Newsstand - Private airport security firms could get back in screening business

"While most airline passengers now encounter Transportation Security Administration employees at airport security checkpoints across the country, private companies are handling screening at five airports and the number could expand next year. "

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0803/080803cd1.htm

And I thought impersonating a government agent is/was a crime?

(Fixed URL)


[This message has been edited by HeHateY (edited 08-31-2003).]

They are NOT impersonating ANYBODY.

This was part of the legislation that created this IDIOTIC agency in the first place.

The TSA is not better than the private companies. I say why wait, let's can all of this deadwood and go back to private screeners.

No, they are not "impersonating" anyone. However, there are several companies vying for these contracts and if you think things are inconsistent now, wait till there are several companies doing things the way they want to, then you will see real inconsistency.

------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

If there is a TSA Federal Security Director (Like the one in SFO), why would there be any difference.

There is ZERO consistency now, how can it get any worse?

It can get much worse, each company, being profit driven will defer to the airlines, just like they did pre 9/11. I have seen airline station managers try to get prohibited items past the checkpoint for some "preferred" passengers. No such luck with us. He was very indignent and explained that they did this all the time before the gov't took over and the airlines had more say over security. With "private" security companies that sort of thing will return. The screening manager would be the only "TSA" person in the concourse and would be unable to see everything that goes on. When security is a "for profit" enterprise, then corners will always be cut and you end up with the "least common denominator." As for the TSA inconsistancies, look no further than the supervisors on the checkpoint, each of them interpret the regs in a different way. I have watched ours openly argue over them, it is both funny and sad at the same time, if such a thing is possible.

The FSD seldom comes into the terminal, they are "politicians" and have found a way to make some HUGE bucks off the gov't. Many of them are already retired from gov't jobs. They were even given a waiver so that they can collect both their retirement and their TSA pay at once, something that other former gov't employees were not given. My main point here is that the FSD is basically a "money man" in that he controls budget and does the administrative work. I have not seen my FSD in weeks.

------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist



[This message has been edited by The Unknown Screener (edited 09-01-2003).]

You are still not making a case for the "Government" Screeners.

If the current supervisors are inconsistent, how will there be an improvement?

As for the past, the Airlines hired and fired the security firms. That is why the firms were beholden to the Airlines.

Under the proposed system for "privitization", the Security Firms would be beholden the the Government.

The only real difference will be the elimination of THOUSANDS of Goverment Paychecks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
The only real difference will be the elimination of THOUSANDS of Goverment Paychecks. </font>

Not true, the gov't will award the contracts, and pay them.

The airlines cannot afford to pay for security anymore. The costs to the taxpayer will very likely be greater as these security firms will have to show a profit, something that the TSA does not have to do.

One can argue that this will actually save money, but the corners being cut by the private companies to boost their profits will offset any savings that might be realized. How many contractors underbid and then renegotiate their contract? NCSP did that very thing when they took the contract to set up the TSA, look where that got us, a 100 million dollar contract cost us over 700 million. Screeners aside, private security companies will gouge the taxpayers far more than the TSA ever dreamed of and will provide no better security for the cost.



------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

The Government will pay the companies. The Companies will pay the employees. The PRIVATE employees.

No more goverment hacks after cushy government pensions/benefits.

Read the sunset clause...benefits HAVE to be the same, as does the pay. You really need to look at these things. Congress set this poison pill into the bill to pretty much make it impossible to go back to the way things were.

If your main argument is that they are gov't employees...well get used to it. Almost ALL screeners have finished their one year probation and that means they are PERMANENT gov't employees now.

[This message has been edited by The Unknown Screener (edited 09-01-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
They are NOT impersonating ANYBODY.

This was part of the legislation that created this IDIOTIC agency in the first place.
</font>

Well, how bizarre!

Look my reason for posting all this about SFO is because I am still sitting with dropped jaw over the fact that these private contractors wear the exact same uniform (except for the writing on the back of the collar) as the "real" TSA.

As an example: Thanks to the old TV show, pretty much every one in North America knows what a California Highway Patrol officer looks like. Thus if you are broken down on one of our numerous asphalt deathtraps and a fellow who is dressed like Ponch or John comes over to you, you are more confident in him than if a guy dressed in a generic security guard costume offers assistance.

As it is we have way too many folks who aren't true LEO's or Sworn Officers wearing look-a-like costumes in the USA, indeed there are perhaps way too many police agencies in most metropolitan areas, but at least one can usually tell who is real and who is not in one's local area; i.e. I know what my town's police officers' uniform is, I know the county sherrif's and I know the CHP's (who are the state police here).

So I know that the guy at my bank is none of the above.

You like knowing that those pieces of paper with Ben Franklin or General Grant on them in your wallet are the real thing and have backing and confidence of the Feds. So would I and the same thing applies to a TSA Screener.

The ONLY difference between what you consider a "real" TSA Screener and an SFO screener is the paycheck.

I am sure there are bad apples in SFO. Just as I am CERTAIN that there are bad apples within the TSA.

How am I certain?

I have had items stolen from me by TSA Screeners in LAS.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
The ONLY difference between what you consider a "real" TSA Screener and an SFO screener is the paycheck.

I am sure there are bad apples in SFO. Just as I am CERTAIN that there are bad apples within the TSA.

How am I certain?

I have had items stolen from me by TSA Screeners in LAS.</font>

You actually witnessed the "alledged" theft ??

Probably more of the same BS you spread all over this forum. Real easy to place blame in a "virtual" world. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
You actually witnessed the "alledged" theft ??

Probably more of the same BS you spread all over this forum. Real easy to place blame in a "virtual" world. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif



</font>


Please cease the personal attacks.

--richard, moderator

I agree with Camera, their are bad apples in TSA. But there's not much that can be done enless they get caught or other employees see something and report it.

Problem is, there is bad apples in every job or company in the USA, its not a uncommon thing.

But no offense, before 9/11 stuff got stolen to, my mom had items taken from her checked bag about 5 years ago on a flight to Las Vegas. So you go around blaming TSA for everything.

...


[This message has been edited by Screener (edited 09-01-2003).]

I'd much prefer the airlines determine what should and should not be prohibited on board.

Most of the "contraband" that is now forbidden was put there by the current group of jackasses, as has the insane policies of shoe harassment and "random"/continuous harassment.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
I'd much prefer the airlines determine what should and should not be prohibited on board.

Most of the "contraband" that is now forbidden was put there by the current group of jackasses, as has the insane policies of shoe harassment and "random"/continuous harassment.
</font>

Indeed it was Spiff. Box-Cutters were allowed by the airlines before. Look where that got them.




------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

If I am not mistaken, the pre-9/11 list was created by the FAA.

It was a combination between the two with the airlines having final say over what went on THEIR aircraft. We have had our local station chief try to get things past us before to accomodate some "preferred" customer when we first started. He told us when we refused, that things were different when the "airlines" ran security and could get whatever they wanted onto "their" aircraft.

------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

I still swear if the people on all four planes knew what the 19 hijackers intended on 9/11, they would have done something more to stop them from doing so.

Most hijackings have never had such a loss of life. So if it happened now I dont think a box cutter would do much for a hijacker.

But yes the list was made by both Airlines and FAA and the airlines did always have the final call. Thats why GSC's were located in checkpoints, if something should come up and security needed them to make the call.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The Unknown Screener:
Indeed it was Spiff. Box-Cutters were allowed by the airlines before. Look where that got them.


</font>

Are you still under the delusion that box cutters caused 11 Sept? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

"Puff the magic dragon... lived by the sea..."

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:

Please cease the personal attacks.

--richard, moderator</font>

Is this policy new, or does it just pertain to TSA posters ? I've been "attacked" since my first post. "Goose-stepping Nazi's" comes to mind. And I guess "morons" is an exceptable term when referring to the TSA also ??

Nice double standard there Mr. Moderator. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Are you still under the delusion that box cutters caused 11 Sept? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
</font>


Are you still under the delusion that if no box cutters had been on hand that things would have been the same?

Puff away Spiff....


------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
I'd much prefer the airlines determine what should and should not be prohibited on board.

Most of the "contraband" that is now forbidden was put there by the current group of jackasses, as has the insane policies of shoe harassment and "random"/continuous harassment.
</font>

agree! had my corkscrew taken leaving SIN yesterday (but had 2 four pronged forks with my dinner) then got the "special" treatment at SFO for not taking off my shoes. what a total waste of time and money!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The Unknown Screener:

Are you still under the delusion that if no box cutters had been on hand that things would have been the same?

Puff away Spiff....


</font>

Yeah, you're right. It would have never happened with broken glass, sharp metal, a decent pen, or martial arts.

"People on 'ludes should not drive!"

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
the insane policies of shoe harassment </font>

Yeah, I'm sure that since Richard Reid was stupid enough to try to light the plastic explosive in his shoe in the main cabin in full view of other passengers (rather than in a rest room), that no one will ever try that explosive in the shoe thing again.

We can stop screening the shoes now folks. We have Spiff's assurance it won't happen again.

Djlawman

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
Is this policy new, or does it just pertain to TSA posters ? I've been "attacked" since my first post. "Goose-stepping Nazi's" comes to mind. And I guess "morons" is an exceptable term when referring to the TSA also ??

Nice double standard there Mr. Moderator. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

</font>


I don't think "you" have been personally attacked here.

I think the TSA was attacked. The "nazi" comment was made against the TSA in general, not against you personally.

That is entirely different from a personal attack.

This is nothing new and it makes FlyerTalk a more pleasent and interesting place.

--richard, moderator

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
[B] Yeah, you're right. It would have never happened with broken glass, sharp metal, a decent pen, or martial arts.[B]</font>

It "could" have, but it didn't happen that way. Pigs "could" fly too. Wait a minute, another one is revving up for takeoff outside...

"People on crack should not be passengers."



------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Djlawman:
Yeah, I'm sure that since Richard Reid was stupid enough to try to light the plastic explosive in his shoe in the main cabin in full view of other passengers (rather than in a rest room), that no one will ever try that explosive in the shoe thing again.

We can stop screening the shoes now folks. We have Spiff's assurance it won't happen again.

Djlawman</font>

Yes, you have Admiral Loy's assurance that shoes are the only place terrorists would ever hide explosives. Screen shoes and you're safe.

Bet your life on it.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The Unknown Screener:
It "could" have, but it didn't happen that way. Pigs "could" fly too. Wait a minute, another one is revving up for takeoff outside...

"People on crack should not be passengers."

</font>

Right...

And monkeys *could* fly out of my butt too.

We waste our time on the tools and not the root cause.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 09-03-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Right...

And monkeys *could* fly out of my butt too.

We waste our time on the tools and not the root cause.

</font>

Seems to me like the US government is putting quite a few resources into going after the root cause, too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CATSA Screener:
Seems to me like the US government is putting quite a few resources into going after the root cause, too.</font>

Trying to look like they are is all.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:

I don't think "you" have been personally attacked here.

I think the TSA was attacked. The "nazi" comment was made against the TSA in general, not against you personally.

That is entirely different from a personal attack.

This is nothing new and it makes FlyerTalk a more pleasent and interesting place.

--richard, moderator</font>

Well, last I looked, I wear a TSA uniform to work.

I won't argue the point, since we're referring to opinions here.

Solutions like stealing box cutters from people remind me of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe by Douglas Adams:

"... Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich."

Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed.

"But we have also," continued the Management Consultant, "run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship's peanut."

Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The Management Consultant waved them down.

"So in order to obviate this problem," he continued, "and effectively revaluate the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and ... er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances."

The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the Management Consultant a standing ovation. The accountants amongst them looked forward to a profitable Autumn."

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I do love that book. The entire series was awesome.

------------------
"All life is a concatenation of ephemeralities" - Alfred Kahn, American economist

I appreciate experienced hands establishing rules, monitoring execution and updating security procedures. This is what TSA should be and seems to be doing. The specific individual screener at each airport is probably fine being in a mixed (govt or private) employment mode. While private sector cannot be a solution to all efficiency and quality problems, we cannot blame "profit" for bad quality either. Profits could be made with better organization, innovative leadership, motivated teams, etc. not just by cutting wages and poor quality.

GE did not become the No.1 corporation in the world by cutting quality or paying poor wages - they showed leadership and innovation. Maybe the private TSA contractors can do more efficient load prediction and staff scheduling, they might work with airline pax loads to adapt staffing, they might bring in better procedure to speed up flow and cut down lines, they may increase passenger satisfaction by serviing with a smile, etc.

I am equally aware of the downside - lax security, local airport/airline/govt officials running roughshod over sane security policies, etc. We have to be open minded and not be dogmatic. It is time for the pendulum to swing to the middle and bring back some balance.

I also wanted to add that private contractors do a significant part of our military and security work. Lives of coalition soldiers in Iraq were protected by employees of "profit" making corporations that ran anti-missile systems and supported key logistics. It is a world of multiple colors, shades of grey - not simply a black and white world (neither is private TSA evil nor is exclusive govt TSA all show and no substance).

The tools that TSA use are also built by private companies and the lives of pax depend on the reliability of these tools as well.

The four inch rule was an FAA rule, not an airline rule. An airline could make the requirement less than four, but not more. It was posted on the FAA/CAS website as the maximum length for travel on US airliners. Remember, for the most part, the airlines come up with the rules and the FAA approves them. Safety briefings are not entirely uniform; however, they have to meet the FARs and include specific information, which is why the FAA has to approve it.

The private companies NEVER left.
Huntleigh Security part of ICTS International (not a US owned or operated company) still works security at ORD and other large airports. LOOK AT THE PATCH ON THEIR UNIFORMS.. They are at IAD-EWR-PVD-OKC
and numerous other USA airports.
They Own the APS- Advanced Passenger Screening System and Travel Doc- that verifies that travel documents are authentic
APIS solutions which handles Customs Documents..
According to the companies website:
They were "formed by select security experts, former military comanders, veterans of Government intelligence and security agencies, some of whom remain in the company today"

Isn't it great that passenger screening, travel document verification, and handling customs documents are done by a FOREIGN company..What kind of security is that ??

AND they control the concourse screening at major US airports plus AMS and some courses at CDG.

Like there are NO US COMPANIES AVAILABLE ??

ICTS (note the TS)international has a web site where this and MORE information is available.

Another countries intelligence service is involved with the USA airline passenger security and was BEFORE and AFTER 9-11 and with the approval of the US Congress.