America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - Upgrade Priority

Has anybody figured out (or does anybody know) how the magical HP computer figures out who gets upgraded first?

Obviously Plats get upgraded first. HP says that when there are multiple plats and fewer seats, it is based on flight activity.

My question is...does fare paid factor in? i.e. refundable vs. non-refundable fares.

Thanks for the info...

dont know if they still, but it use to be based upon flight activity for the current year. so 2 plats, one seat, but one plat has flown twice as much as the other, there you go. the computer does pretty well upgrading, but it helped me last week, when it upgraded my wed 8/11 segments, it actually upgraded all flights on 8/17 as well for me, just one week early. i loved it on tues in vegas, hp 454, a 737, and there were 7 plats on the standby list, but as a silver, i already had been upgraded. fine with me. so far this year as a silver, i am batting 32/33 legs upgraded.

I can't complain myself. I am a platinum and have been upgraded on all but a few flights this year.

Has anybody figured out (or does anybody know) how the magical HP computer figures out who gets upgraded first?



It's impossible to tell because they won't let you "audit" their decisions. Every time I've asked GA or CSR's what type of flyer got upgraded ahead of me, they've refused to say.

It's been my experience that you can "expect" only what you are allowed to "inspect".

Well, being and "earned" Platinum didn't net me good upgrades this year. This is the main reason I'm through with America West. I was the only Platinum on the plane on the way to MSY in April and didn't get an upgrade. I took that awful awful schedule, and didn't get one on the way back either. I got a peek at at pax manifest. There was no excuse for them doing that. The wooing factor has over taken HP so much, that it's more important to them to get new elite customers than it is to keep their old ones. There have been about 3 other trips this year earlier on I didn't get upgraded either. What really miffed me was they were selling upgrades on some of those flights. Also their holding back seats expecting to sell them under their new "fly 1st" promotion isn't fair to their existing elites who supposedly are their best customers.

My upgrade percentage on CO and NW have been 100% for the past 3 years. I have learned to fly on the airlines that at least follow their own rules, and not just make promises, hold up hoops for us to jump through as elite flyers, then pull them away. And this is what HP has done to me. Shame on them! :mad:

Has anybody figured out (or does anybody know) how the magical HP computer figures out who gets upgraded first?

Here's how it works:

1) Elite status is the first level - Platinum then Gold then Silver

2) YTD Elite flown miles is the second level - A Platinum member with 50k elite YTD miles would be upgraded before a Platinum member with 47k elite YTD miles.

The Elite level is always the high qualifier - If there is 1 seat available, a nominated Gold member with 0 elite YTD flight miles will get the seat before a Silver member with 24k flight miles.

I am with you on the holding back of seats when you are in "upgrade" time. I'm flying back from DFW via LAS and as of Monday for a Thursday flight there were 5 F seats left (according to ITN) I forgot to call in at exactly 72 hours before and got my email the next morning that there was no F available. I called in and they said only two seats remained and they were being held for sale. If they didn't sell they would be released. Wednesday morning I got the email saying nothing was available on either flight again and the seats were sold. This is the first time that all the seats have sold out prior to upgrades that I'm aware of on this flight back ( I fly back almost every thursday) So I get to fly back in homely coach this time. Had they not held the 2 remaining seats back I would have gotten upgraded. I guess the seats must have gone to mileage upgraders cuz they said the bucket was empty for those upgrade via miles or status. oh well...

Lance

sorry - I left out that the elite upgrade process uses 'E' class seats, not 'F' class. Does this mean seats are held back for sale? YOU BET!

Also their holding back seats expecting to sell them under their new "fly 1st" promotion isn't fair to their existing elites who supposedly are their best customers.

Let's see I understand this correctly: an airline is supposed to turn down someone who is willing to pay a full first class fare so that it can give the seat to someone who has paid coach? Maybe the reason that HP isn't in Chapter 11 is that it has figured out how to sell first class seats.

Let's see I understand this correctly: an airline is supposed to turn down someone who is willing to pay a full first class fare so that it can give the seat to someone who has paid coach? Maybe the reason that HP isn't in Chapter 11 is that it has figured out how to sell first class seats.

While I certainly want them to exceed in their business, and I understand wanting to sell as many as possible without giving them away for "nothing extra" why even have the 3 day / 2 day/ 1 day for the different level of elites. Why not 3 mintues, 2 minutes 1 minute? That way if someone wants to pay last minute they still can. But usually they release those 2 seats the day of departure for upgrades. I realize 3 minutes etc is sarcastic but really as long as you go in pecking order 3 days or 1 day doesn't make that much difference does it? then you have more to sell cuz you haven't upgraded those who fly your airline 70-80 times a year those first two days. Now I've gotten pretty lucky with most of my upgrades, but I also think that it's not always the best developed process as i've been silver and gotten upgraded over platinum before cuz the computer didn't run his upgrade through the nights before mine was run. I'm just hoping someone gets on an earlier flight and leaves me a seat open :)

Lance

I'm not sure I see the problem. If HP holds back a couple of seats in the hope that it can sell them at full F fare, that seems to be good business. If the seats don't sell, they become available for upgrades at the gate, and at that point should go in order of status - i.e., Platinum first, the Gold, etc.

So, in the end, if someone doesn't get an upgrade, it would be either because first class seats went for first class fares, or because someone with a higher status got the upgrade.

Am I missing something? Is HP upgrading different from other airlines?

I'm not sure I see the problem. If HP holds back a couple of seats in the hope that it can sell them at full F fare, that seems to be good business. If the seats don't sell, they become available for upgrades at the gate, and at that point should go in order of status - i.e., Platinum first, the Gold, etc.

So, in the end, if someone doesn't get an upgrade, it would be either because first class seats went for first class fares, or because someone with a higher status got the upgrade.

Am I missing something? Is HP upgrading different from other airlines?

Nope

And the complaint about upgrades coming later and later ( and mostly at the gate) is prevelant in most of the forums

I don't mind HP holding back seats. That's good business practice..As a customer I wish they didn't but hey I'm the customer I want something for nothing and they are the company they want to give nothing for something. :) What I wonder and no one has really told me is let's say there are 8 seats. How many of those 8 are available for upgrade via status and mileage? You can upgrade via mileage anytime I guess for those bucket of seats. The rest are for sale. Now lets say they sell 6 F seats leaving two. No one has upgraded, do they still hold the final two for sale or do they let them go to the upgrade guys? Just asking cuz i'm not really sure. I'm just happy I get bumped most of the time up to F and can board early. I don't care if I board after F I just wanna have room for my stuff up in the bin at least :) I've just not seen this flight actually SELL out. Not alot of platinums take this route at the times I take it from what I see (I talk to alot of the people on teh route) so I'm assuming they sold out which is good to sell out all 8 seats from DFW to LAS.

Lance

I don't mind HP holding back seats. That's good business practice..As a customer I wish they didn't but hey I'm the customer I want something for nothing and they are the company they want to give nothing for something. :) What I wonder and no one has really told me is let's say there are 8 seats. How many of those 8 are available for upgrade via status and mileage? You can upgrade via mileage anytime I guess for those bucket of seats. The rest are for sale. Now lets say they sell 6 F seats leaving two. No one has upgraded, do they still hold the final two for sale or do they let them go to the upgrade guys? Just asking cuz i'm not really sure. I'm just happy I get bumped most of the time up to F and can board early. I don't care if I board after F I just wanna have room for my stuff up in the bin at least :) I've just not seen this flight actually SELL out. Not alot of platinums take this route at the times I take it from what I see (I talk to alot of the people on teh route) so I'm assuming they sold out which is good to sell out all 8 seats from DFW to LAS.

Lance

I really strongly believe that elites are now taking the "end of the train" back seat, last to be upgraded in all of this on HP. My experience after getting a peek at a Pax manifest and talking to customers at the gate is, that they are holding back most seats for sale when people call in on the phone for a reasonable upgrade fee. A friend of mine did this. I didn't get my EUA but he got the right to do the 30 hour thing when it was offered to him by an Res agent when he called in. So, on some routes, the 3 day, 2 day, 1 day EUA doesn't even ever really apply to us elite members. The reason I'm gone is that my Platinum card that I earned last year (and it wasn't a darned match) doesn't mean anything anymore. But it did last year. I might as well fly on WN. But I don't. I have not experienced the same thing at CO or NW. I have had 100% EUA experience on both carriers with my One-Pass Plat status. So which airline do you think I'm going to protect my status when getting my EQM's for next year? I know there have been a whole lot of complaints with CO and their 50% EQM for lower fare tickets. But they have many many, more elites to deal with than does HP. Now some of them have left the program over that. HP has no excuse at all because they don't have that many earned Platinums. Without the International component, it's very very difficult to earn Plat in the first place on HP. Their new "fly 1st for cheap" policy is what has lost me as a very good customer. Yes, it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I just don't understand how they would jeopardize their best elite customers for some "fly-by-night" marginal revenue they might enjoy that will certainly be short lived. Especially when these people find out that their FC isn't all that. (not to mention the awful food!) The thing that upsets me the most, is that they don't play by the rules that they themselves set up. Obviously, I'm livid over that fact. And I'm additionally stupefied they they continue to earn the Best Elite Program and that Freddie award. Who's decision was that? I'm sure it's not the flying public!!! I guess who ever runs that thing loves HP. I'm over em, though.
:mad: :td:

Is there anyone out there that knows how many are in each bucket? I know on the 737 I am flying back on today there are 8 seats. There were two left at 3 days out that were being held back for sale. I'm guessing half the seats are upgradable via miles or status and half are for sale. More than likely someone had used miles to upgrade to grab the four seats that were in the upgrade bucket, 2 bought F tickets and the remaining two sat there until the day before the flight and were mysteriously gone. I'm platinum with not a ton of miles this year (only like 26K most of which was done since june) so perhaps another 2 plats are on the flight but unlikely from my experience in previous flights. I'm wondering if they sold them in the 30 hour dealio before upgrading? But I'll never know. I don't know how you guys sneak looks at the PAX manifest. If it's a FA I recognize I'll ask today to see if anybody got upgraded on status. I think the program is pretty good. If I flew CO or any of the others that count half miles or not all segments I would hardly make silver. So I think they have a good program, but sometimes that xtra 50 bucks shouldn't outweigh someone who has done 30+ flights in a couple months.


Lance

During the summer months, the flight I take is consistantly SOLD OUT in First Class. So I decided to bite the bullet and purchase First Class (I am earned Plat), for the summer months. I'm hoping that in fall, when tourism to Vegas drops off, that I can get upgrades again.
For me the $50 is worth it not to be seated in coach with a bunch of drunken bachelor-party attendees. (I am amazed that the AWA flight attendants handle these flights so well!....sorry, off topic).

Well thought I'd let you guys know what ended up happening for my flights yesterday. I called in in the morning to see if the seats were indeed gone and they were for the 113 out of DFW to LAS but 640 from LAS to PHX had one open so I grabbed it. So the shorter of the flights but the last leg is always nice to get off faster. So I get to the airport and I check in and on the Kiosk I notice that the Kiosk reported me as GOLD on the screen when it shows you your seating assignment. I'm Platinum (just recently) so I wondered why but it was busy and I didn't wanna bother a gate agent on it. So I got inside security and called flightfund to ask why that was there but she was unable to figure it out for me. Does anyone know? Well we board the plane and i'm in 5C. I noticed that they only had 5 people in first out of 8. Well they did call me up and sat me up in 2D. We flew with 2 Empty F seats. DO that many people skip out on flights that they booked F for? Seemed odd since it was PACKED so early in the week but to have 3 opens was odd. Not that I'm complaining. It was much more comfy that being crammed back in 5C. Anyhow it all worked out and ended up sitting next to the only guy who got a status upgrade (he had more miles this year than I did).

Lance

Well thought I'd let you guys know what ended up happening for my flights yesterday. I called in in the morning to see if the seats were indeed gone and they were for the 113 out of DFW to LAS but 640 from LAS to PHX had one open so I grabbed it. . . . I noticed that they only had 5 people in first out of 8. Well they did call me up and sat me up in 2D. We flew with 2 Empty F seats. DO that many people skip out on flights that they booked F for? Seemed odd since it was PACKED so early in the week but to have 3 opens was odd.

I can shed a little light on this particular instance, as I did the very same return trip from DFW to PHX via LAS on those same flights one day before, and have done it a few other times recently.

HP's fares, especially last minute on a PHX-DFW round-trip are high, relative to other cities of similar distance. If you're willing to fly via LAS, they come down considerably. It's the non-stop flight they gouge you on. One client I work with is especially air fare thrifty, so their travel agent booked me on this routing home to save $350 (it was a pretty last minute trip). A little over an hour before 113 departs for LAS a non-stop to PHX departs DFW. If you get to the airport early and are going to PHX, if there is space open on the earlier flight, they'll almost always let you move to it without charge, avoiding the longer routing and freeing up space on 113. A number of people do that. No doubt a number of them are elites who were upgraded on 113 and suddenly, seats open up in First.

In this particular instance this week, I tried to do just that, but, fortunately, just missed the cut-off time at DFW. I walked through security as the jetway was being pulled back on the PHX non-stop. Oh well, you win some, you lose some.

However, it was the the best "missed flight" I've had in a long time. A few minutes later, fire engines and airpot Hazmat people started showing up at the gate and a HP Airbus races down the taxiway and pulls in to the gate. Fireman run to it from everywhere. It was the PHX non-stop that had just left a few minutes before. According to some passengers who eventually de-planed, shortly after take-off something happened that created a noise and vibration and the cabin quickly filled with the smell of something rubber-like burning. People said it was a very strong smell. The captain immediately descended, banked the plane hard to turn it around and came right back to land and race to the gate. After paramedics dealt with some people in crisis, the people all de-planed very quickly, even leaving all their carry-ons behind.

I don't know what the problem was. Within a few minutes they announced that the flight was canceled and they asked people to line up to be re-accommodated. The first choice, of course, was the LAS flight a few minutes later, which, fortunately, I was still on. I can just imagine giving up my first seat on that flight, only to go through that mess on the PHX flight, then to be left without a flight at all. The flying gods were with me that day. :)

Wow I guess that was a missed flight. Yeah I definitely know about the fares and such as I book that way not only to get 4 segments for the week isntead of 2 but to save about 300 bucks round trip. I always forget about that Phoenix flight cuz everytime my buddy (who flies through phoenix to San Jose) is there it's always full for him to get on. Although Flightfund told me only 1 elite was upgraded (A Plat with 50K this year) and I was second on the list after him. I figured it was prolly gonna be couples that upgraded via miles to go get hitched in vegas...but it was 3 business guys (including myself) and one employee, and an older couple going to vegas to gamble.


Lance

OK, heres the scoop on HP upgrades. On the upgradable seats, the Elite members have first shot for the *COMP* upgrade - Platinum, Gold and then Silver. Within each level, the members are ranked by YTD mileage. The paid upgrade fee is only available 30 hours prior to departure. As all Elite members have already been upgraded (96/72/48 hours in advance), the seats are available for $50.00, $100.00, $150.00 or $200.00 on transcon flights.
Here are a couple of possibilities:
:-: If a passenger makes a CHANGE to their itinerary, the upgradable seat could be already sold out.
:-: If a travel agent makes your reservations, it is also possible thet your FlightFund number was not entered into the record.
:-: As stated above, if a platinum makes a change to a reservation at the last minute, a Silver member could have already been upgraded and the Platinum would be in coach.
:-: Keep in mind, all Elite members are eligible to be assigned exit rows in advance.
Hope this helps on the upgrade issue. HP wins the Freddie Award because they DO have the best Elite program, as voted on by the traveling public.

OK, heres the scoop on HP upgrades. On the upgradable seats, the Elite members have first shot for the *COMP* upgrade - Platinum, Gold and then Silver. Within each level, the members are ranked by YTD mileage. The paid upgrade fee is only available 30 hours prior to departure. As all Elite members have already been upgraded (96/72/48 hours in advance), the seats are available for $50.00, $100.00, $150.00 or $200.00 on transcon flights.
Here are a couple of possibilities:
:-: If a passenger makes a CHANGE to their itinerary, the upgradable seat could be already sold out.
:-: If a travel agent makes your reservations, it is also possible thet your FlightFund number was not entered into the record.
:-: As stated above, if a platinum makes a change to a reservation at the last minute, a Silver member could have already been upgraded and the Platinum would be in coach.
:-: Keep in mind, all Elite members are eligible to be assigned exit rows in advance.
Hope this helps on the upgrade issue. HP wins the Freddie Award because they DO have the best Elite program, as voted on by the traveling public.

Yes, those are their rules. But I have found on more than 3 occasions this year that they don't follow those rules they wrote at HP. They have been holding back more than just 2 seats to sell in the FC cabin. On certain routes they will sell the cash upgrade to pax that call in rather than EUA their elite members first. This is what has been driving me crazy about this airline. I have not experienced it on CO or NW at all. To me, all it is, is revenue maximization. Best elite program? I don't believe the readers thought so, but the magazine did. That's quite the farce. Look at the score differences! 3,000 booking bonus? Gone 2 years ago. 125% Platinum elite bonus? Reduced to 100% last year. 25K miles now for award tickets. That's up from 20K. (people don't use miles for short hops but HP makes it look good to the public that 15K is a low award now for an under 500 mile trip) Often it takes double (more than double now, actually) 50K miles (instead of the 20K to get an award trip. Seems like every trip you try and take falls into top value now. The 25K coach value awards are very, very hard to come by. Over at CO ONE Pass called these negative changes in the program "enhancements" and upset some customers. At HP they describe Flight Fund as one of the most "generous" in the industry! Wow.. when did taking things away become enhancements and get described as "generous"??
That's some voodoo spin doctoring! :confused:

...That's up from 20K. (people don't use miles for short hops but HP makes it look good to the public that 15K is a low award now for an under 500 mile trip)... :confused:

Actually, if you need to take a trip from Phoenix to Denver, the 15k mile thing is a great deal. Denver costs just as much to fly to, if not more than the east coast from Phoenix. I had to go on short notice a couple of months back - used miles for both me and my wife. Fares were over $300 at the time. I had no trouble finding seats.

And to shed some light on seats being held for revenue...

On many of my east coast trips this past spring (Hartford, Boston, Columbus) I did not get upgraded at all. So for awhile I started using my miles to upgrade and was doing pretty well until August.

When booking I would check to see how many F seats were available. The usual row 1 always shows sold but the remaining 8 seats are open. I booked and called FF only to be told no seats were available?

Come to find out that every morning analysts run reports on routes and may or may not release a revenue seat for miles or FF status upgrade. Then this was the icing on the cake, a representative in "Quality Management" told me that the policy for release of all revenue seats being held can be right up to 30 minutes prior to departure and that in almost all cases at least 1 first seat is held this way on all routes. She even went on to say that their "premium" long-haul segments usually made them the most at gate upgrade revenue and that only 1 or 2 platinum would be upgraded.

So how dumb is this from a revenue standpoint? Not very except when it comes to miles. Don't you think they would want my 20k back each time I want to upgrade? I would think that they would hate for me to cash in 100k plus on premimum international trips..?..?..? A BA business upgrade in actual cash value is $8000+..Get it?

Anyway that is my experience and 2 cents. Right now I am calling every day to try and get my mom upgraded on the BOS-PHX 2 weeks from now, albeit they show 8 seats available.......it is the premium 5:59p flight....

Hi, folks:

I'm only Gold with HP but I've been upgraded on every flight for more than a year. I have absolutely no proof of this, but I think that HP considers the fare that you are paying when evaluating who among the elites gets upgraded.

I buy one-way tickets exclusively - I haven't bought a round trip ticket since the last time I was NOT upgraded! So I've been paying premium fares (premium for HP, but on the low side for the legacy carriers) and they have upgraded me on every single flight.

And I'll tell you, as a former US-NW-CO-DL elite member, I'm very happy with HP and I'll continue to fly with them as long as they give me a nice wide seat for a few hundred dollars on a transcon.

And to shed some light on seats being held for revenue...

On many of my east coast trips this past spring (Hartford, Boston, Columbus) I did not get upgraded at all. So for awhile I started using my miles to upgrade and was doing pretty well until August.

When booking I would check to see how many F seats were available. The usual row 1 always shows sold but the remaining 8 seats are open. I booked and called FF only to be told no seats were available?

Come to find out that every morning analysts run reports on routes and may or may not release a revenue seat for miles or FF status upgrade. Then this was the icing on the cake, a representative in "Quality Management" told me that the policy for release of all revenue seats being held can be right up to 30 minutes prior to departure and that in almost all cases at least 1 first seat is held this way on all routes. She even went on to say that their "premium" long-haul segments usually made them the most at gate upgrade revenue and that only 1 or 2 platinum would be upgraded.

So how dumb is this from a revenue standpoint? Not very except when it comes to miles. Don't you think they would want my 20k back each time I want to upgrade? I would think that they would hate for me to cash in 100k plus on premimum international trips..?..?..? A BA business upgrade in actual cash value is $8000+..Get it?

Anyway that is my experience and 2 cents. Right now I am calling every day to try and get my mom upgraded on the BOS-PHX 2 weeks from now, albeit they show 8 seats available.......it is the premium 5:59p flight....


Use them for those BA flights!!!! I did and it was a great experience ;)

Use them for those BA flights!!!! I did and it was a great experience ;)

Yes I have used them, especially several years ago for that spacious first cabin on the BA 777 from Phoenix (RIP). I still have 728k miles left not to mention the horde on my Carte Blanche account that I could convert to air miles. I just hate missing the seat on the long-haul and would rather not risk it.

It appears that BA awards from SFO-LHR is relatively easy to obtain. Perhaps you can ask HP to fly you PHX-SFO to connect with BA on an award using FF miles?

Two flights a day out of SFO, 4 class of service, and rarely substituted with 777s.

International airline seat map (http://www.seatexpert.com)