Air France Frequence Plus - CDG2E roof collapse - 4 Dead

BBC is reporting a roof collapse at CDG Airport. Casualties are reported. No link yet.

From Le Monde:
Quatre personnes ont trouvé la mort et au moins trois autres ont été blessées dimanche matin dans l'effondrement d'une passerelle au terminal 2E de l'aéroport de Roissy, selon des pompiers sur place

Wasn't this terminal just opened? BBC is reporting 4 dead, 10 injured so far.

They say 5 dead now :

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_eu/france_airport_collapse&cid=518&ncid=716

And it gets worse

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/05/23/paris.roofcollapse/index.html

As I posted at TravelBuzz, check your flights in and out of CDG 2 today - 2E is apparently closed to all passengers and there are no planes on the tarmac (according to the last report I saw on LCI at 12:30 CET).

2E was opened (late) in June 2003.

I don't imagine this will advance the French government's/ADP's hopes of a successful share offering in 2005 ...

From the AF web site (http://double6.airfrance.fr/double6/Y1/infogles.nsf/(LookupPublishedWeb)/fr-NLPRL-052301?OpenDocument):

Roissy, 23 mai 2004

Effondrement à Paris Charles de Gaulle Terminal 2E


Air France exprime, à la suite de l'effondrement ce matin d'une partie du toit du terminal 2E de l'aéroport de Roissy-Charles-de-Gaulle, sa compassion à l'égard des personnes victimes de cet accident et de leurs proches.
La compagnie les assure de son plein soutien moral et matériel.

Air France rappelle également le numéro mis par Aéroports de Paris à la disposition des familles et des proches :

01 48 64 59 59

Le président d'Air France, Jean-Cyril Spinetta, s'est immédiatement rendu sur place afin de se rendre compte de la situation.

La compagnie met tout en œuvre pour assurer la poursuite de son exploitation : la soixantaine de vols partant ou arrivant au terminal 2E seront traités dans les 5 autres terminaux (2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2F). Compte tenu de cet événement, des retards sont cependant à prévoir. Le terminal 2E regroupe essentiellement des vols long et moyen-courriers d'Air France.

Air France va mettre en place un numéro vert à l'attention de ses passagers afin de les informer en temps réel des départs et des arrivées prévues ce jour :

0 800 800 812

this is such terrible news ; my condolences to all affected.

paul andreu, the former chief architect of ADP, and the designer of 2E, is also a registered engineer. i hope the investigation will show how such a major structural flaw (if indeed there was no foul play) was incorporated into the terminal's design.

When I was checking in for my flight from Toulouse this morning they started asking people in the line if they had a connection in 2E at CDG which I did. They then told me I would need to go to the ticket counter to be reticketed as terminal 2E had collapsed. At that time i think they thought it was the entire building and terrorism was feared.

When at the ticket counter there was a bit more info so we knew that it was only part of the building. They then informed me that flights to NYC were "special" and that all flights to NYC were on hold with a status of unknown. They wanted to reroute me to another european city but I was meeting a friend in Paris who would join me on the flight. They were unsure what they were doing with the passengers in Paris and if he would even be able to travel today so I didnt think that would be a good option. They placed a call to Paris to find out if they were going to board any flights to NYC and they could not give any answers. So they reticketed us for tomorrow.

When I landed from Toulouse, I could see the large section of the new terminal that was collapsed as well as several emergency vehicules in the area. The mood in the airport was calm and orderly and I think many were probably unaware of the accident.

I feel for all that were involved and feel lucky that it didnt happen while I was there.

My son and daughter-in-law flew out of 2C on CO 57 at 9:55AM and said that they had no clue that there was any kind of problem at CDG today

What is so scary now is that they say that other recently built terminals could be in danger. I was at CDG last time 16 years ago. I assume the older terminals are safe. It's the newer ones that are now questionable.

I always avoided CDG as they are known to lose connecting baggage. Now I have an additional reason to avoid it.

What is so scary now is that they say that other recently built terminals could be in danger.

"They " ??

French authority is launching emergency investigation to check whether the rest of CDG T2 are safe or not.

"They " ??

What is so scary now is that they say that other recently built terminals could be in danger. I was at CDG last time 16 years ago. I assume the older terminals are safe. It's the newer ones that are now questionable.

I always avoided CDG as they are known to lose connecting baggage. Now I have an additional reason to avoid it.

I'm sorry, but I find your supposition ludicrous.

Looking at the design of the terminal and the lack of internal column supports, I'm left wondering why they chose a heavy building material like concrete. Surely the same design could have been done with lighter materials.

My sincere condolences go out to FT members based in Paris who may have had friends, colleagues or relatives who were lost or injured in this terrible disaster.

>>I'm sorry, but I find your supposition ludicrous>>

My supposition? You think I "invented" it. The BBC and Reuters indicated that they are worried about the safety of all the recently constructed terminals. Complain to them if you do not believe it. I am not an architect and I did not check the terminals myself.

Flew into CDG from JFK on Sunday AM. As we were landing (appx 10AM), we were told that 2E was "closed", and we were diverted to T1. We parked at a remote pad, transferred by bus to T1 (Sat 2, IIRC). There were no AF staff in T1 to direct passengers with connections, no information about baggage. The cabin crew said to ask the ground staff for information - only there wasn't any. By the time we got from the aircraft to T1, then to Sat 3 for the shuttle bus to T2C, it was 45+ minutes. At least the arrivals lounge was empty, and thankfully, we had a 3+ hour connect. Four sets of stairs to lug the carryons up/down.

Anyone going through CDG from/to the US should definitely plan for extra time if they are planning to use T1 as the overflow point.

No other news from here in ATH - just some CNN, BBC, and SkyNews feeds.

Looking at the design of the terminal and the lack of internal column supports, I'm left wondering why they chose a heavy building material like concrete. Surely the same design could have been done with lighter materials.

FWIW, the former Kingdome in Seattle had a concrete roof with no internal columns or supports. Far bigger than the roof at 2E. It only fell down during a controlled implosion. Light weight does not automatically make it a more durable, or stabler structure.

>>I'm sorry, but I find your supposition ludicrous>>

My supposition? You think I "invented" it. The BBC and Reuters indicated that they are worried about the safety of all the recently constructed terminals. Complain to them if you do not believe it. I am not an architect and I did not check the terminals myself.

The articles I read (in the mainstream press, btw) discussed 2E's very unorthodox construction methods, using tunnel technology. None of the other terminals use this technology, so why group them together?

I just think we should wait until we have all the facts before promoting paranoia, rushing for new reasons to "boycott" ALL of CDG.

Construction workers have been evacuated from the terminal 2E at Charles de Gaulle airport after cracking sounds were heard from the roof of the departure hall.
The workers were attempting to make the terminal safe after part of the ceiling collapsed onto a waiting area yesterday, killing four people. No members of the public are being allowed into the building.
A huge slab of the futuristic terminal roof collapsed on Sunday morning, raining chunks of concrete, metal and glass onto those below.
Pierre Graff, Chairman of Aeroports de Paris (ADP), has said the whole of the terminal will be pulled down if the building turns out to be unsafe.
The £500 million terminal was opened less than a year ago. If the roof had collapsed at a busier time, hundreds of people could have been killed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/24/ufrancad.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/24/ixportaltop.html

I think the confusion and reroutings to other terminals would be the only "short-term reason" not to use CDG. I would hope in the medium term they will sort out the logistics and everything will be back to relatively normal in a month or two.

Remember you still have a better chance of getting hit/killed in your car--and most of us aren't giving up driving!

>>I just think we should wait until we have all the facts before promoting paranoia, rushing for new reasons to "boycott" ALL of CDG.[/QUOTE]>>

I don't think anyone is promoting a boycott. The only reason I "personally" do not travel through CDG anymore is because I, my sister and my aunt lost our baggage on 3 totally different connecting flights. They were found a week later but it was quite a hassle.

Yes of course it can happen at any airport but it has never happened to us through London nor Amsterdam.

Terminal 2E is only the sixth part of CDG 2.

Before 2E was (partially) opened in June 2003, AF used only the 5 other parts 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D and 2F.

All flights departing from or arriving at 2E (about 60 flights) will simply be dispatched to the other terminals of CDG2, so the situation at CDG2 should be the same as before june 2003.

CDG1 (the oldest terminal, located about 1.5 miles away from 2A) is only
used by non-Skyteam airlines.

Yep, but there is now more pressure at CDG2 than was the case a year ago, with some airlines transferred to CDG2 (eg: BA, KL)

Click on the ADPwebsite at:

http://www.adp.fr/webadp/a_cont01_an.nsf/0/A806156E4C6A964CC1256ABE004858F6/$File/cdg2gran.gif

and see that see that 2E has been completely removed. Also most of the references to it are now gone throughout the website. The only way to see where it is is/was is on the parking diagram.

I'm sorry, but I find your supposition ludicrous.


I wanted to send a complain to ADP (Aeroport de paris, which is the company that 'manage' the airport) for the poor service we get in Terminal 2E.
Each time I used it arriving from Asia or America these last four months, we could not use the terminal normally but had to use a airport bus.

Now, I must admit that I have no more reason to complain...

With this problem, the huge disaster of developping an internal shuttle, and the continuous problems with checking and loosing luggages, I do not think ADP is doing really a good job...

But obviously, I am schocked to think that four people lost their lives in this incident. I do not know yet if they were flight attendant, pax or other people, - anyaway that does not make difference - but obviously they did not desserve that.

Looking at the design of the terminal and the lack of internal column supports, I'm left wondering why they chose a heavy building material like concrete. Surely the same design could have been done with lighter materials.

You are showing some technical ignorance here. Just one example: the Pantheon is the largest intact classical building in Rome and it also has what was the largest free-standing dome until the Renaisannce. The dome is, famously, made of concrete, and has lasted for nigh on 2000 years.

You are showing some technical ignorance here. Just one example: the Pantheon is the largest intact classical building in Rome and it also has what was the largest free-standing dome until the Renaisannce. The dome is, famously, made of concrete, and has lasted for nigh on 2000 years.

Truly impressive, and I believe the diameter is actually bigger than the dome of St. Peter's across the Tiber? I didn't know it was made of concrete (thought it was stone). All the more impressive if it really is.

Aya Sofya is much larger, more impressive and is the example you are truly looking for here.

You are showing some technical ignorance here. Just one example: the Pantheon is the largest intact classical building in Rome and it also has what was the largest free-standing dome until the Renaisannce. The dome is, famously, made of concrete, and has lasted for nigh on 2000 years.

Domes are much more stable than arcs (especially elipse arcs like in CDG). It's just like an egg - the top of the egg (like a dome) is much stronger than the side of it (elipse arc).

In a dome (or in a round arc), the base of it holds all the rest of the structure. In an elipse arc, the load is not shared evenly.

If you go out to your backyard and try to build an arc from stones, you will find that once you stable it, it can hold forever (unless the wind of the dog breaks it). However, if you take out one stone from teh structure, the whole thing will collapse.

Early reports showed that there were cracks in the building and policemen were trying to clean the terminal area just before it collapsed (they said 3 policemen were among the 4 dead).

My guess is that the type of concrete they used was not strong enough for the type of structure and once the 1st cracks started, the collapse was just around the corner. It might also prove that this type of structure cannot hold without extra support (or there isn't any type of concrete that can hold it)

Wow. I landed in 2E about a week or so ago, I think on an AF LHR-CDG flight. All I remember though was how long a walk it was to the RER. I'm leaving from CDG back to LHR in 4 or 5 days. I guess I had better arrive early. Tomorrow I fly LH from FRA to CDG but I think they use T1.

Aya Sofya is much larger, more impressive and is the example you are truly looking for here.

This is getting a little OT, but for the record:
The dome of the Hagia Sofia is also built of concrete, but I don't agree about it being "much larger." The key technical measurement for a dome is its diameter (not height). Here is how some famous domes compare:
Pantheon - 43.3 m
St. Peter's - 42.5 m
Hagia Sofia - 30.3 m

I may in fact have understated the case for the Pantheon - its diameter was not surpassed until the 20th century?

From today's NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/international/europe/26airp.html?ex=1400904000&en=f34b44248a0b38ac&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND):


The French architect who designed the futuristic terminal building at Charles de Gaulle International Airport that partly collapsed Sunday visited the site on Tuesday. Airport officials said the damaged terminal could remain closed for up to a year.

The architect, Paul Andreu, who perhaps more than any other has set the standard for how airport terminals are designed, went directly from an airplane that had carried him from Beijing to a meeting with investigators trying to determine the cause of the accident.

... Mr. Andreu, 65, did not speak to reporters. But as attention focused on the columns that supported the elliptical concrete shell of the terminal, experts suggested that the collapse was more likely caused by construction errors than by the design.

... Several experts argue that Mr. Andreu's design, while visually unusual, depended on known engineering concepts and applications, and was probably not to blame.

Interesting article in the International Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=523415.html) this weekend:


New theory on collapse of airport terminal

Nicola Clark International Herald Tribune
Saturday, June 05, 2004


Consultant suggests building at CDG could be reparable

PARIS Detailed photographs taken shortly after the partial collapse of a passenger terminal at Roissy-Charles de Gaulle Airport last month appear to offer an alternative to initial theories that cracks in the concrete pillars supporting the structure were to blame for the deadly accident.

Instead of the pillars, a section of the terminal's curved wall may have been the location at fault.

The photographs, taken by an airline employee within hours of the collapse of a 30-meter, or 100-foot, section of Terminal 2E's 700-meter-long arched roof, have not been seen publicly. But according to one engineer who has studied them, they could ultimately prove that the damage is sufficiently limited as to rule out demolition of the entire E750 million, or $900 million, structure.

"My opinion is that the collapse was a local collapse that had to do with very specific conditions," said Henry Bardsley, an engineer whose company, RFR, was a design consultant for the glass roof that spans a portion of Terminal 2F nearby and did similar work on the airport's high-speed rail terminus. Both structures were conceived by Paul Andreu, the former chief architect for Aéroports de Paris, the airport's state-owned operator.

"The building is reparable, and it should be," Bardsley said.

Bardsley, who is not involved in the investigation of the collapse, based his theory largely on a series of about 40 unpublished and highly detailed photographs that were taken immediately after the accident by a person who had unfettered access to the site. The author of the photographs requested anonymity, but copies of them were shown to the International Herald Tribune.

Just got this e-mail from Air France. I'll try to post an English version later.



Madame, Monsieur,

Suite à l'accident survenu au Terminal 2E de l'aéroport de Paris-Charles de
Gaulle, nous souhaitons vous informer personnellement des mesures prises
par Air France, en étroite collaboration avec ADP (Aéroports de Paris), afin de
maintenir la régularité, la ponctualité des vols et notre qualité de service.

ADP, en liaison avec la Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile, travaille encore
aujourd'hui à répartir les compagnies suivant les aéroports afin de diminuer au
maximum les désagréments pour les passagers.

Concernant Air France, tous les vols initialement prévus au départ du
Terminal 2E sont assurés au départ des terminaux : A - B - C - D et F.
Par ailleurs, les vols de notre partenaire KLM partent désormais du Terminal
2F pour une correspondance plus rapide avec nos vols et ceux de SkyTeam.

Quelques changements d'horaires et de terminaux ayant été nécessaires,
vous pouvez consulter le site Internet d'Air France (http://www.airfrance.fr),
ou vous renseigner auprès de votre agence de voyages ou de votre agence Air France.

A l'aéroport de Paris-Charles de Gaulle, la fermeture du Terminal 2E entraîne
une plus forte affluence dans les autres terminaux, notamment dans les
salons. Les règles d'accès à ces salons restent inchangées. Toutefois nous
pourrons être parfois contraints d'en limiter provisoirement l'accès ; en cas de
saturation, un bon de rafraîchissement vous sera remis à l'entrée. Par ailleurs,
le salon « Arrivée » du Terminal 2C est très provisoirement fermé.

Pour faciliter votre enregistrement, depuis le 7 juin, vous pouvez vous pré-
enregistrer à partir de notre site http://www.airfrance.fr, jusqu'à 30 minutes
avant l'heure limite d'enregistrement. Vous pouvez également vous pré-
enregistrer par téléphone via notre serveur vocal interactif au 0 897 65 08 20
50 (0,56 Euros T.T.C. par appel). Si vous n'avez pas de bagage, une fois à l'aéroport,
vous pouvez ensuite émettre votre carte d'embarquement directement sur une
borne libre-service.

En outre, nous renforçons l'assistance personnalisée à nos passagers en
correspondance courte (entre 30 et 45 minutes) vers un de nos vols long-
courrier en « l'Espace Première » ou « l'Espace Affaires ».

Nous tenons ainsi à vous confirmer que notre compagnie met tout en oeuvre
pour continuer à répondre avec efficacité à vos besoins de voyages.

Nous vous remercions de votre confiance et vous prions de croire Madame,
Monsieur, à l'expression de nos salutations distinguées.

Christian BOIREAU
Directeur Général Commercial France

Here's a rough, but understandable translation from babelfish:

Madam, Sir, Following l'accident to the Terminal 2E of l'aéroport of Paris-Charles of Gaulle, we wish to personally inform you of the measurements taken by Air France, in close cooperation with ADP (Airports of Paris), in order to maintain the regularity, the punctuality of the flights and our quality of service. ADP, in connection with the Directorate-General of Civil l Aviation, still works aujourd'hui to distribute the companies according to the airports in order to decrease to the maximum the nuisances for the passengers. Concerning Air France, all the flights initially envisaged at the beginning of the Terminal 2E are ensured at the beginning of the terminals: With - B - C - D and F. In addition, the flights of our partner KLM leave from now on Terminal 2F for a faster correspondence with our flights and those SkyTeam. Some changes d'horaires and of terminals having been necessary, you can consult Internet site to d'Air France (http://www.airfrance.fr), or to inform you near your your agency or travel agency Air France. With l'aéroport of Paris-Charles of Gaulle, the closing of the Terminal 2E involves a stronger multitude in the other terminals, in particular in the living rooms. The rules d'accès with these living rooms remain unchanged. However we could be sometimes constrained d'en to limit l'accès temporarily; in the event of saturation, a good of cooling will be given to you to l'entrée. In addition, the living room "Arrived" of the Terminal 2C is very temporarily closed. To facilitate your recording, since June 7, you can preregister yourselves starting from our site http://www.airfrance.fr, jusqu'à 30 minutes before l'heure limits d'enregistrement. You can also preregister you by telephone via our interactive vocal waiter to the 0 897 65 08 20 50 (0,56 Euros T.T.C. by call). If you do not have any luggage, once at l'aéroport, you can then emit your chart d'embarquement directly on a terminal self-service. Moreover, we reinforce l'assistance personalized with our passengers in short correspondence (between 30 and 45 minutes) towards one of our flights long-distance carrier in "l'Espace Première" or "l'Espace Affaires". We thus make a point assure you that our company puts all works about it to continue to answer with effectiveness your needs for voyages. We thank you for your confidence and we remain sincerely yours Commercial Christian BOIREAU General manager France