US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - SWA is only a short term problem for U

I keep reading that SWA and its fares are what are causing U all its problems, but I think that may be only a short term problem. If U can get over its labor hurdles, in the long run SWA may be facing problems of its own that no one wishes to discuss. With its high labor contacts coming into effect, they will be forced to raise their fares and with a competitive U, they could be looking at the reverse situation in a few years where U and other legacy carriers that have cut their costs are a cheaper alternative. I know now I fly United instead of U to avoid the SWA masses at Terminal One security. I like having an assigned seat, especially when I am running late. A cattle call is not where I am at. I don't see this as a premium service, but one I expect from any carrier and in the long run I think this will also hurt SWA. In today's economy, fares are the driving force, but as air travel becomes a commodity, then service will be the differentiating factor in selecting the provider. In that case a low cost U, would be a winner.

I agree that SWA is looking for trouble several years down the road, but there are a lot of ifs.

IF legacy carriers like US could clean up their act and actually somehow manage to restructure and reorganize and return to profitability, then YES, SWA has a big problem.

There have been several threads about this, but there really isn't any difference (fare-wise) between "legacy" and "low-cost" carriers. The legacy carriers and matching many of the fares of the LCCs. Also, the LCCs are competing among themselves as well.

So basically, in a few years Southwest will be the worst airline you could possibly fly. Not that it isn't close already (my last flight there were 30+ pre-boards) .... but it has no IFE, negligible food, cattle call seating, comical FF program .... It's only doing well now because it's cheap, but that will change, as you pointed out, when the fuel hedges expire and their labor contracts are due.

So yes, if US can hang on a few more years and reorganize, I think SWA will be less of a threat. To put it simply, when the fares are the same, people would be fools to choose SWA over US/*A.

it has no IFE, negligible food, cattle call seating, comical FF program ....

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Where does Us have any better food in Y?I wouldnt call wn's ff program comical it's a much easier program for the masses to understand than dm is.
-howie

Where does Us have any better food in Y?I wouldnt call wn's ff program comical it's a much easier program for the masses to understand than dm is.
-howie

Well, I at least have the option to buy food on board. And as far as DM program, I can at least travel anywhere in the world with it - as opposed to just one airline's domestic network. I've flown WN and didn't like it - maybe I'm just too used to some of the benefits legacy carriers provide.

Where does Us have any better food in Y?I wouldnt call wn's ff program comical it's a much easier program for the masses to understand than dm is.
-howie

I beg to differ. How are points easier to understand vs. miles? Also, DM can take me to Kuala Lumpur, RR can take me to Cleveland.

'nuff said.

I beg to differ. How are points easier to understand vs. miles? Also, DM can take me to Kuala Lumpur, RR can take me to Cleveland.

'nuff said.


Depends what you want. RR is not for you if you want upgrades or free trips to Europe. However, many luv its simplicity and appreciate its predictability. Though you cant go anywhere in the world on RR, you know that you will be able to get a free ticket when you want it. No frustration of calling to cash those miles you've worked so hard to earn, only to be told no seats are availalbe.

BTW, have you ever been to Cleveland? Consider paying a trip. The rock and roll museum is great. Also, Jacobs Field is one of the greatest ball parks in the US. The Orchestra is the best in the world, and Cleveland Museum of Art if world renowned. Not too mention great nightlife on the revitalized lakefront.

Depends what you want. RR is not for you if you want upgrades or free trips to Europe. However, many luv its simplicity and appreciate its predictability. Though you cant go anywhere in the world on RR, you know that you will be able to get a free ticket when you want it. No frustration of calling to cash those miles you've worked so hard to earn, only to be told no seats are availalbe.

BTW, have you ever been to Cleveland? Consider paying a trip. The rock and roll museum is great. Also, Jacobs Field is one of the greatest ball parks in the US. The Orchestra is the best in the world, and Cleveland Museum of Art if world renowned. Not too mention great nightlife on the revitalized lakefront.

I fly SWA so infrequently that my attempts to accumulate the required credits for a free R/T always meet the same result, meaning they expire after 12 months. No thanks. Also, the time will come where SWA will have to implement capacity controls on their awards. Lets call them what they are: RR <and TrueBlue> are horrible programs.

It seems that this thread is sliding towards another what is better about WN vs. US and RR vs DM debate ("not that there is anything wrong with that")...(Though I must admit I've come to enjoy iflyschadenfreude's plug for the virtues of the cities of WN's network.)

As I have said before, all airlines do not have to be the same...just as all hotels are not the same. Different Strokes....

Just as many of the RoachFest attendees said, not everyone is looking for a $29.00 fare. Or a $29.00 hotel room. (if there is such a thing). That doesn't mean that are want to pay $1000.00 to fly to across the country either.

I would agree that SWA is a short term problem for US.

The problem is that if US doesn't get their act together quickly there won'ty be a long term...

On the other hand -- "The Southwest Effect" is a very interesting thing. They lower prices in a market but also vastly increase travel. Not just travel on SWA -- all carriers see big increases. PHL is a hugely underserved market with a lot of potential for growth. I can see a possibility that by forcing US to rationalize PHL fares SWA may actually save the airline from itself ;)

Yeah, PHL is a horrid airport staffed by ogres, blah, blah, blah... Save it for another thread please.

I fly SWA so infrequently that my attempts to accumulate the required credits for a free R/T always meet the same result, meaning they expire after 12 months. No thanks. Also, the time will come where SWA will have to implement capacity controls on their awards. Lets call them what they are: RR <and TrueBlue> are horrible programs.

It is true that RR is not useful for someone who flies once or twice a year. On the other hand, its not like the network carriers do much better in this department. For example, say I fly U once a year. Even if that flight is a transcon, it takes me 5 years to get a free trip. And with all the capacity controls it could be another 5 years before I get to use the trip!

It seems that this thread is sliding towards another what is better about WN vs. US and RR vs DM debate...

Nothing!

I keep reading that SWA and its fares are what are causing U all its problems, but I think that may be only a short term problem. If U can get over its labor hurdles, in the long run SWA may be facing problems of its own that no one wishes to discuss. With its high labor contacts coming into effect, they will be forced to raise their fares and with a competitive U, they could be looking at the reverse situation in a few years where U and other legacy carriers that have cut their costs are a cheaper alternative.

I know my measurement is just a single data point, but I'm often seeing WN fares higher than the legacy carriers. I realize they've forced other airlines to reduce fares, but when I go shopping for flights for myself and for friends, I see WN as higher for standard round-trip tickets. I went looking for a 2 day advance one-way ticket between two well-known WN cities at the end of a convention. WN wouldn't even sell me a full Y, but NW had an available ticket for around half of the full Y on WN.

WN definately comes out better on some situations, but I'm not seeing them as the great deal that many people think they are. After someone tells me they've found this "great deal" on WN to go somewhere, I can undercut it at least half the time on some alternate carrier, whether that be a different LCC or a legacy carrier. I prefer a major carrier for my use of status and reward miles, but if I can save a significant amount of money or time by using an alternate method I'll do it, but for other people, it depends on what their needs are.

It seems that this thread is sliding towards another what is better about WN vs. US and RR vs DM debate ("not that there is anything wrong with that")...(Though I must admit I've come to enjoy iflyschadenfreude's plug for the virtues of the cities of WN's network.)




LOL! If your're lucky, one day I will tell you all the wondeful things about Amarillo.