Can anyone help me decipher what the fare rules mean on expedia. For example :
ROUTING 524 FROM ATL-UA-CHI-
VIA UA-BUF-UA-ROC-
OR VIA UA-ABE/HAR/ROA/SDF/RIC/CAK/
CRW/ORF-
OR VIA UA-CLE/DTT/DAY/CMH/IND/RDU-
TO UA-NYC/WAS-UA-JAX-UA-TPA-UA-
MIA*
OR TO UA-NYC/WAS-UA-ORL-UA-MIA*
That means I can start in either ATL or CHI, or start in atlanta and transfer to CHI? If there's a thread on this already, please point me there. Thanks!
VPescado
Aug 8, 04, 9:57 am
OK....The first thing you need to do is to seperate the group of FROMs, VIAs, and TOs that are ORed together.
You get to pick one FROM, VIA, and TO and link them together.
This will give you something like:
FROM ATL-UA-CHI-
VIA UA-CLE/DTT/DAY/CMH/IND/RDU-
TO UA-NYC/WAS-UA-JAX-UA-TPA-UA-MIA*
Next whereever there is a group of locations seperated by slashes you get to choose one.
So we would now have:
ATL-UA-CHI-UA-RDU-UA-NYC-UA-JAX-UA-TPA-UA-MIA*
Finally you are allowed to delete intermediate stops. Most likely you will have to as you are not allowed to revisit a city, many times the route will contain segments that aren't flown (e.g. SFO-OAK), and usually there is a limit to how many segments can be flown. So you might reduce our example to
ATL-UA-CHI-UA-RDU-UA-NYC-UA-MIA (or about 2840 miles instead of the 595 or so you would get with a direct flight).
So, a valid routing is anything that you can end up with after processing the routing rules as shown above.
One thing to note is that when getting the routing from expedia, the routing is often truncated due to lack of room. Often you can determine the complete routing by looking up the (also truncated) routing in the other direction and figuring out what the whole thing is based on the two pieces (assuming each piece is over 50% of the whole).
Hope this helps.
chichow
May 6, 05, 6:58 am
Are you limited by the order presented in the routing rules?
For example for a recent United fare
ROUTING 550 FROM LAX-UA-LAS-
VIA UA-DEN-UA-DTT/PIT-UA-CHI-UA-
NYC/EWR/PHL/CLT-UA-WAS/ORL/TPA-UA-MIA-
TO UA-RIO*
OR TO UA-SAO-YY-RIO*
Yes. Otherwise, you would be backtracking. Also, just because there are many intermediate points on the routing, it doesn't mean you are allowed to transit all of those points. Your fare rules also determine the number of transfers allowed.
psychtobe
May 17, 05, 10:35 pm
>>Often you can determine the complete routing by looking up the (also truncated) routing in the other direction and figuring out what the whole thing is based on the two pieces (assuming each piece is over 50% of the whole).
what happens when it is less than 50% and you can't piece together the routing using the outbound and return rules? Is there another source? There's a big gap in my routing rules.
cotom
May 18, 05, 10:24 am
I'm stuck when it comes to understanding this rule on a DEN -BRU itin. on NWA. I would appreciate iany help.
FLT APPLIC - MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM CHICAGO
IF VIA EWR MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM
CINCINNATI IF VIA EWR
MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM DENVER IF VIA EWR
MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM
FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
nnightmar
May 23, 05, 12:09 pm
I'm stuck when it comes to understanding this rule on a DEN -BRU itin. on NWA. I would appreciate iany help.
FLT APPLIC - MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM CHICAGO
IF VIA EWR MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM
CINCINNATI IF VIA EWR
MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM DENVER IF VIA EWR
MUST NOT BE VIA IF TO/FROM
FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
Well if I am reading this right it sounds like the following.
The flight must not be from Chicago.
If routed via Newark the flight most not be to Cincinnati or Denver - and then they ran out of space - thus the further restrictions.
Cheers!
chrisw
Oct 26, 05, 9:31 am
Routing rules on expertflyer.com are often listed differently than routings found on expedia. I am familiar with how to read Expedia routings, like the ones in this thread. The routings on ExpertFlyer, however, often appear as a simple list of cities in alphabetical order. Can someone help me understand how to determine legal routings based on the expertflyer rules?
Here's an example:
AA NR3CFN fare BDL-SFO Routing from Expedia:
ROUTING 2 FROM BDL-AA-CHI-AA-STL-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-BNA-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-CHI-AA-SEA-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-STL-
TO AA-SNA/SEA/LAX-AA-SFO*
AA NR3CFN Routing from ExpertFlyer:
2 BNA CHI DFW LAX NYC SEA SNA STL
Both routings list the same cities. Looking at the Expedia routing, it is not possible to route through both DFW and SEA. How can one tell this from the ExpertFlyer routing?
VPescado
Oct 26, 05, 10:48 am
AA NR3CFN Routing from ExpertFlyer:
2 BNA CHI DFW LAX NYC SEA SNA STL
Both routings list the same cities. Looking at the Expedia routing, it is not possible to route through both DFW and SEA. How can one tell this from the ExpertFlyer routing?
And this is why I don't give ExpertFlyer $10 a month. :)
raybolt
Oct 26, 05, 11:13 am
I've found that EF is good for most int'l routings, and some domestic (US) ones. But it is kinda frustrating sometimes when you just get the alphabetical list that doesn't really help. I just go to expedia when I get that.
dan
ExpertFlyer Voice
Oct 26, 05, 6:25 pm
Routing rules on expertflyer.com are often listed differently than routings found on expedia. I am familiar with how to read Expedia routings, like the ones in this thread. The routings on ExpertFlyer, however, often appear as a simple list of cities in alphabetical order. Can someone help me understand how to determine legal routings based on the expertflyer rules?
Here's an example:
AA NR3CFN fare BDL-SFO Routing from Expedia:
ROUTING 2 FROM BDL-AA-CHI-AA-STL-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-BNA-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-CHI-AA-SEA-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-STL-
TO AA-SNA/SEA/LAX-AA-SFO*
AA NR3CFN Routing from ExpertFlyer:
2 BNA CHI DFW LAX NYC SEA SNA STL
Both routings list the same cities. Looking at the Expedia routing, it is not possible to route through both DFW and SEA. How can one tell this from the ExpertFlyer routing?
Well, actually, the routing listing on ExpertFlyer is a little simpler than that on Expedia. We are simply stating that routing must be through one of the 8 cities listed for the fare to be valid between BDL and SFO. As schedules change, the actual route that can be taken may vary over time.
The Expedia route listing is more verbose in that it indicates specific routes that could be taken rather than just the cities that must be included. Both are correct, ExpertFlyer leaves the route construction to you where as Expedia indicates specific routing.
VPescado
Oct 26, 05, 6:37 pm
Well, actually, the routing listing on ExpertFlyer is a little simpler than that on Expedia. We are simply stating that routing must be through one of the 8 cities listed for the fare to be valid between BDL and SFO. As schedules change, the actual route that can be taken may vary over time.
The Expedia route listing is more verbose in that it indicates specific routes that could be taken rather than just the cities that must be included. Both are correct, ExpertFlyer leaves the route construction to you where as Expedia indicates specific routing.
OK...I have to object to your characterization here.
Yes, they are both correct. However the EF version is near useless to someone constructing a Mileage Run.
For example: From the Expedia route info it is easy to tell that BDL-NYC-ORD-SFO is legal, and also that BDL-BNA-ORD-SFO is not legal (assuming the existence of flights for all the segments). It is however impossible to determine this from the routing given by Expert Flyer.
In the interests of full disclosure: I am a customer of the $5/mo EF service and am mostly satisfied. I have given them some suggestions for improving the features for Mileage Runners, but did not receive positive feedback about my ideas - although to their credit, all responses received have been timely and polite.
N227UA
Nov 23, 05, 7:00 pm
Routing rules on expertflyer.com are often listed differently than routings found on expedia. I am familiar with how to read Expedia routings, like the ones in this thread. The routings on ExpertFlyer, however, often appear as a simple list of cities in alphabetical order. Can someone help me understand how to determine legal routings based on the expertflyer rules?
Here's an example:
AA NR3CFN fare BDL-SFO Routing from Expedia:
ROUTING 2 FROM BDL-AA-CHI-AA-STL-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-BNA-AA-DFW-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-CHI-AA-SEA-
OR FROM BDL-AA-NYC-AA-STL-
TO AA-SNA/SEA/LAX-AA-SFO*
AA NR3CFN Routing from ExpertFlyer:
2 BNA CHI DFW LAX NYC SEA SNA STL
Both routings list the same cities. Looking at the Expedia routing, it is not possible to route through both DFW and SEA. How can one tell this from the ExpertFlyer routing?
And this is why I don't give ExpertFlyer $10 a month. :)
Nevertheless, that's what exactly shown on CRS/GDS for domestic fares.
Agents don't see what we see on expedia.com on their CRS/GDS.
Thus, they have to make routings logically.
The worst thing is the city lists often come with "Single Connection Allowed" even though multiple connections are allowed.
Because of that ******* ****, I completely ******* my thanksgiving.
VPescado
Nov 23, 05, 7:05 pm
Nevertheless, that's what exactly shown on CRS/GDS.
Agents don't see what we see on expedia.com on their CRS/GDS.
Thus, they have to make the routing logically.
This information must be available programatically? Where else does expedia get it. Actually any booking engine needs to have this info for fare construction.
N227UA
Nov 23, 05, 7:32 pm
This information must be available programatically? Where else does expedia get it. Actually any booking engine needs to have this info for fare construction.
Booking engines aren't necessarily always exact.
In some cases, I've seen booking engines breaking fare rules.
For example, when I was quoting out UA fare between LAX and SYD last May, expedia.com has shown invalid routing via SBP with flight number 7XXX.
The fare only allowed 1~1699 for flights.
Honestly I'm not sure how expedia.com sets up routing parsers, but ITA rarely shows different routings from what expedia.com shows.
ls
May 22, 06, 10:59 pm
anyone can help read this fare rule?
It's for a ind-dtw-phx-dtw-ind route (4343 eqm)
any way to get more miles out of it? why the routing does not even have DTW ? :confused:
thanks a lot.
KVS
May 22, 06, 11:33 pm
why the routing does not even have DTW ? :confused:Fares always use city codes, if available. In this case, DTT (Detroit) is listed, which would include DTW.
ls
May 22, 06, 11:44 pm
Fares always use city codes, if available. In this case, DTT (Detroit) is listed, which would include DTW.
Got it. thanks. :)
rosj
May 23, 06, 12:04 am
ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) provides the full map routing feeds twice a day to subscribers (GDS, CRS) systems.
What you are seeing on Expedia is Worldspans (GDS) interpretation of a routing map.
What you are seeing on ExpertFlyer is the Sabre (GDS) interpretation of the same routing map.
Routing maps are pretty simple to interpret once you know the basic rules.
Let's discuss Expedia/Worldspan first.
If you are looking at Expedia a "chain" starts with with either FROM, VIA, TO.
FROM- means a list of carriers/locations that start touching the departure
VIA - means a list of possibles that don't touch depart or destination but link a FROM to a TO
TO - means a list of carriers/locations that end touching the destination.
FROMs are listed first, then VIAs if any, then TOs, if a FROM occurs after a TO it starts a new chain.
Within a FROM you will see the symobls "-" or "/". "-" means "to (connect allowed but not required)" and "/" means "or (one of)".
Elements between dashes are ordered and you can travel/connect "thru" all items, any items or none of the items separated by dashes, as long as you do it in order.
A list of cities seperated by slashses means "or" DFW/AUS/SAT means DFW or AUS or SAT - DFW/AUS/SAT - means travel thru, if you like, one and only one of these in the order list.
Sometimes if there is no VIA they will put FROM-TO but it means the same as FROM and TO seperate lines (they glue them for printing convenience).
Bringing it all together.
ROUTING 509
FROM-TO IND-NW-DTT/CLE/EWR/CVG-NW-PHX*
"Starting at IND you can travel if you like on one of NW flights DTT,CLE,EWR,CVG then on NW flight to PHX".
In this case valid routings would be IND->PHX, IND->DTT->PHX, IND->CLE->PHX, IND->EWR->PHX, IND->CVG-PHX.
An invalid route be IND->DTT->CLE->PHX.
"From IND
connect if you like on one of NW flights (CVG,EWR,CLE,DTT) (not required)
connect if you like on one of NW flights (STL ... ATL) (not required)
connect if you like on one of NW flights (MEM/DFW/HOU/SLC/MSP) (not required)
To PHX"
This statement allows a up to a triple connect (4 flight segments) order must be maintained.
--------------------------
Sabre on the other hand is not quite so intuitive or is more intuitive depending on what you are used to :rolleyes:
The just list cities out in order in long strings, but the same idea applies you can connect or not in the list but it must be in order.
Sabre unwraps the "/ (ors" which means the routings can be huge.
Certain routing maps like ones from United can be biblical in size, especially for trans cons.
The bottom line is that you have to have a left chain (FROM) and a right chain (TO) and sometimes a middle chain (VIA) and you can go through any combination using the "-" for and "/" as described in order.
-----------------
Routings also can specific routing restrictions like:
MUST BE NON-STOP or CONNECTING.
TRAVEL VIA XXX and YYY must be non stop.
Which override and supplement the routing map if applicable.
-------------------------
Be aware there is another rule that must be validated called "Flight Application" which is more english like but has similar restrictions like, must be non stop, must only be on flights 0000-99999 or .... etc
---------------------------
Be aware this is another rule category called "Transfers" which states the maximum allowed transfers (connections) using this fare.
Hope this helps,
rosj - FareCompare.com
ls
May 23, 06, 3:04 pm
thanks a lot!
Syzygies
Nov 8, 06, 7:29 am
CO is publishing a $109 one-way T-fare from NYC to SJC. The routing rules as given on ExpertFlyer include EWR, but the corresponding T-fare originating in EWR is $149.
How does one read these routing rules?
Flying CO on booking class T
One-Way fare for 109.01 (USD)
PUBLISHED ROUTING NYC-SJC/CO6
7. NYC-EWR-MEM/DFW/CLE/ATL-HOU-SLC-SJC
8. NYC-EWR-MSP-SLC-SJCFlying CO on booking class T
One-Way fare for 149.01 (USD)
PUBLISHED ROUTING EWR-SJC/CO629
1. EWR-ATL/CLE/CVG/DFW/HOU/SLC-SJC I would like to originate in NYC but fly out of EWR on the $109 fare. How is this possible?
VPescado
Nov 8, 06, 7:39 am
CO is publishing a $109 one-way T-fare from NYC to SJC. The routing rules as given on ExpertFlyer include EWR, but the corresponding T-fare originating in EWR is $149.
How does one read these routing rules?
I would like to originate in NYC but fly out of EWR on the $109 fare. How is this possible?
The routing allows transit via EWR which would only be possible if CO flew NYC-EWR - which it doesn't (nor does anyone else). For purposes of fare construction, EWR is not a co-terminal of NYC and if you fly out of EWR you will need to use an EWR-SJC fare.
beamMeUp38
Nov 10, 06, 12:28 pm
[deleted]
never mind... I tried searching harder and found the answer I wanted... :cool:
beamMeUp38
Nov 12, 06, 9:21 pm
I hate to quote myself... I have been trying and have not succeeded yet... :o
How do you make expedia show the fare rule? I searched for the answer here and someone said that it will show the fare rules right before booking. Nevertheless, I tried and tried and could find no such thing.
Am I missing something? Could someone kindly give me some pointers?
[deleted]
never mind... I tried searching harder and found the answer I wanted... :cool:
vsreeniv
Dec 6, 06, 1:31 am
Hi Everybody
A newbie here trying to understand how to create an MR. Have read all the posts and have a decent understanding of how to interpret the routing rules. But like "beamMeUp38" said, I am unable to find the routing in the rules and restrictions on expedia (both .com and .co.uk), priceline or any other website. It shows a lot of stuff like whether stopovers are permitted, details about transfers allowed etc but there is no routing rule. :(
So my question is.. do all trips have a routing rule in place? If so, is there a website that will provide these details?
crhptic
Dec 6, 06, 10:05 am
On Expedia, you have to actually get to the step where your next click is to book the ticket.
At that point there will be a link which says "review the rules and regulations (null) of the fare" or something like that. You click on the highlighted words for rules, and are taken to the rules.
vsreeniv
Dec 6, 06, 10:50 am
On Expedia, you have to actually get to the step where your next click is to book the ticket.
At that point there will be a link which says "review the rules and regulations (null) of the fare" or something like that. You click on the highlighted words for rules, and are taken to the rules.
Crhptic...
I looked at the rules link as mentioned above. There is a lot of information regarding the trip including stopovers, cancellation charges etc but there is no routing information. I did read in another post that Expedia does not show the routing info anymore. Is that true?
I tried to price a ORD-DEN non-stop flight. Can it mean that this fare does not have any routing rules other than being a non-stop flight?
I tried to price a ORD-LHR flight on Expedia and the "rules and restrictions" did infact show the routing this time. So does this mean that the previous flight I tried had no routing rules... nonstop being the only rule??
crhptic
Dec 6, 06, 12:30 pm
I suppose it's possible there was some sort of glitch on that particular city pair or fare code. Nine times out of ten the rules do show routing, in my experience.
florin
Dec 7, 06, 11:40 am
While on the subject of fare rules, I have another question. I was booking a DAY-BOS flight on NW and the only option I got was to connect in DTW. I would have like to do something like DAY-MSP-DTW-BOS (for the extra miles) but that wasn't an option - the only way I could do that was to do a multi-city ticket for 50% more cash. The fare rules said:
4 TRANSFERS PERMITTED ONLINE ON ANY CARRIER - 2 IN EACH DIRECTION. NOTE - ALSO APPLIES TO NW AIRLINK FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS ARE NOT PERMITTED
The first part is very clear, but I don't know what the surface sectors thing is. Anybody have an idea?:confused:
Many thanks!
crhptic
Dec 7, 06, 3:06 pm
I'm not sure about that.
However, you do realize that the "surface sectors thing" may not be the reason you couldn't go DAY-MSP-DTW-BOS, right? It could have been that the routing rules didn't include MSP, or that the fare class was sold out on the MSP flights, among others.
florin
Dec 7, 06, 4:39 pm
I did carefully read the rules (trying to find a reason why that was not possible) and found no mention of MSP not being allowed. It seems that the only rule that the MSP routing might break is the "surface sector" thing. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that MSP is outside the DAY-BOS-DTW surface area.:confused:
crhptic
Dec 7, 06, 5:10 pm
It's not enough that MSP isn't specifically excluded; you actually need to see that MSP is included in the routing, which would look something like this:
Also, a "surface sector" is travel from one point to another via something other than an airline. It doesn't have to do with the "surface area" enclosed by other points. So it would have something to do with, say, an "open jaw" (e.g. BOS-DEN, return COS-BOS; DEN-COS would be a "surface sector" since it is not being traveled in the air). What I don't know is what a "fare break surface sector" would be - how could you break the fare at a point to which you're not traveling by air? Perhaps this rule is a complicated way of saying something like "no open jaws allowed"? But normally if that's what they meant, that's what they would say.
You also haven't mentioned that you confirmed that the DAY-MSP and MSP-DTW flights had availability in the fare class you were trying to book. As I mentioned before, that would be a requirement in order to book it, even if MSP is allowed within the rules.
Hope that helps.
florin
Dec 7, 06, 6:41 pm
Thanks for making the "surface sector" more clear. The availability was not an issue here, but I did not actually check the routing, as you have listed in the example above. I read the fare rules associated with that trip, but I guess I should have looked for a way to get that routing. I'm not sure ExpertFlyer is a worthy investment for me just yet tho. Thanks again.
crhptic
Dec 7, 06, 10:36 pm
You can usually get the routing rule for free by making a dummy booking on either Exp**ia or Pri***ine.
chris_denver
Dec 10, 06, 8:04 pm
You can usually get the routing rule for free by making a dummy booking on either Exp**ia or Pri***ine.
Really? Then you're doing something different than I'm doing. The last 20 times on Exp, it never showed the routing rules... What's your secret?
crhptic
Dec 11, 06, 10:30 am
Maybe they changed something. It always worked for me as recently as last week, but I just tried several today, and the routing rules weren't there!
Hi, I am a newbie to MR.
I can find routing rules included in the fare rules on Pr***line.com
However, there are tons of different sets of routing rules.
(e.g. FROM-TO PBI-TPA-JAX-BOS-NYC-WAS-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*
FROM-TO PBI-DAB-ORL-BOS-NYC-WAS-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*
FROM-TO PBI-TPA-JAX-WAS-EWR/NYC-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*
FROM-TO PBI-DAB-ORL-WAS-EWR/NYC-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*
FROM-TO PBI-TPA-JAX-EWR/NYC-WAS-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*
FROM-TO PBI-DAB-ORL-EWR/NYC-WAS-MIA/TPA/ORL/
ATL/MSY-DEN-PHX/SJC/SLC/SMF/RNO/LAS/
GEG/BOI/EUG-ACV/SFO-PDX-SEA*)
The list goes on and on...
And each one of them is different.
This is really frustrating. Do I have to go through each one of them or there is a way to just pick one?
jpdx
Apr 2, 10, 5:54 am
Welcome to FT, William! I'll move you question to the MR Discussion forum, where our specialists will hopefully be able to help yo make some sense of the fare/routing rules.
--jpdx, MR Moderator
william.yin1991
Apr 2, 10, 5:50 pm
Where is it moved? Is there a link to it?
Thanks.
cotter77
Oct 1, 10, 9:01 am
what does this mean:
FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND EMBEDDED
SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
NOTE -
FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
andreiz
Jan 12, 12, 4:53 pm
Is it just me or does Expedia (and others) no longer show possible routings in the fare rules? For example, I was using matrix1.itasoftware.com to look at an AA fare to Rome (AA OKX7Q2Z1) and in the fare rules there's no mention of routing (FROM/VIA/TO).