US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - US Airways and DCA

US Airways which I am sure all of you know already is the largest airline serving this airport. It would be great if they could get a beyond the perimeter slot like almost all the other airlines seem to be getting.

The last set of beyond the perimeter slots that were handed out Alaska got the most on top of what they had already. That was a bit unfair I think. Why can't US Airways seem to get a slot. Seems like every time the try they are denied.

Delta I think is the 2nd largest carrier there and they got one to Salt Lake.

This is a question that would be great to bring to the roaches meeting as well. What would US Airways need to do? Do other airlines kiss the butts of congress or what???


T

Do other airlines kiss the butts of congress or what???


T


You are correct FAN, that is exactly what happens. Slot exemptions have recently gone to cities with members on the Aviation Subcommittees and other bigwigs. Unfortunately, US appears to currently have a dysfunctional relationship with some members of Congress who have provided past support. In addition, most of their supporters live within the travel radius, thereby minimizing their influence on this issue.

If you're looking for historical precedent for lawmakers and airlines protecting each other, refer to the Wright Amendment.

The airline does try. If you've been in the Club at DCA and seen Senator Byrd in a semi-catatonic state (first sofa on the right in the main room, usually with a very young, attractive aide), you know that they are putting forth some effort.

US Airways which I am sure all of you know already is the largest airline serving this airport. It would be great if they could get a beyond the perimeter slot like almost all the other airlines seem to be getting.

The last set of beyond the perimeter slots that were handed out Alaska got the most on top of what they had already. That was a bit unfair I think. Why can't US Airways seem to get a slot. Seems like every time the try they are denied.

Delta I think is the 2nd largest carrier there and they got one to Salt Lake.

This is a question that would be great to bring to the roaches meeting as well. What would US Airways need to do? Do other airlines kiss the butts of congress or what???


T


Thanks for your support!

There are many who believe that US being the primary carrier at DCA hurts, rather than helps, its chances for beyond perimeter routes. It has now been snubbed, yet again, in the last handout of of slots. And seems more than a little unfair (even to someone with a vested interest).

Giving DL the slot to SLC enhances one-stop connectivity to DCA via all the cities that DL serves from SLC.

Giving Alaska the SEA slots does the same thing.

Giving US slots to the left coast does nothing, since US (codesharing aside) has virtually zero presence out west.

If US still operated what was PSA, it would be a different story. They don't, they can't connect people to smaller cities in the west on their own metal (one of the stated purposes of the beyond-perimeter slots).

Given the junior status of the Senate delegation from Washington State, for instance, it cannot be entirely politically motivated. And if it was, US (notably Bugsy Siegel) shot itself in the foot by screwing the PA delegation on PIT and the pension issue and by doing the "we get no love from Washington" dance last year.

Why should the dominant carrier at the airport get a break like beyond perimeter slots?

I sense a feeling that the exemptions go to airlines like America West so that John McCain won't have to be driven all the way to Dulles for his flight to Phoenix. That would be small-minded, and I'm sure that the Great Man wouldn't be small minded. Or would he?

Giving US slots to the left coast does nothing, since US (codesharing aside) has virtually zero presence out west.

If US still operated what was PSA, it would be a different story. They don't, they can't connect people to smaller cities in the west on their own metal (one of the stated purposes of the beyond-perimeter slots).



What about West-Coast-based travelers being able to connect to smaller East Coast cities on US metal out of DCA, without having to make a double connection? The fact that West Coast-based travelers are treated like ....... children is something I intend to bring up (politely and non-confrontationally, of course) at Roachfest.

What about West-Coast-based travelers being able to connect to smaller East Coast cities on US metal out of DCA, without having to make a double connection? The fact that West Coast-based travelers are treated like ....... children is something I intend to bring up (politely and non-confrontationally, of course) at Roachfest.


THANK YOU! US is a mirror image of AS, on the east coast! Another nonstop transcon would open up connections to the 50 or so cities US serves from DCA. So the theory of one-stop connections for the AS and DL case really is not logical.

THANK YOU! US is a mirror image of AS, on the east coast! Another nonstop transcon would open up connections to the 50 or so cities US serves from DCA. So the theory of one-stop connections for the AS and DL case really is not logical.

But every city served out of DCA on US is also served via PIT, PHL, and CLT...so in essence there's already one-stop service from the West Coast to just about anywhere on the US Airways network.

I do agree, however, that a DCA-LAX or DCA-SFO transcon on US would be a nice addition to the network. The latter would be more likely, since Alaska already does a once-daily DCA-LAX nonstop (inherited from TWA).

Alaska already does a once-daily DCA-LAX nonstop (inherited from TWA).
The first Alaska DCA-SEA is the TWA slot that was used for DCA-LAX.

Alaska's DCA-LAX flight is a brand new perimeter rule slot exemption (along with their second DCA-SEA flight).

Another nonstop transcon would open up connections to the 50 or so cities US serves from DCA.

The authorities don't want to encourage true hubbing at DCA because there is heavy regional pressure to hold DCA traffic levels down. And US has true hubs to the north and south anyway. DCA is not a hub. When AS or DL get beyond-perimeter rights to serve DCA from western hubs, almost all the traffic is O/D'ing at DCA.

Are y'all for real? More whining about US not getting more DCA slots?

THANK YOU! US is a mirror image of AS, on the east coast! Another nonstop transcon would open up connections to the 50 or so cities US serves from DCA. So the theory of one-stop connections for the AS and DL case really is not logical.

Let's say you live in a mid-sized city (say, BNA) on the east coast. You have either direct access to DCA or a one-stop via PIT, CLT, PHL (or maybe even BOS or LGA).

Now, let's say you live in a midsized city on the west coast. City-LAX-PHL-DCA or city-west coast hub-east coast hub-DCA. On the east coast, you can do city-hub-dca or even city-dca already.

DL and AS are in a much better position to offer a one-connection shot to DCA to smaller and midsized western cities than US is. Plain and simple.

I think that Aloha should have received the LAX slot, myself, thus giving one shot access from the islands.

As has been noted, the feds don't want DCA turned into a hub, which is a byproduct of what would happen if they started giving US beyond perimeter slots. Heck, US used to (and still probably does, tho I've not had one in some time) offer connections thru DCA.

Forget for a second that most of the folks who read this are rabid fans of US and ask yourself in a neutral light why US (already the dominant carrier at a restricted entry airport) should get beyond perimeter slots?

Outside of increasing revenue to US, it really serves no purpose to those who live beyond the perimeter of increasing access to DCA.

Clue brings up some good points, but if this was a logical debate based on true need and utilization, Alaska would not have been awarded a second SEA-DCA slot. This is in fact, a political discussion driven by powerful Congressional Representatives and the media which is hopelessly biased to the LCCs as all that is goodness and light.

AS does not have the equipment or the volume to due justice to these routes. They pull up there next gen 737's and that is about as good as it gets. At least if an airline like US would have received the routes they could have fully utilized the routes with a 757 or an A321. UA gets one route and they are fully utilizing it with their 757s. So in this skewed debate, US should get the route as much as AS deserved it. US will probably soon be the only major who doesn't have long-haul out of DCA.

Plus, US would have offered far more connectivity and capacity on a non-stop DCA-LAX than AS has anyday of the week. At least you could code-share your way to Asia/Hawaii and beyond with the US/UA codeshare

AS does not have the equipment or the volume to due justice to these routes. They pull up their next gen 737's and that is about as good as it gets. At least if an airline like US would have received the routes they could have fully utilized the routes with a 757 or an A321.

Why is an A321 "doing justice" to a transcon route, but a 737NG isn't? The NG has almost as much capacity as a -57 anyway. AS is providing 350 seats daily DCA-SEA with quick one-stop connections to all of WA, OR, AS and British Columbia. That's a VERY effective use of the slot and US couldn't be as effective IMHO.

I sense a feeling that the exemptions go to airlines like America West so that John McCain won't have to be driven all the way to Dulles for his flight to Phoenix. That would be small-minded, and I'm sure that the Great Man wouldn't be small minded. Or would he?

Not to pick on McCain, but there were definitely some political factors at play in the exemption selections; Alaska, Utah and Arizona all have senior and powerful Republican Senators, all of whom wanted easy access to get back home out of DCA.

With respect to the connectivity argument, it works for HP to PHX, DL to SLC and AS to SEA, but why in the world was AS given a DCA-LAX exemption? That one, it seems to me, should have gone to US or UA. Now, if the Democrats take back the Senate, watch another exemption open up for SFO, where both Senators Feinstein and Boxer call home.

But every city served out of DCA on US is also served via PIT, PHL, and CLT...so in essence there's already one-stop service from the West Coast to just about anywhere on the US Airways network.

I do agree, however, that a DCA-LAX or DCA-SFO transcon on US would be a nice addition to the network. The latter would be more likely, since Alaska already does a once-daily DCA-LAX nonstop (inherited from TWA).


What you've said goes both ways. Just about every city served by AS in LAX is also served by SEA or PDX. In essence, there's already one-stop service from the East Coast to just about anywhere on the Alaska Airlines network.

Why is an A321 "doing justice" to a transcon route, but a 737NG isn't? The NG has almost as much capacity as a -57 anyway.


AS uses the 737-700 on the route, not the 737-900. The 737-700 is comprable to the A319, not the 321. The 321 has something like 40 more seats than the 737-700.

I sense a feeling that the exemptions go to airlines like America West so that John McCain won't have to be driven all the way to Dulles for his flight to Phoenix. That would be small-minded, and I'm sure that the Great Man wouldn't be small minded. Or would he?

Sen. McCain usually flys AA to PHX with a DFW connection..... or at least he flys that route a lot. Couldn't promise that he does it all the time.

My point precisely. I think at one point they used the 900 on the route then down gauged it to the 700. THEN they get another overlapping route with more capacity that will also more than likely be underutilized.

AS uses the 737-700 on the route, not the 737-900. The 737-700 is comprable to the A319, not the 321. The 321 has something like 40 more seats than the 737-700.

The 900 probably has weight/range restrictions flying out of DCA that a fully loaded 700 would not. From what I recall, the 900 has the same wing as the 800, but being stretched reduces range, etc. (similar to the 321 with the 320's wing) I would not be surprised if DCA is one of the first airports to see the 800's when they get on AS property.

[QUOTE=us2]Not to pick on McCain, but there were definitely some political factors at play in the exemption selections; Alaska, Utah and Arizona all have senior and powerful Republican Senators, all of whom wanted easy access to get back home out of DCA.QUOTE]

I wouldn't even look at it as picking on McCain. Given his chairmanship of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee and the fact that the America West PAC maxed out in contributions to him in 2003, it's a logical conclusion. Even if he flies AA home he is still taking care of a company located in his state that employees his constituents. And HP knew that when they lobbied him for the slot exemptions.

Not to pick on McCain, but there were definitely some political factors at play in the exemption selections; Alaska, Utah and Arizona all have senior and powerful Republican Senators, all of whom wanted easy access to get back home out of DCA.

With respect to the connectivity argument, it works for HP to PHX, DL to SLC and AS to SEA, but why in the world was AS given a DCA-LAX exemption? That one, it seems to me, should have gone to US or UA. Now, if the Democrats take back the Senate, watch another exemption open up for SFO, where both Senators Feinstein and Boxer call home.


I was really rooting for US to get the DCA-LAX slot.

I was really rooting for US to get the DCA-LAX slot.


I did not think they applied for the DCA-LAX Slots. They only applied for DCA-SFO and DCA-SJU

I was hoping they would have gotten SFO it would have fed a lot of traffic to UAL's international west coast gateway and vice versa. I know many business people really hate to fly into IAD and would much rather fly into DCA.

I remember just a few years back when US Airways had a hub at IAD. Tons of gates were there.

T

Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly did US Airways become the dominant airline at DCA? Were Allegheny and Piedmont so big there? It appears to me that they are bigger than the next two biggest airlines there combined (I would guess DL and AA).