JetBlue TrueBlue - Who hates seeing Jetblue expanding hurting others? I do!

I have never flown Jetblue in my life because I live in Hawaii and I am still attatched with major carriers/some national carriers. One day I would fly Jetblue but I probably would stick with other airlines. Everytime I see them expanding it makes me unhappy that they are killing other airlines. Who else in here hates it?

Yes, this free market capitalism stuff is horrible when it comes to airlines, JetBlue should just go away. So should Southwest, for that matter, or any other airline that challenges the majors that are losing money.

I am constantly surprised by the amount of emotion that is expressed in the topics of this board: "I hate JetBlue" - "Who else hates JetBlue?".

An airline comes along and does well, lowering fares on many of the routes that it enters (IAD-OAK in my case), and people react negatively.

I've flown JetBlue, and had very enjoyable experiences. When they're more expensive, I fly UA, which usually matches JetBlue's fares. Many people like them, others do not.

You don't have to fly JetBlue, you don't even have to like JetBlue, but to decide you're going to "hate" an airline simply because it is successful seems a little unusual.

[This message has been edited by the wide chair (edited 07-06-2003).]

No problem for me as I love free enterprise! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Danski:
Yes, this free market capitalism stuff is horrible when it comes to airlines, JetBlue should just go away. So should Southwest, for that matter, or any other airline that challenges the majors that are losing money.

</font>

Obviously the original poster never had the pleasure of flying the pre-1991 Aeroflot, or Interflug, as I did.

But don't worry, there's still an airline that'll let you experience the joys of a planned economy:

http://www.angelfire.com/pokemon2/aerokimchi/koryo_e.html

I don't hate jetBlue.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Danski:
You don't have to fly JetBlue, you don't even have to like JetBlue, but to decide you're going to "hate" an airline simply because it is successful seems a little unusual.</font>

A little unusual? Try incredibly irrational as well.

Ummmm, Ummmmm, So crummy run airlines that don't listen to their customers(fill in AA,UA,DL,CO, etc) need to be encouraged???

I think the problem is that many of us see the LCCs as responsible for the decline of service standards on our preferred carriers. We recognize that the public has spoken and wants low fares and is willing to put-up with few frills in return. Some of us want to fly first class and/or have many frills and are willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, we are in the minority and no carrier is looking to serve our needs. This, of course, makes perfect sense from a business perspective, but can leave people irritated. However irrational, some will blame the LCCs for this.

JetBlue entering my home market of ALB (hopefully will happen w/the 100 RJ order) would make me happier than ever!

So what if they come in and other airlines fail b/c of poor customer service, poor policies, and higher fares. Welcome to America people!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Go JetBlue!
Chris

Diehard Ford (and GM) fans (and shareholders) probably blame all those darn import brands for their distress also.

Everyone says they like competition, problem is that nobody seems to like the carnage that often results. Competition produces real winners and real losers, and right now, the old-style full service airlines are having trouble staying in the "winners" column. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Well one point that was missed is that Jet Blue seems to fill voids. There was no remaining jet service from ROC to NYC, just props. We now have four round trip jets each day.

It wasn't Jet Blue chasing out the big boys, it was Jet Blue doing the job that the big boys aren't doing.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PresRDC:
I think the problem is that many of us see the LCCs as responsible for the decline of service standards on our preferred carriers. We recognize that the public has spoken and wants low fares and is willing to put-up with few frills in return. Some of us want to fly first class and/or have many frills and are willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, we are in the minority and no carrier is looking to serve our needs. This, of course, makes perfect sense from a business perspective, but can leave people irritated. However irrational, some will blame the LCCs for this.
</font>

Margins got rid of service, not the LCC's.

NOT a single North American Major carrier has a REAL reason to pay for their extra costs over a well run LCC. Come on, unediable food, bad attitude FA's, ops people who are brain dead... etc

We don't have an "SQ" like carrier flying domestic in the US and I don't think we ever will. cuz, when push comes to shove the more consistent lower fare wins (B6 is NOT always the cheapest, AA and other have matched or beaten their fares, but they don't ever do it on a systemwide basis)

[This message has been edited by NickP 1K (edited 07-09-2003).]

Well I think what it comes down to is value, take American for example, assuming that American Airline's tickets is the same as jetBlue's tickets on similar route (ie/ SFO, OAK, or SJC to EWR, JFK, or LGA), what would you rather have...

DirecTV
Gourmet Snacks
Friendly Service
Leather Seats
34" seat pitch (in the back of the plane starting in September)

or

Bistro Meals that are similar to but worst than JetBlue's snackpacks
Cloth seats that are to thin that you can feel the metal under the seat cushion
Audio entertainment and preselected movies
31" to 32" seat pitch (on their 757s and other aircrafts)
Option to upgrade to first class where the service is similar to coach a few years back.

Oh, I agree. I think it's horrible the way the jetBlue people try to deceive me by respecting me, by being courteous and friendly, by giving me a comfortable seat on a new plane with an array of tasty snacks for a reasonable fare, and worst of all: that darned DirectTV to mislead me into forgetting how awfully long a transcon can be. I feel bad that the Big Boys are being hurt by this. It's not their fault that they are rude, provide ever-diminishing "service", nickel and dime us to death, jerk us around at every opportunity, and screw with our FF loyalty programs. They can't help it!

------------------
Missing the Wings of Man, Whisperliners, and the overall civility in air travel!

speaking of other airlines, what is up with American Airlines and their Bistro "Meals". I think they should of just call it a snack pack like what jetBlue does. The like but 3 food item into a oversize bag and make it look all big.

As for big airlines charging for food, that was basically what set them apart from all the low fare no frill airlines...

Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between American/United and jetBlue/Southwest? Aside from American and United having way higher walk up fares and horrible service.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkaterJasp:
Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between American/United and jetBlue/Southwest? Aside from American and United having way higher walk up fares and horrible service.</font>

There are three noticeable differences:

(1) Many more desinations overall (exponenially increased when you factor in the global alliances) and international service which is totally absent with B6 and WN;

(2) Primarily because of #1, superior frequent flier award options with miles/segments that don't expire every 12 months (admittedly, however, the low cost carrier's offer more frequent and less restricted redemption opportunities); and

(3) A first and/or business class product that can be accessed by purchase or upgrade (with noticeably declining service on domestic routes, mind you).

That said, if and when B6 enters the Texas market, I will have no qualms about giving them my travel dollar. From what I have read and heard, they offer a very nice product.

[This message has been edited by cAAl (edited 07-11-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cAAl:
There are three noticeable differences:

(1) Many more desinations overall (exponenially increased when you factor in the global alliances) and international service which is totally absent with B6 and WN;

(2) Primarily because of #1, superior frequent flier award options with miles/segments that don't expire every 12 months (admittedly, however, the low cost carrier's offer more frequent and less restricted redemption opportunities); and

(3) A first and/or business class product that can be accessed by purchase or upgrade (with noticeably declining service on domestic routes, mind you).

That said, if and when B6 enters the Texas market, I will have no qualms about giving them my travel dollar. From what I have read and heard, they offer a very nice product.

[This message has been edited by cAAl (edited 07-11-2003).]</font>


All at a $2,000 walk up fare on an RJ

[This message has been edited by MrMan (edited 07-14-2003).]

I've never flown JetBlue. I would like to, but the opportunity hasn't presented itself.

BUT, last night, my neighbors decided they want to take their daughter to Disney World the first week of November. Well, that happens to be "NJ Week" in Orlando. The schools are closed for 2-3 days and everyone packs up the kids & goes on vacation.

Well, I checked all of the majors out of EWR & PHL - no dice for nonstops. The least expensive flight on Continental was $600 PER PERSON for their dates. Less expensive flights on CO & other carriers were 1 stops, which are ridiculous for a 2 hour flight.

So, I suggested that they drive 20-30 minutes longer & take JetBlue out of JFK. Price for the tickets - $260 each on the flights that they preferred. We could have gone cheaper.

So, even though they preferred EWR and were willing to do AA from LGA (at the worst) the best price & flight times were Jet Blue.

I only wish that they would fly from EWR so that CO wouldn't own the market.

Mary

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:

So, I suggested that they drive 20-30 minutes longer & take JetBlue out of JFK. Price for the tickets - $260 each on the flights that they preferred. We could have gone cheaper.
</font>

Its alot better than drving 20 to 30 days longer and fly Southwest out of ISP. heh. but you have to ask your self, if you were to save a couple of hundred of dollars per person for a family, imagine what you can get for that money saved. It just means more money to spend in Florida or maybe even add on a 3 nights cruise or something.

That's not exactly a fair comparison.

You'd probably still have the nice 'more room throughout coach' seat pitch on an AA transcon, along with somewhat decent food. If you got an international plane on the transcon, you would have a selection of seat-back movies.

Also, if you flew just this route just three times a year, you would have enough miles for an AA domestic flight in two year, and an international flight in 4 years. With JetBlue you would have nothing. (they would expire before you could redeem)

Also, with AA you may get a wide-body aircraft, while with JetBlue, you'd also be in a narrowbody.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkaterJasp:
Well I think what it comes down to is value, take American for example, assuming that American Airline's tickets is the same as jetBlue's tickets on similar route (ie/ SFO, OAK, or SJC to EWR, JFK, or LGA), what would you rather have...

DirecTV
Gourmet Snacks
Friendly Service
Leather Seats
34" seat pitch (in the back of the plane starting in September)

or

Bistro Meals that are similar to but worst than JetBlue's snackpacks
Cloth seats that are to thin that you can feel the metal under the seat cushion
Audio entertainment and preselected movies
31" to 32" seat pitch (on their 757s and other aircrafts)
Option to upgrade to first class where the service is similar to coach a few years back.</font>

What about this, you never know what your getting when you fly on American (except what kind of plane your getting but features on their planes are different from plane to plane of the same model cause you have ex TWA planes in the fleet too with less features) and you know what your getting when you fly jetBlue (and sometime get alittle bit more).

Also it is a fair comparison because on a 5 hour flight, I don't really care if its a narrow or wide body jet. I dont really care much for First Class on American since I get more room on jetBlue in rows 11 and 12 and BETTER service. Speaking of rows 11 and 12... Most exit row seats on American don't recline while all seats can recline on jetBlue except some rows during take off and landing.

As for TrueBlue, I already got a free ticket and will be using it on a flight between Oakland and Puerto Rico. If I had flown American the same amount of time I would just be coming close to around 24000 miles (I even included miles earn from using my AAdvantage Citi Card, bonus miles from booking online, one time online check in bonus miles, and the 500 min. miles earn). And last time I checked, I need 30,000 miles on for a free ticket to San Juan.

Also with AAdvantage, it is near impossible to get a award ticket for the travel dates you want and theres soo many more fees ontop of the basic tax and airport fees.

Oh yeah and not to forget...
Because I never know when exactly when I want to return from my trip, I always buy my ticket one way, try doing that on American cheaply and take advantage of promo fares. (ok, yes I know you can do that now out of SJC).

And finally,
American Airlines does not have Terra Blue Patato Chips.

I use to and still fly American, just as jetBlue expands, I tend to start flying jetBlue instead of American on what ever routes jetBlue flies and price of the ticket isn't a factor especailly on the CA to NY markets.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by L Dude 7:
That's not exactly a fair comparison.

You'd probably still have the nice 'more room throughout coach' seat pitch on an AA transcon, along with somewhat decent food. If you got an international plane on the transcon, you would have a selection of seat-back movies.

Also, if you flew just this route just three times a year, you would have enough miles for an AA domestic flight in two year, and an international flight in 4 years. With JetBlue you would have nothing. (they would expire before you could redeem)

Also, with AA you may get a wide-body aircraft, while with JetBlue, you'd also be in a narrowbody.

</font>



[This message has been edited by SkaterJasp (edited 07-16-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by L Dude 7:
That's not exactly a fair comparison.

You'd probably still have the nice 'more room throughout coach' seat pitch on an AA transcon, along with somewhat decent food. If you got an international plane on the transcon, you would have a selection of seat-back movies. </font>

The trans-con routes in which AA competes with B6 are mostly operated with 757's so there goes your MRTC.
The only AA plane with seatback video is the 777 and it doesn't serve any transcon I can think of, except once daily MIA-LAX.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:
I only wish that they would fly from EWR so that CO wouldn't own the market.</font>

Wouldn't that be great? But JetBlue chooses airports based on low fees and EWR is hardly that.

I had no idea that the airport fees were so high.

Trying to get myself to Florida for a long weekend has become an incredibly expensive proposition. I can fly to SFO or LAX for less. JFK, which we used to live 15 minutes from, has now become a real option.

Delta previously had a decent selection of flight, but no more.

How do we lobby JetBlue to go to EWR http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif?

Mary

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:
How do we lobby JetBlue to go to EWR http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif?

Mary</font>

How about Trenton or Atlantic City instead. Anything but JFK, 20 miles from the house as the crow flies, and a 2-3 hour drive. UGHHH

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:
How do we lobby JetBlue to go to EWR http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif?

Mary</font>

Somehow convince the airport to lower their fees. Somehow I'm sure that CO is so in bed with the Port Authority that such an idea won't even cross their minds. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Although I can't speak for American, with United you know exactly what you're getting (with the exception of 737's) and almost all of their planes have Economy Plus (35") plus they operate more widebodies domestically than any other airline.

Widebodies are more comfortable all around, so saying that you don't care about widebodies is like saying you don't care about seat pitch.

As for TrueBlue, you may have earned a free ticket if your credits didn't expire but to where? With United I can book travel anywhere United, US Airways, Delta or any Star Alliance member flies. I have a lot more award choice options. OTOH, its probably a lot harder to get the award seats.

I still think the majors offer a better experience overall, but I will say that in general JetBlue is more competitive because of their low price structure.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkaterJasp:
What about this, you never know what your getting when you fly on American (except what kind of plane your getting but features on their planes are different from plane to plane of the same model cause you have ex TWA planes in the fleet too with less features) and you know what your getting when you fly jetBlue (and sometime get alittle bit more).

Also it is a fair comparison because on a 5 hour flight, I don't really care if its a narrow or wide body jet. I dont really care much for First Class on American since I get more room on jetBlue in rows 11 and 12 and BETTER service. Speaking of rows 11 and 12... Most exit row seats on American don't recline while all seats can recline on jetBlue except some rows during take off and landing.

As for TrueBlue, I already got a free ticket and will be using it on a flight between Oakland and Puerto Rico. If I had flown American the same amount of time I would just be coming close to around 24000 miles (I even included miles earn from using my AAdvantage Citi Card, bonus miles from booking online, one time online check in bonus miles, and the 500 min. miles earn). And last time I checked, I need 30,000 miles on for a free ticket to San Juan.

Also with AAdvantage, it is near impossible to get a award ticket for the travel dates you want and theres soo many more fees ontop of the basic tax and airport fees.

Oh yeah and not to forget...
Because I never know when exactly when I want to return from my trip, I always buy my ticket one way, try doing that on American cheaply and take advantage of promo fares. (ok, yes I know you can do that now out of SJC).

And finally,
American Airlines does not have Terra Blue Patato Chips.

I use to and still fly American, just as jetBlue expands, I tend to start flying jetBlue instead of American on what ever routes jetBlue flies and price of the ticket isn't a factor especailly on the CA to NY markets.



[This message has been edited by SkaterJasp (edited 07-16-2003).]</font>

Economy Plus: Unless if they changed their policy, I do not qualify to reserve a seat in that part of their plane in advance unless if I buy a full fare ticket so I don't really care about that feature that much.

Wide Body Aircraft: I said I don't really care on domestic flights or short flights but to expand on that, i have yet to notice anything different between the two aside from the cabin being wider and taller. On a typical 5 hours flight, I spent most of it in my seat and i have yet to notice a difference between the seat width in a A320 and a wide body aircraft. However, I do care if its a wide body or not on really long flight such as a transpacific flight because I like the room to walk around if I wanted to because of the wider alse and all that.

TrueBlue's award are good on any flight that jetBlue operates, in my case, Oakland, CA to San Juan, PR. I don't know how many miles is needed on United but I can say that I would still be no where near that type of award on American.

To me, I think jetBlue offers a way better experience than any other airlines for domestic flights, however, when it comes to international flights, I'd have to say most carriers based out of other country offers a better product. As for the reason behind why I never fly united, I stop flying them years before jetBlue even got started because the last few UAL flights i've been on were the worst flight I had ever experience and back then I switched over to AA and TWA. But now, its all jetBlue just because they offer a better experience than AA. Also when TWA was still around, I tend to pick them over jetBlue just because I was able to score first class tickets easier.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JY4D:
Although I can't speak for American, with United you know exactly what you're getting (with the exception of 737's) and almost all of their planes have Economy Plus (35") plus they operate more widebodies domestically than any other airline.

Widebodies are more comfortable all around, so saying that you don't care about widebodies is like saying you don't care about seat pitch.

As for TrueBlue, you may have earned a free ticket if your credits didn't expire but to where? With United I can book travel anywhere United, US Airways, Delta or any Star Alliance member flies. I have a lot more award choice options. OTOH, its probably a lot harder to get the award seats.

I still think the majors offer a better experience overall, but I will say that in general JetBlue is more competitive because of their low price structure.

Originally posted by SkaterJasp:
What about this, you never know what your getting when you fly on American (except what kind of plane your getting but features on their planes are different from plane to plane of the same model cause you have ex TWA planes in the fleet too with less features) and you know what your getting when you fly jetBlue (and sometime get alittle bit more).

Also it is a fair comparison because on a 5 hour flight, I don't really care if its a narrow or wide body jet. I dont really care much for First Class on American since I get more room on jetBlue in rows 11 and 12 and BETTER service. Speaking of rows 11 and 12... Most exit row seats on American don't recline while all seats can recline on jetBlue except some rows during take off and landing.

As for TrueBlue, I already got a free ticket and will be using it on a flight between Oakland and Puerto Rico. If I had flown American the same amount of time I would just be coming close to around 24000 miles (I even included miles earn from using my AAdvantage Citi Card, bonus miles from booking online, one time online check in bonus miles, and the 500 min. miles earn). And last time I checked, I need 30,000 miles on for a free ticket to San Juan.

Also with AAdvantage, it is near impossible to get a award ticket for the travel dates you want and theres soo many more fees ontop of the basic tax and airport fees.

Oh yeah and not to forget...
Because I never know when exactly when I want to return from my trip, I always buy my ticket one way, try doing that on American cheaply and take advantage of promo fares. (ok, yes I know you can do that now out of SJC).

And finally,
American Airlines does not have Terra Blue Patato Chips.

I use to and still fly American, just as jetBlue expands, I tend to start flying jetBlue instead of American on what ever routes jetBlue flies and price of the ticket isn't a factor especailly on the CA to NY markets.



[This message has been edited by SkaterJasp (edited 07-16-2003).]</font>

I like B6 very much.

It's because of them that United has much lower fares JFK/LAX/ONT...saving me lots of $$$. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif The cheapest I've flown is $251 RT; and I've received upgrades to C.
By the way, JFK/LAX is much more expensive,; and 2 x 500 miles less.

Disclaimer: I've flown JetBlue several times JFK/BUF and they do a nice job.

Dan

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chrislacey:
JetBlue entering my home market of ALB (hopefully will happen w/the 100 RJ order) would make me happier than ever!

So what if they come in and other airlines fail b/c of poor customer service, poor policies, and higher fares. Welcome to America people!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Go JetBlue!
Chris</font>

I find NW to serve my needs well at ALB. Reasonable most of the time as well. Have fun going down to Kennedy!!!!

I haven't had the opportunity to fly B6, but I have flown WN quite a few times. From what I read, B6 might be quite a bit better. I'd love to experience DirecTV. I keep hoping to fly F9 (Frontier) with their DirecTV service, but every time I book them, I seem to get the 737 instead of the A318/A319!

There is no doubt that when B6 or WN enters a market, the cost of flying in and out of that market decreases. Yes, that is tough on the majors. If you are paying for the ticket on your own dime, I would assume that you would love to see a decrease in costs. If your company is paying for the flight, you still *should* be happier, but if $100-$200 doesn't mean much to your company, then maybe not.

The fact that the LCC's are making money while the majors are losing money is a testomony to what *most* of the public wants. Sure, everyone wants first class seats and service at LCC prices. But, when presented with the trade-off, it appears that more people value price over service. Remember that 95% of the people need the best price they can get, 4% want better service and &lt;1% can afford to charter their own private jet.

I cannot think of hating JetBlue as they do not do anything I despise or passionately disapprove of. I believe they help customers get better value and show the majors that it is indeed possible to deliver more with less.

Also, Jetblue's fleet is too small to currently impact the majors. WN if any is the one that really affected the majors so far. In the future, I do believe that JetBlue will force the majors to restructure - even more than they have already done.

The majors were getting used to WN before B6 broke the stereotype of low cost carriers such as SouthWest or Ryan Air. JetBlue started with longhaul flts fairly early, assigned seating from day one, Live Satellite fed IFE, etc. etc.

Being a loyal FF family flying AA and other majors we flew B6 for the first time last year just to experience Jet Blue. It was a great experience - even before the improved legroom. The lighting and the brand new aircraft made you feel better. The legroom will only make it a better experience.

For domestic travel, where Jetblue flies I always compare with it before buying AA or UA. It keeps the majors on their toes.

I can see that Jetblue did very negatively affect the pilots at majors (pay, working conditions, etc.). On the other hand it is also offering new and upcoming pilots a chance to have a great career. The UAL 747 pilots and AA 777 ones are paying the price for better value to customers. I hope that FA and other staff at Jetblue are compensated comparably to the majors. Too soon to tell.

Jetblue is also not unionized yet - I am not sure if it is a plus or a minus. If staff are happy and satisfied and do not care for a union then it is a plus. If staff are being intimidated or "brainwashed" then that is a big minus. For now, I believe it is a plus.

Jetblue takes away the romance of first class travel - I am waiting for the Virgin Atlantics of this world to show that can be done without charging an arm and a leg.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flyhawaii:
Everytime I see them expanding it makes me unhappy that they are killing other airlines. Who else in here hates it?</font>

Not me. Ideally, B6 will force the majors to improve both their product and their pricing. (For pax, on B6 expectations=reality, on the majors, there's a gap...on DL we get an email every other month, it seems, from Icky Mascara informing us of the deletion of another bennie from the Medallion Program...always "at the request of Medallion members". Yeah. Right.)

Adapt or die.

O/W ticketing WROCKS! In Sept, I will fly an open jaw JFK-SYR, with BUF-JFK on the return. Easy and inexpensive on B6...would be a pain in the butt on the majors. And jet service b/w SYR and NYC? DL had that...once....for a month or two.

So it will be into SYR, for business, dinner at the Dinosaur and coffee at Freedom of Espresso, then off to BUF for a w/e with my buddy and his family. On a major, I'd have to pick or drive SYR-BUF and return. No thanks.

So now it's DL when I want to burn miles, or am headed overseas (*A sometimes).

Regards,

O/H

B6 business model

By a new plane, go across the steet and sell it to a leasing company for more money, use the difference to pay the bills, lease the plane back and make no payments for a while. Enjoy them while they last folks. I would hate to get the seat with the non functioning direct tv.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mywifeisincoach:
B6 business model

By a new plane, go across the steet and sell it to a leasing company for more money, use the difference to pay the bills, lease the plane back and make no payments for a while. Enjoy them while they last folks. I would hate to get the seat with the non functioning direct tv.</font>

B6 is here for the long haul... Your message makes no sense as the buy a plane, lease it back to pay less for operating costs is what the MAJOR's have been doing for years.

Not having flown JetBlue (no ord/mdw service), I don't know what to expect. As an AA loyalist, I'd fly them to see what the hype is about and if I liked it for domestic, I'd consider it in addition to AA.

Is B6 going to expand and do intl routes, or at least Canada/Mexico/Carribean?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mywifeisincoach:
I would hate to get the seat with the non functioning direct tv.</font>

Me too, I would hate to have a seat an inch wider and with more pitch than DL, CO, US, UA(non e+), or AA (757 or A300). That would be terrible.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mywifeisincoach:
B6 business model
I would hate to get the seat with the non functioning direct tv.</font>

Theres more to jetBlue than DirecTV and any one that had flown jetBlue in the past, freqent or not, can tell you that.

Of course my explanation was quite edited down, but there plan only works as long as they are buying aircraft. Southwest tried to put their numbers on the jetblue business plan, and it did not pan out. As in, they could not see how b6 was coming up with their numbers. You will see. Its all great now.

.

[This message has been edited by audio-nut (edited 09-05-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mywifeisincoach:
Of course my explanation was quite edited down, but there plan only works as long as they are buying aircraft. Southwest tried to put their numbers on the jetblue business plan, and it did not pan out. As in, they could not see how b6 was coming up with their numbers. You will see. Its all great now. </font>

Do you work for SWA?

I can't say I actually HATE any particular airline that I haven't flown, but it does worry me that we're heading towards an "all-Greyhound, all the time" world for domestic air travel in the US. I fly a mix of transcon domestic and long-haul Int'l flights and I like the fact that I can do that on one carrier and take the miles/status that I've earned and use it to make life not suck when I have to go abroad.

Those who laugh "Haha! Well, *I* don't care 'cause it's only 2 hours and I'm not going to pay anymore than I have to and you're a self-important spoiled brat to do otherwise" probably have never had to look 14 hours in a metal tube straight in the face, or if they do it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing and never having been exposed to anything different, book it with the expectation that it will suck.

My "preferred carrier" since I was a kid has been UA and I've had elite status with them for years now, something I'm loathe to give up.

What bothers me about LCCs is what bothers me about some other things on a broader scale in this country. There is getting to be less and less of a middle ground and more and more of a binary distinction where you are either stuck riding with Ma and Pa Kettle or you whistle up your private jet to take you where you need to go.

What I've found most irritating about people who fly LCCs is the disproportionate number who seem intent on telling me how much they hope all the majors fail and how much my preferred carrier sucks rather than trying to convince me why their choice is better.

This comes across much more like a bunch of demons grabbing at me trying to drag me into the pit cackling "You'll be joining us in a WN cattle call soon enough" than somebody going "Jet'Dillo, go towards the light that is B6"

JD

We'll back in the days of TWA, I flew them alot and I got my free upgrades or paid a discounted price for a upgrade to first class... But back than it was worth it because first class was really first class with personalized service, great meals, and you got everything from hot towels to fresh baked cookies. It was not what it is like now on American's First Class which they basically destroyed the first class experience on 2-Class aircrafts on domestic flights. Now its basically wider seats and more leg room... the food is the same food you get in coach, that "Bistro Meal" and you don't get personalized service, and they don't even close the curtains that seperate the 2 cabins... It got to a point where its not worth flying First Class on American. That is why I switched over to jetBlue, though it is all coach class service, I get more, or at least I feel that I get more service, better snack options, and a way better inflight entertainment. I even paid more over american's lowest price just so I can fly on jetBlue. As for international flights, jetBlue doesn't fly international so I'm not going to compare because its 2 different things. What it comes down to, for me, is not the actual price, but what do I get for what I paid for... the value. jetBlue may not be the cheapest all the time, but they are a very good value if you compare it to the majors, especially if you compare it to American.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DisgruntledGoat:
...I don't know what to expect. ...I'd fly them to see what the hype is about and if I liked it for domestic, I'd consider it in addition to AA.

Is B6 going to expand and do intl routes, or at least Canada/Mexico/Carribean?</font>

Well, they fly to Puerto Rico now, and one would imagine that further expansion is in the pipeline.

As to "hype", don't get all excited; it's a better than average coach product, reasonably priced w/o disrguntled (uh...sorry) employees.

For short hops, it's nice....I get on the plane at JFK, tune into SportsCenter, and am in BUF/SYR before you know it.

O/H

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jet'Dillo:
...I like the fact that I can do that on one carrier and take the miles/status that I've earned and use it to make life not suck when I have to go abroad.</font>

Obviously, there is a method to your madness, so why..

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jet'Dillo:
What I've found most irritating about people who fly LCCs is the disproportionate number who seem intent on telling me how much they hope all the majors fail and how much my preferred carrier sucks rather than trying to convince me why their choice is better. </font>

....do you give a sh*t about what anyone else thinks, based on their own (not your) flying pattern needs?

You shouldn't, and, believe me, it's Big Mojo....it's why people respect/fear (depending on whether they are Good or Evil)me at work.

Regards,

O/H

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Occupationalhazard:
....do you give a sh*t about what anyone else thinks, based on their own (not your) flying pattern needs?
</font>

I don't, but they often insist on telling me anyways.

I don't think the expansion and success of JetBlue implies that service will suffer. They bought RJs with more legroom. They are now adding legroom in most rows on their Airbuses. They added IFE and leather coaches to discount travel from day one. Other carriers with lower cost (ATA, AWA, etc.) offer a premium economy class (which they call first) with more legroom and improved service. I am sure some of these airlines will find the middle ground (cheaper walk-up fares, a few seats reserved for higher fare or loyal customers with better service - call it first/business/premium economy) profitable. I am loathe to make dire pronouncements on specific business models - a lot are being tested out in the market and I think the middle ground will survive if not thrive.

As I posted in another topic, I just bought an OAK-JFK RT on JetBlue for $301.50. Nonstop in November with a Sunday departure and a Tuesday return (no Sat. stay).

The cheapest nonstop on UAL, AA and DL for the same dates is over $1,800 out of SFO (since no Sat. stay).

Gosh, how horrible that JetBlue as hurt these other airlines by saving me $1,500. Preventing the big carriers from gouging the flying public should be outlawed.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhuey:
As I posted in another topic, I just bought an OAK-JFK RT on JetBlue for $301.50. Nonstop in November with a Sunday departure and a Tuesday return (no Sat. stay).

The cheapest nonstop on UAL, AA and DL for the same dates is over $1,800 out of SFO (since no Sat. stay).

Gosh, how horrible that JetBlue as hurt these other airlines by saving me $1,500. Preventing the big carriers from gouging the flying public should be outlawed. </font>

You are the poster child for the proposition that the cheapest fares are NOT always the passengers' primary concern. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Why, you ask?

AA.com is currently selling OAK-JFK for November Sun-Tue via DFW for $281.50, $20 less than B6. But you chose convenience (nonstop v. DFW connection) rather than save an extra $20. Just as often, passengers may choose to pay an extra $20 to fly AA rather than a typical LCC for reasons similar to those that caused you to chose B6.

Don't get me wrong - low fares are important; but they aren't the only important factor when chosing which airline to fly. And you are living proof of that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by FWAAA (edited 09-30-2003).]

Yes, FWAAA, I'll gladly pay an extra $20 for the nonstop. Heck, I'd pay an extra $250 for a transcon nonstop.

I'd bet my airfare that AA wasn't offering anything remotely close to $280 for OAK-JFK RT w/o a Sat. stay, prior to JetBlue's arrival.

I will side with dhuey on this one... JFK-West Coast transcons were the premium bread and butter for the majors. Even a week in advance I was paying $900+, today I rarely go past $550 LAST MINUTE on ANY carrier, with aprox $250 or so the normal fare.

Clearly UA, AA, DL and others NEVER attempted to do this UNLESS there was another carrier considered as a threat.

Unless one is a shareholder or employee of the majors, there is nothing but good that comes from JetBlue's arrival.