Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan - Delta/ Alaska Deal?

On the Delta board, there's speculation about a code share deal with Alaska. (Sorry I'm not clever enough to post a link.) Has anybody heard anything? Thanks

Here's the thread in the DL forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum21/HTML/012082.html)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ConnFlyer:
[B]Delta, Alaska Air Prepare To Ink Partnership Deal

Aviation Daily 10/17/2003

Delta and Alaska Airlines, as early as today, are expected to unveil a new marketing and domestic code-share partnership, sources tell The DAILY. Delta has been looking to boost access to West Coast destinations, and Alaska has been working to win East Coast passengers with new transcontinental routes.

Whoa! If this is true, it's huge. How long can AS play both sides like this? They are in deep with oneWorld already, especially having just added new partner CX. Now this would also cement their involvement with SkyTeam. I hope they can pull it off and remain a partner with the OW airlines...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ender83:
Whoa! If this is true, it's huge. How long can AS play both sides like this? They are in deep with oneWorld already, especially having just added new partner CX. Now this would also cement their involvement with SkyTeam. I hope they can pull it off and remain a partner with the OW airlines...</font>

AS is not part of the oneworld alliance. We partner with oneworld partners, but are not in oneworld.

Hmmm...I am not sure how I feel about this possible code-share idea with DL. Wouldn't AA get a bit bugged by this arrangement?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PointWeasel:
Wouldn't AA get a bit bugged by this arrangement?</font>

Big deal. NW already codeshares on AS metal to a much larger extent than any other airline.

ALK (AlaskaAor Group) is independent and does what it so d@mn well chooses.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RASMguy:
AS is not part of the oneworld alliance. We partner with oneworld partners, but are not in oneworld.

</font>

I know that. I said that Alaska was in deep with oneWorld, which is true. They are partnered with AA, BA, QF, LA and CX, leaving out only AY, IB, Aer Lingus and (soon) LX.

My point, as also stated by PointWeasel was that there are potential bumps ahead with the oneWorld partners (especially AA) in light of this new deal, if true.

In regard to the point about NW, was AS partnered with them before AA or the other way around?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ender83:
In regard to the point about NW, was AS partnered with them before AA or the other way around?</font>

Long long before. I was earning NW miles for AS flights in the early/mid '90s. AA's partnership with AS came about after AA started to dismember the QQ operations which competed with AS. Definitely no AA partnership before late '90s.

Personally I hope not as Delta seams to give an image that they do not appreciate their customers and frequent flyers. I would hate it to rub off on to Alaska.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
Long long before. I was earning NW miles for AS flights in the early/mid '90s. AA's partnership with AS came about after AA started to dismember the QQ operations which competed with AS. Definitely no AA partnership before late '90s.</font>

Actually, AS/AA had probably the original "code share" situation 15+ years ago on services from DFW. I don't know what/who's mileage was earned when flying the shared service.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Eastbay1K:
Actually, AS/AA had probably the original "code share" situation 15+ years ago on services from DFW. </font>

Interesting. Way before my time. I imagine that lasted until AA bought AirCal (1987) and didn't help when AA bought QQ in the mid '90s after bringing it into the AAdvantage fold.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by smilee:
Personally I hope not as Delta seams to give an image that they do not appreciate their customers and frequent flyers. I would hate it to rub off on to Alaska.</font>

True...but if we gain more possibilities to the frequent flyer program that is good, right?

But at some point this code-sharing thing is going to result in basically 2 airlines and is that not anti-competitive at some point?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
But at some point this code-sharing thing is going to result in basically 2 airlines and is that not anti-competitive at some point? </font>

It would appear this isn't a major concern of the current executive administration. Otherwise the CO-DL-NW deal most likely wouldn;t have "flown".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Eastbay1K:
Actually, AS/AA had probably the original "code share" situation 15+ years ago on services from DFW. I don't know what/who's mileage was earned when flying the shared service.
</font>

I was just trying to recall the details of how that all worked. I never did "the AS/AA interchange" personally, but IIRC, Alaska and American operated ANC-SEA-DFW as codeshare route starting in the early 80s. What was interesting is that a mixture of AS and AA 727-200s plied the routes, but I believe only AS crew flew the SEA-ANC sector while AA crew flew the SEA-DFW portion. I know by the time I was flying AS regularly (early 90s), SEA-ANC was operated by AS crews on AS metal. However, I think AS metal continued to visit Dallas into the mid 90s.

I believe AS/AA had a similar agreement on the SEA-ORD route for a time in the early 90s. I'm not sure AS metal ever made its way to ORD, but it was definitely a codeshare route for AS.

[This message has been edited by EIPremier (edited 10-20-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
True...but if we gain more possibilities to the frequent flyer program that is good, right?</font>

DL already killed their FF program; they've pressured CO into doing the same; they're applying similar pressure to NW.

DL is bad news for AS and the rest of the FF community.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by channa:
DL already killed their FF program; they've pressured CO into doing the same; they're applying similar pressure to NW.

DL is bad news for AS and the rest of the FF community.</font>

Another important point, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Geez -- codeshares operated on DL metal. At least it'll be a way to use up my leftover DL drink coupons.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by EIPremier:
I never did "the AS/AA interchange" personally, but IIRC, Alaska and American operated ANC-SEA-DFW as codeshare route starting in the early 80s. What was interesting is that a mixture of AS and AA 727-200s plied the routes, but I believe only AS crew flew the SEA-ANC sector while AA crew flew the SEA-DFW portion. I know by the time I was flying AS regularly (early 90s), SEA-ANC was operated by AS crews on AS metal. However, I think AS metal continued to visit Dallas into the mid 90s.</font>

I flew ANC-FAI on AA metal a number of times, my last being in 1990.

Perhaps also of interest was that prior to Alaska's interchange with American, they partnered with Braniff on the DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI route. I flew BN metal (orange) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/003900.html) on the ANC-SEA route back in 1976. Don't know which carrier crewed that flight, but I miss seeing those BN jets at Fairbanks International. We used to bet on what color the arriving plane would be that day. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Seat 2A (edited 10-21-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
It would appear this isn't a major concern of the current executive administration. Otherwise the CO-DL-NW deal most likely wouldn;t have "flown".</font>

Well, I still think at some point this whole issue gets bad for the consumer. It eliminates competition on routes. I still not sure this is what is best for Alaska anyway....Alaska is a winner, profitable, has good customer service, and values its customers. Delta, on the other hand, is struggling and has awful customer service and rude employees. Is this a good match?

We'll see what happens in the end with all of this.

With DL ending their "relationship" with UA, they have a very poor presence west of SLC. CO and NW don't ply up and down "the West", either.

AS has the strongest route structure west of the Rockies. This makes them a powerful codeshare partner. UA, as the #2 west coast flyer, is not an option due to their being wedded to Star Alliance.

And with AS' concentration in this area, they need other partners to serve destinations out of this stronghold. No doubt AS watches these codeshare routes and where they see a lot of AS-flyer traffic (DCA, MIA, ORD, DEN, EWR) they start their own service to capture that revenue back into AS.

I give AS credit. With codeshares with everyone and their grandmother, they offer their frequent flyers the world - literally. And they offer their partners access to western North America.

I don't see AS or their passengers gaining anything compelling by wedding themselves to OneWorld or SkyTeam. As I understand it, mileage redemption and earning options are good with all of them, as is award travel. The only thing you lose is the ability to use miles to upgrade partners to a premium cabin and (in certain cases) lounge access. Sure, both are important, but I believe the other benefits outweigh the few drawbacks.

As for DL hurting AS' mileage program - won't happen. At least not because DL tells them to. The fact SkyTeam is quickly repealing many of their recent changes shows that frequent flyers are far more fickle than ST thought them to be. AS may find the same with their recent changes.

There may come a time when OneWorld and SkyTeam tell AS "pick one". But until they do, I believe AS and their passengers are far better off doing it how they are doing it now.

And don't forget that DL is steadily progressing towards "All RJs-- All the time" at SLC. Used to be that I would fully consider, for example, a SEA-SLC-PHX connection on DL, but that's out of the question if one or both of the flights is an RJ. If there is an AS deal, this could be another nail in the coffin of the SLC hub, and indeed this might be part of the reason that DL is putting so many more RJs into SLC starting in January.

I still don't see it. I do not believe that the addition of Delta is beneficial to Alaska. Is it beneficial to Delta? Absolutely.

It looks to me that Delta needs Alaska more than Alaska needs Delta. Why does Alaska "need" another nationwide partner? There really is no benefit to Alaska over what the others (AA, NWA, CO) provide already, except maybe frequent flyer credit for a non-stop flight to Atlanta, Cincinnati, or Salt Lake. The other partners already provide the service to the other parts of the country and world that Delta can provide.

All I can say is that IF Alaska lets Delta into the fold that it set in some strong benefits to itself or Delta can walk. First, it is very hard to redeem frequent flyer awards on Delta as it is - there needs to be some benefit to the Alaska frequent flyer member, so this has to be upgraded. Second, allow MVP/MVP Gold to upgrade on Delta using the same methodologies at Alaska. Third, code-share on all routes and allow Alaska to sell the ticket directly, none of this pick and choose flights method. Fourth, hold Delta's employees to a customer service standard - no rudeness or there is a financial penalty. This is a must. This should include pilots, reseverations, and airport check in agents as well. My experience with Delta is that its employees are extremely disgruntled and there is no reason why Alaska customers should be forced to put up with this.

But in the end I see no benefit to Alaska, but if Alaska should decide to de-value itself and allow Delta it needs to drive a hard bargain.

My opinions, of course.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:

Fourth, hold Delta's employees to a customer service standard - no rudeness or there is a financial penalty. This is a must. This should include pilots, reseverations, and airport check in agents as well. My experience with Delta is that its employees are extremely disgruntled and there is no reason why Alaska customers should be forced to put up with this.

But in the end I see no benefit to Alaska, but if Alaska should decide to de-value itself and allow Delta it needs to drive a hard bargain.

My opinions, of course. </font>

No airline will allow itself to be "held" to another airlines standards. Besides, I'm sure the execs at DL feel that their employees are every bit as good as the AS employees. If someone doesn't like DL they can always fly AA, NWA or CO.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by toadman:
No airline will allow itself to be "held" to another airlines standards. Besides, I'm sure the execs at DL feel that their employees are every bit as good as the AS employees. If someone doesn't like DL they can always fly AA, NWA or CO.

</font>

But isn't that what CO is allowing itself to do under DL's pressure? They've folded to .5 EQMs for deeply discounted fares, and NW is also feeling the pressure. I just hope they don't buckle, too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flyerkat:
But isn't that what CO is allowing itself to do under DL's pressure?</font>

I think it's because Gordo feels the same about cheap FFers as Leo does.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
I think it's because Gordo feels the same about cheap FFers as Leo does.</font>

To be a little more "charitable" to Gordon, if DL was the only domestic member of SkyTeam to offer 50% mileage accural on low(er) fares, most folks would be booking CO and NW codeshares or flying those airlines whenever possible.

Should all three drop to 50% (NW appears to be as yet undecided), then it does not offer any incentive to choose one airline over the other when it comes to earning miles.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
To be a little more "charitable" to Gordon, if DL was the only domestic member of SkyTeam to offer 50% mileage accural on low(er) fares, most folks would be booking CO and NW codeshares or flying those airlines whenever possible.</font>

Gordo however is offering full mileage & segment credits for flights booked on & purchased from the CO website.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
Gordo however is offering full mileage & segment credits for flights booked on & purchased from the CO website.</font>

He is indeed.

Which does nothing for the business traveller who purchases through a corporate or corporate-manded travel agency, alas.

That is what is really frosting many CO elites. The lowest fare leisure travellers and mileage-runners will get 100% miles while the "mixed-fare" business flyer will only see full-credit when they pay the higher fares.

And we all know how hard businesses are trying to drive down travel expenses by booking cheapest class whenever possible...

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-22-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
To be a little more "charitable" to Gordon, if DL was the only domestic member of SkyTeam to offer 50% mileage accural on low(er) fares, most folks would be booking CO and NW codeshares or flying those airlines whenever possible.</font>

It's actually 50% elite-qualifying miles. Actual mileage earned remains unchanged.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by toadman:
No airline will allow itself to be "held" to another airlines standards. Besides, I'm sure the execs at DL feel that their employees are every bit as good as the AS employees. If someone doesn't like DL they can always fly AA, NWA or CO.

</font>

You got that right. They would never do that. But this just illustrates how this deal does not make any sense for Alaska to do. It does, however, make sense for Delta. Delta needs Alaska more than Alaska needs Delta. Therefore, Alaska needs to drive a hard bargain as it is in the drivers seat

WebTraveler, do you think that means that AS might have enough bargaining power to get us some kind of upgrade priledges on international flights? Whether it's a limited number (like one) paper cert or the ability to upgrade any flight on Delta with miles. We don't really have that ability right now with any carrier...mileage upgrades like the programs offer their own members. For instance, QF and AA have mileage upgrade awards.

Anyway, I asked today at the ANC MVPG luncheon about a rumored partnership with Delta and expressed that we wouldn't like to be treated the way Delta treats their frequent fliers. Ann Ardizone said she cannot comment on any possible partnership with Delta at this time. She didn't say that was impossible.

Delta elites have a tough enough time upgrading on international flights!

*IF* one is lucky, one can upgrade on FULL FARE ONLY. We're talking easily $1,500 per person to Europe from the West Coast. Delta has very strict "capacity controls". They have no problem whatsoever leaving top-tier elites on those full coach fares in the back, while several (not just "one or two") seats up front go empty (assuming there aren't enough non-revs to fill them all).

I would not wish their $$$$ lottery system on AS elites.

I think getting mileage-paid, let alone courtesy upgrades on other carriers is pure wishful thinking. Not too many airline FFPs offer mileage paid upgrades on other airlines, and no (major) North American ones AFAIK. You should be grateful to get the reciprocal one with NW although elites of both are beneath the lowest of the own elites.

Well, I didn't really think it would happen! I just thought that with Delta being such a crappy airline that they might be desperate. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I think that is the only way I would ever choose Delta...upgrading on Intl.

[This message has been edited by stef315 (edited 10-22-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stef315:
WebTraveler, do you think that means that AS might have enough bargaining power to get us some kind of upgrade priledges on international flights? Whether it's a limited number (like one) paper cert or the ability to upgrade any flight on Delta with miles. We don't really have that ability right now with any carrier...mileage upgrades like the programs offer their own members. For instance, QF and AA have mileage upgrade awards.</font>

I would highly doubt that DL would allow an international upgrade but maybe some kind of domestic upgrade. Would be a good move to get more AS fliers to give DL a look for the possible chance of an upgrade alla NWA.

All I have said is that if Alaska were to do this I would think that Alaska could drive a hard bargain and get decent benefits in return. Otherwise, what good would a partnership with Delta really do for anyone that regularly flies Alaska? I doubt much. There are already decent tie-ins with Northwest and AA, and a less than perfect one with Continental. Between these three airlines the world and the United States is virtually covered. So adding Delta to the mix would do what?

It would:

(1) provide flights to Salt Lake City getting Mileage Plan credit. Right now this is one of those gaping holes in the system.

(2) provide us direct flights to Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Salt Lake (as mentioned above) Dallas is already covered with the AA deal. Is travel to Cincinnati non-stop a big deal many Pacific Northwest? Atlanta would be a decent benefit, but really not that big of a deal.

On the other side, does Delta provide service to any international destination that is not already serviced by another Mileage Plan partner?

I doubt too many travelers would fly Delta to Hawaii since they are forced to connect out of Salt Lake. I do believe there are LAX flights to Hawaii as well, which would provide some benefit to those in LA, except I believe AA and Continental already cover that angle for the Mileage Plan.

My point is that Delta really doesn't offer Alaska and its customers much more than what it already has. To Delta, however, Alaska could fill a gaping hole in their system on the west coast. To that end it is Delta that will benefit under this possible deal. Therefore, Alaska should drive a hard bargain if it decides to do it!

I can't find any destinations Delta would offer new service to, though they offer faster and possibly more convenient connections to some European destinations via JFK or ATL then KLM would offer via AMS. (SVO, FCO, NCE, BOM, STR, VCE, IST and ATH for example)

DL would also be the only Mileage Plan partner to offer service to MEX via LAX, which would eliminate the need to connect on AA via DFW. DL also offers a slightly later LAX-GDL flight then AS.

In the end, MP members simply have more choices, which is always a good thing.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sxf24:
In the end, MP members simply have more choices, which is always a good thing.</font>

And DL flyers have more choices on AS, which is a good thing for AS, as it means more revenue which means (hopefully) AS flyers will not see a further erosion of Mileage Plan benefits.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
And DL flyers have more choices on AS, which is a good thing for AS, as it means more revenue which means (hopefully) AS flyers will not see a further erosion of Mileage Plan benefits.</font>

Do you really think this will bring Alaska a huge chunk of new flyers? There is little competition between Alaska and Delta. In order to get where Alaska goes you will basically need to take Alaska. In many cases United and Southwest are other options. For example, it is doubtful even the total Delta loyalist will fly Portland-Salt Lake- San Francisco when they can already take Alaska Portland-San Francisco. So where is the new customer here?

Let's also assume a guy needs to get to Eugene from New York or Boston. The guy can't fly Delta as they don't go there and essentially will likely already take an Alaska partner to get there by connection.

So while Delta can offer Alaska some new passengers I am not sure the number is really that great. Again, Alaska is in the driver's seat.

One area I do think Delta could help us with is connections via Atlanta to the Caribbean. Does Delta serve the Caribbean well? Right now, aside from Puerto Rico, it is almost impossible to get somewhere in the Caribbean in less than 3 planes. AA it is a change in DFW and Miami OR San Juan, Cotinental it is a change in Houston then a change to a code-share partner, NWA doesn't serve it to my knowledge. So this is one area I think Delta could help.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
One area I do think Delta could help us with is connections via Atlanta to the Caribbean. Does Delta serve the Caribbean well? </font>

Delta has a solid Caribbean network, though it is smaller than American's. I counted 10 cities served via DL or Delta Connection via ATL. Almost all involve a long layover in ATL from the SEA or PDX redeyes.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
Do you really think this will bring Alaska a huge chunk of new flyers? There is little competition between Alaska and Delta. In order to get where Alaska goes you will basically need to take Alaska.</font>

Which is why it makes sense for Delta.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
For example, it is doubtful even the total Delta loyalist will fly Portland-Salt Lake- San Francisco when they can already take Alaska Portland-San Francisco. So where is the new customer here?</font>

If the Delta (DL) loyalist can earn and redeem miles on AS/QX, they will fly Alaska (AS) over United (UA) or Southwest (WN). When UA and DL had a mileage agreement (through 09/03), they would have flown UA. So AS will now get DL passengers that used to fly UA, and will keep them off WN.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
So while Delta can offer Alaska some new passengers I am not sure the number is really that great. Again, Alaska is in the driver's seat.</font>

Yes AS is, but only in that being able to earn and redeem SkyMiles on AS flights makes them the "logical" choice for a DL SkyMiles member. All of us here at FlyerTalk are proof that people will spend more and fly more (in terms of routing) to earn miles. AS must make it worthwhile for a DL flyer to choose them, and not go with just price on United, or Southwest, or Frontier.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
One area I do think Delta could help us with is connections via Atlanta to the Caribbean.</font>

Well, AA has the Carribean well-covered, though as you note, connections may be needed. DL is actually pretty weak (http://www.delta.com/travel/maps_guides/dest_maps/latin_america/index.jsp) there.

Where DL helps AS travellers is getting to the "deep South" - Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and North and South Carolina (http://www.delta.com/travel/maps_guides/dest_maps/united_states/eastern/index.jsp). AA and CO have a far smaller presence there then DL does.

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-24-2003).]

I am suprised that every airline with the exception of United and America West do not have codeshares with Alaska.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
I am suprised that every airline with the exception of United and America West do not have codeshares with Alaska.</font>

*grin*

Well, United doesn't need them (UAX covers the West, UA has service to ANC, and Mexicana covers South of the Border).

Can't speak for America West.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
Well, AA has the Carribean well-covered, though as you note, connections may be needed. DL is actually pretty weak there.

If the Delta (DL) loyalist can earn and redeem miles on AS/HQ, they will fly Alaska (AS) over United (UA) or Southwest (WN). When UA and DL had a mileage agreement (through 09/03), they would have flown UA. So AS will now get DL passengers that used to fly UA, and will keep them off WN.

Where DL helps AS travellers is getting to the "deep South" - AA and CO have a far smaller presence there then DL does.</font>

If, as you say, the Caribbean is not well covered by Delta than that is not a plus for Alaska travelers. You'd think with the Atlanta location they'd maximize that area. But being tourist areas this is not the area where Delta has traditionally wanted to be in.

In the UA vs. AS game I think there could be some pickup of flyers on the SEA/PDX - SFO/LAX routes. I still don't think it is that many since I think many already choose Alaska anyway - sure the tie in of FF miles would make the decision easier. Also, if you consider the SEA/PDX - OAK, SJC, ONT, SAN, SNA, BUR routes then UA isn't going to help anyway, so again these flyers are already on Alaska, so no pick up.

Deep south could be of assistance. But I am not too sure there is that much traffic there from the PNW. If so you'd think that NWA would expand flights from its Memphis mini-hub. I don't know the answer to this question, but are there decent connections from the deep south via NW at Memphis? AA at DFW, Co at Houston? I don't do the deep south too often. I do know that NWA does not have a flight from PDX to Memphis, so there can't be a huge demand for the deep south or they would have added that.

What about anti-trust concerns? I would think that the United/USAir group would cry foul. Think about it....if Alaska ties up deals with AA, NWA, CO, Delta, and Hawaiian that really puts the squeeze on UA/USAir. I think that may be too many of the airlines. Personally I always have liked the competitiveness of Horizon and Skywest. It has been too bad that after 9/11 Skywest has curtailed back many of its routes, dropping some all together. The more choice, the lower fare.

For what it is worth, I still don't see the advantage for Alaska to enter this deal.

UA and US together, plus Star, pretty much get you anywhere you want to go. So AS is not a real "threat" to them anymore than the other Big Six are (of which AS is a partner with).

AS and UA have a pretty complimentary route structure (with AS providing direct service, versus connecting with UA) for most of the "big" and "medium" markets. Yes, QX's better penetration and AS' direct flights may very well convince non Mileage Plus members to pick AS, anyway. But this is a marketing tie-in, and as such, it makes it more likely folks will chose AS, which is a good thing for AS and their flyers (especially if those folks are not MP members and staying back in Economy *grin*).

[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 10-24-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
If the Delta (DL) loyalist can earn and redeem miles on AS/HQ, they will fly Alaska (AS)...</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
Yes, HQ's better penetration and AS' direct flights may very well convince non Mileage Plus members to pick AS...[/B]</font>

What is this HQ that you are referring to? Is it a carrier code? If so, this page (http://www.jetliners.net/airline_iata_codes-bycode.php) saids HQ is Business Express Airlines - BEX, which I am not familiar with (http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=PLGA&OPER_FAR=121++++&OPER_NAME=BUSINESS+EXPRESS+AIRLINES+INC). Does HQ have something to do with Headquarters?

The more opportunities or options one has the better. Regardless of route coverage overlap by other AS partner airlines the fact is it isn't easy these days redeeming miles for awards. I say the more the merrier!

Most of Alaska's existing partners can get our passengers to just about every corner of the globe.

DL's limited Caribbean/South America coverage doesn't bring a lot to the table for AS customers, especially considering that both AA and CO are incredibly strong there.

Of course DL does have a strong European network, but so do both AA and CO, as does NW.

DL's Asia service is almost laughable; NW and CO provide far more service to Asia.

So if AS and DL are talking, it's to provide domestic feed and connectivity.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by keithguy:
What is this HQ that you are referring to? Is it a carrier code? If so, this page (http://www.jetliners.net/airline_iata_codes-bycode.php) saids HQ is Business Express Airlines - BEX, which I am not familiar with (http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DSGN_CODE=PLGA&OPER_FAR=121++++&OPER_NAME=BUSINESS+EXPRESS+AIRLINES+INC). Does HQ have something to do with Headquarters?</font>

Business Express Airlines was a commuter carrier focused around Boston/Logan (BOS). They were purchased by AMR a few years ago and have been integrated into American Eagle.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by keithguy:
What is this HQ that you are referring to?</font>

Being brain-damaged, I mean, Horizon Airlines, which is QX.

I really hope that AS does not give in to any idea of establishing a code share with DL. I have been a DL elite for the past fifteen years, earning lifetime elite status and well over two million actual flown miles. I have seen Delta decline from being an absolutely outstanding global airline to being one of the worst-run and most arrogant companies in the industry, leading me to migrate over to Alaska this year, where I have had no regrets. Hopefully the AS board will do some serious homework before ever entertaining a code share arrangement with this atrocity from Atlanta.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WebTraveler:
[B] For example, it is doubtful even the total Delta loyalist will fly Portland-Salt Lake- San Francisco when they can already take Alaska Portland-San Francisco.

I have done that a few times myself, but less likely now that DL is putting so many RJs in SLC.

Let's also assume a guy needs to get to Eugene from New York or Boston. But currently a DLoyalist could go to PDX and drive.

So while Delta can offer Alaska some new passengers I am not sure the number is really that great.

I do think that DL could help Alaska steer some business away from other carriers going to Alaska to AS. And I'd like to get DL miles (or use DL free tickets) when I go fishing out of Juneau.