America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - AWA to launch nonstop transcons

According to the published flight schedules, AWA is about to storm some of the last $2000 transcon bastions. JFK-LAX, 3X day, beginning Oct 26. BOS-LAX, 2X day, October 26. JFK-SFO, 2X day, December 19.

So now the low-cost carrier with the least hype is going to fly the busiest routes.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by iahphx:
According to the published flight schedules, AWA is about to storm some of the last $2000 transcon bastions. JFK-LAX, 3X day, beginning Oct 26. BOS-LAX, 2X day, October 26. JFK-SFO, 2X day, December 19.

So now the low-cost carrier with the least hype is going to fly the busiest routes. </font>

Interesting move -- just when the majors weren't focusing much on HP and their revamped fare structure.

It appears these are new slots for HP at JFK & BOS. I don't see that these new transcon non-stops are happening at the expense of the current non-stop frequencies from PHX & LAS. I don't recall if HP flew from CMH to JFK & BOS. If so, perhaps these slots came from the demise of the CMH mini--hub.

From a PHX- and LAS- based elite standpoint, this will be good. A growing number of HP elites (many of whom were status-matched to HP Platinum http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif because their employers were forcing them to switch to HP because of $$) fly these routes. It will relieve some of the upgrade pressure out of PHX & LAS.

AZ Travels the World,

What do you mean by "slots" in your previous post? Last I checked, BOS is not slot controlled and JFK was only slot controlled during the peak trans-Atlantic arrival and departure period.

&gt;&gt;I don't recall if HP flew from CMH to JFK & BOS.&lt;&lt;

America West did not have CMH-JFK service-- only EWR & LGA. The flights were operated by America West Express at the end. BOS was served by America West also. This flight was a mainline flight at various times, but I think was Express towards the end of its life.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TransWorldOne:
AZ Travels the World,

What do you mean by "slots" in your previous post? Last I checked, BOS is not slot controlled and JFK was only slot controlled during the peak trans-Atlantic arrival and departure period.</font>

I thought both airports were slot-controlled. Perhaps not. You would clearly know this better than I, TransWorldOne. Is gate availability not an issue for HP either?

America West Airlines Announces First Nonstop Transcontinental Flights

Last-Minute Business Fares as Low as $299 Each Way

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030811/lam055b_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030811/lam056_1.html

I find it odd they do it on quite a saturated market such as JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO with fierce competition from B6, DL, UA and AA. EWR or LGA will seem like a better option to break ground for such new routes.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by apirchik:
EWR or LGA will seem like a better option to break ground for such new routes. </font>

You can't fly LGA-LAX/SFO.. there is a 1500 mile perimeter restriction on flights from LGA. AA, CO and UA all have EWR-LAX/SFO flights.

I think the reason they are entering these markets is that there is currently no low-fare carrier (ie. maximum fare of $299 one-way) in any of these markets. JetBlue only flies to OAK and LGB.. not LAX and SFO.

Greg

What other non-hub flights does HP have? (Not including continuing/ tag service).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by zrs70:
What other non-hub flights does HP have? (Not including continuing/ tag service).</font>

Using your definition, none. Express has 2 or 3 tag routes.

------------------
...or passengers swim.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GregL:
You can't fly LGA-LAX/SFO.. there is a 1500 mile perimeter restriction on flights from LGA.</font>
I think it's more than 1,500 miles. For instance, you can fly to Denver from LGA; that's 1,619 miles. However, it's certainly less than 2,500 miles. I don't know whether it's to push long-haul travel to other airports or if the runway length won't permit take-over with that much fuel. ???


- Ed

Denver is the exception from LGA. That and Vail. Those are the only two airports AFAIK that are allowed to be flown to out of LGA.

I believe that SLC was once served NS from LGA with WA (and then DL).

Vail is not an exception, but is permitted on Saturdays, just like US's new LGA-LAS service. That's why AA has traditionally run daily flights EWR-EGE and Saturday flights LGA-EGE during ski season.

I would really like to know what folks think of this HP venture into the JFK-LAX/SFO run. Will they retreat? Will they add flights/upgauged equipment? Will you use it? Will Song come into these markets with a meaningful number of flights?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by zrs70:
I believe that SLC was once served NS from LGA with WA (and then DL).

</font>

The LGA-SLC flight wasn't nonstop, the flight went via BOS. DCA-SLC was also served by Western - via IAD.

Looks like the trans-con non-stops are gonna free up the CRJ's for PHX-TUS (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/Sun/30817DUCOL.html) service! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Is this a new strategy for HP? They severely resisted the idea of non-hub traffic for years. Why I dont' know.

------------------
God Bless America West and ...

HP - Platinum/990k miles
BA - Dirt/5k Soon to be Gold
AA - Dirt/60k, 2MM soon.
UA - Dirt/19k miles
NW - Dirt/10k For emergencies.

There seems to be some debate on the Yahoo AWA board (http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=7080664&tid=awa&sid=7080664&mid=48304) as to the capability of the A319 to make the transcon flights with a full load in the winter, against a strong jetstream without stoppin' for gas. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The A-319 won't be able to do the BOS-SFO or the BOS-LAX transcons in the winter without a fuel stop. It just doesn't have the range.

Winter block times for those flights will be in the neighborhood of 7:00-7:15. Add an additional :45 minutes for reserve and you've got close to 8:00 hours of fuel. This is still not accounting for any "extra" fuel or any "alternate" fuel. The A-319 simply cannot carry that much fuel. </font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by snake:
There seems to be some debate on the Yahoo AWA board (http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=7080664&tid=awa&sid=7080664&mid=48304) as to the capability of the A319 to make the transcon flights with a full load in the winter, against a strong jetstream without stoppin' for gas. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

The A-319 won't be able to do the BOS-SFO or the BOS-LAX transcons in the winter without a fuel stop. It just doesn't have the range.

Winter block times for those flights will be in the neighborhood of 7:00-7:15. Add an additional :45 minutes for reserve and you've got close to 8:00 hours of fuel. This is still not accounting for any "extra" fuel or any "alternate" fuel. The A-319 simply cannot carry that much fuel. </font>


United's do it just fine, so do US Airways. I can't imagine that America West's are that much different in this respect.

There seems to be a rumor on the same board that 757's will be used.

Yahoo! AWA (http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7080664&tid=awa&sid=7080664&mid=48321)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
United's do it just fine, so do US Airways. I can't imagine that America West's are that much different in this respect.</font>

Actually, I know United has problems flying nonstop with their A319s at certain times. Specifically, the IAD-SAN route.

Hmmm BOS-SFO is 2,704 miles, BOS-LAX is 2,611 miles, but IAD-SAN is only 2,253 miles.

Both AA and UA only fly 757's from BOS to the coast.

I should clarify that the problem is with weight. They aren't able to make it fully loaded, so UA ends up bumping passengers and flying with some empty seats.

From what I read the problem is that the A319 has "only" a 42,000 lb capacity fuel tanks. Beyond that they don't have the option to reduce payload and increase fuel load. Reducing payload will reduce fuel burn, but only marginally.