US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - FC on 757

So what is FC like these days on a 757...going pit/las, phl/las

Pretty spartan service and cramped, with only 8 seats.

So what is FC like these days on a 757...going pit/las, phl/las

8 seats of More Room Than Coach.

And no cut-outs in Row 1 bulkhead. If you're in excess of 6' tall, you're probably better served back in row 9.

Or it can be exclusive. We have 7 of the 8 seats next week from MCO-CLT.

Poor #8: stuck with Mileshound and his tribe! :D

I just talked with a US rep who said that they still have linen/towels, etc on these flights.
Is that just old info in their computer or do these longer flights still have good service?

I just talked with a US rep who said that they still have linen/towels, etc on these flights.
Is that just old info in their computer or do these longer flights still have good service?

ROFL!!! :p :p :p

There is no domestic flight/route with linens and/or hot towels. Maybe the rep meant paper towels! Enjoy your KFC "silverware" and plastic cups.

Sad, but true.

Pretty spartan service and cramped, with only 8 seats.

wow! On UAL, the 757s have 24 FC seats! (Unless it is a TED 757 in which case it has 0). It seems that is is hardly worth it to have a 8 seat FC cabin. Maybe U would be better off getting rid of first class and perhaps offer something like economy plus on United.

I just talked with a US rep who said that they still have linen/towels, etc on these flights.
Is that just old info in their computer or do these longer flights still have good service?


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Like envoy said, she probably meant paper towels in the lavatory. Servicewise, it really is despicable. You have a 50/50 chance of a pre-departure drink. Food served in small portions on plastic trays with paper lining, paper napkins, plastic utensils and plastic cups. :rolleyes:

SWA- Every other airline, that has first class, has 24 or something near that number of seats in their cabins on the 757 (except HP, who has 14). The F8 reduction is a pretty recent thing, and I think it's very cramped up there. Also, UA's ted fleet is all A320, so you won't see any 757's.

And no cut-outs in Row 1 bulkhead. If you're in excess of 6' tall, you're probably better served back in row 9.

Isn't it row 8?

Isn't it row 8?

Quite certain it's row 9--was just on a 757 yesterday. There's something sick about me insofar as I always like to go see who is in my Y seat when I've been upgraded. Row 8 I think is an exit aisle with a bit more room but Row 9 A-C has the door there and, accordingly, there's no row in front of you at all. Tons-o-legroom.

wow! On UAL, the 757s have 24 FC seats! (Unless it is a TED 757 in which case it has 0). It seems that is is hardly worth it to have a 8 seat FC cabin. Maybe U would be better off getting rid of first class and perhaps offer something like economy plus on United.

As much as it's cramped and makes upgrades near impossible, I understand the idea of adding Y seats on these high-leisure routes. The simultaneous roll out of GoFirst Fares and downgrading to F8 cabins was was rather keystone cops of CCY, it's a decision that makes sense to me. It was clear at R'fest that the elimination of all F seats on all aircraft was on the table at some point--so I'm just grateful to have what we still have!

Just leave my beloved PHL-west coast A321 alone!!

As much as it's cramped and makes upgrades near impossible, I understand the idea of adding Y seats on these high-leisure routes. The simultaneous roll out of GoFirst Fares and downgrading to F8 cabins was was rather keystone cops of CCY, it's a decision that makes sense to me. It was clear at R'fest that the elimination of all F seats on all aircraft was on the table at some point--so I'm just grateful to have what we still have!

Just leave my beloved PHL-west coast A321 alone!!

It's important to keep two issues separate. One is what frequent flyers want. Obviously, FF would vote to keep first class. But the key question is whether first class if profitable. That really hinges on whether the opportunity to upgrade results in enough increased loyalty to translate into enough extra revenue to justify the cost of a first class section. I suspect that on shorter routes and routes that primarily cater to leisure travelers, the profit equation does not justify a first class section.

There's something sick about me insofar as I always like to go see who is in my Y seat when I've been upgraded.

Hah, that's funny! I've caught myself doing that on occasion as well... :D

It's important to keep two issues separate. One is what frequent flyers want. Obviously, FF would vote to keep first class. But the key question is whether first class if profitable. That really hinges on whether the opportunity to upgrade results in enough increased loyalty to translate into enough extra revenue to justify the cost of a first class section. I suspect that on shorter routes and routes that primarily cater to leisure travelers, the profit equation does not justify a first class section.

The road to hell is paved by examining routes for profitability on a case by case basis. The network is what is important -- and the network will not be healthy without a mix. Maximization of total profit is not accomplished by maximizing each revenue opportunity individually. Nor is it accomplished by filling each and every seat on every flight. "Slack" is necessary for optimal performance of the system as a whole.

There are whole branches of mathematics that deal with this stuff. It concerns me to hear the people in charge of these decisions at US Airways talk as if they're acting on vigilante impulses to remove supposedly unprofitable elements from the mix. I surely hope they have better models and justifications than some simple minded claptrap about "leisure routes".

Ditto! Just did it this morning, as a matter of fact.

wow! On UAL, the 757s have 24 FC seats! (Unless it is a TED 757 in which case it has 0). It seems that is is hardly worth it to have a 8 seat FC cabin. Maybe U would be better off getting rid of first class and perhaps offer something like economy plus on United.

Iflyswa, since you're relatively new to this forum, you probably missed the extensive threads earlier in the year on the 757 conversion from 24F to 8F. This co-insided with reallocating the '57 to the leisure/low yield routes to FL and LAS. A few Carrib. routes are flown with it, too, but those are not necessarily low yield in season. The 757 has become a ratty, dirty airplane inside. That's too bad, because just a few years ago it was a pleasure to fly.....

The delivery of all the A321's has allowed US to focus that equipment to nice long haul transcon service with 26F seats. But, that service can be tight with 2 attendants in a full front cabin. You can't compare a 737 on a 4+ hour flight to an Airbus single-aisle(A319/320/321). Sorry. There's a huge comfort factor that puts US ahead of SW in that regard.

It is now rumored that the 757's will get some more seats back in F due to some nebulous Star Alliance rules that dictate what percentage of total seats need to be F. But having not been able to attend RoachFest 04 where this topic surely was addresssed, I don't know whether there's truth to those rumors. (HINT: WAITING EAGERLY FOR RF 04 REPORT!!!)

It is now rumored that the 757's will get some more seats back in F due to some nebulous Star Alliance rules that dictate what percentage of total seats need to be F. But having not been able to attend RoachFest 04 where this topic surely was addresssed, I don't know whether there's truth to those rumors. (HINT: WAITING EAGERLY FOR RF 04 REPORT!!!)

I asked.

I was told that it is an utterly false rumor. A snowball has a better chance...

Worse -- they hinted that the 321s may be under review.

(Of course the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing so it's possible that at that very moment someone was asking the same question in another session and got the opposite answer...)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Like envoy said, she probably meant paper towels in the lavatory. Servicewise, it really is despicable. You have a 50/50 chance of a pre-departure drink. Food served in small portions on plastic trays with paper lining, paper napkins, plastic utensils and plastic cups. :rolleyes:

SWA- Every other airline, that has first class, has 24 or something near that number of seats in their cabins on the 757 (except HP, who has 14). The F8 reduction is a pretty recent thing, and I think it's very cramped up there. Also, UA's ted fleet is all A320, so you won't see any 757's.

thanks for the correction gotcalcio--TED is A320. It is SONG this is using 757s.

The road to hell is paved by examining routes for profitability on a case by case basis. The network is what is important -- and the network will not be healthy without a mix. Maximization of total profit is not accomplished by maximizing each revenue opportunity individually. Nor is it accomplished by filling each and every seat on every flight. "Slack" is necessary for optimal performance of the system as a whole.

There are whole branches of mathematics that deal with this stuff. It concerns me to hear the people in charge of these decisions at US Airways talk as if they're acting on vigilante impulses to remove supposedly unprofitable elements from the mix. I surely hope they have better models and justifications than some simple minded claptrap about "leisure routes".

Tom--I do agree that the goal is maximization of profits--and that FC on leisure routes is worthwhile if that amenity increases the probability a high yield business traveler will stay loyal to the U network and book their high yield travel on U. The problem though is that the added value of that high yield traveler is falling--mostly because high yield fares are becoming a thing of the past. As the fare differential between business and leisure travel falls, the airlines can no longer afford to spend as much on amenities to reward them for their loyalty. What the network carriers need are amenity systems that clearly differentiate themselves from LCCs, but are not so costly. What form this will take is unclear at this moment--perhaps only first class services on high yield routes, or perhaps FC on all flights, but a less costly version--perhaps Airtran style--a bigger seat, free drinks (but in plasticwear :) , perhaps a decent cold lunch, but not much more.

Tom--I do agree that the goal is maximization of profits--and that FC on leisure routes is worthwhile if that amenity increases the probability a high yield business traveler will stay loyal to the U network and book their high yield travel on U. The problem though is that the added value of that high yield traveler is falling--mostly because high yield fares are becoming a thing of the past. As the fare differential between business and leisure travel falls, the airlines can no longer afford to spend as much on amenities to reward them for their loyalty. What the network carriers need are amenity systems that clearly differentiate themselves from LCCs, but are not so costly. What form this will take is unclear at this moment--perhaps only first class services on high yield routes, or perhaps FC on all flights, but a less costly version--perhaps Airtran style--a bigger seat, free drinks (but in plasticwear :) , perhaps a decent cold lunch, but not much more.

1) Something about the way you type "high yield" leads me to believe that you still think it isn't worth it unless it nets a 1000% premium over discount coach. Which suggests that you're actually an airline executive in disguise -- I'm guessing you work for DL. Your suggested agenda sounds strangely familiar ;)

2) The value of the F seat should not be viewed in isolation. "FC on leisure routes" is bullspit. No route that US flies is purely "leisure".

3) Nor are "leisure" and "first class" mutually exclusive -- nor should they be. This is a huge potential differentiator that the numbskulls "marketing" the legacy airlines just don't get -- as a VFF I don't want to sit in back on my vacation any more than I do on a business trip. In fact I want to be up front with the Mrs et al and I want them to enjoy it. Can I get that on SWA? No I can't. Does having that capability give US an advantage? It certainly could... Does the F service to MCO or AUA need to be just like the F service to LAX? No. In fact there might be interesting ways to adapt it to the market... "But you aren't paying for it!" Bull. I paid for it when I earned the miles. And it doesn't cost nearly what they'd have you delude yourself into thinking anyway.

4) Those aircraft perform many functions other than simply flying back and forth from CLT to MCO or PHL and LAS. They fly between the hubs and to spokes too. It is, for instance, just plain stupid from a (business) customer relations POV to be flying a 757 with an F8 configuration between PIT & PHL on a Monday morning. Again -- you have to look at the total picture. Not just the isolated and largely anecdotal evidence about isolated routes.

1) Something about the way you type "high yield" leads me to believe that you still think it isn't worth it unless it nets a 1000% premium over discount coach. Which suggests that you're actually an airline executive in disguise -- I'm guessing you work for DL. Your suggested agenda sounds strangely familiar ;)

2) The value of the F seat should not be viewed in isolation. "FC on leisure routes" is bullspit. No route that US flies is purely "leisure".

3) Nor are "leisure" and "first class" mutually exclusive -- nor should they be. This is a huge potential differentiator that the numbskulls "marketing" the legacy airlines just don't get -- as a VFF I don't want to sit in back on my vacation any more than I do on a business trip. In fact I want to be up front with the Mrs et al and I want them to enjoy it. Can I get that on SWA? No I can't. Does having that capability give US an advantage? It certainly could... Does the F service to MCO or AUA need to be just like the F service to LAX? No. In fact there might be interesting ways to adapt it to the market... "But you aren't paying for it!" Bull. I paid for it when I earned the miles. And it doesn't cost nearly what they'd have you delude yourself into thinking anyway.

4) Those aircraft perform many functions other than simply flying back and forth from CLT to MCO or PHL and LAS. They fly between the hubs and to spokes too. It is, for instance, just plain stupid from a (business) customer relations POV to be flying a 757 with an F8 configuration between PIT & PHL on a Monday morning. Again -- you have to look at the total picture. Not just the isolated and largely anecdotal evidence about isolated routes.

Tom--It is dangerous to simply assume that meeting your specific needs is the key to successful airline economics. Yes, pleasing one's best customers is important, but making a profit is even more important. Yes, the hot dinner, the parfait, and the glasses for the wine are nice, but to argue that passengers will leave if they dont get it is ridiculous. I suspect the domestic first class of the future will be a nicer seat and free drinks, with a free box of food. Anything more is puffery that makes no sense in the modern cost-conscious era.

Everything will (barring certain interactions) evolve to suit a market need, or die off in the process.

It's the wonders of capitalism.

Different people have different needs, and they'll gravitate toward whatever suits their needs. We're hoping enough people want a little nicer and a little more service-oriented experience and are willing to pay a little more to provide that. I am, and I suggest those differences to others when they are deciding on flights as well.

Tom--It is dangerous to simply assume that meeting your specific needs is the key to successful airline economics. Yes, pleasing one's best customers is important, but making a profit is even more important. Yes, the hot dinner, the parfait, and the glasses for the wine are nice, but to argue that passengers will leave if they dont get it is ridiculous. I suspect the domestic first class of the future will be a nicer seat and free drinks, with a free box of food. Anything more is puffery that makes no sense in the modern cost-conscious era.

I make no such assumption.

Nor do I think that the answer is a uniform least common denominator product.

"Anything more is puffery" is just as ridiculous as expecting Le Bec Fin on board. There's plenty of room for variation in service between airlines and US' current service has significant room for improvement at minimal additional cost.

I don't think I said anything about it but customers will leave and have left over poor service. The more important thing, to my mind anyway, is to use the product in a positive way to differentiate the airline, attract new customers, retain existing customers and increase their overall level of spending. That's awfully hard to do when your focus is on degrading the product.

Everything will (barring certain interactions) evolve to suit a market need, or die off in the process.

It's the wonders of capitalism.

Different people have different needs, and they'll gravitate toward whatever suits their needs. We're hoping enough people want a little nicer and a little more service-oriented experience and are willing to pay a little more to provide that. I am, and I suggest those differences to others when they are deciding on flights as well.

Good point St.Sebastian--but this begs several big questions? How much are people willing to pay for this extra service? How much extra service can be bought with this amount of money? How big is the extra service market? How many airlines will serve this market? And which airlines will survive to be providers of this service?

I took a recent PHL-DEN flight on an A-fare (see notes on FC sucks thread) that included a cold breakfast "snack" and no IFE, although it left at 8am was over 3+ hours long. In early September I am now taking UA PHL-DEN on another A-fare as I've been assured of 2 hot breakfast choices, and one cold, in addition to plenty of IFE. I also join others in paying a J-fare on a *A carrier when the US option is on the 767. The miles will still go back to DM, though.

People do make other choices (or leave altogether) over such things. I'm not being a snob--I'm being practical. I spend too much time on planes to not get a meal. I don't want to get to the a'port 45 mins earlier before a US flight to accomplish what I can be done on a UA flight in 3+ hours: having a meal! There are plenty of posts around this forum of people jumping US altogether over just such things.

I took a recent PHL-DEN flight on an A-fare (see notes on FC sucks thread) that included a cold breakfast "snack" and no IFE, although it left at 8am was over 3+ hours long. In early September I am now taking UA PHL-DEN on another A-fare as I've been assured of 2 hot breakfast choices, and one cold, in addition to plenty of IFE. I also join others in paying a J-fare on a *A carrier when the US option is on the 767. The miles will still go back to DM, though.

People do make other choices (or leave altogether) over such things. I'm not being a snob--I'm being practical. I spend too much time on planes to not get a meal. I don't want to get to the a'port 45 mins earlier before a US flight to accomplish what I can be done on a UA flight in 3+ hours: having a meal! There are plenty of posts around this forum of people jumping US altogether over just such things.

Alternatively, you could go on Frontier, and with all the money you save, you and your best friends can go to the Sunday brunch at the Ritz when you are on the ground.

I suspect the domestic first class of the future will be a nicer seat and free drinks, with a free box of food. Anything more is puffery that makes no sense in the modern cost-conscious era.


The folks at United would beg to differ. They plan to offer a premium product at a premium price, and I for one, see a place for this in the business market.

The folks at United would beg to differ. They plan to offer a premium product at a premium price, and I for one, see a place for this in the business market.

It will be interesting to see happens with United's PS service. I predict it will not be able to generate enough extra revenue to offset its higher costs. My prediction: This service will be a miserable failure, and will not last 6 months. You heard it here first.

the day US removes all FC will be the day it is all over. I wonder if myself, PineyBob, et. al. will still fly US without the FC.

Yes, we may not be paying $7,000, but you will lose thousands of loyal travelers that consistantly pay $250-$500 R/T coach fare in order to be upgraded at a later time.

The JFK-LAX market caters to the Hollywood crowd, and the travel policies of the entertainment companies are -- like everything else in the entertainment industry -- out of whack with the real world. Lots of paid J & F, and Y&B fares, with little eyelash batting. After all, much of the traffic on this route is OPM (other people's money). The big question marks here are whether or not UA's PS service will lure much of this high-yield business away from AA, and how will AA respond?

As far as room goes, it's no better than coach (I can't imagine anyone actually buying this product). If you need to open a laptop get the bulkhead.

As far as room goes, it's no better than coach (I can't imagine anyone actually buying this product). If you need to open a laptop get the bulkhead.

I agree; row 2 is no better. I'd like to take a tape measure to check the pitch on my next 757 but I have no such flights planned. It does seem, however, that the remaining two rows have reduced pitch.

I recently flew row 1 on the 757 and felt like I had some more room than the folks behind me in row 2. Especially because nobody reclined into me. But I also didn't have to get up when the person next to me needed to go use the head.

They oughta' just use the front door(1L) for boarding/deplaning now. Wasn't that one of the marketing tools for Boeing back in the day - "Use door 2L and allow your F passengers to enter their own mini cabin within a cabin, free from the distractions and riff-raff in coach...." If only they had a crystal ball back then.

They oughta' just use the front door(1L) for boarding/deplaning now. Wasn't that one of the marketing tools for Boeing back in the day - "Use door 2L and allow your F passengers to enter their own mini cabin within a cabin, free from the distractions and riff-raff in coach...." If only they had a crystal ball back then.

If only they could do so on the A321! We might even score that elusive pre-flight drink.

If only they could do so on the A321! We might even score that elusive pre-flight drink.

Forget the pre-flight drink. Especially when it's not a required duty of the F/A and their pay is being stripped of any merrit.

As boarding the 321, it was mentioned a few years back when they took delivery of these birds that 2L would not be used because it's too close to the wing and engine. They didn't want to risk a careless jetway operator bumping into something. That risk apparently doesn't exist on the 757 because 2L is a little more forward.

Forget the pre-flight drink. Especially when it's not a required duty of the F/A and their pay is being stripped of any merrit.




Although totally unrelated, on a recent shuttle flight we got a preflight drink, and come to think of it, I think I got one on PIT-DCA (on a 321). You never know when you'll get one I guess! :cool:

On the 757, in Row 1 you can open your laptop.