Travel Technology - totally confused by gsm 850/900/1800/1900

Hi all,

I've been trying to figure out what kind of gsm phone will allow me to receive calls both here in the US and when I travel, say to Australia or Europe.

When I was looking into this a few months ago, it was straightforward: get a phone that has 900/1800/1900 bands. Other countries use 900/1800 and the US uses 1900.

But now there's this new 850 ridiculousness going on here. I can't figure out whether a phone that only has 850/1800/1900 will work in Europe for example? Is it ok as long as *one* of the bands match the country you're going to?

Help?

If you stick with an 900/1800/1900 GSM (commonly called a Tri-band) phone, and you'll be happy pretty much everywhere except for Japan, South Korea, and parts of the Carribean.

More info on how cell phones work here: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone.htm

Compatibility on GSM network coverage here: http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 09-29-2003).]

I say get a 900/1900/1900 for when you are out of the coutnry, and get a 850/1900/TDMA/maybe analog phone for when you are in the United States. The coverage here on GSM even in highly populated areas like New York is not great, so having the phone be able to fall back on TDMA is a really good thing, then when you leave the country just take the SIM from one phone ot the other.

I don't believe GSM coverage is good enough in this country to depend on it and only it to make calls, and don't believe there is a four GSM band phone that also offers TDMA, so right now you can't have one device cover everything.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cordelli:
I say get a 900/1900/1900 for when you are out of the coutnry, and get a 850/1900/TDMA/maybe analog phone for when you are in the United States. The coverage here on GSM even in highly populated areas like New York is not great, so having the phone be able to fall back on TDMA is a really good thing, then when you leave the country just take the SIM from one phone ot the other.

I don't believe GSM coverage is good enough in this country to depend on it and only it to make calls, and don't believe there is a four GSM band phone that also offers TDMA, so right now you can't have one device cover everything.</font>

900, 1800, 1900 will work pretty much everywhere. Some areas of Europe you can get by on only one of the two European frequencies but you are better off with both. Motorola is coming out soon with a quad band GSM phone soon. It will have the triband "world phone" frequencies plus 850. It will be pretty pricey but lots of nice features. Contrary to the above opinion I would not get a TDMA/GSM phone as a backup here in the states. I have a friend that has one and he had to borrow my GSM only phone a lot to make calls in the New York/DC areas. Around big cities in the states GSM is fine if you get a phone with good radio performance (not all GSM phones do perform well). If you are going to be away from cities in the US a lot get Verizon. In Europe it is all GSM and the coverage is great. I was making calls from the middle of a moor in England.

The new Handspring Treo 600 will also be quad band, and you get a PDA and Blackberry like service with Goodlink, if you want it. Of course, I'm sure it will be premium priced. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?id=343

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
900, 1800, 1900 will work pretty much everywhere. Some areas of Europe you can get by on only one of the two European frequencies but you are better off with both. Motorola is coming out soon with a quad band GSM phone soon. It will have the triband "world phone" frequencies plus 850. It will be pretty pricey but lots of nice features. Contrary to the above opinion I would not get a TDMA/GSM phone as a backup here in the states. I have a friend that has one and he had to borrow my GSM only phone a lot to make calls in the New York/DC areas. Around big cities in the states GSM is fine if you get a phone with good radio performance (not all GSM phones do perform well). If you are going to be away from cities in the US a lot get Verizon. In Europe it is all GSM and the coverage is great. I was making calls from the middle of a moor in England.

</font>

If he has a GSM phone, why would he have to borrow a GSM phone to make calls? What advantage is he getting from your GSM phone that isn't on his, unless his phone has really lousy coverage?

I have a GSM/TMDA/Analog phone, and besides the subways of New York, I have yet to be in an area that I couldn't make a call from. If I was GSM only there would be many areas I couldn't have used, as about half my calls are TMDA with it.

I don't believe a GSM only phone has the coverage it needs to be useable in the states yet unless you stay in very limited areas.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cordelli:
If he has a GSM phone, why would he have to borrow a GSM phone to make calls? What advantage is he getting from your GSM phone that isn't on his, unless his phone has really lousy coverage?

I have a GSM/TMDA/Analog phone, and besides the subways of New York, I have yet to be in an area that I couldn't make a call from. If I was GSM only there would be many areas I couldn't have used, as about half my calls are TMDA with it.

I don't believe a GSM only phone has the coverage it needs to be useable in the states yet unless you stay in very limited areas.</font>

Sorry, I wasnt clear. He has the phone that I think you are refering to. A Siemens phone with GSM/TDMA service from ATT. He had no service on either band in areas where I had TMobile GSM coverage. His phone wasnt roaming on the TMobile GSM coverage that was available.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
Sorry, I wasnt clear. He has the phone that I think you are refering to. A Siemens phone with GSM/TDMA service from ATT. He had no service on either band in areas where I had TMobile GSM coverage. His phone wasnt roaming on the TMobile GSM coverage that was available. </font>

That makes much more sense.

thanks for these replies, they're very helpful -- but the most nagging question for me right now is whether a 850/1800/1900 phone will work in Australia? the reason I ask is because the 850 version of some phones are available for much cheaper than the 900 versions. And if I can get a phone that's designed to work here, yet can work overseas too, that's what I'd prefer?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TA:
thanks for these replies, they're very helpful -- but the most nagging question for me right now is whether a 850/1800/1900 phone will work in Australia? the reason I ask is because the 850 version of some phones are available for much cheaper than the 900 versions. And if I can get a phone that's designed to work here, yet can work overseas too, that's what I'd prefer? </font>

Vodafone and Optus have SOME GSM1800 coverage but the majority of the network is GSM900. So, your 850/1800/1900 phone won't work there except in the major cities where there might be a few GSM1800 cells.

Telstra has (by far) the biggest coverage in Australia - 96% of population. Even though Optus and Vodafone might be within a % or 2 in population coverage, the population density in some areas of Australia is very low.

Most Telstra base stations are 900/1800 GSM compatible.

Telstra also has a network here with better coverage than GSM, being CDMA (800 MHz). If you have a US CDMA 'phone, it might be worth checking if your provider has roaming with Telstra.

More info here: http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/networks/coverage/maps.cfm

Quadband phones are a bit thin on the ground at the moment but I strongly recommend one. Just six months ago, 850Mhz coverage did not exist in the US, and now, more than a third of the country has either a combination of 850/1900Mhz GSM coverage or exclusively 850Mhz coverage. 850, as with 900Mhz offers much better building penetration and rural coverage. If your option is an 850/1900 phone for usage in the US and a 900/1800/1900 phone for usage abroad, I would go that route. You can find VERY inexpensive dual/tri-band GSM phones for use in the rest of the world... I wouldn't forego 900Mhz coverage.

Nowhere in Australia has 1800MHz only GSM service. The basic coverage is 900Mhz and some areas have both. I understand Europe to be similar. The 1800Mhz band was added to increase capacity and not to operate on its own.

Mrs NM uses my old 900Mhz only GSM phone and the coverage is as good as any dual band in Australia. However, in times of heavy network congestion (say at a football grand final or airport), a single band 900MHz phone is more likely to get a "service unavailable" response. This response is due to cell congestion and not a lack of coverage.

My current phone is a Nokia 8890 whoch technically is only dual band, being 900/1900MHz. I get excellent coverage with Optus and although only operating at 900Mhz in Australia (same as the older single band phones), I rarely experience service problems due to congestion.

It is considered extremely poor form for a carrier to drop a call when you move into a new cell because that cell is congested, and they do all they can to avoid such a situation. It is better to report "service unavailable" for new calls and retain some spare capacity for cell roamers rather than drop a call during cell hand-off. However, it does happen!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NM:
Nowhere in Australia has 1800MHz only GSM service. The basic coverage is 900Mhz and some areas have both. I understand Europe to be similar. The 1800Mhz band was added to increase capacity and not to operate on its own.

Mrs NM uses my old 900Mhz only GSM phone and the coverage is as good as any dual band in Australia. However, in times of heavy network congestion (say at a football grand final or airport), a single band 900MHz phone is more likely to get a "service unavailable" response. This response is due to cell congestion and not a lack of coverage.

My current phone is a Nokia 8890 whoch technically is only dual band, being 900/1900MHz. I get excellent coverage with Optus and although only operating at 900Mhz in Australia (same as the older single band phones), I rarely experience service problems due to congestion.

It is considered extremely poor form for a carrier to drop a call when you move into a new cell because that cell is congested, and they do all they can to avoid such a situation. It is better to report "service unavailable" for new calls and retain some spare capacity for cell roamers rather than drop a call during cell hand-off. However, it does happen!</font>

Errr... OneTel had a GSM1800 license... had being the key word. You know what happened to them http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Bottom line:

GSM900: Normally first licensed spectrum block in Europe, Asia, Africa and Middle East

GSM1800: Secondary block in above regions. Primary block in Brazil. Also used as additional spectrum by GSM900 networks.

GSM 1900: Was Primary spectrum block for the America's (except Brazil and others like Suriname, Venezuala, French Caribbean that adopted GSM900 earlier)

GSM 850: Secondary spectrum block for the America's. Mainly defined to allow TDMA networks to overlay or replace their licensed spectrum with a GSM overlay. (such GSM850 overlay on Rural US operators also take a similar CDMA overlay to accept all roaming traffic).

GSM 450: Was spec'd to replace NMT/Nordic Mobile Telephone, which is spec'd to go greater distances. Mainly for rural scandinavian areas. So far still a work in progress, no new info.

WCDMA: In it's current form is 2100MHz. 3G networks can run in any spectrum block. Example ATTWS is building test coverage in certain US cities via an agreement with NTT DoCoMo for UMTS1900

thanks for your help, everyone -- I just bought a T610 and will see how it goes!