GLBT Travelers - How do you know?

This may seem a bit off target, but my ex from seven years ago, took me to lunch today. The subject of our conversation (after really not spending any time together in seven years, and a three year relationship) was bizarre. He asked me this...
"How did you KNOW that you wanted a 'longterm, monogamous, committed, relationship' and when did you figure it out?"

Of course it made me feel good years later to be asked this, but it made me wonder about being gay and about our upbringing and what made me KNOW that I wanted "forever" with someone. It is just gay/lesbian? or is this part of the 53% of marriages that fail? Anyway, the point here is this... He used to travel a LOT for his company, and while on the road he cheated. He wasn't ready for commitment. Do YOU feel that when you travel that this may contribute to the possibility of cheating because he/she will never know? OR (where I am) Perhaps it is more a "I can't wait to get home to see him/her".

Perhaps this is the wrong place to post, yet, i feel it may appeal to us more than the general public. How do you know and how do you deal with travel without your partner?

Thanks for your input!

Well, "out-of-town rules" seems to be unique to we gay boys (I don't think that the girls have such a thing).

It allows us to answer the 2 questions differently. I know I want forever with my boyfriend, but sex and love are 2 different things.

Cheating is about violating trust. But if trust means that you trust each other to play safely and to not make emotional attachments outside the relationship, then it isn't cheating.

(I'm sure I'm just dropping jaws all over flyertalk today as everybody assumed I was Ralph Reid in disguise.)

With all due respect to robb's response, for me the idea of "trust" is simply abstinence when on the road. There is no space for negotiation. I am genetically incapable of saying that I live with somebody, am in a relationship with that person whom I love, and yet go out and spend time with another, being safe or not is for me not a consideration.

To answer your question, my mentality is that of "I wanna go home now and give him a hug and tell him I missed him (then log onto aa.com and check out my miles)". Like when I was in AMS and not yet living with my ex, any day he could not meet me due to work, I would walk by several playhouses and yet not feel a single attraction to them at all. There wasn't even that "can I or should I" question. It's that clear cut for me, and I think I should be thankful for that. Some other people can and do feel the grey areas which I do not. But at the end of the day, I think the best litmus would be exactly what a person truly feels inside him. If playing around does not feel like a "betrayal", then it simply isn't to him. Whether the other half agrees or not remains to be worked out. I know that if I were to do it, I would never be able to look directly and honestly into his eyes again - not ever.

Just my two canadian cents.

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Spare the miles, spoil the flight!

Interesting topic, thanks for posting it.

When I was on the road on business, during times when I was in relationships, I didn't "go out and play." Never felt like it.

But...I know of long term, successful committed couples who are in open relationships and have no desire for monogamy.

Just as I know of long term, successful committed couples who are in monogamous relationships and have no desire to have sex outside of them.

What works for people, and what they agree upon, is something that has to be worked out by every couple.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maple:
"I wanna go home now and give him a hug and tell him I missed him (then log onto aa.com and check out my miles)". </font>

"I wanna go home now and log onto ual.com ,check out my miles (then give him a hug and tell him I missed him)". http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif



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http://mapage.noos.fr/fles/

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maple:
(then log onto aa.com and check out my miles
</font>

phew....what a relief! here I thought I was the only one who felt like this.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb:
Cheating is about violating trust. But if trust means that you trust each other to play safely and to not make emotional attachments outside the relationship, then it isn't cheating.</font>

That's the best, most succinct description of my opinion I've ever seen.

robb speaks for me too. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

David

This topic hits so close to home it is scary. About 9 weeks ago I ended a LTR because of this issue. Since we met I have been in positions where I travelled, gone 3 or 4 days at a time, if longer, I would fly him down to meet me for a weekend etc. Suddenly I found myself unemployed and not travelling... then I found out something else as well.

While I was on the road, missing him and thinking how great it would be to fly back on X day and be with him again, he was cheating on me. When I found out I was hurt, felt betrayed and it felt like someone ripped out my heart and stomped on it. Sad thing is, he didn't see it that way - he believes it is only sex, not attachment so I shouldn't get upset. He came from a family where Mom & Dad always had 1 or 2 on the side, and everyone sleeps with everyone. I come from the stable, be together for 40+ years background.

In the end it was not something I could live with. Cheat one me once, we can work through it, cheat on me repeatedly, there is nothing to work through.

As one who has experienced the pain of a cheating spouse firsthand, all I can say is NEVER cheat on someone. If you both agree to open etc., then that is fine, but if not, you have to respect the other person's opinion or not be together - to do otherwise just isn't right.

As for how you know you want to spend time with a person and be committed - not sure it is the same for everyone. I just remember cuddling one night in front of the TV (before we lived together, bought the house etc.) and thinking this is where I want to be for the rest of my life. I still cling to the dream it will happen with someone who values what I value, but until that time I will remain single... less heartache.

Another Canadian 2 cents worth (what is that half-a-cent US?

MapleLeaf I am sorry to hear that. I completely identify with you about that "how do you know" part. One day, in my ex's house in AMS, we were watching the news (he was, I don't understand a word of dutch), he was sitting up while I was laying casually on his thighs. We were holding hands, and I was just smiling and looking into his bright blue eyes.

And I said, "You make me feel like the happiest man in the whole world. I lived the dream of my whole life in one day. Thank you." I was so sure then that my life was going to be perfect. But it just wasn't to be, and not because one cheated on the other. Till today I am not sure what happened, but believe it to be the age dynamics going on. For once, my youth worked against me.

PS. Is this out of topic?

[This message has been edited by maple (edited 08-11-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by maple:
For once, my youth worked against me.

PS. Is this out of topic?

[This message has been edited by maple (edited 08-11-2002).]</font>

Not at all Maple (nice nic)... I think the exact opposite happened with us. He was the younger one and perhaps he didn't see things from the same plane as I did.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
... perhaps he didn't see things from the same plane as I did.</font>

Cheeky you... pun intended, wasn't it? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by maple (edited 08-11-2002).]

I'll never tell http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dgolds:
What works for people, and what they agree upon, is something that has to be worked out by every couple.</font>

Well said, David. The tough part is finding someone with whom you CAN work it out.

Last week I was asking a friend where all the monogamous, relationship-minded men are. Now I know, they're in Canada.

As Dr. Evil would say, ****.

-alan in seattle

Interesting topic so I hope you don't mind if add my two cents (or three if you account for inflation). My partner and I were together for 14 years until this past January when he passed away. Looking back on it, I'm not really sure when we decided that we wanted to spend our lives together. I knew from the time I came out that I wanted a life-long relationship - I think a lot of it had to be in how I was raised. I don't know if we ever made a conscious decision that we were going to be together for life - it just happened. We started out as friends and something took root and blossomed into a loving relationship that kept growing over the years.

I wasn't traveling when we first got together but when I did start working more on the road, I think it made our relationship stronger. I truly believe that absence does make the heart grow fonder IF the foundation of the relationship is solid to begin with. I've seen some posts debating having a monogamous relationship versus and open relationship. Both sides make good points but I believe that each couple needs to decide what the basis of the relationship is going to be. For some, being 100% monogamous is the only way to go. For others, the occasional "extra-curricular" activity is acceptable. Whatever is decided, it has to be a mutual decision that both people agree on.

For those of us who travel, there are always going to be challenges in making a relationship last. In my case, there were two main issues to deal with. The first was with so called friends who took every opportunity to try to drive us apart by implying that one of us was "cheating" when the other wasn't around. They would pull me aside when I got home and say "Do you know that he went out with so and so last week?" or they would pull him aside and say, "Oh, he's in New York.....you know he's out having sex with someone." Fortunately, the trust and honesty that we had between us allowed us to overcome this particular issue. We were always open with each other and that was one thing that helped our relationship survive. The second issue that we dealt with was that opportunities did come up that were a temptation. There were times when I was working in Europe where I was gone for up to six weeks at a stretch. We both realized that it was going to be difficult to be apart for so long. To deal with this, we sat down and talked about what our relationship was and what we meant to each other. After discussing it in-depth we decided that if one of us were tempted and we wanted to act upon it, we could, but with rules. We would always be safe, always tell each other, and once it was over, it was over. To us, our relationship was built on more than just the sexual aspect and that's why I think it lasted. In a way, by coming to this agreement, I think we lessened the urge to fool around when we were apart - sort of taking away the forbidden fruit, so to speak. If anything, this made our relationship stronger by showing that we had faith and trust in each other.

The challenges of being on the road are similar for all couples, whether they be gay or straight. How people in a relationship face these challenges depends on the individuals. If the relationship is built on a strong foundation, then the relationship can survive even when two people are apart. Open relationships work for some people and monogamous relationships work for others. Each couple has to determine which works best for them. Some would say that my partner and I had an open relationship because of the discussion and agreement that we came to. We alway looked at it as a monogamous relationship because, even though we agreed we could "play", we didn't. In any event, being on the road doesn't necessarily mean that a true, loving relationship isn't possible. It just means that it has to be worked at a little harder.

Ok. I'm done http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif I'll get off the soap box now and let someone else have a turn http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by alanw:
Last week I was asking a friend where all the monogamous, relationship-minded men are. Now I know, they're in Canada.

-alan in seattle</font>

Feel free to come for a visit http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

http://www3.sympatico.ca/geppetto/bounce.gif

great post, CDF.

I agree totally. Others seem to suggest that there are 2 choices: monogamous and relationship-oriented or "open relationship".

First of all, the phrase "open relationship" makes me think of gold chains and shirts open down to the navel on hairy chests. Secondly, like CDF, we have a few well-defined rules that are fairly rarely invoked. We would consider ourselves only one notch below 100% monogamous if Kinsey had a monogamous scale (maybe they do!), and after 8 years together, we're pretty clearly relationship-oriented.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb:
...the phrase "open relationship" makes me think of gold chains and shirts open down to the navel on hairy chests.</font>

Don't talk about me like I'm not here!

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif
David

Thanks for the great post, CDF.

I agree, it's all about talking openly and honestly and coming to an agreement you can both honor.

It never ceases to amaze me that even other gay men often can't understand that even though my partner and I are not 100% sexually monogamous, we are emotionally monogamous and there are agreed-upon rules as to any extra-curricular sexual play. We may not be Ozzie and Harriet, but we're not total s*l*u*t*s either.

I don't expect others to intuit the details of our relationship boundaries, but I do expect them to respect those boundaries when told about them. Suprisingly few do.

[Edited to get around the stupid censorship program]


[This message has been edited by chazas (edited 08-13-2002).]

Thanks for all the responses to my original post. It was good to read what everyone had to say and how they look upon things in a different or even same light. I appreciate it!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IndyDavid:
Don't talk about me like I'm not here!

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif
David</font>

hubba hubba

I'm going to be "negotiating" one of these "deals" when my bf goes off to grad school next month.

I was wondering if some of you who have a more open relationship might want to share some of the rules of the game? Also, do you tell new people that you meet about your situation, or just let the new encounter play out on its own?

Thanks

d

I don't think it matters what rules you have, Doppy, so much as matters whether you have sat down, talked and agreed on what they are. Propose what you would like and see what the reaction is. If he demands a monogamous relationship and you can't live with that, I think you need to examine whether you want to continue in the relationship. Otherwise, you are both in for a world of hurt. If you "cheat," you'll feel guilty and resent him for having to sneak around. If he finds out, he'll be devastated.

From my own perspective, I think it is much easier if all parties remember where most men's brains are a good deal of the time and take that into account. Again, IMHO, sex and love are not synonymous.

You both have to think out what worries you about the arrangement and make rules to protect yourselves against those sorts of things.

You might have rules that protect against emotional bonds forming outside the relationship (never the same person twice, no one you know, no phone numbers), rules that limit which activities can be performed (safer sex only, no x, y, or z), and/or rules that serve to protect the integrity of your relationship (only when 1 is out of town, never in your shared bed). A big one is often "always tell" or "never tell", and that's one you'll have to figure out.

The rules are just there to protect your shared values. That's why you have to talk about them. You both love each other and the rules are a way to force both of you to talk about your feelings (not exactly guy stuff!). Once you clearly know each others feelings, it isn't the rules that are important but the fact that you know what your partner needs and you'll naturally honor them.