MilesBuzz! - New National Airslots (bogus politics)

Just saw an article on the New National Airslots (1250+miles?). Seems to me like they are trying to turn DCA into a 3rd rate airport. Here is a quote

"With America West granted half the new flights beyond the distance limit, three other airlines settled for one round trip each. Trans World Airlines, based in St. Louis, capitalized on active lobbying by a longtime advocate, House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), to win a daily round trip to Los Angeles. Frontier Airlines, which had the backing of three western senators, will run a daily round trip to its base in Denver, and National Airlines, which had key support from Sen. Richard H. Bryan (D-Nev.), will operate a round trip to its base in Las Vegas."

What about the 'real' airlines, much better choices would have been :
UAL LAX->DCA (they acually have a hub in LA)
UAL DIA->DCA
DL SLC->DCA
What about UAL SFO->DCA???

What do you think?

The full article is at :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52941-2000Jul5.html

- Keith (I hate driving to Dulles)



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IAD-DCA-BWI Baby!

Granted, politics were involved in doling out slots, but in the end I approve of the situation. I'm glad that none of the "Big Five" (AA,UA,US,NW,CO) got those precious slots. To do what, maintain and extend the fare-gouging pratices at National??

Now we should expect to see some REAL competition on various routes into/out of DCA, especially when heading west.

National Airport is indeed a third-rate airport. What are you talking about? As someone who grew up in Washington, the only good thing about National is that it's easily reached by Metro. Outside that, it's one of the most congested and most dangerous airports in the USA. The new terminal may be pretty, and the new name a joke, but the runways are still as short as ever.

Dulles may be farther to get to, but infinitely safer to fly into and out of, plus it has far less delays.

Baltimore-Washington, which was called 'Friendship' when I was a child twenty years ago, is a user-friendly airport has a wonderful train connection to downtown Baltimore. Right inside the terminal. It's new pier is also a stunning piece of architecture, much more impressive than the egg-carton-esque terminal at National.

Slots into and out of National are determined solely by who gets to park at the airport in all of those reserved spaces, and which airlines give them the most contributions.

It's as simple as that.

DCmetro: I assume you have no problems with United taking over US Air.

Are you also concerned that Sun Country, National, Frontier and America West were awarded more slots at Ohare?

I whole-heartedly support the government's decision to give the slots to the less established carriers and increasing competition at National ... this move can be nothing but good for competition.

I think UA's proposed merger with US probably killed any chance they had of getting slots since they already have so many (regardless of the DC Air proposal).

Slots into and out of National are determined solely by who gets to park at the airport in all of those reserved spaces...

Very true. But then if it were not for Congressional patronage, DCA would have suffered the same fate as nearly every other "downtown" airport in the US, ie, closure. So as you gripe about those free parking spaces, realize that those spaces are the only reason the airport exists at all.

...and which airlines give them the most contributions.

If this statement were true, UAL, AMR and NW would have those slots. See for yourself at http://www.fec.gov. As the article makes clear it is NOT money, but geographical and home-congressional influence bringing home the pork barrel! And isn't that the JOB of any decent legislator??????

Dulles may be farther to get to, but infinitely safer to fly into and out of, plus it has far less delays.

On what evidence do you base this statement? I've had far more (and longer) delays out of IAD than DCA. And safety? How are you measuring that? Based on the approach/runway length? Isn't that potential safety? Because, frankly, more people have died on flights originating in or destined for ORD, JFK, MIA, NRT, LAX, LHR etc, etc, etc than in or out of DCA...

Anyway, God bless John McCain http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif, and here's to hoping prices come down at DCA!

Originally posted by dholloway:
National Airport is indeed a third-rate airport...

It's as simple as that.


Ummm, no. If you live and work inside the Beltway, National Airport is FAR more convenient to use than IAD or BWI. The Metro connection is wonderful and the new terminal is simply a joy to use (great clubs and a very efficient baggage system). Never billed as an international airport, DC residents have always headed out to IAD (and to a lesser degree BWI) for their international non-stops. With the huge traffic issues the DC area now experiences (second only to LA's infamous gridlock) the thought of catching a 6 pm flight out of IAD on a Friday evening means leaving downtown DC at 3:30 or 4 pm at the latest.


Now regarding that new name... what a joke. They already name a BILLION dollar office building downtown after Ronnie but I suppose that wasn't enough. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

DCA is world-class, in my opinion. It's a short ride to the airport from most points within the Beltway, it's "centralized" but not cramped, and the new design beats the tired, old buildings that we used to call DCA.

BTW, I never call National Airport Reagan National. But then again, I've never noticed a Democratic member of Congress (my boss included) or a Democratic staffer call it that either...

*Note UAL is my Fav. airline, so this is a bit biased*

National is definitely not a 3rd rate airport. It is 10-30 minutes from the city (you can actually catch the metro there) and has CLOSE parking. DCA doesn't have a crappy 'INTERIM' terminal and do you know how many times I have been stuck on a *mobile lounge* as my airplane was leaving the gate???


12 Slots why not give 1 to each carrier and let them decide what to do with it. That is real competition. Or why not just auction them off? Like the FCC does with the cell-phone carriers?

Tango : Hey, I don't have a problem with purchasing an airline (delta did it with western, NW tried to with CO). Interesting to see what the regulators and pilots say.

Beckles : Great competition between 3rd rate airlines. What is this a government subsidy, airline welfare? You want to increase competition, why not give 2 carriers the same routes? It would be great to have TWA compete against UAL for LAX->DCA.

What do you think that TWA will charge for a LAX<->DCA ticket? At least with UAL one can get to another part of California (without flying through St. Louis). Of course it is going to be a profitable route, good luck seeing that on an E-Fare.

The government's decision made plenty of sense. HP, like 'em or not, should have gotten the most slots because they are the only major that serves DC that can't fly to it from its main hubs. Also, it is able to bring new one-stop service to many Western cities, as well as bring more competition and lower fares to DCA.

Frontier getting a slot also should help with competition/fares.

The TWA decision was a big political one, but should help out that carrier.

I was a bit surprised by National getting slots, but I guess they're pretty well financed and so the government is giving them a shot.

First, one slot wouldn't do a whole lot of good, you need two slots for roundtrip service. Second, I personally don't think the airlines (with the possible exception of Frontier) are "third rate" airlines ... they are smaller airlines, but they offer a good product, and from what I know of some of the airlines (Midwest Express and Midway), they are better in some respect to the majors ...

True competition does not exist within the airline industry. The cost of entry is to high and many of the key airports have capcitiy controls. By giving these slots to the non-major's, the govt is trying to breath life back into competitive forces.

Originally posted by Tango:
True competition does not exist within the airline industry. The cost of entry is to high and many of the key airports have capcitiy controls. By giving these slots to the non-major's, the govt is trying to breath life back into competitive forces.

The "cost of entry" may seem high to the average Joe like you and me, but given the size of the industry, they really are not that high. In the last year alone we've had three very promising start ups with good chances of success begin operations, National, Legend, and SkyBlue ...

Ummm... "Big Five"? DL did carry more pax than any other carrier last year. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

I am also happy that none of the "majors" got any of the DCA slots. I would have been happy to see Southwest or ATA get some of them to promote fare competition; perhaps that will happen with the airlines that did receive the slots.

Originally posted by avek00:
Granted, politics were involved in doling out slots, but in the end I approve of the situation. I'm glad that none of the "Big Five" (AA,UA,US,NW,CO) got those precious slots. To do what, maintain and extend the fare-gouging pratices at National??

Now we should expect to see some REAL competition on various routes into/out of DCA, especially when heading west.



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Time..... is on my side.

I disagree totally with the title of this posting. IMHO it is not "BOGUS" politics.......it is the not-too-nice, tried-n-true "REAL" politics.

I would bet that Southwest didn't even ask for slots at DCA ... it would not be economical for them to operate from there with only a small handful of flights daily that they could have hoped to get.

Originally posted by Beckles:
The "cost of entry" may seem high to the average Joe like you and me, but given the size of the industry, they really are not that high. In the last year alone we've had three very promising start ups with good chances of success begin operations, National, Legend, and SkyBlue ...

Three new airlines that have started service during booming economic times --- lets wait until the economy slumps and the airlines get more competitive with each other again.

If you use history as any indication of the lifespan of these new airlines, it does not look good. Of the three I would give National the best chances of making it.

If they REALLY wanted competition, they should have given the slots to Airtran Airways; a true discounter!

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Via con Dios!