Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies - Dealing direct with hotel

If I bid a given price and get a hotel, and I consistently do this over time, is it possible to deal directly with the hotel? Or do their agreements prohibit cutting Priceline out of the loop?

I've been at the same hotel at the same price for about a month, and I expect to do this for the next year or so.

It would save me money (no Priceline fees) and it would save them money (I think).

Given that, it's probably against the rules. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

it's probably a no-go but i would contact the revenue/rooms manager of the hotel. if you are going to be there for a while and have a proven track record, they might cut you a good deal with or without mentioning Priceline.

I'm never afraid to ask a hotel to match a PL bid if I'm going to stay extra nights. However, with one exception, I've always been turned down.

Once, at the Seattle Airport Doubletree, they allowed me to stay 2 extra nights at the PL bid rate that I had received for the prior two nights (about $26). The front desk manager approved the rate.

Interesting question. I tend to doubt that namy hotels would go with this,but it would be interesting to see if others have had success.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BigLar:
If I bid a given price and get a hotel, and I consistently do this over time, is it possible to deal directly with the hotel? Or do their agreements prohibit cutting Priceline out of the loop?
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might be, but who's to know?

I'm under the impression that the hotels do not see the $ that you pay to PL. They probably are getting 1-3% less than what you pay. Hence for a hotel that "needs" business you might be able to cut a deal direct.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
I'm never afraid to ask a hotel to match a PL bid if I'm going to stay extra nights. However, with one exception, I've always been turned down.</font>

my experience as well.


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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
I'm never afraid to ask a hotel to match a PL bid if I'm going to stay extra nights. However, with one exception, I've always been turned down.</font>

Have you ever been successful going on Priceline after this happens and bidding the same price for the extra nights?

Many hotels do indeed accept longer-term stays at low prices. I know people who live in hotels in NYC and here in Boston. In fact, I know people who pay what would be per daily basis somewhere around the Priceline rate, and long-term residents live in suites.

Hotels have month-by-month pricing, and it is certainly negotiable. You will probably not receive daily maid service. But you will get the conveniences, and at around $2500 per month it is a value for housing in certain cities.

Many hotels do indeed accept longer-term stays at low prices. I know people who live in hotels in NYC and here in Boston. In fact, I know people who pay what would be per daily basis somewhere around the Priceline rate, and long-term residents live in suites.

Hotels have month-by-month pricing, and it is certainly negotiable. You will probably not receive daily maid service. But you will get the conveniences, and at around $2500 per month it is a value for housing in certain cities.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Factotum:
Have you ever been successful going on Priceline after this happens and bidding the same price for the extra nights?</font>

Yes.

I'm under the impression that most hotels aren't allowed to match the PL price, even if it's a price that they'll accept the same day directly from PL.

I suppose it sets a dangerous precedent if they directly accept such a low rate.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

I'm under the impression that the hotels do not see the $ that you pay to PL. They probably are getting 1-3% less than what you pay. Hence for a hotel that "needs" business you might be able to cut a deal direct.


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The hotels don't see your bid. However, they aren't necessarily getting just 1-3% less.

The hotel agrees to accept a set rate for the room from PL...let's say it's $25. PL will only accept bids from people who bid $26 or more on that room. If you bid $26, PL makes $1(plus their added fee) and the hotel gets the $25.

If you're foolish enough to bid $49, PL keeps the $24, and the hotel still only gets the $25.

The hotel has no idea how much you bid...only that PL paid them $25 for the room.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
The hotels don't see your bid. However, they aren't necessarily getting just 1-3% less.

The hotel agrees to accept a set rate for the room from PL...let's say it's $25. PL will only accept bids from people who bid $26 or more on that room. If you bid $26, PL makes $1(plus their added fee) and the hotel gets the $25.

If you're foolish enough to bid $49, PL keeps the $24, and the hotel still only gets the $25.

The hotel has no idea how much you bid...only that PL paid them $25 for the room.

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Some misunderstandings in the above post.

* Hotels can have more than one priceline rate. Your example "If you're foolish enough to bid $49, PL keeps the $24, and the hotel still only gets the $25." is right only if the highest priceline rate the hotel offers is $25. The hotel may also have a $45 or a $48 rate! Odds are that Priceline isn't keeping the whole $24 in your example.

* The hotel doesn't know WHAT YOU BID but they do know WHICH PRICELINE RATE YOU BOOKED. So if the priceline rate is $25 and you bid $26, the hotel sees the $25 rate and pockets $25 for your stay minus a commission to priceline.

* The hotel doesn't get the full priceline rate (in your example $25). Instead, Priceline also keeps a commission off that rate.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gleff:
Some misunderstandings in the above post.

* Hotels can have more than one priceline rate. Your example "If you're foolish enough to bid $49, PL keeps the $24, and the hotel still only gets the $25." is right only if the highest priceline rate the hotel offers is $25. The hotel may also have a $45 or a $48 rate! Odds are that Priceline isn't keeping the whole $24 in your example.

* The hotel doesn't know WHAT YOU BID but they do know WHICH PRICELINE RATE YOU BOOKED. So if the priceline rate is $25 and you bid $26, the hotel sees the $25 rate and pockets $25 for your stay minus a commission to priceline.

* The hotel doesn't get the full priceline rate (in your example $25). Instead, Priceline also keeps a commission off that rate.

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So ...

A: If you bid $49, what are you getting if the hotel has a $45 rate? A better room? If you bid $44, you get the $25 room - if you bid $45, you get the $45 room, right?

B: According to another poster, Priceline essentially "buys" the room for, say, $ 24 and sells it for what it can. PL keeps the difference and charges a fee. But according to you, PL takes a commision from the hotel AND charges you a fee. Wow. Bill Shatner, look out. They make it coming and going.

So how can we find out if a hotel has more than one priceline rate (do most have it?). Does this mean that if we bid $26 for a 2* property we might get Hotel A, and if we bid $50 for a 3* property, we might still get Hotel A, albeit with a better room ?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gleff:
Some misunderstandings in the above post.

* Hotels can have more than one priceline rate. Your example "If you're foolish enough to bid $49, PL keeps the $24, and the hotel still only gets the $25." is right only if the highest priceline rate the hotel offers is $25. The hotel may also have a $45 or a $48 rate! Odds are that Priceline isn't keeping the whole $24 in your example.

* The hotel doesn't know WHAT YOU BID but they do know WHICH PRICELINE RATE YOU BOOKED. So if the priceline rate is $25 and you bid $26, the hotel sees the $25 rate and pockets $25 for your stay minus a commission to priceline.

* The hotel doesn't get the full priceline rate (in your example $25). Instead, Priceline also keeps a commission off that rate.

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This makes no sense at all.

If I bid $26, and PL has rooms available for $25, I'll get the room and PL will pay the hotel.

If I bid $46, and PL has $25 rooms available, they sure as heck aren't going to tell the hotel that I bid $46, and then pay the hotel more money.

There is no way that PL could have two separate rates with the same hotel. It makes no sense. It's like saying that the 7-11 has two different prices on Pepsi, and it's up to you to choose the higher or lower one.

If that were true, PL would always choose the lower rate. Why would they ever admit to the hotel that a higher rate was bid?

NO YOU'RE NOT GETTING A BETTER ROOM. Hotels have different rates for the same room (rack rate, corporate rate, AAA rate...). Hotels are allowed to have up to 3 PL rates. The purpose is to simulate the bidding process. At 3 different price points your "bid" was accepted. What it does mean is bidding more hoping to get a better hotel may backfire. You may just wind up with a higher rate at the same hotel.

PL is required to book the room at the HIGHEST QUALIFYING rate that is equal or less than the amount bid (plus or minus any adjustment for any margin/subsidy). That way they are simulating a bidding process. I wasn't aware of PL getting a comission.

[This message has been edited by lewisc (edited 07-14-2003).]

Having different priceline rates for the same hotel is the electronic version of saying, "Try to sell the room for $45, but if someone offers $35, I'll take $35. If you can't get $35 you can sell the room for $25, but don't sell it for less than $25." It gives the hotels a way to hedge their bets in case the inventory is much more or much less distressed than they think it is.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
I'm under the impression that most hotels aren't allowed to match the PL price, even if it's a price that they'll accept the same day directly from PL.

I suppose it sets a dangerous precedent if they directly accept such a low rate.
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You're right... The additional revenue they'd get by cutting out priceline (does that contravene their agreement with same?) is much less than they'd lose if people figured out they could defeat the hotel's rate structure by waving a priceline printout in front of a desk clerk. You gotta draw the line on distressed inventory somewhere, I guess. Oh well, their loss in your case.

On at least two occasions I have purchased a PL room in a sold out Starwood hotel. I am Starwood Platinum, and am pretty certain the hotel had no rooms to offer.

Those rooms were held by either a wholesaler, a broker, or priceline. They were not available to the hotel for full price rental.

On both occasions, I wanted to stay in the Embassy Row Weston, and could not get in at $350. Chose the area in PL, bid $100, and ended up in the Weston.

Also got an upgrade both times.

[This message has been edited by slawecki (edited 07-17-2003).]

I've heard of special travel agent rates for hotels - does anyone know how those relate to rack rate on average?

Also, how about employee rates at hotels (e.g. a Hilton employee)?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BigLar:
A: If you bid $49, what are you getting if the hotel has a $45 rate? A better room? If you bid $44, you get the $25 room - if you bid $45, you get the $45 room, right?
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Assuming only one hotel is available, you get the same room either way -- that is, a room that meets priceline specs (double occupancy, etc).

The hotel just gets more money if there's more than one priceline rate loaded into the system.

If there's only one priceline rate, Priceline gets to keep the overbid amount.

Since Priceline books the highest rate closest to your bid, it will book a $45 rate rather than a $25 rate if both are available. If one hotel has a higher rate than another, you'll get the hotel with the higher rate.

Note that one hotel can have lots of rates, so it doesn't mean you'll get the better or more expensive hotel -- just the one with the rate loaded into the system that most closely matches your bid.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
B: According to another poster, Priceline essentially "buys" the room for, say, $ 24 and sells it for what it can.</font>That other poster is incorrect. If a single hotel has a $24 rate and a $30 rate and a $40 rate, and you bid $42, Priceline books the $40 rate and keeps the $2 overbid, the service fee, and 7% of the $40.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">So how can we find out if a hotel has more than one priceline rate (do most have it?).</font>You can't other than by experience. Sheryl, for all the controversy surrounding her website and its moderation policies, does offer the best resource for figuring this kind of stuff out.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> Does this mean that if we bid $26 for a 2* property we might get Hotel A, and if we bid $50 for a 3* property, we might still get Hotel A, albeit with a better room ?</font>

No. If you bid for a 3* property, you will not get the same property that Priceline offers as 2*. The two have different amenities.

If you bid for a 2* you might get a 3* though.

Gary

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[This message has been edited by gleff (edited 07-19-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
If I bid $26, and PL has rooms available for $25, I'll get the room and PL will pay the hotel.</font>Correct.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If I bid $46, and PL has $25 rooms available, they sure as heck aren't going to tell the hotel that I bid $46, and then pay the hotel more money.</font>Incorrect.

If they have $25 rooms available and $30 rooms available and $45 rooms available, you'll get the $45 rate.

That may be the same room at the same hotel as the $25 rate -- but Priceline will book the highest applicable rate and the hotel will get $45 (minus commission).
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
There is no way that PL could have two separate rates with the same hotel. It makes no sense.</font>This is just false. Hotels can load lots of rates into the system. Just as they can offer lots of rates on the website and just like airlines offer lots of different fares for their seats.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> It's like saying that the 7-11 has two different prices on Pepsi, and it's up to you to choose the higher or lower one.</font>No, it's like saying that an airline offers more than one price for the same seat. Gee, they do that, come to think of it! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

And the 7-11 example is off... you don't know what rates Priceline has. 7/11 has published prices. Priceline's prices are opaque. Two different animals entirely.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If that were true, PL would always choose the lower rate. Why would they ever admit to the hotel that a higher rate was bid?</font>
That's not the deal they make with the hotels. Sorry.

Gary


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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gleff:
Correct.

Incorrect.

If they have $25 rooms available and $30 rooms available and $45 rooms available, you'll get the $45 rate.

That may be the same room at the same hotel as the $25 rate -- but Priceline will book the highest applicable rate and the hotel will get $45 (minus commission).

This is just false. Hotels can load lots of rates into the system. Just as they can offer lots of rates on the website and just like airlines offer lots of different fares for their seats.

No, it's like saying that an airline offers more than one price for the same seat. Gee, they do that, come to think of it! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

And the 7-11 example is off... you don't know what rates Priceline has. 7/11 has published prices. Priceline's prices are opaque. Two different animals entirely.

That's not the deal they make with the hotels. Sorry.

Gary


[/B]</font>

Sorry, but your assumption is laughable. You'are actually implying that Priceline is going to be honest with the hotels, and admit to the hotel that you bid $46 instead of $26?

That isn't the way things work in the real world, and it certainly isn't the way things work at Priceline.

No one except Priceline knows what you bid, and they certainly aren't going to pass that info on to the hotel. What would be their motivation for doing so? Honesty? Give me a break....

If the hotel tells PL that a room is available for $25, PL is going to keep every single dime above $25 that they can. Doing otherwise would be foolish.



[This message has been edited by aconcagua98 (edited 07-19-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
Sorry, but your assumption is laughable. You'are actually implying that Priceline is going to be honest with the hotels, and admit to the hotel that you bid $46 instead of $26?

That isn't the way things work in the real world, and it certainly isn't the way things work at Priceline.

No one except Priceline knows what you bid, and they certainly aren't going to pass that info on to the hotel. What would be their motivation for doing so? Honesty? Give me a break....

If the hotel tells PL that a room is available for $25, PL is going to keep every single dime above $25 that they can. Doing otherwise would be foolish.

[This message has been edited by aconcagua98 (edited 07-19-2003).]</font>


Priceline is a public company. A lot of this information is openly available and published -save from the algorithms they use to determine which hotels you get or how much their margins are. Gleff is correct. Priceline will book the highest rate a hotel has loaded in their system that meets or is lower than your bid. Presumably, this keeps the hotels happy and loading more priceline rates. Whatever difference between your bid and the highest available rate is, plus transaction fees, represent priceline's profit.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arrzee:
Whatever difference between your bid and the highest available rate is, plus transaction fees, represent priceline's profit.</font>

Just need to make one modification. Priceline makes the difference in the bid and the highest applicable rate, their transaction fee, and a commission on the highest applicable rate.

Y'all don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

gleff
That's something I've never heard,but it makes sense.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:
Sorry, but your assumption is laughable. You'are actually implying that Priceline is going to be honest with the hotels, and admit to the hotel that you bid $46 instead of $26?

That isn't the way things work in the real world, and it certainly isn't the way things work at Priceline.

No one except Priceline knows what you bid, and they certainly aren't going to pass that info on to the hotel. What would be their motivation for doing so? Honesty? Give me a break....

[This message has been edited by aconcagua98 (edited 07-19-2003).]</font>

Priceline's motivation for telling the truth is the continued participation of hotels. If hotels were to suspect that Priceline was cheating them in this way -- and if every room was always booked at the lowest Priceline rate they'd be suspicious -- they'd drop Priceline like a ton of bricks. They might even sue Priceline for breach of contract.

Ed

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arrzee:

Priceline is a public company. A lot of this information is openly available and published -save from the algorithms they use to determine which hotels you get or how much their margins are. Gleff is correct. Priceline will book the highest rate a hotel has loaded in their system that meets or is lower than your bid. Presumably, this keeps the hotels happy and loading more priceline rates. Whatever difference between your bid and the highest available rate is, plus transaction fees, represent priceline's profit.</font>


Ok, let me get this straight... you're saying that public companies never lie, cheat or deceive customers or vendors?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aconcagua98:

Ok, let me get this straight... you're saying that public companies never lie, cheat or deceive customers or vendors?</font>

Never? Where did you see that claim?

I can say with certainty that Priceline tells hotels that they'll book the highest applicable rate.

And I can also say with certainty that Priceline has booked rates that were not the lowest loaded into the system.

Priceline's written policy is to book the highest applicable rate.

Does this always happen? I have no direct knowledge. And noone here has claimed direct knowledge that they do not.

I think the presumption would be that on the whole they do. If they ever fail to, it's likely a technology glitch. I don't think it's fair to presume systematic dishonesty in the absence of any evidence whatsoever.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gleff:
Never? Where did you see that claim?

I can say with certainty that Priceline tells hotels that they'll book the highest applicable rate.

And I can also say with certainty that Priceline has booked rates that were not the lowest loaded into the system.

Priceline's written policy is to book the highest applicable rate.

Does this always happen? I have no direct knowledge. And noone here has claimed direct knowledge that they do not.

I think the presumption would be that on the whole they do. If they ever fail to, it's likely a technology glitch. I don't think it's fair to presume systematic dishonesty in the absence of any evidence whatsoever.

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You've obviously never worked for PL http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

aconcagua98, have you worked for Priceline?

Care to share your evidence of PL's dishonesty? (I'm genuinely interested.)

As for the original question...

We had our wedding in Maui 6 weeks ago. In January, we were trying to decide between condos and a moderate hotel. In the end, we chose oceanfront condos and it worked out great.

The hotel I had in mind was the Maui Oceanfront, the only 3* in Kihei (near Wailea). Not oceanfront, but a 5 minute walk. Their typical rate is $140-150/night. I see winning Priceline bids for $65-85.

We sent them a letter in January about our group booking (8-13 rooms for a week). Told them we were aware they worked with Priceline, the airlines, and Pleasant Hawaiian.....could they give us a group discount.

They responded with $99/night. I had hoped for less, but they did at least give us somewhat of a discount.

Our oceanfront condos ended up being about $110/night, great view, full kitchen.

It's rare that you won't get great savings,free rooms,etc. for group business almost everywhere. Not only does this (usually) not anything to do with whether they are a priceline hotel,but a different department (sales)handles this.
I book a lot of group business and often receive free rooms when visiting a hotel.Yet, I've seen it where the sales department tells me there is no availble rooms for the sales department,but it's still available on priceline.Two seperate areas.

When I was at the Embassy Suites NYC , priceline bought, the agent even said I paid $150 for my room..my next trip is hotwire (how do they work?) $129 for the Essex House!
Lowest Rate online is $199.
-AG

This thread has been extremely informative, and perhaps I can add a bit of insider information. It seems that hotels have a corporate account number with Priceline. Just like a hotel has a corporate account with IBM or Fidelity, Priceline has a corporate account number. The corporate account number is associated with the PL rates. I know for a fact that this is how Hilton/Embasy Suites do it. I was able to get the Priceline corporate account number for one of the hotels. I then logged on to the Hilton site, and entered that account number in the appropriate space. I was then able to see a series of Priceline rates that the hotel offers to Priceline. I bet the web site would even let a person book the Priceline corporate hotel rate. It might create a bit of front desk confusion, but I think it could be done.

Also how exactly does Priceline pay a hotel for a rate? I know that there is a Master Card number that Priceline enters in to the record. Does the hotel charge this Master Card the room/tax? Or do the hotels have some sort of direct bill/pay arrangement with Priceline.

This is hard for me to believe, that you were getting rooms via PL at hotels sold out through other channels. It makes more sense to get these rooms through quikbook at similar consolidators, but I thought hotels controlled their PL inventory and if they were tight on rooms they'd pull their inventory from priceline.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slawecki:
[B]On at least two occasions I have purchased a PL room in a sold out Starwood hotel. I am Starwood Platinum, and am pretty certain the hotel had no rooms to offer.

Those rooms were held by either a wholesaler, a broker, or priceline. They were not available to the hotel for full price rental.

On both occasions, I wanted to stay in the Embassy Row Weston, and could not get in at $350. Chose the area in PL, bid $100, and ended up in the Weston.

I used the confirmation number I got from my Priceline bid and logged onto the Coast Hotels site to see my reservation. I was able to see the credit card number the room is charged to (not my own). I think I read elsewhere that Priceline provides one-time use Mastercard numbers to the hotels so they can charge the Priceline bid stays.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BigLar:
If I bid a given price and get a hotel, and I consistently do this over time, is it possible to deal directly with the hotel? Or do their agreements prohibit cutting Priceline out of the loop?

I've been at the same hotel at the same price for about a month, and I expect to do this for the next year or so.
</font>

why not just use the closest internet terminal and bid again with priceline or call home or the office and have them bid for you the extra night?