better product attracts increased market share.

The problem with AKL-LAX and SYD-LAX is that the prices charges by Qantas and Air NZ are already ludicrous, and of course would worsen if the anti-competitive pricefix arrangeent is approved. So if Hawaiian Air or Air Tahiti Nui offer much better fares, Air NZ's fancy seats are likely to pull in VS's 7% gain, but meanwhile many, many more fliers will vote with their wallets and move to the Pacific carriers.

And yes, I realise that the Hawaiian product is not of international Business Class standard. But Air Tahiti Nui offers a real First Class (soon NZ won't) and nobody who has flown Business on both Air Tahiti Nui and Air NZ would claim that NZ's product can compete with Tahiti Nui at all!

My point is that an Express product is not something Air NZ should be making longhaul flyers who want a stopover suffer. And that the HNL and PPT routes should have keener pricing and better frequency, without downgrading to Express.

ntddevsys
Aug 21, 04, 10:31 pm
A few things, Hawaiian Airlines fly SYD - HNL in a 763 with 42" pitch for 9:50h then a 5:20h service from HNL to LAX [763]. QF have a direct service and the skybed as well as B747-400ER.

Oh and Qantas, Air New Zealand and Air Tahiti Nui do charge about the same on AKL - LAX business class

btw - DCF you seem very knowledgable about airfare pricing. Do you know of a good way to get 4 adults to europe in Business or First Class from Wellington ?

DCF
Aug 22, 04, 7:36 am
The reason why I am passionate is because I will always travel on Air NZ unless there is a compelling reason not to - and I tend to book via the local Air NZ Travelcentre, which guides me to the best fares available (and not the published rubbish on offer by phone or on the internet).

I would suggest three options for your trip to Europe....

1) Try the Air NZ Travelcentre,

2) Try the sub-$6000 (NZ) fares on Austrian via Sydney (if Airpoints are important) or the $6000ish Thai fare.

3) If you have a Platinum Amex (I don't think there is Centurion in NZ) see what companion fares they have. I suspect you might get four of you to Europe for about $20,000.



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