Travel Technology - What do you want in an in-car navigation systems?

I've been selected to participate in market research involving in-car navigation units for a leading European research institute. In a few weeks, a large group of us will be introduced to various navigation system designs and we'll get to throw our opinions at them. It's a couple of hours per person, running over a few weeks' time. From hearing the appointment schedule, I'd guess there are probably somewhere between 50 and 100 participants.

Anyway, I just thought I'd solicit FT community opinions, since I'll probably be afforded the chance to provide suggestions above and beyond what they show us.

So, what do you want in an in-car navigation system? Any features that the industry hasn't added but you'd like to see? What do you hate about most of the existing models? Functional issues, ergo issues, anything. I have some of my own ideas, but I'd be honored to take some of the community's thoughts along with me as well.

Carphone integration, possibly through Bluetooth
Traffic information downloads through RDS/TIM

Something I'd like to see on future models:

Wireless keyboard for address entry
Interface or card slot for uploading locations through a PC program

So, what do you want in an in-car navigation system?


Thanks for asking!

Voice activated waypoint retrieval
Alternative routing function, based on traffic alerts/weather
Hours of operation/phone number in points of interest database with ability to call via a linked cell phone
Topography display option
Classic FM's Late Night Lisa (http://www.classicfm.com/index.cfm?nodeId=64&sw=1024)'s voice for the directions

To me, the user navigiation interface is the most important. A car system should be relatively easy to use with minimal screens/data entry needed while the vehicle is in motion.

To me this would be the perfect unit:

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/sony-nvxyz-navi-profiled-016077.php

All the extra gadgets are nice but not that appealing to me. I'd gladly give up all the Bluetooth-phone-link/voice-activation/stock-downloading crap for one unit with good usability.

I have experience with several that were infuriating to use, including the Hertz contraptions ("BONK!...BONK!...M!..................IIIIIIIIIIIIII II! (****)" ...ACQUIRING GPS...) - you know.

The one in the Porsche Cayenne (at least here in Spain) is so horrible I understand people are demanding their money back. The problem? The name comes second in our street names: Carrer Sant Francesc vs. San Francisco St. The Cayenne requires you to spell out the first word: Carrer, Calle, Avinguda, etc. when inputting a street name. Every time. So if I want to go to the street above I have to spell out C-A-R-R-E-R-space-S-A-N-T and so on. Searching for just SANT FRANCESC gets no hits.

These kind of obvious oversights or shortsights seriously impact the user experience.

By contrast, I bought a Blaupunkt RNS150 TravelPilot about 2 1/2 years ago. It's an integrated tuner-CD-Nav system that fits in a standard DIN dash opening, and has a small B/W screen that just shows an overview indicating your next maneuver. I love that thing. I brought it with me to Europe and when I buy another car I will install it in a heartbeat. It has its share of quirks but overall the process of inputting or recalling a destination is quick and painless, the directions accurate, and the low-res map suprisingly adequate. I've never once wished for the big color overview that the EverLost has. I think the main reason this is such a great unit is the interest and responsiveness of the people at Bosch. Right after I bought the thing, got it installed and calibrated, I was frustrated because when you put in a street name it would pull up a "type-ahead" list of partial matches. But the display was low-res enough that you couldn't read them all - you'd get a list like:

NW 148th Avenue N
NW 148th Avenue N
NW 148th Avenue S
NW 148th Avenue S

And not know which is which. If you selected one to see the full name and it wasn't what you wanted, you could hit escape but your typing and the list would be gone and you had to start all over again. So I sent a mail to Bosch *****ing about this. A couple days later they mailed me back asking how I thought it should work (along with other questions about comments I had). Two months later I got a CD-ROM in the mail with a firmware update that changed the behavior along with a couple others and added some new features.

So, that's what I want. A device that's been tested, had the bugs really worked out, and is a joy to use rather than a PITA.



I'm not even interested in the clunky Alipine thing with the IR remote sticking up out of the dash or the Kenwood with graphics that look like a Commodore VIC-20.

I wish mine had local yellow & white pages loaded on it.

I wish mine had local yellow & white pages loaded on it.

Most decent units will have the Yellow pages.

Just want one, or anything, that really knows where the one way streets are, and the no left turns for the next three miles.

Haven't found one in PocketPC, BMW, Porsche, Acura, MB, MIO, Palm or NAVTECH.

Bluetooth integration.
discreet vocabulary recognition
SD slot, or BT integration with internal memory access for easy updating of the POI databases.
TOUCHSCREEN!!!
Heads up display HUD for easier visibility of arrows.

Most decent units will have the Yellow pages.

My 2004 Lexus doesn't... :(

Big breasts.

You're welcome. :)

Big breasts.

You're welcome. :)


PremEx you're OFF the map tonite

:-)

I don't think 'in-car' is the way to go. I think the in-car models cost 2 to 3 times as much as an out of car device costs (selling factory options is a very high margin business), and still the out of car devices have much better refined UIs, better routing ability, easier base map upgrade process, etc.

IMO, the best in class here in the Garmin iQue 3600 (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Garmin+iQue+3600%22), this is the standard the in car models need to meet or exceed.

I'm the kind of guy who is happy with my old Nokia 8260..... No need for color phone, fancy ring tones, etc etc.

So my dream Nav system is one that is SIMPLE, gives me a big screen with a legible map, and an intuitive user interface. I would rather not have a lot of functions, such as radio, HVAC, etc., built into the Nav screen. Also, it is important that the Nav gives clear audio route instructions.

For example, I hate the way BMW integrates everything into their Nav system. Their iDrive is horrible, but a much simpler implementation in MINIs work much better. Hertz's neverlost gives great audio route instructions, but the screen is just too small, and washes out too easily in direct sunlight.

Obviously, a good database is a requirement.

Touchscreen is very valuable. My wife's car as a GPS with touchscreen and it's vastly superior in usability compared to "stick-driven" units. Also, the ability to scroll the map via touch is useful when looking to see what's ahead.

Steve

A couple of years ago on a Mercedes S class the navigation system was so complicated and difficult to use, we swore we'd never get one again. Our new Toyota Highlander came with one, and for awhile that was the only reason we almost didn't buy it. But now we (or I should say I, since hubby is the type whose never been able to even set up the presets for car radios) love it! I didn't even have to use the instruction booklet for the more simple functions.
What I'd love is if they could intergrate a CD video player into the screen.

I don't think 'in-car' is the way to go. I think the in-car models cost 2 to 3 times as much as an out of car device costs (selling factory options is a very high margin business), and still the out of car devices have much better refined UIs, better routing ability, easier base map upgrade process, etc.

IMO, the best in class here in the Garmin iQue 3600 (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Garmin+iQue+3600%22), this is the standard the in car models need to meet or exceed.

That is IMHO not a good option, simply because it depends 100% on GPS.

All decent units combine gyro's, GPS, Tacho sensors and a digital compass to determine your position. relying purely on GPS is not wise and in many cities simply not possible.

As nice as the iQue may look I'd hardly consider it to be a full replacement device for navigation.

If it is an in car system, it must be DVD not CD. I have a Mercedes CLK500 which comes with a CD system and discs for each geographic region. This is outdated technology and DVD with one disc for the entire USA & Canada is a must.

A choice of voices (both male & female) would also be nice.

Just bought a Garmin 2620 as a present for my dad. Its pretty nice. Here are some nice features by comparison to the system built into my Acura MDX:

It has all of the US maps integrated on one 2.2 gig smart card hard drive, so you don't have to load different maps when you travel to different parts of the country.

After boot up, it goes through the warning screens and shows the map without having to hit the OK button to acknowledge the safety warning.

It displays the name of the upcoming cross street in the display so you always know if your turn is the next one.

On the downside: it seems to take longer to acquire the satellites than my Acura navigation system and the screen could be bigger

The NAV systems must have security built in, so you can lock unauthorized users from tapping into the history of the addresses.

It should have a "lo-jack" type of capability, so you can recover your car if it's stolen.

It must automatically dial 911 and alert the authorities if you get into an accident.

It must be able to accept infrared addresses from PDA's for quick trip calculations.

It would be very nice to have internet connection so you can google for directions, look up addresses, etc.

Aftermarket may "sound" better.. but there is no access to a gyroscope, digital compass, wheel sensor, speed feedback. So when you lose the signal (e.g. cities)... YOU ARE toast...

Better integrated units will become the norm... High end Aftermarket will go the way of the dinosaur on new cars by 2008...

What I would like... Someone in the US to transmit traffic data!!! TMC would be nice.

A lot of good stuff here. And I hate to say it, but PremEx's concept is one I could embrace. ;)

The session is scheduled for July 7th, so still plenty of time for more input if you come up with more ideas. The institute has now said that it involves three test cars/units, with on-road observed usage, followed by an interview and an opportunity to provide additional input above and beyond these units.

Interface or card slot for uploading locations through a PC program

Most of the aftermarket units, particularly the better Garmin units, can take waypoints and the like on the CF cards.

Aftermarket may "sound" better.. but there is no access to a gyroscope, digital compass, wheel sensor, speed feedback. So when you lose the signal (e.g. cities)... YOU ARE toast...

Better integrated units will become the norm... High end Aftermarket will go the way of the dinosaur on new cars by 2008...

Better units like the Garmin 2650 (and forthcoming 2660) already do dead reckoning (using the compass/gyro and speedo outputs when GPS info is lost). And these units have far better interface designs and have far more features than the average factory installation. And, if you don't mind living without DR, some of these units are portable from car to car (as the owner of a relatively ancient GPS V, I can tell you that it's great to be able to plop down in a rental car without worrying about Neverlost or anything else).

High end aftermarket is only going to die if the OEMs get vendors like Garmin and Magellan to build the units, as they both currently produce high end aftermarket units that blow away 95 percent of what comes factory installed these days.

Aftermarket may "sound" better.. but there is no access to a gyroscope, digital compass, wheel sensor, speed feedback. So when you lose the signal (e.g. cities)... YOU ARE toast...

Better integrated units will become the norm... High end Aftermarket will go the way of the dinosaur on new cars by 2008...

What I would like... Someone in the US to transmit traffic data!!! TMC would be nice.

In one of my cars, I use a bluetooth GPS receiver, and a PDA. I find that I really do'nt loose signal in cities, even NYC and San Francisco. Only place I lose the signal is the tunnels to Bronx and New Jersey, but once I get out it is about 2 seconds before it comes back.

I get speed, altitude and of course locations data.

A neat point with the system I use, Copilot, is that it transmits my location through my BT phone, back to my website so my #1 1K GF can see where I am when I am traveling.

Currently, Copilot is tranmitting traffic data, updates and rerouting in Michigan I think as a test. I haven't been able to try that though.

Of all the portable ssytems I have tried, I like this one the best for price performance. I might buy one of the magellens that are now out, the 700 for #1 1K GF, it seems to be getting good review.

But, checkout this tomtom ONE. That looks to be really sweet

1. Accurate maps. Several months ago, I rented a car from Hertz with the GPS system. While traveling on a relatively new freeway, I kept getting a message telling me to get back on the road. I guess it thought I was doing 70 mph over fields and streams.

2. The ability to learn. If it provides you a routing between 2 destinations which you consistantly ignore, it should either include that route as a alternative or "inquire" why you use that route (traffic, construction, pool with sunbathers, etc.)

- Real-time traffic information factored into routing decisions
- Feedback on map errors and actually fixing them
- Downloading map updates automatically

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the Garmin StreetPilot III.

QL

OTA (Over the air) map updates already happen on some Japanese systems in trial.... The dataset has a version number, when in a new area the system will use the mobile phone modem (WCDMA or CDMAOne) as a data connection to verify if the in use data set has updates. This will require an annual dataset subscription.

Here in the US the datasets are primarilly from Navteq (used to be called NavTech)... They are quite on the ball with updates, however it still means you need to buy them. Hertz doesn't always update their units (which BTW is one of the worst systems out there now)

1. Accurate maps. Several months ago, I rented a car from Hertz with the GPS system. While traveling on a relatively new freeway, I kept getting a message telling me to get back on the road. I guess it thought I was doing 70 mph over fields and streams.

2. The ability to learn. If it provides you a routing between 2 destinations which you consistantly ignore, it should either include that route as a alternative or "inquire" why you use that route (traffic, construction, pool with sunbathers, etc.)

GPS by nature and design is fairly inaccurate, down to about 100 ft. I think, or maybe it was meters. Regardless, a device is doing and interpolation of GPS coordintes, speed, direction, elevation and alignment to maps. For any given reason there might a poor opportunity for interpreting the poor data, trying to triangulate down to 3-5 meters square.

I am skeptical that sometimes the sat data is purposefully degraded. Who knows the reasons.

The european system coming up, will supposedly bring military level of accuracy to a consumer level deliver and devices. I won't ,keep my fingers crossed though and find the mapping pretty accurate nonetheless.

We had a very early Garmin GPS plotter on our boat in the 1990's. The accuracy was within 100 meters. During the Gulf War, I can tell you for certain that the accuracy was distorted. The technology was called "Selective Availability"

I have a handheld Magellan with WAAS which is supposed to be accurate to within three meters. I've takend it all over California, Vancouver, B.C. and London with very good and accurate results. I can tell you that a few days ago, I stood at the Prime Meridian at Greenwich and the GPS was very close.

I have had trouble with map readings from time to time; when I was in Hawai`i earlier this year, it was pretty bad. When I called Magellan, their response was that the GPS was accurate, but the map software was not accurately showing where the roads really were.

I believe the software car GPS units use has a feature that if you are within a few feet of a road, it places the cursor on the road and assumes you are driving on it, even if the actual reading may be off. I have experienced a few frustrating situations with the Hertz Magellan system where I have been driving along I-80 in Oakland and the unit showed my position as somewhere in the San Francisco Bay.

1. Accurate maps. Several months ago, I rented a car from Hertz with the GPS system. While traveling on a relatively new freeway, I kept getting a message telling me to get back on the road. I guess it thought I was doing 70 mph over fields and streams.


To clarify, the device had my position fairly accurately (based on cross roads, etc.). However, the freeway did not appear on the GPS system's map. To it, I was driving where there wasn't a road anywhere nearby.

I believe the software car GPS units use has a feature that if you are within a few feet of a road, it places the cursor on the road and assumes you are driving on it, even if the actual reading may be off. I have experienced a few frustrating situations with the Hertz Magellan system where I have been driving along I-80 in Oakland and the unit showed my position as somewhere in the San Francisco Bay.

Most medium to high end Garmin and Magellan systems "lock to road."

That makes the assumption, of course, that the map and the position agree within the magic tolerance as to whether or not you are actually on the road.

More often than not it's the maps that are off, not the GPS. Now that the US government has disabled selected availability, a 12 channel receiver (most newer units are) can get you to within 50 feet most of the time. Without WAAS enabled and driving in the midwest (eg, flat terrain), my Garmin typically estimates it's accuracy to within 50 feet (in all three dimensions). With WAAS enabled, that generally drops to under 20 provided it can lock the WAAS sat (and that you are relatively close to one of the WAAS reference stations on the ground). In the hills of Western PA, I used to see 20-50 feet of estimated accuracy almost all the time--assuming the maps are correct, this should get you almost to the lane you are in.

The maps are often wrong. The "basemap" built into some units is typically way wrong. I've driven from CLE to NYC along I-80 and never had the unit lock the road, despite the fact that I know I'm on it.

I'd settle for a handheld autorouting device (like a GPS-V or GPS-60C) that takes a CF card. That way, you could carry the entire CONUS mapset around with you in your laptop bag. I like the fact that I can throw the V in my pocket and go, but 20mb of map data won't even cover the entire Bay area, NYC metro, etc....

Well, I had my day in nav-system court today :)

I had to sign a rather broad non-disclosure agreement, so unfortunately I can't share much of anything. It'll have to suffice that I took every opportunity to present your collective inputs. Most items here served to complement each other, so it was easy to categorize and put down on paper. The overall question is always how much the customer is willing to pay for the various pieces of functionality, but they weren't overly concerned with that question anyway, so no problem there.

The additional main items that I presented to them were:

-- the ability to enter a destination as coordinates (lat/long, etc.)

-- ability to plan a multiple-stop journey on a desktop PC using data sets identical to that of the nav system, then transfer the entire journey to the nav system. (Some of the inputs here involved data transfer, but I interpreted those as dealing with points-of-interest transfer, rather than preplanning a complex journey.)

-- ability to load multiple destinations and have the system calculate the optimal journey to reach all of them, then return to starting point. (i.e., you have three items to drop off at three different places and you don't care in what order you do it--what's the fastest/shortest way to do that, then get back to home/workplace?)

It was a well-spent two hours and I look forward to us all seeing our ideas on our dashboards someday. :p

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and helping energize the session. I was well-armed and the interviewers seemed to appreciate that (although I have no idea what they said as I walked out the door ;) )