JetBlue TrueBlue - Expensive Fares...

I am typically a Continental fan, but with all of the hype about jetBlue, I am really interested in taking a flight with them. I live in the NYC area, and I was looking into taking a long weekend to Las Vegas in Feb (2/19-2/22). Continental was pricing out at $290 pp, whereas jetBlue was $360 pp. I really want to take B6, but I can't justify spending $70 extra per ticket (this is for 4 people, so that becomes a hefty $280). Is this pricing typical of B6 versus CO, considering the fact that they serve the same market (EWR vs JFK), or did I stumble upon a freak pricing model? Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

I have noticed that the Jetblue Sunday flights leaving LAS are always packed and thus the fares are high. I checked into your sitch and it seems like that must be a busy weekend for Jetblue. Its definitely an aberration of sorts as Ive flown on a Fri-Sun for around $270 before this past March.
Maybe check out ebay or flyertalk and see if anyone has any credits on jetblue or vouchers?

Typically JetBlue is much less expensive than CO especially flying to the west coast. But with LAS, CO might have gotten the message about fares, which is great news. For me, it's all about fares so if CO were less expensive, I'd fly CO.

I know most people don't agree with me, but I have found that Jetblue is hardly ever cheaper than the other airlines. I can usually find a less expensive fare on HP or American. Just my experience.

I agree...I have yet to fly JBLU because every time I price them against the majors, they (along with Southwest) price at least 50% more. I've checked transcons, Burlington, JFK out of FLL and they have never earned my business due to the outrageously high fares. No thanks, I'll take my frequent flyer miles and pocket the difference.

There is a reason the majors fares are sometimes more affordable... Go figure it out (hint: if B6 wasn't in those markets, what do you think the majors would be charging??)

Also B6 does a MUCH better job of filling the plane earlier than the majors... The majors seem to "drop their pants" 2 weeks before a flight and release more lower fare seats.

[This message has been edited by NickP 1K (edited 08-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Miami_Flyer:
I've checked transcons, Burlington, JFK out of FLL and they have never earned my business due to the outrageously high fares. </font>

Please define!

I do find that on many routes the majors (AA, UA, DL, etc.) offer better fares than B6 quite often - especially on nearly full flts close to dep date. With FF perks, I have chosen AA over B6 far too many times. Without B6, however, I do not think these fares would be offered.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marysunshine:
I know most people don't agree with me, but I have found that Jetblue is hardly ever cheaper than the other airlines. I can usually find a less expensive fare on HP or American. Just my experience.</font>

I agree. B6 has conned the flying public.
My son flies from NY to BUF. AT first B6 offered lower fares. Then, USAir started matching fares. And now USAir usually is lower than JetBlue.

It's amazing that 'the regular folks' buy into the whole IFE thing and the new planes.
But for the once a year flyer (not like us) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif they don't know any better.

One more thing, who wants to fly narrowbodies transcon when you can fly in a nice big, widebody jet (UA/AA) to LAX or SFO.

JetBlue spurred the competitors because they provided a product people like me want. I consider JetBlue as a hybrid---low-cost airline like WN but a civilized ride with perks the coach products on the majors still lack. I love the satellite TV; it has revolutionized my personal enjoyment of flying. They may not be the cheapest anymore but they are not outrageously expensive. They have nicer FAs, nicer airport agents, more comfortable seats, and a better all coach environment than most other airlines. I don't see this as a con. Sorry, Dan. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Analise,

I'll take my miles and upgrade to C any day (assuming the same price). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'll even take the UA meal vs me brown baggin' it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Dan

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhammer53:
Analise,

I'll take my miles and upgrade to C any day (assuming the same price). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'll even take the UA meal vs me brown baggin' it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Dan</font>

Is UA still allowing you to upgrade on all fare classes?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhammer53:
I agree. B6 has conned the flying public.
My son flies from NY to BUF. AT first B6 offered lower fares. Then, USAir started matching fares. And now USAir usually is lower than JetBlue.

It's amazing that 'the regular folks' buy into the whole IFE thing and the new planes.
But for the once a year flyer (not like us) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif they don't know any better.

One more thing, who wants to fly narrowbodies transcon when you can fly in a nice big, widebody jet (UA/AA) to LAX or SFO.

</font>

1. The max fare between BUF and JFK is $100 on B6. What was it before they entered the market? You are correct, the public has been conned when the max price is about the same as a bus ticket.

2. How many wide bodies does AA fly to their west coast destinations that have a sane pricing and fare rules (ie $300 max, $25 change, etc). Answer: NONE
Which aircraft will they remove the extra legroom in. Answer: the 757's running these routes.
Question What is the walk-up fare difference between LAX and LGB from JFK? Answer: a thousand dollars

So while you might get a better fare if you plan 6 months out, you will not be able to get them them a few days before departure, unless you take the routes that do not offer widebodies, or MRTC, or decent IFE, or that comfy C seat.

Yeah, B6 has the public conned.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by audio-nut:
Yeah, B6 has the public conned.</font>

Convincing consumers to pay more for your product than a competitors is not conning someone.

In the presentation by David Neeleman recently rebroadcast on C-SPAN, he boasted that JetBlue enjoys a revenue premium over Delta on NYC to Florida routes. So people are clearly choosing JetBlue even though it's more expensive sometimes than other airlines.

Heck, if I lived in NYC, I'd probably fly B6 too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FOH:
So people are clearly choosing JetBlue even though it's more expensive sometimes than other airlines.

Heck, if I lived in NYC, I'd probably fly B6 too.</font>


Many in the NY area are buying into the 'buzz' of JetBlue. If all you heard were good stories.... who would you (Joe casual flyer) fly?

Dan

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by audio-nut:
Is UA still allowing you to upgrade on all fare classes?

</font>


Yes. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Not to mention UA matches JetBlue on pricing. Instead of me flying JFK/LAX, I now fly JFK/LAX/ONT. I get the extra miles, and pay a much lower fare.

UA flies widebodies from JFK. And as far as I know, so does AA.

Many times these fares are available on 'short notice.' Prior to B6 doing this route, that wouldn't be the case.

One more thing; in the old days, prior to B6, flights within NY State between NY and ROC or BUF ran mid-$300 for midweek R/T. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif


[This message has been edited by dhammer53 (edited 08-29-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhammer53:
[B]
Yes. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

UA flies widebodies from JFK. And as far as I know, so does AA.
[B]</font>

Thanks for the clarification on upgrading on UA. I assumed that since they screwed with the SWU's that they did the same with domestic e-upgrades, ala DL.
I still fly a lot of AA, mostly Int'l but some domestic routes that B6 does operate. They have repriced their transcons except for LAX and SFO. Unfortunately they have also taken all the widebodies out of the nonpremium transcon markets and replaced them with a soon to be non-MRTC 757's. I am unwilling to be uncomfortable for 5+ hour flights just to get AA miles. B6 in a direct product comparison on these routes crushes AA.

I can always find cheaper fares on HP from SNA-LAS than B6 LGB-LAS, as well as AS SNA-OAK than B6 LGB-OAK, and AA SNA-JFK vs. B6 LGB-JFK....

I have been wanting to try them too, but they are pricing me out in favour of FF miles!

I agree though, that they are keeping the fares down on the majors, and I have no problem with that!

SNA flyer--Once B6 gives more legroom, you wont mind the extra $30-40 for stellar service, 24 channels of live TV and more legroom. Its worth trying once. I also have grabbed cheap fares, its a crapshoot as they go so dang fast. If you can catch a sale fast, B6's fares are darm close.

kdinino, I'm biting the bullet next week and flying them LGB-OAK. I'll give the DirecTV and good service a shot! I'm even paying $10 more vs. AS, but I'll save that in parking at LGB! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As nice as it all sounds, I'm doing too much Int'l travel these days(scheduled to go to LIM, GVA,VNO, and TRS all between now and Feb.) to really make it work for me. Domestic LCCs don't work for me if I can't take the point/miles/whatever I earn from them and turn them into a nice, comfy {C|J}-class seat during the 10-14 hours I need it.

JD

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Marysunshine:
I know most people don't agree with me, but I have found that Jetblue is hardly ever cheaper than the other airlines. I can usually find a less expensive fare on HP or American. Just my experience.</font>

I totally agree with you. I have looked at Jetblue and WN from ALB and they are rarley ever near CO or NW in price. To me both WN and Jetblue are just overhyped and not worth it to me. I guess if you aren't interested in F and international travel they would be good for a traveler. Jut my take.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arcolaio99:
To me both WN and Jetblue are just overhyped and not worth it to me.</font>

If you flew midweek from NYC to California and then want to return a few days later without enduring a Saturday night stay, you would see that there is no "hype" as you call it; there is tremendous cost savings.

Case in point:
Roundtrip to SAN from NYC leaving Sept 16 and returning Sept 18.
Continental's lowest fare from EWR: $2289
JetBlue's lowest fare from JFK: $286

There is no comparison. I typically fly to the westcoast midweek with under 7 day advanced notification. JetBlue's fare is 1/10 of what CO charges. Sorry, lame FF miles which get devalued by CO on almost a daily basis cannot justify my spending nearly $2000 more for transportation.

Plus....the JetBlue coach product is far superior to CO. Ask most CO elites and you will see they are fed up with flying 737s cross-country---not enough first-class seats. So again, where exactly is that false hype? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Analise (edited 09-10-2003).]

When people ask my opinion of whether to use a LCC, this is my standard advice:

On any given day in any given market, any airline may well have the lowest price, regardless of their LCC or full service status.

If you are planning a trip more than two weeks in advance that will include a Saurday night stay, you will likely find no meaningful difference in price. If you are flying with two weeks or do not want a Sturday nioght stayover, the LCC will likely be lower.

So, if you are a typical leisure passenger, an LCC will not automatically be the lowest price option. If you like a particular LCC's service, by all means fly them. If you like a particular full service airline's service, you can usually do so without inccurring a substantial, if any, cost penalty.

My experience with Jetblue have been pleasant. From check in to the ife, to the unlimited sodas and chips. Good enough for me. Before jet blue arrived if I wanted to fly out on short notice to the left coast the fares were just insance. Jetblue came along and changed all that. Suddenly, spur of the moment trips are possible and don't require me to plan out 3 months in advance or stay on saturday night, etc.
The big difference is that jetblue can make a ton of money at these low fares. American, United, et al can't. Jetblue is going to be much much bigger in the future. Their expansion in IAD is going to be something to watch.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dcflyer9:
Their expansion in IAD is going to be something to watch.</font>


What expansion plan does JetBlue have for IAD? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PresRDC:
If you are planning a trip more than two weeks in advance that will include a Saurday night stay, you will likely find no meaningful difference in price.</font>

Those are very specific parameters many business traveller do not fall under. If anything, that sounds more like leisure travel. I should not have to spend a Saturday night someplace just to get cheaper airfare on a major airline. JetBlue doesn't make me do that.

And what exactly are the full services the larger airlines provide? Many have stopped serving food. And I have always hated airline food so what exactly are the other services? If anything, JetBlue gives more amenities like satellite TV and more comfortable seats. So where is the sacrifice?

Lastly, I just tried, for the heck of it, to price a roundtrip midweek ticket on CO from EWR to SAN in both October 21-23 and December 9-11-----midweek dates I selected randomly that are beyond the 21 day advance purchase. They too are the same price as if I bought the tickets within 7 days: $2289.50. Now why is that? Look how much advanced notice there was. I did the same for JetBlue: The October itinerary's cost is $211.20. The December itineray is $251.50. Both are a little less than the flights which go out within 7 days advanced ticketing. The JetBlue itinerary is now UNDER 10% of what CO charges. And you get more in coach. Bigger plane, digital TV, more comfortable seats, and much more professional and friendly FAs. I bring my own meal and enjoy the snacks. Again, I hate coach airline food so not a big deal to me. This is win/win.

Had to book a last minute fare from NY to PBI. On Saturday at Noon, I decided to fly on the 4:00! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif Family emergency.

1 way on JetBlue $174.

1 way on the Delta website (for SONG travel) was $78 LGA/PBI. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Savings: a cool $100 dollars (rounded).

Dan

I'm hardly surprised about Florida, Dan. It is easy to fly there inexpensively. Why pay more? I have never flown Song; do you like flying them?

Yet for cross-country midweek, nobody can come close to JetBlue.

&gt;I was looking into taking a long weekend to Las Vegas in Feb (2/19-2/22). Continental was pricing out at $290 pp, whereas jetBlue was $360 pp.

Take AA JFK-LGB for $207pp, get a Mustang for $19 on PL, upgrade to a convertible for $10 at the counter, and drive to Vegas.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mbstone:
&gt;I was looking into taking a long weekend to Las Vegas in Feb (2/19-2/22). Continental was pricing out at $290 pp, whereas jetBlue was $360 pp.

Take AA JFK-LGB for $207pp, get a Mustang for $19 on PL, upgrade to a convertible for $10 at the counter, and drive to Vegas.</font>

Nothing like wasting 9 hours driving on a three day trip!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by audio-nut:
Nothing like wasting 9 hours driving on a three day trip!</font>


And how much does a gallon of gas cost in LA these days? $2.09-$2.20.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by audio-nut:
Nothing like wasting 9 hours driving on a three day trip!</font>

If that lovely convertible you rented breaks down on the road to Vegas, you could well end up wasting the whole three days. (It happens more often than you'd like to think - the limit may be 75 but there aren't too many cars that can go that fast under those conditions for that long.)

However... while I've always been disappointed by the speed at which jetBlue's cheap fares have sold out, and the expensiveness of what's left, you don't think the "majors" would have slashed prices to sub-jetBlue levels on their own, do you? Even though I've never actually flown jetBlue because the price or schedule or both never work out, I do give this airline silent thanks every time I see that the walk-up fares for the intra-NY flights are less than the advance-purchase fares were 5 years ago. Yes, the public has been conned... but not by jetBlue, not in the least.

[This message has been edited by Factotum (edited 09-16-2003).]

Thank you, Factotum. When are people going to realize that if jetBlue (and others) were not there, you'd be paying $1200 to fly AA (and others) cross country. Whether you like (or fly) B6 is not the question, but you should be thanking them for being there every day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Analise:
I'm hardly surprised about Florida, Dan. It is easy to fly there inexpensively. Why pay more? I have never flown Song; do you like flying them?
</font>


Since you asked http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I much rather fly 757's vs Airbus'. Something about big planes. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Seats are what I would call W Hotel type 'cool' colors. The trim around the leather seat is either pink, lime green, or a funny shade of blue. I guess they're trying to attract the 20 something crowd.

Uncomfortable seat vs B6.

As for food, SONG gives you free soda, juice or water. At least B6 gives you a nosh.

After grilling the flight attendants http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif I found out that they're all Delta employees. As Delta has downsized, they can either head to SONG, or head out the door. As a matter of fact, the F/A thinks Delta will contract as SONG gets bigger.

Check in was a breeze at LGA and PBI. You use the Delta counters. But, SONG has check in kiosks. Customer service folks are there to help you. Just put your credit card in (like an ATM). 1-2-3. That easy.

Food is available for sale...and I was surprised how good it looked. I guess more passengers will start buying as word spreads. Song has a limited availability of food. For my return flight, we had 100 pax, and food loaded for 30. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif The F/A said that they continue to run out of the 'good' things to eat. ie salad, wraps. Even though they had leftover food, they could have sold more of several items. I mean come on...2 of this, and 3 of that were loaded. The F/A's are complaining. They say Song is still 'working' on adjusting the numbers.

The staff is very nice. Since they're Delta trained, it's hard for them to be cutsy, but they're trying. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Free blankets that are the softest I've ever felt on a plane. Pillows (not available on my flight...yet) are $5.

For some of us, LGA is closer than JFK.
For some of us, cheaper flights on SONG, are better than higher prices on jetBlue. Word will eventually get out that B6 is more expensive some/most of the time. OK, maybe not on transcons. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

I'd fly them again.

My experience is that B6 does offer very cheap fares compared to the fares on that route or sector before B6 entered the market. Even looking at current prices they do offer competitive rates but they seem to get their planes full before the majors and so sometimes the majors offer cheaper fares for last minute purchase or for flts on which B6 is nearly sold out (with their load factors they are almost always sold out in the last minute).

As Analise pointed out earlier even with competition for weekday turnaround flts on many routes without B6 the fares can be sky high. If majors match B6 fares or even offer cheaper fares it is good for us consumers - but it is not a given.