Travel Technology - International Cell Phone Options

I looked through the archives and did not find the information needed.

I am retiring at year-end and plan to do a significant amount of travel in Asia, Africa and Asia over the next year. My question is around what type cell phone service would you recommend, primarily for calls back to the US and limited in-country calling? My research so far has turned up buying country SIM cards or buying a universal Orange/Swiss Card at much higher rates. I am also looking into the option of buying a world phone 900/1800/1900 and buying SIM cards at my destination, but understand there are a number of local providers in most countries with different roaming ability. The countries of major interest are:

South Africa
Mozambique
Zambia
Seychelles
Maldives
Indonesia
Philippines
Fiji
Malaysia

I would base it on your need, I have a triband phone that I take my AT&T SIM out of my domestic phone, slip it in and all is fine. For a call now and then it's a good option, lets people call one number to get me, etc.

If I was on it for any other purpose then a quick call here and there, for business or anything else, then it would be way too expensive, but this works for me.

There was somebody here who had 30 or so differet SIMs for their phone, the discussion was on SIM holders, so first figure out where in there you fit and take it from there.

But if it's going to be limited (I use calling cards to call home if the call will be more then just to check messages) consider getting a GSM phone here and then just move the SIM to a world phone.

You dont really have to get an GSM phone here and a worldphone. If you are using GSM here if you have an carrier unlocked phone (meaning it isnt restricted to one carrier) you can put in a SIM card from anywhere in the world with a GSM phone system (and that is virtually everywhere) and it will work fine. For instance I bought an unlocked Nokia 6310i phone which is a triband world phone. The triband is important to work in the US and the rest of the world. It works here with my TMobile SIM (it also works with ATT SIMS, Ive tested it) and will work in other countries with the Tmobile SIM as well. So I can get calls on my same number anywhere. If I am using it a fair amount it is pretty expensive (although I think cheaper than the Swiss phone card) so in those cases I buy a prepaid phone card in the country I am visiting. I have a couple of accounts in the UK (Virgin and Vodafone - I go there a lot) and have also done this in France and Australia. Sometimes this is vastly cheaper, as I recall it was about $3.00 per minute to roam on my Tmobile card in Australia but only 0.30 AuD to call the US with my Australian card. If you are using the phone a lot and want to save money there are some tricks (perfectly legal) that you can do as well. The important thing is to get an UNLOCKED, TRIBAND, world phone. There are lots made and lots of places you can order them. Some carriers will unlock the phone for you after you have been on them for a while (TMobile for instance) others such as ATT will not unlock phones, period, from what I have read (hence the need to use 2 phones if one is ATT). However, be aware that you can buy a phone unlocked from whatever source, and use it on a network that wont unlock and it will work fine. You just cant get one of the phone/service packages from ATT for instance and use that phone with other cards. I think I have made this more complicated than it is. In my case, the Nokia 6310i was sold locked with a service contract by ATT but I bought mine from a dealer that charged me about an extra $100 to sell it to me direct from Nokia with no service provider information in it. It still has a Nokia warranty, but I have to program the internet data stuff in it. If I was just using voice, voicemail, etc, I just had to put my Tmobile SIM card in it and it would work fine.

Also be aware, that it is typically vastly more expensive to buy cards here to use in other countries as opposed to buying them in those countries. Do a few searches on things like "prepaid GSM phone" and related and you will find a considerable number of threads on these topics.

[This message has been edited by GadgetFreak (edited Dec 02, 2003).]

If you have a landline and your phone provider allows for remote call forwarding, just change the call forward number to your local pre-paid SIM-based number and/or have someone at the landline location set up the call forward as needed. You avoid the international roaming charges and have the same number for incoming calls as far as others are aware.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GUWonder:
If you have a landline and your phone provider allows for remote call forwarding, just change the call forward number to your local pre-paid SIM-based number and/or have someone at the landline location set up the call forward as needed. You avoid the international roaming charges and have the same number for incoming calls as far as others are aware.</font>


I actually forward my Verizon phone to my Tmobile phone, then forward my Tmobile to my prepaid SIM. It seems that to roam in Europe is considerably more expensive than to call Europe and when it is forwarded to a European number it counts as a call on my Tmobile account to Europe rather than international roaming in Europe. Some people dont want to deal with that though. And it gets complicated (at least to me) if you are getting/sending a lot of SMS messages since those dont seem to forward.

Go to www.telestial.com (http://www.telestial.com) and look at the Hop Abroad SIM. After initial purchase it allows access to 70+ countries at 95 cents outgoing and 35 cents incomming. If you will be in one country for a while, local sims are far cheaper. Anyhow, the Telestial site has good information. One caveat with Hop Abroad.The number you get is a Monaco number. So anyone calling you must call Monaco. HOWEVER, with 1010987 charges of 3 cents a minute to Western Europe, its probably cheaper than most people's domestic long distance. So anyone calling me just dials 1010987 011 etc. Works very well.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:

I actually forward my Verizon phone to my Tmobile phone, then forward my Tmobile to my prepaid SIM. It seems that to roam in Europe is considerably more expensive than to call Europe and when it is forwarded to a European number it counts as a call on my Tmobile account to Europe rather than international roaming in Europe. Some people dont want to deal with that though. And it gets complicated (at least to me) if you are getting/sending a lot of SMS messages since those dont seem to forward.</font>

Any reason you would not forward your Tmobile phone to the Verizon landline and then have the landline forward everything to your prepaid international number?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:

I actually forward my Verizon phone to my Tmobile phone, then forward my Tmobile to my prepaid SIM. It seems that to roam in Europe is considerably more expensive than to call Europe and when it is forwarded to a European number it counts as a call on my Tmobile account to Europe rather than international roaming in Europe. Some people dont want to deal with that though. And it gets complicated (at least to me) if you are getting/sending a lot of SMS messages since those dont seem to forward.</font>

To be honest... greedy cell phone networks are the reason this still occurs... There is NO technical reason that prevents International roaming to be aprox the wholesale intl dial rate to the roaming country + 25% for the other network to get a cut.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GUWonder:
Any reason you would not forward your Tmobile phone to the Verizon landline and then have the landline forward everything to your prepaid international number?</font>


Opps, I wasnt clear. It is a Verizon cell phone, not land line. I think the Tmobile international rate is cheaper than the Verizon cell or for that matter my land line. Another reason is that once abroad, I cant change the forwarding readily on the Verizon if I need to for some reason. At least with my phone/account on Tmobile I can change the forwarding from anywhere as long as that SIM is in the handset.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickP 1K:
To be honest... greedy cell phone networks are the reason this still occurs... There is NO technical reason that prevents International roaming to be aprox the wholesale intl dial rate to the roaming country + 25% for the other network to get a cut.</font>

Yes. Although it may be more stupid than greedy. If it were 25% more than the international rate I would probably just pay it rather than mess with the multiple SIMS. Then they would get all of my international business, at a lower cost per minute, rather than virtually none of my international business at higher cost per minute.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Vulcan:
Go to www.telestial.com (http://www.telestial.com) and look at the Hop Abroad SIM. After initial purchase it allows access to 70+ countries at 95 cents outgoing and 35 cents incomming. If you will be in one country for a while, local sims are far cheaper. Anyhow, the Telestial site has good information. One caveat with Hop Abroad.The number you get is a Monaco number. So anyone calling you must call Monaco. HOWEVER, with 1010987 charges of 3 cents a minute to Western Europe, its probably cheaper than most people's domestic long distance. So anyone calling me just dials 1010987 011 etc. Works very well.</font>


Um I see a couple of major problems with this. One is that the initial card is $99 for $15 worth of credit. That means that you are paying about $5 PER minute for the first 15 to 18 minutes of use. That is downright ridiculous. Secondly, even after that, it lists the cost at $0.95 per minute outgoing and $0.35 minute incoming but you actually have to pay $120 for a $100 credit, so the actual costs are 20% more. For virtually all of Western Europe at least, you only pay $0.99 per minute for outgoing calls. Hence this is actually more expensive than roaming for outgoing calls in Western Europe. It would save some money on incoming calls while in Europe although people calling you would have to make an international call. If you forwarded to this number from your number, you would pay for the international call on your line, plus pay about $0.42 per minute on the Telestra card, which probably comes out to about the same as roaming. The way I described, where I forward to a Virgin Mobile card, I pay the international call rate on the forwarded call (exactly the same as if with the Telestra card) but I dont pay on the Virgin Mobile card so it is $0.42 cheaper per minute on incoming calls. And Virgin is about 20p per minute on outgoing, about 75% less then the Telestra card. Ack.

It might be useful in countries with higher rates than Europe however, since it seems to be a flat rate anywhere in the world.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickP 1K:
To be honest... greedy cell phone networks are the reason this still occurs... There is NO technical reason that prevents International roaming to be aprox the wholesale intl dial rate to the roaming country + 25% for the other network to get a cut.</font>

Huh? It costs millions to build, maintain and operate the international HLR/VLR systems and the OSS behind it. Not to mention all those interconntects. Not to mention the settlement systems. That's why you pay extra to roam internationally. Now it may not need to be a lot extra, but the telcos want to make a profit like anyone else.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stimpy:
Huh? It costs millions to build, maintain and operate the international HLR/VLR systems and the OSS behind it. Not to mention all those interconntects. Not to mention the settlement systems. That's why you pay extra to roam internationally. Now it may not need to be a lot extra, but the telcos want to make a profit like anyone else.</font>

Yes, but the current profits are extreme. They need billing kit in place for PSTN/ISDN connections as well, if they can sell NL-US for €0.01 a minute then I'm still amazed they get away with €2.40 a minute for a cellphone call to the same number...

I wasn't referring to customer billing, rather the labor intensive settlement systems between operators. But the capital costs for the international roaming systems (which include IN) and interconnects are the bulk of it. Those are extra costs solely to support global roaming. And how many people roam between countries? A very small percentage of the total wireless users for a given operator. That's why we all have to pay a hefty bill when we roam. If more people roamed, the costs would go down. I don't think the charges are obscene when you add up all the numbers.

I have a US toll-free number that I can program very easily on the Internet to ring through to any phone number in the world, mobile or fixed, at very reasonable rates. As I travel around I simply set up my own computer (or go to an internet shop) and change the ring-through number to a local GSM card, the place I am staying, or whatever is most convenient. This system only works for receiving calls. For making calls I use the company’s callback service to the same number or, from some countries, their local toll-free access, also very cheap.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stimpy:
I wasn't referring to customer billing, rather the labor intensive settlement systems between operators. But the capital costs for the international roaming systems (which include IN) and interconnects are the bulk of it. Those are extra costs solely to support global roaming. And how many people roam between countries? A very small percentage of the total wireless users for a given operator. That's why we all have to pay a hefty bill when we roam. If more people roamed, the costs would go down. I don't think the charges are obscene when you add up all the numbers.</font>

Well, the EU doesn't agree with you, which is why they raided most operators last year and are under investigation for price fixing. Initial reports claim the EU will clamp down on the rediculous prices some operators charge. The entire clearinghouse system is pretty simple, it's all computers and at the end of a cycle a telco either receives money or gets a bill, that the operator decides to multiply that by 10 and pass it on to the customer is where IMHO they are making a massive mistake. But wireless operators are pretty much scumbags anyway, take Europe for example where my telco still charges me €0.14 per SMS message sent, a 160 character message...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stimpy:
Huh? It costs millions to build, maintain and operate the international HLR/VLR systems and the OSS behind it. Not to mention all those interconntects. Not to mention the settlement systems. That's why you pay extra to roam internationally. Now it may not need to be a lot extra, but the telcos want to make a profit like anyone else.</font>

It costs NO more than the costs incurred to affect billing systems for other services (like data)... There is MAJOR gouging on international roaming. I'm not expecting operators to go poor on this even if they dropped roaming rates 70%.

You guys seem to be focused on billing which is the least of the issues, even though it is different than domestic for reasons including regulatory requirements. Also, are you aware of how much telcos have to pay in clearinghouse fees? I know it used to be a lot back when I was involved. However, you're not paying attention to the international HLR/VLR systems which cost a fortune, nor are you considering all the interconnects and the OAM&P that is involved. These items cost big bucks and as I said earlier, there aren't enough of us using it to make it cheap.

I'm confident that the EU will not crack down on these fees in any significant manner since they are justified. It's just a political pose to answer the people complaining.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stimpy:
You guys seem to be focused on billing which is the least of the issues, even though it is different than domestic for reasons including regulatory requirements. Also, are you aware of how much telcos have to pay in clearinghouse fees? I know it used to be a lot back when I was involved. However, you're not paying attention to the international HLR/VLR systems which cost a fortune, nor are you considering all the interconnects and the OAM&P that is involved. These items cost big bucks and as I said earlier, there aren't enough of us using it to make it cheap.

I'm confident that the EU will not crack down on these fees in any significant manner since they are justified. It's just a political pose to answer the people complaining. </font>

Stimpy... They pay verry little now - trust me... I deal with data and voice interchange billing for services we are developing that are cross networks.. Most networks are able to bypass clearinhouses as they now use limited VOIP between their networks. I do NOT blame the EU to look into this. There is ZERO excuse why a user on Vodafone UK should be paying the rate they do when roaming on Vodafone Germany... They don't even use a clearinghouse.

Bottom line is costs have gone done dramatically for intl roaming - the costs to the user has not dropped to that same proportion

OK, it's good to hear they are using IP to interconnect now. But who paid for that system? Who pays for the international roaming systems that need to be maintained and operated? Who pays for all the TDM interconnects that are still in use? It's great that they are moving to more economical systems, but both the old and new systems have to be depreciated and paid for before they can lower rates.

Guys, I'm just pushing back since I've worked for a telco and I've seen the massive costs involved. Those costs are generally offset by massive usage. But there isn't massive usage in international roaming. That's why the roaming rates are high.