US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Why is US holding 15 F seats for purchase tomorrow?

My weekend plans just changed and I was able to purchase a last minute MR PHL-LAX. ITN shows my outbound 321 as F7 P7 A6 -- according to the seat map on ITN there are 15 empty seats in F as of now. My return flight on Sunday cleared the upgrade already on a 320 showing F7 P7 A5 and as of now there are 9 empties in F. Does US really think that 15 people are going to buy F tickets for tomorrow evening to LAX? At least I was able to select an exit row online and according to the website it says that I will be added to the standby list for an upgrade and will receive an e-mail if my upgrade status changes. If this is true -- great enhancement US!

My weekend plans just changed and I was able to purchase a last minute MR PHL-LAX. ITN shows my outbound 321 as F7 P7 A6 -- according to the seat map on ITN there are 15 empty seats in F as of now. My return flight on Sunday cleared the upgrade already on a 320 showing F7 P7 A5 and as of now there are 9 empties in F. Does US really think that 15 people are going to buy F tickets for tomorrow evening to LAX? At least I was able to select an exit row online and according to the website it says that I will be added to the standby list for an upgrade and will receive an e-mail if my upgrade status changes. If this is true -- great enhancement US!


I fly PHL-LAX often and upgrades are hard to come by--and this week I didn't even clear at the gate--and neither did the 9 CPs ahead of me. Furthermore, when I asked if I could upgrade if I took one of the morning connections through PIT or CLT, they noted those flights were all sold out. Everyone was seeking volunteers. Likewise, when I checked in on-line for my LAX-PHL return (Y fare so upgraded at purchase), there were 18 empty seats. As we taxied out that evening, the cabin was 100% full. Maybe it's the fares and/or the MRs but PHL-LAX is quickly becoming quite popular.

I'm not one to jump to US's defense, especially when I'm denied upgrading :D , but although it seems insane to hold back so many FC seats, in my experience, it's making sense on this route.

Just because there's 15 empty seats on the seat map does not mean that there are 15 available seats, it seems like recently they've been clearing upgrades and not assigning seats with them ...

that is exactly the case. When it says F7, the only thing you can be certain of is that there are 7 seats to sell.

Just because there's 15 empty seats on the seat map does not mean that there are 15 available seats, it seems like recently they've been clearing upgrades and not assigning seats with them ...

At least I was able to select an exit row online and according to the website it says that I will be added to the standby list for an upgrade and will receive an e-mail if my upgrade status changes. If this is true -- great enhancement US!
They have been promising to send me an email on my upgrade status for almost three years. Let's see 3 years times 100+ flights a year equal 300+ flights. Upgrade email's to date. ZERO

They have been promising to send me an email on my upgrade status for almost three years. Let's see 3 years times 100+ flights a year equal 300+ flights. Upgrade email's to date. ZERO


Agreed! Never once received an email. But, on US's behalf, the other day I did receive my first call from them telling me that my DCA-CLT was delayed. So who knows.

There has been another consequence of the withholding seats from the “E” bucket. When we all go into the upgrade queue at the airport, the upgrade list is sorted in a different manner. CP’s, GP’s and SP’s will go to the front of the line within their status class, if they are on a full fare. So if I’m on a cockroach fare as a CP and do not clear coming into the airport release of seats, then my odds of being upgraded have diminished. A silver of a “Y” fare will trump me every time. Based upon my experience, this has evidently substantially decreased my odds of being upgraded. This week I was 1 for 4. In the last three months I’m running less than 50%. I haven’t cleared at the window in a long time. They are rewarding those who are now paying more for their fares.

I might be on the PHL-LAX morning flight on 9 August (Monday), are my bump chances good?


Jay, aka 1095

Bump chances to/from LAX to anywhere are extremely good this summer. Although most flights are 321's, there is still less capacity than last summer when we still had 757's. Truth be told, they could make every flight a 330 and they would all be full!

I took a double bump a few weeks ago, off US 7 on a Sunday night, and then off a grossly overbooked US 17 the next morning, finally getting to LAX on UA 95!

In the last three months I’m running less than 50%. I haven’t cleared at the window in a long time. They are rewarding those who are now paying more for their fares.


I haven't upgraded much, either. Ick on factoring in the cost of the fare. I think elite status should be elite status. Can we add this to our growing list of Roachfest concerns? :(

US has always done favors for higher fare flyers.

Think of three buckets: F (paid F), E (roach upgrades), and X (not X, but whichver the bucket du jour is) which is the upgrades from full (and fuller) fare coach fares.

Usually, there are always seats left in the latter (the bucket to upgrade from non-roach coach fares) when E is empty. So a GP or SP on one of these fares has always been more likely to upgrade either at the window or before the gate simply based on the fare. This is not an earth shattering change.

Now, however, US seems to be leaving much more inventory in true F and the mystery bucket, and not a lot in E.

For a year or so when I was Silver, I'd regularly hit the ticket counter and upgrade on the spot, well before the gate shuffle. This was due to the fact that there might have been 5 CPs on the list at the gate, but existing inventory in the bucket that my more costly coach ticket upgrades into.

I guess I'm seeing this as a reduction in E inventory with no other changes, but I might be missing something (I don't fly a whole lot of domestic on US these days).

US has always done favors for higher fare flyers.

Think of three buckets: F (paid F), E (roach upgrades), and X (not X, but whichver the bucket du jour is) which is the upgrades from full (and fuller) fare coach fares.
This week it is P

This is not an earth shattering change.

You are correct. But I'm not so sure that some one didn't see this as an opportunity to back door us into buying higher fares once we find out that we can no longer upgrade on roach fares. The real effect of the change is being created in the recent zeroing out the "E" bucket inventory and forcing all DM members into the "fare" game at the gate.

Are we sure that at the gate the upgrade standby list is not cleared by dm level of the customer, and then with in DM levels time of check in either at ato or via web? I have not read before that fare paid was factored in to the airport standby list process? Also that X mystery bucket is now P on US e.g. from Y B and U fares you upgrade to P and all other fares to E.

According to the DCA club, last Friday's PIT - LAX flight still had 14 available seats 3 hours prior to departure and E inventory = 0. Is that even remotely reasonable? What kind of miracle would have to occur to justify that decision? Even after they upgraded all of the Preferreds, they still had 4 seats available for sale at the gate. US Airways needs to find a better middle ground. As I said in another thread, if I wanted to have the upgrade suspense, I would fly Continental. These games are precisely the reason that this CO plat has yet to fly CO this year.

CWPFLY

Are we sure that at the gate the upgrade standby list is not cleared by dm level of the customer, and then with in DM levels time of check in either at ato or via web? I have not read before that fare paid was factored in to the airport standby list process? Also that X mystery bucket is now P on US e.g. from Y B and U fares you upgrade to P and all other fares to E.
It goes somethig like this...

Full Fare CP
Full fare GP
Full Fare SP
CP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
GP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
SP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in

Upgrading on line and doing web check-in puts you on the "Waitlist"
You must check in a counter or gate to be placed on the "Priority Waitlist". They are two seperate upgrade list

The "priority waitlist" is controled by the gate agent. It is from this list upgrades are cleared at gate

At this point we all do the DM upgrade dance at the counter. :rolleyes:

The "priority waitlist" is controled by the gate agent. It is from this list upgrades are cleared at gate
At this point we all do the DM upgrade dance at the counter. :rolleyes:

When we're oh so joyfully doing the gate upgrade dance :rolleyes: do we risk forfeiting our seat in First to someone lower on the list if we're cleared but are not at the gate (say in the club or grabbing food) before a certain point?

My experience is no you don't. They usually hold them till the plane is boarded and then start calling folks up from coach. But I'm always afraid to risk it so I'm one of those who stands by the door with 15 minutes to go before boarding :D

It goes somethig like this...

Full Fare CP
Full fare GP
Full Fare SP
CP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
GP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
SP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in

Ok, I may be dense or I am missing something. From what I have seen, the P bucket has always been set to 1 or 2 less than the F bucket. This means the Y/B people (any status or no status) can upgrade at any time. They should not be doing any gate dances. If they do not ask in advance, they get upgraded at the counter if there is a P seat left - and ususally if there are 2+ F seats left then there are also P seats left. From what I have seen, people are posting numbers like F7P7 and saying they are told it is also E0.

By holding back the E bucket, it is giving the Y/B people a longer time to ask for the upgrade. Unlike those of us on FT, there are many who don't ask in advance but ask at the ticket counter and hope.

Has it changed that P is now set MUCH lower than F?

As a side note, with all of the GoFares, I noticed many routes no longer offer Y or B fares.

It goes somethig like this...

Full Fare CP
Full fare GP
Full Fare SP
CP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
GP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
SP on all other fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in

Upgrading on line and doing web check-in puts you on the "Waitlist"
You must check in a counter or gate to be placed on the "Priority Waitlist". They are two seperate upgrade list

The "priority waitlist" is controled by the gate agent. It is from this list upgrades are cleared at gate

At this point we all do the DM upgrade dance at the counter. :rolleyes:

I must respectfully disagree in premise.

The "P" bucket is typically (as has been mentioned, and holds true based on the last time, maybe a month ago, that I could take advantage) set to (F-2) or somesuch.

As a result, if you are a SP/GP holding a fare that can upgrade into P, you are cleared before the upgrades are done at the gate (almost as if it was done at the time of booking).

At the gate, so far as I can tell, it's still

1. CP (based on checkin time)
2. GP (based on checkin time)
3. SP (based on checkin time).

The UA folks slot in there, as well.

I guess what I'm heading for here is that I think the "full fare" folks can really and truly clear at any time (provided P inventory) and that P inventory typically exists so long as F>2. Ergo, those "fuller fare" folks are not truly clearing "at the gate," per se. Or, to put it another way, it's my experience than when P=0 and F seats remain when it's time to do the dance at the gate that fare matters not. I could be wrong.

I could be way off base on this, but my this has been my understanding for years, with the recent change being the boneheaded management of the E bucket.

YMMV, of course and I'm open to debate or correction on this, because I think it's an important distinction.

It's done this way because the marketing people can now cause it to be that way. To some degree, it's retribution. In theory, it also makes some sense, particularly if it keeps some cheap fare artists from getting seats that higher fare customers should get, but haven't been able to. By forcing the activity to the gate, the customer needs an advance study degree to figure out how to get on what list. With decisions being made by understaffed employee groups, often with attitudes (and friends) of their own, there are bound to be inequities. On the other side of the coin, if they had the kind of high yield traffic this action suggests they think they do, the line would be solidly profitable, especially with the enormous cuts that have been made. Once you get past high demand pockets, like Monday, Thursday and Friday transcons in early morning and late evening, the anecdotal evidence is there to see. Empty seats in First, employees riding in the compartment, operational upgrading of non elites (you observe their unfamiliarity with what's left of the amenities, like free booze), offering of F seats at the gate for a hundred bucks to anybody, and use of them as compensation to get people to give up their seats in oversold situations. Presumably, being able to do this provides some company execs with a rush. On the other hand, one guy's seat hogging roach can often be another's found money from someone willing to take a less convenient flight for a better seat. In modern business, as in medievil combat, practioners of the use of the sword to solve problems often forgot, and were subsequently reminded the hard way, that the thing was sharp on both sides.

It's done this way because the marketing people can now cause it to be that way. To some degree, it's retribution. In theory, it also makes some sense, particularly if it keeps some cheap fare artists from getting seats that higher fare customers should get, but haven't been able to. By forcing the activity to the gate, the customer needs an advance study degree to figure out how to get on what list. With decisions being made by understaffed employee groups, often with attitudes (and friends) of their own, there are bound to be inequities. On the other side of the coin, if they had the kind of high yield traffic this action suggests they think they do, the line would be solidly profitable, especially with the enormous cuts that have been made. Once you get past high demand pockets, like Monday, Thursday and Friday transcons in early morning and late evening, the anecdotal evidence is there to see. Empty seats in First, employees riding in the compartment, operational upgrading of non elites (you observe their unfamiliarity with what's left of the amenities, like free booze), offering of F seats at the gate for a hundred bucks to anybody, and use of them as compensation to get people to give up their seats in oversold situations. Presumably, being able to do this provides some company execs with a rush. On the other hand, one guy's seat hogging roach can often be another's found money from someone willing to take a less convenient flight for a better seat. In modern business, as in medievil combat, practioners of the use of the sword to solve problems often forgot, and were subsequently reminded the hard way, that the thing was sharp on both sides.

:eek: :eek: WOW, I'm going to have to study that paragraph a few times :eek: :eek:

I am so happy that I found FT!!! I started this thread simply out of curiousity. How could an airline hold over 1/2 of the F cabin for sale on a Saturday evening? And on the aircraft with the largest F cabin in their domestic fleet. Yet on the next day on an aircraft with many fewer F seats an upgrade cleared far in advance and that cabin is already 1/2 full. I have learned so much from this fantastic website. To all who responded -- thanks. It's nice to see a large group of people who are as eccentric (read crazy) about flying and in particular US.

Nothing to study, Heinrich. It's real simple. Rather than fix their immediate competitive problems, some in management would rather screw with what's left of the core customer base. That will really help them. :rolleyes:

I must respectfully disagree in premise.

The "P" bucket is typically (as has been mentioned, and holds true based on the last time, maybe a month ago, that I could take advantage) set to (F-2) or somesuch.

As a result, if you are a SP/GP holding a fare that can upgrade into P, you are cleared before the upgrades are done at the gate (almost as if it was done at the time of booking).

At the gate, so far as I can tell, it's still

1. CP (based on checkin time)
2. GP (based on checkin time)
3. SP (based on checkin time)..

You are correct about full fare folks being able to go into the "p" bucket in advance, time of purchase, etc as long as there are seats in that bucket. I'm sorry, I did not mean to infer otherwise. But when that bucket is empty also, then we all get to do the DM dance at the gate. Once at the gate, those with full fares go to the front of the line regardless of status, but within status. I verified this yesterday with the folks who program the upgrade system.

The UA folks slot in there, as well..

I didn't ask where they come in, but I have always assumed it was within the respective equivalent status.

I guess what I'm heading for here is that I think the "full fare" folks can really and truly clear at any time (provided P inventory) and that P inventory typically exists so long as F>2. Ergo, those "fuller fare" folks are not truly clearing "at the gate," per se. Or, to put it another way, it's my experience than when P=0 and F seats remain when it's time to do the dance at the gate that fare matters not. I could be wrong...

I've actually had this happen. Checked-in at exactly 24 hours in advance, got on Priority waitlist at the airport. I'm thinking there was no way I could not be first in line, only to find out that the full fare SP jumped right up and took MY seat. :D

I could be way off base on this, but my this has been my understanding for years, with the recent change being the boneheaded management of the E bucket.

YMMV, of course and I'm open to debate or correction on this, because I think it's an important distinction.

I may very well be wrong..... I hope I'm wrong, but my personal experience is that this is the way they are doing it.

I am so happy that I found FT!!! I started this thread simply out of curiousity. How could an airline hold over 1/2 of the F cabin for sale on a Saturday evening? And on the aircraft with the largest F cabin in their domestic fleet. Yet on the next day on an aircraft with many fewer F seats an upgrade cleared far in advance and that cabin is already 1/2 full. I have learned so much from this fantastic website. To all who responded -- thanks. It's nice to see a large group of people who are as eccentric (read crazy) about flying and in particular US.

Two comments: Saturday evening is the biggest night of the week for folks traveling home from Caribbean destinations. And, just because 15 seats are not assigned does not mean 15 are for sale. I often times am upgraded at the 7 day window with US not assigning me a seat, but I then just pick my seat when checking-in.

I'm thinking there was no way I could not be first in line, only to find out that the full fare SP jumped right up and took MY seat.

I feel your pain and I've been there, but I don't think it was your seat. If P>0 then it unfortunately was their seat.

The way I understand it, if P=0 the full fare SP can not jump over you as a CP.

OTOH, if both of you are at the gate and it is P=1, the first full fare person who asks for it gets the seat immediatly - no waitlist since there is availability in their bucket. That is the key, at the time of their request there was availability in their bucket. Your bucket (E) was empty but their bucket (P) was not. It is "their seat" until the GA decides no Y/B will use the P seats then the P seats become available to everyone and the waitlist is utilized - just like the F seat.

The only way a CP on a non Y/B ticket can beat a Y/B fare SP at the gate is if P=0. This usually means it is F1P0 or F2P0.

Like it or not, the P seats are for the Y/B people until the GA decides to release them to the waitlist. They are released just like that last F seat. Once you get to the waitlist it is all status and time of check in. The reason you are on the waitlist in the first place is you are trying to get a seat from a bucket that no longer has inventory.

The way I understand it, if P=0 the full fare SP can not jump over you as a CP.

The only way a CP on a non Y/B ticket can beat a Y/B fare SP at the gate is if P=0. This usually means it is F1P0 or F2P0.


Ok one more time. Your example quoted above is the way I thought it worked as well. What I'm trying to get across here is that I was told by someome who has been researching this for the past week, calling various departments, and it is NOT the way it IS working. A SP on a full fare beats a CP at the gate on anything other than a full fare. I know none of us want to believe that, I know I don't.

I can only hope that Mark Kuhns can shed some light on the various issues in PHL.

Like I said, I hope I am wrong. If I am, then I'll be more than glad to come back and admit I was wrong. But given were the information came from, I have to believe it is accurate.

What people seem to be overlooking is that regardless of policy, once the airport gets control, humans have a wide range of opportunities to manually do a lot of things. If you discover upgrade protocol has been ignored, there is no time to discuss it. The agent will simply tell you to get on, or it leaves without you. Since 9/11, these same people have also discovered the convenience of calling Security, rather than debate with customers. I'm sorry, but the central issue here isn't alphabetical (F, P, E, etc), it's about the upgrade process being where it can be defeated. I know, in my case, there are a couple of stations where, even if there is a crowd, I can pretty much count on being among those moved up.

... it is NOT the way it IS working. A SP on a full fare beats a CP at the gate on anything other than a full fare. I know none of us want to believe that, I know I don't.

They are working on several fixes to several upgrade and web related issues that are impacting substantial number of preferreds, but they are not in place.


OK, if that's the new way, I can well accept that; after all, US makes more money by being nice to last-minute full-fare pax, and I want US to succeed.

Maybe they could totally automate the UG process (a la NW) so that we could save our energy by not dancing at the gate (and lessen the load on the GAs whose priority is to load the plane and get it going). And have those screens (like DL's in ATL) that show the UG queue without having to ask.

With this new way, I have to wonder why they even continue to have 2 UG lists at all - can't they save themselves some work (and us FFs from a web check-in sometimes in the middle of the night!) by dispensing with the flight-day UG list? The last-min full-fare pax already have been given priority, and there's little to gain by putting another UG hurdle in front of the most loyal FFs

Yes, Elites not presently clearing at their respective windows, even with F7 showing in non-GoFare cities, continues to be an irritation. Oh well, patience, I guess......

Ok, now I get your point. :D We have new rules.

For me, it is a wash for business travel but really stinks for leisure travel - where my longer flights are.

I think it is a lot less confusing to go only by status at the gate.

Also, by setting E so low, the bucket can be emptied very early by people using US20 upgrades. That does not bode well for low paying elites.

OK, since the experts are here and I never figured out how to do it; how are my chances for an upgrade PHL-LGW 7/29, #98 ? I did not make it at the window and when I booked it could not upgrade with miles. I have 10B with which I will have to live, and can, but then...
Thanks!

Jane CP in PHL (of course, how about the return on 8/16? I think it's a 12'ish flight but don't have the number)

OK, since the experts are here and I never figured out how to do it; how are my chances for an upgrade PHL-LGW 7/29, #98 ? I did not make it at the window and when I booked it could not upgrade with miles. I have 10B with which I will have to live, and can, but then...
Thanks!

Jane CP in PHL (of course, how about the return on 8/16? I think it's a 12'ish flight but don't have the number)
US 98 PHL LGW C7 D7 Z7 Y7 B7 M7 H7 Q7 W7 V7 S3 L0 T0

Looks wide open to me. But you never know any more!

When we're oh so joyfully doing the gate upgrade dance :rolleyes: do we risk forfeiting our seat in First to someone lower on the list if we're cleared but are not at the gate (say in the club or grabbing food) before a certain point?

I've had trouble with this in PIT lately. The club will tell me that I'm #1 or 2 on the list with 8 open seats but when I get to the gate they've given all the seats away and they're just starting pre-board.

Not to hi-jack this thread :) but is anyone else annoyed by the way PIT has moved gate check to the desk near the jetway where it gets so crowded it's hard to move around?

..... how about the return on 8/16? I think it's a 12'ish flight but don't have the number)

It's #99 leaving LGW at 12:30pm

C7 D7 Z7 Y7 B7 M0 V0 H0 W0 Q0 S0 L0

All the cheap Economy seats are gone, but Envoy looks wide open at this point.

Best of luck with UG!

JanePond, definately call back at the 3 day window. I start my conversation saying "they told me to call back 3 days prior to check my upgrade......" This is my subtle way of asking them to call inventory management without appearing demanding. It usually gets good results.

BTW, on PHL-LGW the seatmap shows 19 open seats including 4 in row 1.

The return is pretty full, only J,Y,B seats left to sell. However, 23 Envoy are open on the seatmap including 1 in Row 1.

Good luck. I wish I could go for that long.

..... call back at the 3 day window.

There was a recent thread that said CP desk was no longer authorized to call Inventory Management to free up seats - apparently this privilege was abused by some.

Are you saying it's now OK again to call and ask nicely?

I haven't flown transAtlantic with US for months now (my last trip was with SQ - better, but it cost more... <sigh> why do the finer things in life cost more :)


edited for lousy typing

WiFi, what you are describing in PIT is what I am talking about. Upwards of 8 seats disappearing before you get there. Somebody is doing something. It can't be people using miles. US20's have to be done ahead of time. One possibility, folks who were misconnnected earlier (this seems to be one of the causes of screaming kids in the front cabin). That many full fares who didn't clear the higher bucket this close to departure? That doesn't compute either.You have to draw the conlusion thatwhatever is causing you to drop so deeply in the list is not being caused by computer systems.

You have to draw the conlusion thatwhatever is causing you to drop so deeply in the list is not being caused by computer systems.
Unfortunately, it more than likely is being caused by the computer systems. For example.....

Last Thursday afternoon I checked in with a gate agent and confirmed I was on the Priority waitlist. I arrived in CLT, went to the club, and on arriving at the gate was told first had been cleared, was full, and I had NOT been on the waitlist. There had been five first class seats. I trust the agent who told me this, and when I was placed on the waitlist, I went to the top of the list of about 15 folks. There were a couple of no shows, so I did make the upgrade. But again, the point is that I had been on the priority waitlist and had been deleted off.

My advice is to check early and often to make sure you are still on the list until you have upgrade in hand.

Of course another option is to fly an airline that has its act together and which manages the process fairly and efficiently...

JanePond, definately call back at the 3 day window. I start my conversation saying "they told me to call back 3 days prior to check my upgrade......" This is my subtle way of asking them to call inventory management without appearing demanding. It usually gets good results.

BTW, on PHL-LGW the seatmap shows 19 open seats including 4 in row 1.

The return is pretty full, only J,Y,B seats left to sell. However, 23 Envoy are open on the seatmap including 1 in Row 1.

Good luck. I wish I could go for that long.

Thanks for the information from everyone. If I don't clear at the 3 days, and prolly won't, that means I won't get upgraded until the gate, right? Or can I ask nicely at check-in? I have always had upgrades before, so this is new to me. The rather nasty rep at the international desk,who informed me I was still in the queue and not to bother to get there before 2 hours for check-in. Said it wouldn't make any difference. I am not bothered if I can't get to the lounge, however, since I think it's as interesting to people watch at the gate.

I won't be in London that long this time, taking a Seabourn cruise to Norway and parts along there. I will be on deck, however, when the Tower Bridge opens for the boat.

Jane in PHL

:D Longing 4 PI, if they know the airport system isn't working, and are still driving elites to that location in order to upgrade, then (a) it is truly punitive, and (b) the geniuses are just speeding up the conclusion we all expect. With a tip of the old tophat to the employees of the State of Alabama, a great big thank you for at least letting it run this long. To the taxpayers (wait a minute...that's us), a double thanks for backing up the boys and girls in 'Bama with those loan guarantees, and lastly to USAirways Marketing, who will undoubtdedly earn a spot within the Harvard Business School case study library, but maybe not the shelf they were hoping for....say goodnight folks! :D

To follow up on my original post -- when I arrived at the airport and asked to be put on the upgrade list -- I was told that I was #2on the list and that there were 12 seats available. Maybe not 15 as I originally surmised yesterday; however, 12 seats and they can't clear any upgrades in advance? I understand that PHL has tons of connecting passengers from Europe, the Caribbean, but to hold almost 1/2 of the cabin until the gate -- this seems excessive. PHL was a zoo tonight. My flight to LAX went out of C29 at the same time as the flight to Bermuda, San Diego, and Las Vegas (this is at the end of C terminal where it is like one big room with 4 or 5 gates. And at the same time - C29 was also supposed to have an FLL bound flight departing at the same time. When they paged me to the desk the line was 15 deep. Mass confusion would be an understatement!!! I was surprised they cleared the UG list, the agents were swamped. When boarding they easily turned away 15 people bound for FLL before I boarded and they announced our destination of LAX at least 6 times once onboard.

I repeat, doing this on such a restrictive basis, at the gate, is nuts. Especially in Philly, when what's there can barely handle what they have to do to start with. One mildly charitable thought. Often the yield management system allocates seats based on historical performance. Firstly, there seems to be a big drop in high yield traffic, which it wouldn't pick up. Secondly, they have been screwing so much with equipment (Express for Mainline, 319 switched to 321's and vice versa), that sort of year to year comparison wouldn't work properly. Even so, if they know the priority waitlist isn't working properly, at best it's dumb marketing, at worst it's petty retaliation for the fight we put up a couple of years ago over reduced benefits.

This is a great thread. I have been confused in the last few months about the exact process US is using for upgrades.

A suggestion to US: Notify SP/GP/CP the process. If we understood the process we wouldn't be emailing, calling, harassing at the gate abuot upgrades. We would understand that there is xxxx number of lists and that once you are on one (from the web, or from calling or from asking at the gate) we will not be forgotten.

No, education is the last thing we want! If you're here, you know more than 90% of the FFs out there, but if US starts explaining things like this we'll have that many more people to compete with~! :p

No, education is the last thing we want! If you're here, you know more than 90% of the FFs out there, but if US starts explaining things like this we'll have that many more people to compete with~! :p

I agree. Plus, without clearly defined rules that everyone understands, the system is much easier to milk, especially if you know gate agents.

No, education is the last thing we want! If you're here, you know more than 90% of the FFs out there, but if US starts explaining things like this we'll have that many more people to compete with~! :p

I'd rather compete on a level field. The present situation is ripe for abuse -- and we never win when that starts happening.

That was my original point.

Sure we do! It's the uninformed who suffer, not me! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Note that upgrades for transatlantic itineraries are handled by the international desk which can and will call inventory for upgrades (at least at the 3 day window for this CP). The CP desk handles domestic travel and can not call inventory. I was specifically told this by an int'l agent. Stupid me, I forgot to ask about the status of Carribean flights.

There has been another consequence of the withholding seats from the “E” bucket. When we all go into the upgrade queue at the airport, the upgrade list is sorted in a different manner. CP’s, GP’s and SP’s will go to the front of the line within their status class, if they are on a full fare. So if I’m on a cockroach fare as a CP and do not clear coming into the airport release of seats, then my odds of being upgraded have diminished. A silver of a “Y” fare will trump me every time. Based upon my experience, this has evidently substantially decreased my odds of being upgraded. This week I was 1 for 4. In the last three months I’m running less than 50%. I haven’t cleared at the window in a long time. They are rewarding those who are now paying more for their fares.

This is not correct.

Upgrade list is sorted by status class and checkin time, fare makes no difference at airport on day of flight. :)

This is not correct.

Upgrade list is sorted by status class and checkin time, fare makes no difference at airport on day of flight. :)

Welcome to FT, schatzee, and to the US corner!

May we know a little of your flying background, or perhaps you are employed by US? You hold an opinion contradictrory to longing4piedmont's, an established and well-regarded poster here, and it would be helpful to know your source of information. I'd like to believe you, but in view of recent happenings, I'm afraid longing4piedmont seems to be correct.

This is not correct.

Upgrade list is sorted by status class and checkin time, fare makes no difference at airport on day of flight. :)

As you say fare makes no difference for the E bucket. But I think that what they might be doing is this -- available seats are F first, if nobody buys them they're released to P (where fare does count.) If nobody takes them from P then they become available to E. At which point your rules kick in.

Zeroing out P & E until gate check-in just means that we're seeing a whole lot more of this than we used to. It used to all happen behind the scenes. In the past that's how Silvers & Golds scored upgrades while CPs sat in coach. Now it just happens in front of our eyes.

I'd be agreeing with Deelmakur that someone is sending us a message except that that I can't really bring myself to give them credit for thinking it up. I think it far more likely to be sheer ineptitude. They've probably lost so many people that they simply can't keep the data flowing properly.

This is not correct.

Upgrade list is sorted by status class and checkin time, fare makes no difference at airport on day of flight. :)
Note to self. Don't ever doubt Schatzee again. After a PM to him/her, the time was taken on his/her part to send me a very detailed expalnation of how this works. Doubting my own sanity I went back to my guardian angel on the inside of US, and after one more pass over all the information I in fact posted bad information.

I wanted to be wrong on this and I was.

The correct order on the priority list at the airport is as follows...

CP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
GP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
SP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in

I am truly sorry for the confusion this has caused to everyone who has read this thread and to have not corrected it before now.

Thanks to Schatzee and my "guardian angel" for taking the time to correct me on this.

Thanks for the clarification L4PI! This will help me sleep better at night now that I know that the world is as it was before this thread was posted ;)

Unfortunately, I think our much more threatening adversary is not the competition for upgrades at the gate but the dumping of overbooks into the F Class cabin. Now only if they'd fix the E upgrade inventory. Maybe we will here if that was discussed at roachfest. PM me anytime with the PDF summary ;)

Note to self. Don't ever doubt Schatzee again. After a PM to him/her, the time was taken on his/her part to send me a very detailed expalnation of how this works. Doubting my own sanity I went back to my guardian angel on the inside of US, and after one more pass over all the information I in fact posted bad information.

I wanted to be wrong on this and I was.

The correct order on the priority list at the airport is as follows...

CP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
GP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in
SP on all fares based upon time of check-in including web check-in

I am truly sorry for the confusion this has caused to everyone who has read this thread and to have not corrected it before now.

Thanks to Schatzee and my "guardian angel" for taking the time to correct me on this.

Now only if they'd fix the E upgrade inventory. Maybe we will here if that was discussed at roachfest. PM me anytime with the PDF summary ;)
This was discussed at the fest. One of the more discussed topics actually. I am waiting for a response to a conversation that several of us had with the individual that has responsibility for inventory management. I'll post what I find out.

On the PDF file, make sure you PM AtlanticBeacb, He is building the e-mail addresses as we chat.