DiningBuzz! - Argentine Beef Versus American Beef

On a trip to Europe, I noticed a plethora of restaurants touting Argentine beef and steaks.

I have never tried Argentine beef, as I think I will wait until I am able to get to Argentina one day to sample the genuine article.

I was wondering if anybody has tried both Argentine beef and American beef? If so, which is better — or, at least, what are the differences? What makes Argentine beef distinctive?

I'm sure it depends on the grade.

Wouldn't Argentinian beef be American beef, it is from the Americas after all.

Using thsoe terms is to general as both the USA and Argentina are large countries with the beef from one area having different qualities from another.

But why deabte if either these has better beef, Alberta beef is the best!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 7E7:
But why deabte if either these has better beef, Alberta beef is the best!</font>

I had never heard of anyone touting Alberta beef, but in the past week I dined on steaks with a fellow FT'er who mentioned his fondness for Alberta beef and now you 7E7! I'll have to make sure and try it on my upcoming Canada 2004 summer trip.

The noticable difference I have tasted is that Argentinian beef has a beefier/heartier taste to it than does US beef. Kind of like a capon to normal hen with chicken. Not scientific by anymeans, just my observation.

Mst commercial U.S. beef is raised on corn and injected with growth hormones and other substances. The injections allow the cows to eat the corn without getting ill -- nature intended for cows to eat grasses, not corn) and also grow more quickly so producers can get them to the markets with more efficiency. The NY Times detailed this science in an excellent feature some time ago in the Sunday magazine.

As I understand it, if you've ever had naturally-rasied, non-chemical, grass-fed beef, you'll have a sense of what true Argentinian beef is supposed to be like. As Willie says, it's known for a different flavor and it's supposed to be leaner as well.

That said, I don't know if natural U.S. beef is necessarily "better" than Argentinian beef, but it may be significantly different, depending on the level of quality and the breed of cattle.

FYI, if you have a Wild Oats or Whole Foods market in your area, you may be able to find Coleman beef steaks or beef from other producers. In my experience these are of much higher quality than typical grocery store beef. As with the poultry and pork they sell, the flavors and textures are much better IMO, plus you're eating natural unprocessed meat. With true butcher shops disappearing in many towns, this may be one of your few options short of mail order from retailers like Dean & Deluca.

Note to self:

Must go to Argentina and Alberta to sample and consume beef...

Theoretically:

Argentinian beef
- cows live in free nature, no stablings
- grass feeding, no additives


There's another type of beef that's becoming more known recently (but it's very rare):

Kobe beef (after you've read the remarks below = no joke!; mainly available with first class cuisine)
- natural concentrated feed (potatoes, corn, fodder beet)
- cows get beer daily (= more appetite)
- cows get massage several days a week
-&gt; very expensive

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Up in the neck of my woods, we get Argentinean and Albertan beef (as well as Australian and Uruguayean). All depends on the cut too but Albertan beef is nothing fancy for ordinary grades. I can't tell the difference for supermarket grades fort he same cut.

At any rate, I don't like my cows (or other livestock) eating recycled animals and hope that the beef (and livestock) industry in Canada gets creatively destroyed so herbivores are truly herbivores as nature intended. The domestic industry has supposedly stopped feeding recycled cows to cows but continues to feed it to pigs and chickens. I wouldn't be unsurprised if some recycled cows do end up getting fed to cows.

I have been to Argentina a couple of times, and can attest that their beef is far better than what I get here. It has more flavour, and in many places the cuts are fresh (i.e. not aged)

ost of their cattle is raised on pampas grass.
buenos Aires is worth a visit to two .. just ot for beef alone http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdining_forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 7E7:
But why deabte if either these has better beef, Alberta beef is the best!</font>


Yes, I am Mad about Alberta Beef. http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdining_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by akhullar:
It has more flavour, and in many places the cuts are fresh (i.e. not aged)</font>

aging adds flavor to beef, so I'm not sure what you meant by this.

I have been to Argentina and, to be honest, I dont notice a great difference in quality. I know Argentine beef is highly touted in Argentina and around the world but it seems to me a larger part of the Great Argentine Beef craze is price/quality ratio.

In Argentina, a great steak is much cheaper than the U.S./Europe, etc. (can't speak for Alberta!) and steakhouses in Argentina are everywhere. These two factors lead to a perception (i.e. great margeting) that I think affects people's opinions more than quality. Now, don't get me wrong, a steak at an Argentine parilla is a beautiful thing -- they sure as hell know how to cook it right and it is full of flavor, etc. But I think a steak at a wonderful Argentine parilla compared to, say...a steak at Ruth's Chris, Morton's, or other well-known and high-end U.S. steakhouses, would come in a close second.

I have noticed, on the other hand, that Kobe beef is one killer slab of cow. I recently had a burger at Rogue Ale House in San Francisco (they had a chice between a regular burger and Kobe burger) and it was so good it stopped me in my tracks. Hta's off to the Japanese!

Kevin

All theory about beef production and preparation aside...

I've eaten steaks in Europe, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico and many, many in the US.

I mostly eat at restraunts similar to one in the US where a Steak dinner would cost about $35 before wine is added in.

Argentina wins hands down. Cheaper than the US also. Other meats were also available, also cheaper than the US, also better than the US, but not by much.

Brazil - Good, seemed a touch better than the US, but I did good and bad cuts at different places.

Germany, Switzerland - Suspect South American beef, very very good but it was soooo expensive. Veal was the same price as the beef, and a better choice. (no moral judgements please)

Prague, Italy - Where the hell did they get that shoe leather?

Mexico - local beef from central or southern Mexico was tough and had to be heavily marinated. Not as good as what I usually get in the US. Harder to find a place that will actually serve a large, thick piece of beef. Most have chopped up marinated pieces. Did have a very good steak in Mexico City, but it cost as much as in the US and was so heavily seasoned I had to scrape the salt crust off before eating it.

US - what can I say. I find most steaks in the US sort of boring. I occasionally splurge for a steak from a really good restraunt and it's almost always worth it - though expensive.

There are a couple of farms in Nebraska that grow Kobe beef for the Japanese market and I had the pleasure to sample it. It tastes just like butter as they say. In fact so much so that you may as well eat butter.

Beef gets more tender/juicy as marbeling (fat content) increases and with the Kobe beef the fat percentage is extremely high. The steak almost looks frozen because it's mostly white. Personally I prefer USA Prime or Choice cuts. Anything above Prime is too buttery for me.

The difference in taste (if marbeling is the same)between Argentine and USA steaks can mostly be attributed to the spice mix used and the way it's prepared.

In my opinion, it's all in the marbeling and type of cut.

I've lived in Japan, Argentina, and the US, and I love a good steak, so here's one more opinion:

- you can get a tenderer steak in the US or (especially) Japan than in Argentina. An Argentine steak will be leaner than Kobe beef or most Prime cuts in the US. Kobe beef can be so extremely tender it's soft -- it has the texture of ripe honeydew melon.
- That doesn't mean the Argentine steak is tough -- I once saw a waiter impress some US visitors by dividing their steak-for-two with 2 spoons, no knife.
- I think several factors add up to make the argentine steak exceptionally tasty: Although lean, there still is enough fat in an argentine steak to taste great, plus the cattle are free range, have a good diet, no fattening lots, and there's a national focus on cattle breeding/genetics going back 100+ years (their is still a huge annual agricultural fair in heart of Buenos Aires).
- A lot of care goes into grilling in Argentina, which ensures that their surprisingly lean steaks are surprisingly tender. The steaks are slowly grilled over low coals made from natural charcoal or even wood that has just been burned down to coals. The only seasoning during cooking will be coarse salt (at argentine construction sites, one worker is always designated to spend the whole morning carefully grilling lunch). Most people order their steaks "a punto" right at the point where medium rare would become medium.
- I'll try and describe tasty: the argentine steak just tastes beefier. If you can imagine the outer edge of a high quality roast that has been carefully slow cooked -- the edges are a bit salty; caramelized but not burned, the roast has been out of the oven and you're ready to carve, and you pick off a little bit for tasting -- Well, that's the concentrated beefy taste that comes through in every bite of an argentine steak. By contrast, american steak just doesn't have the flavor all by itself.



[This message has been edited by gsilliman (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

Thank you for the very informative posts, everybody. Please keep them coming.

But, I have one question:
Where Are The Best Steakhouses In The World? (http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdining_forum/Forum4/HTML/000189.html)

I just spent 20 days in Argentina and 10 days in Uruguay. I ate more steak & pork & chicken & lamb and drank more red wine than I have in my entire life. Also, my job here in the states invovles quite a bit of travel and entertaining so I've visited quite a few steakhouses here.

There are some overall differences between US steaks served and those in South America. I would say that primarily the meat served in SA is a bit tougher. Maybe a bit chewier. There really is no room in SA for a medium/well to well done steak. It will be unedible. Not that I ever ordered a steak like that down there, always medium/rare.

For North American tastes accustomed to a more cooked offering you will find that the steaks are cooked more on a European scale. Med rare in SA = rare in NA.

The variety of cuts available in SA is fascinating. There are also some interesting rolled pork dishes available at the parilla.

My opinion, and mine only, is that in South America the Uruguan beef was superior to the Argentinian beef. Purely subjective please don't flame me.

Places I'd eat again:

In Buenos Aires I liked Estillo Campo. It's a chain, with one right down from Cabana Las Lilas in Puerto Madero. But a good introduction to beef in Argentina nonetheless.

In Montevideo one must go to the Puerto Viejo. Absolutely fantastic grouping of parillas. Best steak and overall food I had on my entire trip. I made three trips here for lunch, it was uniformly excellent.

For me, the best beef I have tasted , so far, is in Argentina. It tastes like beef.

We will be going to Buenos Aires from 2-10 April and one of the deciding factors for this trip was our desire to eat their beef, and to tango.

I am convinced.

I am now confirmed to go to Argentina later this year.

I appreciate the input from everyone who contributed to this thread.

Thank you.

I've been to Argentina a couple of times and, quite simply, I can't bear to eat anything but steak the whole time I'm there. It would simply be a missed opportunity. I'm not normally a big steak eater, but Argentine steak is one of the world's great culinary experiences. I think the secret is that the conditions for cattle farming are pretty close to perfect and that the cooking has been refined to an art form, with all the juices sealed inside waiting for the first cut of the knife.
A lomo (fillet) or chorizo (sirloin) is going to set you back something like $4-5 even in a good parilla in Buenos Aires and a great bottle of wine can be had for c.$7.

All you can eat churrasco in Brazil is fun, but I think you inevitably sacrifice some quality for the sheer quantity of meat you are getting.

Kobe beef is very tasty, but I'd tend to go for it only in dishes such as shabu-shabu rather than taking out a mortgage to buy a whole steak...

I have been to Argentina several times, will be there again shortly, and I must say that the beef there is far superior than that that we have here. I look forward to eating at my favorite parilla when I arrive, and I only consume beef when I am there, which usually accounts for about 5lbs of weight gain each time I go.

I am more a gourmand than a gourmet, so I cannot speak about the virtues of the differences as others have done here, but I look forward to eating Argentine beef where I do not particularly seek out beef here in the States.

A big thing to me as far as Argentina beef was the ease of digestion ,here in the States I seldom eat beef after 6pm when I do my sleep pattern is disrupted I never had this happen to me in Argentina.and I usually ate between 8:30-10pm. anyone else notice this?

This is a great thread. I've really got a jones to try Argentinian beef so I can make a genuine comparison.

What I feel I can add at this point, though, is my two cents on grass fed versus grain fed. I take grain fed. Every time. No question about it. Grass fed beef to me, while leaner, doesn't get the full flavor development and is significantly tougher. I always look for grain-fed beef. That said, I'm also really wary about the use of dead animal matter in U.S. beef. That just doesn't fly. I think we're in for some really scary times ahead with the beef industry in this country ... but hopefully I'm just worrying too much. Still, with all the mad cow scares and the questions surrounding the use of hormones and antibiotics -- it's just not something that makes me very comfortable. Of course, that could mean continuing great days ahead for Argentina's industry.

Grass fed beef to me, while leaner, doesn't get the full flavor development and is significantly tougher. I always look for grain-fed beef.


The flavour of grain-fed beef comes from the fat the animals put on in the feed lot.

I've read somewhere (earlier in this thread?) that cattle have to be given steroids as they are unable to digest certain feed such as corn naturally.


That said, I'm also really wary about the use of dead animal matter in U.S. beef.

Not supposed to happen but there may be feed contamination or cows are (deliberately) fed chicken and pig feed which may contain recycled animals.

Kobe beef (after you've read the remarks below = no joke!; mainly available with first class cuisine)
- natural concentrated feed (potatoes, corn, fodder beet)
- cows get beer daily (= more appetite)
- cows get massage several days a week
- very expensive

The cows actually get fed Sake, and not beer :) This is true "kobe" beef - you can also get "Wagyu" beef which is a certain breed of cow. Nearly as good, but not as expensive. This is the only beef I've ever had that you don't need to chew - melts in your mouth. A few restaurants here in London fly it in every day from Japan.

One thing to be careful of in Argentina. You will probably be ruined for steaks in the US. I was there for 2 weeks, and then came back and ate a few steaks and couldn't stand them. Even a $30 steak in NYC a couple of weeks ago didn't taste as good as the all you can eat steak you get in a Tenedor Libre (Buffet) in BA!

The cows actually get fed Sake, and not beer :) This is true "kobe" beef - you can also get "Wagyu" beef which is a certain breed of cow. Nearly as good, but not as expensive. This is the only beef I've ever had that you don't need to chew - melts in your mouth.

This is due to microscopic fat marbling. The meat is graded by how many specks of fat that can be seen (under magnification) per sq. centimeter. I thik it's 100-300 specks/cm^2. Think of it as beef fat with bit of beef embedded. :)

I prefer the taste of Argentinian beef over American beef. American beef is more tender because of the marbling. Argentinian beef does not have as much marbling. I wouldn't say one type is "better" or more "superior" to the other, only that i prefer the tase of Agentinian beef over the other.

I also prefer the taste of Brazilian coffe in Brazil over the swill they serve at Starbucks and I prefer the taste of orange juice in the State of Florida vs the stuff I get here in NYC.

I do notice something whenever I travel to Asia or South America. I have an easier time digesting food than I do at home. I guees you don't realize how much of our food in the States is processed until you eat in other countries.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdgeNews&storyID=542878&section=finance

Where can one buy raw Argentine beef in the US?

Any online or Boston suggestions would be helpful.

My vote is for Argentinean beef too, although I ended up longing for fish last time I was there. So many meat based dinners were making me feel rather "heavy".

I had some great steaks in Puerto Madero but as some of you have noted quality also differs from cut to cut. My best Argentine beef I have had here in Spain in two different restaurants who I know have the same supplier.

[QUOTE=jwalkabout]I prefer the taste of Argentinian beef over American beef. American beef is more tender because of the marbling. Argentinian beef does not have as much marbling. I wouldn't say one type is "better" or more "superior" to the other, only that i prefer the tase of Agentinian beef over the other.

QUOTE]

I've never eaten Argentine beef, but I notice the same about venison here in the US....I hate to talk about "terroir" in food, without sounding pretentious, but I can really taste a difference. especially when the deer have been eating acorns. It's an indescribable, nutty, spicy taste; and the meat is a much deeper, richer red. Easier to digest. I like the fact that it has no hormones...and since I only shoot does, it's good for the ecology of the Edwards Plateau.

Also agree with your point about how overprocessed US food is. I'll never forget the first time I ate a real-farm fresh egg....it was "eggier" than anything I'd ever had.

Tomatoes. Pineapples. Peaches....all these things just don't have flavor from the grocery store. I think the real reason Americans are so fat is, our food is just not satisfying!

I've also had steaks from all around the world. One thing we should all be able to agree on is that there is no such thing as a great steak in Europe!

The US is a pretty big place and there are all ranges of steakhouses. Some have fabulous cuts, some not. Some are world class, just as in a great place in Argentina or Brazil, some are not.

I've never had a great steak in Asia-Pac. In fact I really don't like the beef in Australia.

I live in California, visit Canqda quite a lot and have been to Buenos Aires three times. Without a dout, the steaks to get in Argentina are better by far than anything I can afford in California and certainly better than anything I've ever had in Canada (even at the hights end restaurants in BC). Personally, I'd take the US beef over Canadian anytime and Argentine over US.

Of course the best way to figure this out is to book a quick trip to BA, stay in Recoleta and eat lomo everyday, along with a nice bottle of Malbec.

Buenos Aires........best Argentinian steak, medium rare, a glass of full-bodied red wine........all for less than $10! Can't be beaten! Aaaaaaah! Memories! :)

You know, I was just thinking that it would be really cool if there were a restaurant out there that allowed you to sample different types of beef side-by-side, or at least offered different kinds on their menu. Every restaurant I know of makes the choice for you -- Midwestern grain-fed; hormone, anti-biotic free grass fed; grazed; Argentinian; American; etc. But, hey, for the real connoisseurs among us out there, I think it would be a great thing to have a comparative "tasting" as it were -- let me have a sampler of grain fed, grass fed, Argentinian, American, heck throw in Kobe if you want. I don't care. I think there are a lot of interesting possibilities to explore. It would make comparison a lot easier, and it'd be a heck of a fun thing to do.

A lomo (fillet) or chorizo (sirloin) is going to set you back something like $4-5 even in a good parilla in Buenos Aires and a great bottle of wine can be had for c.$7.

[/QUOTE]

Please do not make a mistake between "chorizo" and "bife de chorizo" when ordering in Argentina. The meat is Bife de chorizo, while chorizo is like a pork sausage. Anyway you must try both!

cheers from Buenos Aires
Eduardo

As the person who originally posted this question and having just returned from Argentina, I can now answer the question for myself.

I do not like beef from Argentina.

In fact, I will even go so far as to say that I hate beef from Argentina, and here are the reasons: I hate the fact that the quality of beef from Argentina, for the most part, surpasses beef from the United States in terms of texture and taste. Beef from the United States will never be quite the same to me ever again. I hate that a steak from Argentina, cooked to absolute perfection, is only a fraction of the price of a similar cut of beef from the United States — and few places around the United States offer beef similar in quality and taste to that of Argentina. I hate eating that last delectable morsel of a steak from Argentina, as it means that my gastronomic experience has once again come to an end. I hate that a real steak from Argentina is so far away from where I live.I hate beef from Argentina...

As the person who originally posted this question and having just returned from Argentina, I can now answer the question for myself.

I do not like beef from Argentina.

In fact, I will even go so far as to say that I hate beef from Argentina, and here are the reasons: I hate the fact that the quality of beef from Argentina, for the most part, surpasses beef from the United States in terms of texture and taste. Beef from the United States will never be quite the same to me ever again. I hate that a steak from Argentina, cooked to absolute perfection, is only a fraction of the price of a similar cut of beef from the United States — and few places around the United States offer beef similar in quality and taste to that of Argentina. I hate eating that last delectable morsel of a steak from Argentina, as it means that my gastronomic experience has once again come to an end. I hate that a real steak from Argentina is so far away from where I live.I hate beef from Argentina...


I grew up in Argentina and I have to say that beef in the US or anywhere else cannot compete to Argentine beef. Even the cheapest steaks which are the short ribs surpass any filet that I have had here in the states. In NYC there is a great restaurant in Jackson Heights and in Seatle there is great parilla. Other than that I have to go to Argentina.

I cannot remember where I read this but the article said that Argentine beef is good for you.

If one wants a great steak in the United States, one usually has to carefully search out a specialty steakhouse where prime beef costs a fortune.

In Argentina — and even in Uruguay — one basically cannot go wrong in choosing any parrilla in which to walk in and order a very good or excellent cut of steak.

I personally had never been disappointed with steaks in Argentina or Uruguay, and I ate in a number of parrillas while I was there...

You know the feeling that you have after you have flown first class and ride in coach?that is how I feel about US beef compared to beef from Argentina,You know what it can be,Every time I buy and cook a filet that I pay good $ for I say to my wife,This does not compare,i am ruined on US beef forever.

I've grown up on American beef, but after having a fair amount of Argentinian beef I agree with most posters - it tastes different, and after the first one or two it definitely tastes better. I believe it took me a while to get used to the "grass-fed" vs. "corn-fed" taste, but once I did, the ballgame was over.

Well, almost over. Then I went to Tokyo and had Wagyu beef at the teppanyaki restaurant on the top floor of the Westin in Ebisu, and now everything else (yes, including Argentinian beef, but especially American beef) reminds me of how good that Wagyu meat was. Tasty, incredibly marbled, and absolutely melt-in-your-mouth. No chewing necessary. (Umm, not exactly, but it sounded good so I added it ...)

D*mn. I'm not scheduled to visit Tokyo again until December, but I'm getting hungry. If I come into some unexpected money, I'll put it aside and see if I can find real Kobe beef in Japan. THAT should be an experience.

As the person who originally posted this question and having just returned from Argentina, I can now answer the question for myself.

I do not like beef from Argentina.

In fact, I will even go so far as to say that I hate beef from Argentina, and here are the reasons: I hate the fact that the quality of beef from Argentina, for the most part, surpasses beef from the United States in terms of texture and taste. Beef from the United States will never be quite the same to me ever again. I hate that a steak from Argentina, cooked to absolute perfection, is only a fraction of the price of a similar cut of beef from the United States — and few places around the United States offer beef similar in quality and taste to that of Argentina. I hate eating that last delectable morsel of a steak from Argentina, as it means that my gastronomic experience has once again come to an end. I hate that a real steak from Argentina is so far away from where I live.I hate beef from Argentina...
Damn. Now you've done it. Now I gotta book another trip down there. :D

Gee, thanks Canarsie for making me really hungry now. I want some Argentinian Beef, NOW!!!! :D

As the person who originally posted this question and having just returned from Argentina, I can now answer the question for myself.

I do not like beef from Argentina.

In fact, I will even go so far as to say that I hate beef from Argentina, and here are the reasons: I hate the fact that the quality of beef from Argentina, for the most part, surpasses beef from the United States in terms of texture and taste. Beef from the United States will never be quite the same to me ever again. I hate that a steak from Argentina, cooked to absolute perfection, is only a fraction of the price of a similar cut of beef from the United States — and few places around the United States offer beef similar in quality and taste to that of Argentina. I hate eating that last delectable morsel of a steak from Argentina, as it means that my gastronomic experience has once again come to an end. I hate that a real steak from Argentina is so far away from where I live.I hate beef from Argentina...

Don't blame me if you spend your retirement savings to fly to/from Cabana las Lilas for lomo. :D

Another reason to stay away from beef raised in the U.S. and other feedlotting countries (other than free-ranging stuff): The beasts can still be fed cattle blood, poultry litter and restaurant leftovers. U.S.D.A. was supposed to have banned this but hasn't got around to it yet.

See: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/14/national/main709289_page2.shtml

Another reason to stay away from beef raised in the U.S. and other feedlotting countries (other than free-ranging stuff): The beasts can still be fed cattle blood, poultry litter and restaurant leftovers. U.S.D.A. was supposed to have banned this but hasn't got around to it yet.

See: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/14/national/main709289_page2.shtmlIn case you don't know what "poultry litter" is, it's the straw bedding used in commercial poultry farms. It contains straw, chicken sh-t, and chicken feed, chicken feed which can still legally include beef scraps (another mad cow vector)....

"Proudly eating venison since 1971....."

In case you don't know what "poultry litter" is, it's the straw bedding used in commercial poultry farms. It contains straw, chicken sh-t, and chicken feed, chicken feed which can still legally include beef scraps (another mad cow vector)....



I was going to use "poultry manure" instead of "poultry litter" (former is a sbset of the latter as you pointed out) until I found that news bit. Yes, chickens and pigs can be fed by-products of cows and sheep (or beef/lamb/mutton) processing so it all vectors that are supposed to be eliminated/dead-ended and instead open-ended.

BTW, are you at all worried about the SE disease found in elk and other ungulates that live/feed around cattle feedlots?

Argentine beef is better, but the right Argentine using American beef can do a better job than most every steakhouse in America using even American beef.

It's time to start a thread comparing venison to reindeer. :D

I was going to use "poultry manure" instead of "poultry litter" (former is a sbset of the latter as you pointed out) until I found that news bit. Yes, chickens and pigs can be fed by-products of cows and sheep (or beef/lamb/mutton) processing so it all vectors that are supposed to be eliminated/dead-ended and instead open-ended.

BTW, are you at all worried about the SE disease found in elk and other ungulates that live/feed around cattle feedlots?Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD), a cervine form of BSE.

I'm not. I go deer hunting in West Texas (Junction...2.5 hrs W of SAT), and there's never been a a case of CWD in Texas, as far as I know. It's been found in Colorado and Michigan, mostly among farmed elk.

It has prevented me from eating the brains or sweetbreads (hypothumus gland), but I still eat the muscles, kidneys, and liver; and roast and boil the bones for stock. Fergus Henderson, "Nose to Tail Eating." Organ meats can be yummy, and I think it's an insult to God and Nature to waste anything.

Although the guy I've been hunting with just changed leases...he used to cut me a sweet deal on culling does. Might be looking for another hunting spot, as I don't know whatt he deer population will look like this year.

Cannot speak of Argentinian beef yet, but Brazilian meat is far better than US meat.

Another reason to stay away from beef raised in the U.S. and other feedlotting countries (other than free-ranging stuff): The beasts can still be fed cattle blood, poultry litter and restaurant leftovers. U.S.D.A. was supposed to have banned this but hasn't got around to it yet.
Wow - just when you think the US factory farm industry can't get any worse, you find out something new.

This is why I'm eating a lot more vegetarian these days. When there's high quality, tasty, healthy meat available (e.g. free range, hormone/anti-biotic free, grass fed) I'll go with it. When my option is eating "poultry litter" I'll stick with the vegetarian dish.

Wow - just when you think the US factory farm industry can't get any worse, you find out something new.

This is why I'm eating a lot more vegetarian these days. When there's high quality, tasty, healthy meat available (e.g. free range, hormone/anti-biotic free, grass fed) I'll go with it. When my option is eating "poultry litter" I'll stick with the vegetarian dish.I'm surprised there aren't any boutique cattle ranches in Upstate. Here in Texas, there's a place I patronize near Waco...pure, grass fed stuff. Not much more expensive than factory farmed, and they cut to order. I'd suspect that halal/kosher meats are probably better also.

http://www.homesteadlandandcattle.com/index.html

I do very little cooking, but the one time I did go buy steak at Whole Foods recently the organic/grass fed meat was actually cheaper than the regular stuff.

Here's another reason to avoid most beef produced in N. America.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=22708

Most Argentine Beef is not "finished" in feed lots as is almost all US beef, and as a result will generally have a bit more flavor (or at least a different flavor from our corn-fattened cattle). Additionally, Argentine steers get to live a bit longer than the US ones, barely more than veal at slaughter. Those of us who live in areas where cattle are raised and who have access to family or friends in the business can buy grass fed beef (and often do). It can be a bit chewier, but carries more flavor, especially if allowed to become a couple of years old before the sledge or bullet to the forehead.

Most Argentine Beef is not "finished" in feed lots as is almost all US beef, and as a result will generally have a bit more flavor (or at least a different flavor from our corn-fattened cattle). Additionally, Argentine steers get to live a bit longer than the US ones, barely more than veal at slaughter. Those of us who live in areas where cattle are raised and who have access to family or friends in the business can buy grass fed beef (and often do). It can be a bit chewier, but carries more flavor, especially if allowed to become a couple of years old before the sledge or bullet to the forehead.


I admit to be a very strong devotee of grass fed beef compared to its lot fed equivalent - while it might be it might be chewier, a good cut will be the same as its lot fed equivalent, and in my opinion will have far more taste.

I can certainly compare good Australian steaks with their US and also Kobe equivalents, but I can't compare the Argentinian equivalent.

Nevertheless, FTs may be interested in the following web site which goes to the heart of the matter in the longer term

www.acresusa.com/magazines/archives/0904AndersenInt.htm.

FTs may also be interested to know that according to the International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements, the numbers of hectares under organic management throughout the world are

Australia 12,000,000 hectares
Latin America 6,300,000 hectares
North America 1,400,000 hectares

My guess would be that the majority of Latin America and Australia's land would be open grass land grazing.

I am not a green wierdo, and I am not convinced with some of the science quoted on the web page above, but the author has serious academic credentials, and has travelled and lectured extensively in recent years in Australia and New Zealand.

For me in terms of taste, it is an issue between Argentinian and Australian steaks, and the US wouldn't be in the hunt with all due deference to my US friends, but Australia now has such a huge influence from Asia that the traditional concentration on steak has declined substantialiy.

I guess that Argentinia still has a very strong tradition with the handling and cooking of beef, with all that that entails.

On the sister thread on steak houses, I will probably be assaulted by my Kiwi friends in saying that I have yet to find a decent steakhouse in New Zealand, but I can say that good Kiwi lamb is superb.

All that needs to happen is a good free trade agricultural access to the US market, and let some decent competition begin, both for lamb and beef ;)

Argentina may have the famous parrillas and pampas tradition, but as I recall from when I lived in Chile, most of the beef in the grocery stores there was imported not from Argentina but from Uruguay. I also remember -- although I am not sure about this -- reading somewhere that a hefty percentage of the beef consumed in Argentina is also imported from Uruguay.

In case you don't know what "poultry litter" is, it's the straw bedding used in commercial poultry farms. It contains straw, chicken sh-t, and chicken feed, chicken feed which can still legally include beef scraps (another mad cow vector).."
This is spot on. Some of what is acceptable in normal animal feeding in the US and many places is disgusting.

That said, I wouldnt couch Whole Foods as the holy grail either. To farm food on the scale that they buy at, you will be breaching a lot of laws of nature, just the same. Thats the truth, "organic" or not.

At the end of the day, to get real food farmed in a natural way, we would all have to accept much more reallstic (ie far higher) prices, and we need to eat more variety of foods not just meat.

And if you think cow is an animal than natually feeds on corn or soy, well......I've got a few bridges you should take a look at. We can start in Brooklyn.

...I can certainly compare good Australian steaks with their US and also Kobe equivalents, but I can't compare the Argentinian equivalent....The best steakhouse in EZE (and probably the best one in Argentina, but I haven't spent enough time there to determine that) is Las Lilas and grows, slaughters and ages their own beef. It is fully vertically integrated, owning not just the ranch but all aspects of the operation (from breeding to serving in the restaurant). Probably the best beef in the world. My point is that the key difference isn't between Australia and Argentina, but with processing practices. Rather interestingly most southern hemisphere beef is markedly different from northern hemisphere beef (be it US, Scottish, French or Japanese). Generally leaner (less fat) and stronger tasting (more grass). This is true for most beef in South America, be it Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil, South Africa and Australia. Genetic and growing/processing practices within a country make more difference than between countries, from my experience. Rather ironically the best beef typically has no distribution channel (you have to find and procure it yourself).

On a trip to Europe, I noticed a plethora of restaurants touting Argentine beef and steaks.

I have never tried Argentine beef, as I think I will wait until I am able to get to Argentina one day to sample the genuine article.

I was wondering if anybody has tried both Argentine beef and American beef? If so, which is better — or, at least, what are the differences? What makes Argentine beef distinctive?

The Argentine beef I've had is similar to (and just as good as) grass fed beef I've eaten produced domestically. Both are a world of difference from the hormone inject, corn fed, feed lot finished, extremely fatty stuff that's what I would consider "American" (i.e., US) beef. Between the two I think I prefer grass fed, but it depends a bit on the cut of beef. Rib Eye for example I find just too fatty in its corn fed iteration, but the grass fed version is excellent.

The best steakhouse in EZE (and probably the best one in Argentina, but I haven't spent enough time there to determine that) is Las Lilas and grows, slaughters and ages their own beef. It is fully vertically integrated, owning not just the ranch but all aspects of the operation (from breeding to serving in the restaurant). Probably the best beef in the world. My point is that the key difference isn't between Australia and Argentina, but with processing practices. Rather interestingly most southern hemisphere beef is markedly different from northern hemisphere beef (be it US, Scottish, French or Japanese). Generally leaner (less fat) and stronger tasting (more grass). This is true for most beef in South America, be it Uruguay, Argentina or Brazil, South Africa and Australia. Genetic and growing/processing practices within a country make more difference than between countries, from my experience. Rather ironically the best beef typically has no distribution channel (you have to find and procure it yourself).

I have also had the steak at Las Lilas and did not care for the strong grassy flavor of the beef. I think it really just come down to a matter of taste, after all.

I have also had the steak at Las Lilas and did not care for the strong grassy flavor of the beef. I think it really just come down to a matter of taste, after all.Excellent point and it was discussed extensively on another thread (maybe years ago). There is a distinctive taste (and texture) to Las Lilas; it is not for everyone. Many like the rich, buttery taste of US Prime beef, and its soft texture. Las Lilas is almost the anti-thesis to this (as is Australian beef, for the most part). I like it because of the "terroir" element.

Hello,

I am new to this forum and have read with great interest all the comments about Argentine beef.

Here is my question/situation and I welcome advice:

I am an American recently transferred to Germany. I have never been a big fan of beef nor a very good cook of it either. But I am having guests over for dinner and they love beef. I don't recognize the cuts of beef here in Germany at all and have heard the beef is not very good anyway. I can find Argentine beef (rather expensive but that is ok -- it is for guests and I want to make them happy!) but I cannot really recogonize the cut. The label on what I purchased as a test is called "huftsteak". The butcher sliced it only an 1/2 thick or so. I want to grill. Anyone have any experience with beef, and in particular, Argentine beef, in Germany?

When I do eat beef, I actually enjoy flank steak or flat iron when cooked and cut right.

Thanks!

Hello,

I am new to this forum and have read with great interest all the comments about Argentine beef.

Here is my question/situation and I welcome advice:

I am an American recently transferred to Germany. I have never been a big fan of beef nor a very good cook of it either. But I am having guests over for dinner and they love beef. I don't recognize the cuts of beef here in Germany at all and have heard the beef is not very good anyway. I can find Argentine beef (rather expensive but that is ok -- it is for guests and I want to make them happy!) but I cannot really recogonize the cut. The label on what I purchased as a test is called "huftsteak". The butcher sliced it only an 1/2 thick or so. I want to grill. Anyone have any experience with beef, and in particular, Argentine beef, in Germany?



When I do eat beef, I actually enjoy flank steak or flat iron when cooked and cut right.

Thanks!


No experience with Argentine beef in Germany but Huft or hip steak would be the equivalent of a rumpsteak. At just 1/2" thich it wouldn't be much good grilled. You should have the Metzgerei or Butcher Shop cut the steak thicker.
Lendenstueck would be the equivalent of a sirloin.

I read this (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/30/bloomberg/bxbeef.php) in the IHT last week. It'll be pretty sad if it's true.

Argentina may have the famous parrillas and pampas tradition, but as I recall from when I lived in Chile, most of the beef in the grocery stores there was imported not from Argentina but from Uruguay. I also remember -- although I am not sure about this -- reading somewhere that a hefty percentage of the beef consumed in Argentina is also imported from Uruguay.

There is very little difference between the two meats, cooking styles, (or cultures/traditions for that matter) - though until very recently Uruguay was certified to export to the US while Argentina was not.

I have another vote for Australian beef. If you are in Sydney, try Kingsley's Steak House, or if you are cooking your own food (summer BBQ maybe?), go to Glenmore Meats and buy a "Young Scotch Fillet". Glenmore meat is a wholesaler with a small retail store attached. They will cut the meat to your request.

Whole Foods sometimes sells Australian or New Zealand grass fed beef and it is great.

In the US, Strip House in NYC has the best steaks I have had, but if you are on a budget, Outback Steak House have (at least last time I was there) a selection of Premium steaks, which I think are of a similar standard to Morton's. Outback & Morton's share the same beef supplier, so I was not surprised.



www.kingsleyssteak.com.au
www.glenmoremeat.com.au

Read this article on the plane yesterday:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118920026703920971.html

Pretty interesting stuff. Grade is more important than source and age has a lot to do with flavor.

There is very little difference between the two meats, cooking styles, (or cultures/traditions for that matter) - though until very recently Uruguay was certified to export to the US while Argentina was not.
I agree. I'm not saying there's a detectable taste difference; I'm saying there's a lot of talk about Argentinian beef, while Uruguay may be in fact the unsung hero of regional grass-fed beef production.

As for another poster's comment about Argentinian beef seeming to be easier to digest, this reminded me of a comment in Darwin's The Voyage of the Beagle expressing sheer awe at the amount of beef an Argentinian gaucho consumed in a typical day. When I get this book out of storage (I'm slowly working my way through the 30-some boxes of stuff I shipped home from Chile), I'll find this quote and post it.

...
As for another poster's comment about Argentinian beef seeming to be easier to digest, this reminded me of a comment in Darwin's The Voyage of the Beagle expressing sheer awe at the amount of beef an Argentinian gaucho consumed in a typical day. When I get this book out of storage (I'm slowly working my way through the 30-some boxes of stuff I shipped home from Chile), I'll find this quote and post it.

The recent Bourdain No Reservations show on Argentina had a very descriptive bit with gauchos talking about the necessity drinking a lot of mate if you eat a lot of beef (and no veggies). Beef and malbec alone apparently caused major digestive problems.

Remember, cows are a major emitter of methane, a greenhouse gas.

Eat as many as you can to save the planet.

Hurry! ^


Grass fed beef is readily available in the US. It has a distinctive taste from the corn-fed beef generally sourced by US markets. Personally I like it better, but YMMV.

Mst commercial U.S. beef is raised on corn and injected with growth hormones and other substances. The injections allow the cows to eat the corn without getting ill -- nature intended for cows to eat grasses, not corn) and also grow more quickly so producers can get them to the markets with more efficiency. The NY Times detailed this science in an excellent feature some time ago in the Sunday magazine.

As I understand it, if you've ever had naturally-rasied, non-chemical, grass-fed beef, you'll have a sense of what true Argentinian beef is supposed to be like. As Willie says, it's known for a different flavor and it's supposed to be leaner as well.

That said, I don't know if natural U.S. beef is necessarily "better" than Argentinian beef, but it may be significantly different, depending on the level of quality and the breed of cattle.

FYI, if you have a Wild Oats or Whole Foods market in your area, you may be able to find Coleman beef steaks or beef from other producers. In my experience these are of much higher quality than typical grocery store beef. As with the poultry and pork they sell, the flavors and textures are much better IMO, plus you're eating natural unprocessed meat. With true butcher shops disappearing in many towns, this may be one of your few options short of mail order from retailers like Dean & Deluca.

I shop at Whole foods almost exclusively. The meat, dairy, etc. I can't even eat the main stream market meat/poultry anymore.

If you buy a Whole Foods chicken breast/steak, believe me, you will see the difference.

Wirelessly posted (Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x320)

I cant believe I didnt find this thread before..... :D

Here's a bit of news about the Argentinean beef industry.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34368080/ns/business-world_business/

Looks like Argentina will have to actually import beef in a few years because of all the conversion of grazing land to soya bean production (which is ironically exported to feed cattle in Europe and China).

Anecdotally, my partner and I found that the beef we were served in Argentina this past few weeks was overall much fibrous and not as nice as what we had in early 2003.

Here's a bit of news about the Argentinean beef industry.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34368080/ns/business-world_business/

Looks like Argentina will have to actually import beef in a few years because of all the conversion of grazing land to soya bean production (which is ironically exported to feed cattle in Europe and China).

Anecdotally, my partner and I found that the beef we were served in Argentina this past few weeks was overall much fibrous and not as nice as what we had in early 2003.

We went to my favorite places, El Establo (twice) and La Brigada, last week and didn't find this to be the case. Amazing lomo. BTW, does anyone understand why waiters in Buenos Aires cut everything with a SPOON? Is it to demonstrate how tender the meat is? Are the edges of those spoons sharpened? :D

We went to my favorite places, El Establo (twice) and La Brigada, last week and didn't find this to be the case. Amazing lomo. BTW, does anyone understand why waiters in Buenos Aires cut everything with a SPOON? Is it to demonstrate how tender the meat is? Are the edges of those spoons sharpened? :D

You probably went to a better restaurant that serves Aberdeen and red Anguses instead of brahmin/texas Long Horn type cows (preferred for growing up north). We only had one night in Bs As and chose some place near our hotel in the theatre district that appeared popular with locals. Just a random sample proved disappointing. The meat served at a popular restaurant (highly recommended by our host) in the heart of cattle-raising country wasn't much better.