Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - LH New Business Class

Anyone tried sleeping on the LH new business class seat? I flew EZE-FRA a couple of weeks ago, and was somewhat underwhelmed - when fully reclined the middle of the seat somehow protruded into the small of my back; sleeping in a jack-knifed position is difficult if not impossible. Attempts to rectify this were fruitless as all power to the seat had failed, and was not restored until shortly before landing. BA NCW it ain't.

More positively, later the same trip I flew transatlantic with Austrian for the first time. Fantastic - among the best food I've had on a plane, great staff, new aircraft etc. LH could learn from them.

Sleeping is next to imposible in the fully flat position. The seat is at such a downward angle that your legs are supporting all of your bodies weight trying to prevent you from crumpling up. I too was very dissapointed in the seats! I will also add that the placement of the TV is horrible. If you choose to sit in the "relax" position your knees get raised and your head lowered. For a man my height (6 feet) my knees now blocked my line of sight to the screen. I had to sit with my legs spread open (not comfortable) to see the screen.

Yes, I still enjoy the new seats over the old ones but it doesn't compare to BA or SQ. For me, a United guy, I would take their C seats over the new LH seat in terms of comfort still.

To me the real upside of LH Business class is the food and wine -any change here over the old service?

Well, I half-agree.

I tried the new C class on a FRA-YYZ-FRA flight (A346) a few weeks ago. They seem to have a few teething problems, and there is usually at least one IT engineer on board to fix the seat/IFE electrics (or simply to explain how the system works).

The fully-flat position is too inclined and you do find yourself sliding a little bit. I also feel a bit too close to the floor (has anyone else felt this?) The relax position turned out to be a bit more comfortable for sleeping. Why is it that Recaro always need to do re-engineering?

Still, I prefer the new seats over the old ones and also UA's current seat. I'm on MUC-MIA in a few weeks, so I'll report back then.

I was on the new LH 340-600 last week from FRA to YYZ. I agree that the seats are superior to the old ones in C class. However, I was having difficulties finding a position that is truly comfortable (maybe it's my inability to operate the buttons). The message button did not seem to work on my seat. Also, the on-demand movies were not working.

Has LH made the change in biz on all their aircraft? I'm on a 340 at the end of the month (EWR-FRA), and was looking for some guidance as to the best seat for a solo traveller. :cool:

Flew the New C Class on FRA-YYZ on Tuesday. (2G)
Got an Operation upgrade. Being on a V class ticket, that was a great gift. ^

As I had never flown the "old" C class, I cannot compare but I have to say that I had a wonderful flight.
I liked the near flat bed. After lunch, I slept like a baby for at least 3 hours.
The noise level was really low. I felt like I was on a train. The little compartment for glasses is a great idea. The shoe rack is good.

The IFE was great but it is not ON DEMAND yet. The FA told us that movies would start an hour after take off so I turned it off. 45mn after departure, I turned it back on and was not to happy to see that everything had started. :confused: So I had to wait 2 hours to get the movie again.
I am only 5"10 and had no problem watching the screen in any position.
The headsets were too tight and I ended up with sore ears :eek:

I did not take advantage of the vine selection but it looked pretty good.

… later the same trip I flew transatlantic with Austrian for the first time. Fantastic - among the best food I've had on a plane, great staff, new aircraft etc. LH could learn from them.
I am glad to here that you enjoyed your flight with OS. But please bear in mind that in reality, airlines consider that catering forms a very small part of it’s business class product. They believe, that it is the business class seat which represents 90% of the product by value, with the rest made up of benefits like separate check-in, lounges, etc.(you can test this out if it comes to compensation). And this is the reason why OS recently started a project to upgraded their long haul business class seats in the near future.

I was on the new LH 340-600 last week from FRA to YYZ. I agree that PrivateBeds are superior to the old ones in C class. However, I was having difficulties finding a position that is truly comfortable (maybe it's my inability to operate the buttons).
There is no doubt about it that the new business class seats are superior to the old ones (there are a lot of complains that the speed to upgrade these seats is too slow). However, let me compare the new LH business class product with them from some competitors (on there new planes!):

Bed: SA (A 346) & BA: flat; AF/LH/SR/SQ: incline between 7 & 13°.
Length of bed: LH: 2 meters, SA: 1,85 meters, BA: 1,83 meters
Width of seat: SA: 0,71 meters, LH: 0,575 meters, AF: 0,54 meters, BA/SR: 0,51 meters
Seat pitch: SA & BA: 1,85 meters, AF: 1,55 meters, SR 1,52 meters, LH 1,5 meters, EK: 1,37 meters


Has LH made the change in biz on all their aircraft?
No. Please click on “Routes” (http://www.lufthansa-business-class.de/de/flash.html)

I also forgot.

LH offers real knives. :D
Not the plastic crap AC and UA offer.

I came back from Tokyo during the week (to Munich) and found the seat very good. I am not tall so found no problem sleeping fully stretched and after a bit of 'tweeking' found a very comfortable viewing\sitting position which I stored in the memory.

The entertainment system was suffering teething problems, one of the FA's told me she had spent a lot of time re-booting the computer system during the flight and that there was a technician on board.

Having flown out to Tokyo from Frankfurt on an un-converted 747 I would say that the new C seat is a big improvement, I also noticed on the way back that the C service was much enhanced - perhaps as there is no F on the Tokyo to Munich service LH have improved the 'whole' experience to compensate the passengers that would normally fly in F.

Two small niggles, one G&T was served without a slice of lemon and the white wine was not chilled. :)

I flew EZE-FRA-EZE two times in new seats, so had 4 flights total to experience. My observations:
- I don't like the angle of the seat - it's too steep for the seat to be considered a flat bed.
The gravitation puts a pressure on your feet that supports the weight of your budy. So you wake up with the lower portion of your legs stressed out. The way around it, I found, was to sleep in S-like position, but while that is fine on really flat bed, on this seat it makes it difficult as you keep sliding down towards the floor.
As far as electrics, no single flight was without problems somewhere in the cabin with the seat/IFE.
The service is OK, but north-american service they give you a bit more attention. Maybe because I am comparing a srevice on 14 hour flight vs 8 hour flight, with the same meals (dinner, breakfast)...
Last time FRA to EZE I slept 8 hours, but probably only because of fact that two nights before I slept very little.
My conclusion: better than old C-class seat and better than UA F-class seat on 767 (the only UA F I experienced). But the angle when fully reclined is too steep for a peaceful night rest, I guess if they cut the floor-seat angle by half the seat would make for a much better experience.

Has LH made the change in biz on all their aircraft? I'm on a 340 at the end of the month (EWR-FRA), and was looking for some guidance as to the best seat for a solo traveller. :cool:

Here is LH timing for the roll-out of the new biz class (copied from LH site)
----------------------------------------------------------
The gradual conversion of the Lufthansa long-distance fleet

The countdown is underway - Our implementation schedule


15.12.2003 Buenos Aires/Santiago de Chile-Frankfurt LH527/LH526
02.01.2004 Osaka-Frankfurt LH741/LH740
27.01.2004 Seoul-Frankfurt LH713/LH712
18.03.2004 Frankfurt-Toronto LH470/LH471
08.02.2004 Frankfurt-Vancouver LH492/LH493
25.02.2004 Munich-Miami LH 464/5
16.03.2004 Frankfurt-Cairo/Khartum LH 588/9
17.03.2004 Frankfurt-Cairo/Addis Abeba LH 590/1
29.03.2004 Frankfurt-Lagos/Abuja LH 562/3
30.03.2004 Frankfurt-Lagos/Accra LH 564/5
30.03.2004 Frankfurt-Cairo/Asmara LH 592/3
02.04.2004 Munich-Dubai LH 638/9
13.04.2004 Frankfurt-New York LH 400/1
19.04.2004 Munich-Tokio LH 714/5
27.04.2004 Munich-Hongkong LH 730/1
17.05.2004 Munich-Los Angeles LH 452/3
07.06.2004 Munich-Peking LH 722/3
07.06.2004 Munich-San Francisco LH 458/9
07.06.2004 Munich-Teheran LH 602/3
08.06.2004 Munich-Schanghai/Kanton LH 726/7

I assume (from looking at pictures) that the new seat is identical to the ones featured in Club ANA. The sleeping position is outright horrible if you are over 6 feet. (I am 6'5"). You wake up with cramped feet and calves from pushing your whole body upwards against the aingle. (So far for 170 degrees being nearly 180, THERE's A BIG DIFFERENCE!)) :td:
Also, with big feet, mine at size 46. Make sure they do not get stuck when putting seat in sleep position. They can get caught in the little 'foot pocket' in the seat in front of you. :p

Bastiaan

I just returned from flying to Lagos and back with the new business class. I took my chances upgrading on a standby basis with United Airlines systemwide upgrades.

On 564 from FRA I was the highest on the upgrade list. I would have been upgraded except two of the new seats were blocked out because they were known to be completely inoperative. And this was in Frankfurt! Are these seats so complicated that they are breaking down beyond ability of the mechanics of Frankfurt to repair?

On the return from LOS, the load was light and I was upgraded with no problem. Despite requesting a seat that was not at a bulkhead, I was given 3G, at the forward bulkhead. The entertainment screen pops out from the armrest at bulkhead seats. From the complaint above about the position of the screen, I thought this might be a benefit because the screen can be moved a variety of angles in a higher position. So I stayed in the seat, ready to see how the movie system worked. I too, was told that the movies would start an hour after take off. The flight attendant was amazed when I pointed out that movies had started long before this time. What is more important, the pop up screen was defective, displaying scrambled images while all the other screens were apparently working well. I requested another seat. The business section was not even half full, but it took the staff ten or fifteen minutes to decide which seat would work for me. Once I sat down, I found that the brightness control on the second screen was inoperative, making images on the screen barely distinguishable. By that time I had my meal in front of me. I managed to finish viewing the movie by watching the screen next to me (fortunately, the person next to me was watching the same movie), which was much more clear than mine, even though I was viewing it from an angle.

Finally I managed to sit in yet another seat. This one worked fine. Having tried out three different seats, I was impressed with the almost endless array of possible positions, but I don't think I found one that was really comfortable for sleeping. In my opinion, the flat position is less comfortable than the relaxed position for sleeping.

The headsets use a three prong connector which is designed to be plugged in at the very bottom of a compartment (about ten inches deep) in the center armrest. In all three seats I found that the connector came unplugged far too easily, requiring a very awkward procedure to feel around the bottom of the compartment to re-insert the connector. What is more, the three-prong connector means that headsets belonging to passengers cannot be used. I much prefer my Bose active noise reduction headset using either a single or double prong connector. Perhaps there is an adaptor, but flight attendants had no solution.

Overall, although it is obviously superior to the previous seat, I think that Lufthansa has developed something which may prove to be too complicated for LH to maintain in a consistent manner. With appreciation for how the designers were attempting, I think it's almost too complicated for passengers to use. I think it may take someone two or three flights to learn all the various positions and possibilities.

With wireless internet promised next month, the range of possible technical difficulties will increase even more. What kind of technicians will flight attendants need to be? The experienced crew on my flight had a difficult time even re-inserting the three-prong headset.

Ok, ok... so now that I know how wonderful (or not) the service is on LH's new planes, I've discovered my upcoming EWR-FRA in C is on the old 340. How bad is it??? Since I've no choice on this flight (leaves next Fri night), but will be making upcoming res to PRG, I'm now trying to decide if its really bad, should I just make those on CSA??? (PS-my general experience has been mainly on CO's BF).

Mauld,

Why don't you check if you can switch your ticket to JFK-FRA on LH 401? That has the new business class...

Questions, I am flying from Canada so have the choice of YYZ-FRA on the new Business Class, JFK-FRA on the new business class or BOS-FRA on the old first class on an award ticket... Any suggestions of one over the others?

Thanks, Mary

"The headsets use a three prong connector which is designed to be plugged in at the very bottom of a compartment (about ten inches deep) in the center armrest. In all three seats I found that the connector came unplugged far too easily, requiring a very awkward procedure to feel around the bottom of the compartment to re-insert the connector. What is more, the three-prong connector means that headsets belonging to passengers cannot be used. I much prefer my Bose active noise reduction headset using either a single or double prong connector. Perhaps there is an adaptor, but flight attendants had no solution."

According to the Bose manual (ha ha), all you need to use is the Bose 2 prong adaptor. With the 3 prong, the third hole is for power which you don't need as the Bose has its own power.

Will sombody please check this out and let us know if it's accurate.
Maybe the new C phones are sound reducing?

According to the Bose manual (ha ha), all you need to use is the Bose 2 prong adaptor. With the 3 prong, the third hole is for power which you don't need as the Bose has its own power.

Will sombody please check this out and let us know if it's accurate.
Maybe the new C phones are sound reducing?

This seems to make sense. In LH's first class seat you will also find a (similar?) 3 prong plug for LH's Sennheiser noise cancelling headphones. My Bose set plugs into 2 of the 3 without a problem (apart from the fact that the plug is a little difficult to reach). The third hole is narrower and I always assumed it is to power the LH headsets (which do not have a battery compartment.)

BTW, if the adaptor that Bose provides does not fit, there are other adaptor types (e.g. a real cheap one at Radio Shack) that are more flexible and might fit easier.

If my Bose headset does not fit, I am not going :p

Hi seat gurus,

I looked on www.seatguru and LH is not listed. I am flying YYZ-FRA May 5 on the new business class so which seat should I ask for? What is the seat configuration and what are good seats and what seat I should stay away from?

Thanks in advance,

The C phones are certainly noise reducing and are by far the best enhancement that comes with the new C class. It is true that the connection is recessed deep in the arm rest and fairly hard to get to but for me I didn't have any problems with it coming unplugged. The headset did have an option to turn on and off the noise reduction and are much larger than the old headphones.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/574881/M/

D-AIGF, which seems to serve NRT & THR ex MUC in the new 2 class 343 config

Can someone compare whether the new LH C beds are inclined at a steeper or lesser angle compared with the SQ C beds?

Also, in comparison between A340-300 and A340-600: the ceilings in the A340-300 feel spacious in F compared to Y, because in F there are no center overhead bins. The A340-600 C cabin does have overhead bins. Does it feel spacious compared to:
- the A340 F cabin?
- the 777 C cabin (e.g. UA, SQ)?
- the 747 C cabin?

Just recently flew YVR-FRA new C-class and also JFK-FRA on SQ. I still prefer the SpaceBeds. I found the new C seat on LH still made me sliding while sleeping and the width of the bed it seems smaller than SQ.
But of course, I would rather be in the new LH C seat than in the old one. Row 1 is a great choice.

Just recently flew YVR-FRA new C-class and also JFK-FRA on SQ. I still prefer the SpaceBeds. I found the new C seat on LH still made me sliding while sleeping and the width of the bed it seems smaller than SQ.
But of course, I would rather be in the new LH C seat than in the old one. Row 1 is a great choice.

Nice to see a vote for the heavily criticized SpaceBeds... :D

The C phones are certainly noise reducing and are by far the best enhancement that comes with the new C class.

Better than the flat seats?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/574881/M/

D-AIGF, which seems to serve NRT & THR ex MUC in the new 2 class 343 config

Also D-AIGD, which I had from MUC-MIA

can anybody advise on which seat to choose on LH 639 from DXB to MUC. Due to the constraints of my RTW I can only fly from pass FRA once - either out OR inbound and sadly they have dropped F class since I flew beginning of March to MUC so that I now have an involontary volontary downgrade to look forward to :(

Any advise is appreciated

Cheers

Thomas

I tried the new C seat on LH588 yesterday from FRA to CAI. It was a four hour afternoon flight and I had no difficulty napping. I impressed with the design and quality of the seat, however, the IFE is miles behind SQ's KrisWorld. In summary, LH has at least caught up with SQ for the C seat, but the IFE and stewardesses still need some improvement.

Just recently flew YVR-FRA new C-class and also JFK-FRA on SQ. I still prefer the SpaceBeds. I found the new C seat on LH still made me sliding while sleeping and the width of the bed it seems smaller than SQ.
But of course, I would rather be in the new LH C seat than in the old one. Row 1 is a great choice.

I'm about to fly FRA-YVR (LH0492), what is the seat pich in coach? Any seats to avoid? If I can choose, which seat should I take?

Is the the standard in C worth an upgrade?

LH 493 C-class seats are the new biz seats. It's absolutely worth of an upgrade from Y to C. It's definitely much more comfortable than Y. It is 9 hours 45 minutes flight time. So you can have a chance to sleep. I know it is quite a struggle to make yourself sleepy. The flight departs 4pm and 2 hours later the meals service was done, and it's 3 am in Frankfurt. Luckily I have no trouble in making myself to sleep. I got off the plane fresh while I noticed some pax sitting around my seats who did not force themselves to sleep in the plane were looked so very tired and sleepy.
My waitlist for the upgrades for this flight next week, and mid June, and mid August are not cleared yet. LH Senator agent said on the phone that my chances for the dates that I booked are quite slim. Hmm LH493 must be quite a popular flight.

however, the IFE is miles behind SQ's KrisWorld.

As far as I know the AVOD system is still not operable on LHs new planes, so this will improve when the toothing problems are solves (said to be by July)...

Greetings - Dirk

whilst they are sorting out the problems with the new seats how about an overhaul of the miserable staff LH employ. How hard can it be to find people who enjoy being nice to the people who pay the salary, how hard is it to speak to peopla in a tone other than that used in milatary establishments, how hard is it to make your customers feel they appreciate your business ?? :rolleyes:

I'm about to fly FRA-YVR (LH0492), what is the seat pich in coach? Any seats to avoid? If I can choose, which seat should I take?

Is the the standard in C worth an upgrade?

I would say again to upgrade on LH492 is worth the miles or e-vouchers. It's 10 hours flight.

Anyone know when (and if) routes like SIN-FRA and KUL-BKK-FRA will get the new seats? I'm assuming not before october? when they start work on the 744's. Thanks.

Hello all,
I'm a stranger to this board and a stranger to LH, but in an effort to burn up all my US Dividend Miles, I succeeded beyond my wildest dreams, got exactly the dates that I wanted 6 weeks out and they were C class on LH and, very fortunately, I do not even need to fly on USAir at all.
My outbound is on 401, which is by all accounts an A330 configured with the new seats. Can anybody tell me which seat locations they prefer and why? Are there any that are clearly to be avoided?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Bob

I flew the new LH C class FRA-CAI (LH588) on Tuesday. The seats were nice -- I like them better than SQ's SpaceBeds. LH service is still mediocre. IFE is still poor. It's a step in the right direction. I'll still choose SQ over LH over UA.

Bump up in case somebody who has taken trips on the newly configured 330 in C missed the thread.

whilst they are sorting out the problems with the new seats how about an overhaul of the miserable staff LH employ. How hard can it be to find people who enjoy being nice to the people who pay the salary, how hard is it to speak to peopla in a tone other than that used in milatary establishments, how hard is it to make your customers feel they appreciate your business ?? :rolleyes:

You probably meant to post this in the UA forum, right?

I use www.seatguru.com for the domestic airlines and www.seatexpert.com for the International ones.

Try a google search for Lufthansa seat maps and see what you get!

:D

Has anyone flown between Osaka and Frankfurt in the new business class seats? Any recommended seats -- or seats to avoid? (I couldn't get seatmaps to load on seatexpert.com.) Any other comments welcome on these flights.

Many thanks!

Has anyone flown between Osaka and Frankfurt in the new business class seats? Any recommended seats -- or seats to avoid? (I couldn't get seatmaps to load on seatexpert.com.) Any other comments welcome on these flights.

Many thanks!

Isn't it KIX-FRA using A346 same as YVR-FRA? I have taken YVR-FRA-YVR recently, and I noticed that it's quite difficult to get the first row, i.e. row 1. I got 1C a month ago, and it felt roomier then 2H that I was in last Sunday.
You can get the seatmap from LH website.

One thing that I don't understand with the pax in the new business class seats. They like to throw away pillow, blanket, newspapers, and magazines into the area between the wall holding the videoscreen and the seat in front. This will result in inability for the pax in front to recline his/her seat. perhaps it's just an ignorance from the pax who did this. It is clearly marked that no storage in that area.

[QUOTE=CGK]Isn't it KIX-FRA using A346 same as YVR-FRA? QUOTE]

For sure it is.

I assume (from looking at pictures) that the new seat is identical to the ones featured in Club ANA....

...not that I am aware of but NH C seat = CX C seat = LX C seat = AF C seat, same manufacturer and tech...at least a product shared by major alliances and used even by independents :D

I would say again to upgrade on LH492 is worth the miles or e-vouchers. It's 10 hours flight.

LH492/493 remembers me of:
http://www.securite.org/nico/XP/LHifcrash.jpg

My inflight system had to be restarted 5 or 6 times (takes 8-10 minutes to boot), and the seat 3 or 4 times...

LH492/493 remembers me of:
http://www.securite.org/nico/XP/LHifcrash.jpg

My inflight system had to be restarted 5 or 6 times (takes 8-10 minutes to boot), and the seat 3 or 4 times...

Ok, you had the experience. But in my humble opinion, the C-class is still a better way to travel for those 9 to 10 hours flights. Better service, better meals, better seats than Y. Therefore still worth of an upgrade.
From my recent flights from/to YVR, there was somebody whom I think is the "guy" who fix the IFE if there is a problem. I noticed seat 2D complained about the blankscreen after leveling off. An hour later, his IFE worked fine. For me, I am not really using the IFE, since I have seen most of th emovie choices from flying SQ a month or two months before. Yes it seems the movies in LH are not as newer as in other airlines.

Has anyone flown between Osaka and Frankfurt in the new business class seats? Any recommended seats -- or seats to avoid? (I couldn't get seatmaps to load on seatexpert.com.) Any other comments welcome on these flights.

Many thanks!

Bump. Has anyone flown on this route in the new business class? Any comments on seats, service, etc. would be welcome.

Thank you.

I'll be flying MUCSFO in about two weeks. Never flown the new LH C (usually fly the other/shorter way around the world)
Any advise good seats / to be avoided seats?

Thanks in advance.