Newsstand - While Terrorist Threat Grows, TSA Management Lives In Luxury...

...Fighting Terrorism At The Golf Resort

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc11.htm

"It's Not Success. It's Corruption. For all those TSA apologists, dig this. Right now, American air travelers are being gouged up to $10 for every trip they take to fund better security. But the TSA bureaucrats are effectively stealing it so they can stay at golf resorts and posh hotels. And spend it on no telling what other boondoggles. That's a success alright - but for the terrorists, because every dollar boondoggled by the TSA leaves us more vulnerable to the next attack."

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Just about what I expected, but with lots of details! Is anybody surprised?

Bruce

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Abuse of public funds is not news. What details? "Mohagony-stained door"? I'm shocked! That's nearly 5 bucks a quart!

This writer is Rush Limbaugh on a TSA riff, only less focused on facts. Read further on that same page where he says that the French tanker sank? It did not.

Yeah, probably TSA management stinks, but so does bombastic pseudo-journalism.

Given that we've known about Magaw's $100K sound system for quite some time, this is not news. But should it come as a surprise to anyone that execs abuse their privileges?

Ah well, it's nice to be king.

These execs draw their paychecks from the American public's taxes and fees, not private finance, or from stockholders! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
Given that we've known about Magaw's $100K sound system for quite some time, this is not news. But should it come as a surprise to anyone that execs abuse their privileges?

Ah well, it's nice to be king.</font>



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Dupe

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 11-04-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
These execs draw their paychecks from the American public's taxes and fees, not private finance, or from stockholders! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif</font>

I said it was wrong. There's a long list of government execs abusing their privileges -- remember the bounced checks at the Congressional credit union? So you'll excuse me if I don't blow a gasket.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mahjongguy:
Abuse of public funds is not news. What details? "Mohagony-stained door"? I'm shocked! That's nearly 5 bucks a quart!

This writer is Rush Limbaugh on a TSA riff, only less focused on facts. Read further on that same page where he says that the French tanker sank? It did not.

Yeah, probably TSA management stinks, but so does bombastic pseudo-journalism.</font>

That sums it up nicely. These aviationplanning.com pieces which are posted here from time to time by Spiff are, I suppose, interesting to read from the perspective that it's someone's take on the TSA and the state of flying today, but really nothing more. And the rhetoric like "apologists" or "random harrassment" instead of "random security checks" - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif - I don't waste the time or energy responding to those postings. I mean, it's good that there are people out there willing to rant and rave about how much they hate authority figures, law enforcement, the military, etc., but I'm afraid I'm mostly in the opposite camp.

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 11-04-2002).]

Here's an update on this old story:

March 12, 2003

Senators Probe Airport Recruiting Costs

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 7:04 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two senators want to know why the government paid for 20 recruiters to spend nearly two months at a luxury ski resort in Colorado to hire airport security screeners

Democratic Sens. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota and Ron Wyden of Oregon wrote to Transportation Security Administration chief James Loy on Wednesday asking why the Wyndham Peaks Resort and Golden Door Spa was chosen as a base to recruit screeners last year.

The resort boasts an 18-hole golf course, spectacular views, an indoor pool and fluffy robes.

The senators said an inspector general investigation is warranted.

TSA spokesman Brian Turmail said the resort, near Telluride, Colo., was chosen because it was the only one in the area that had the sophisticated telecommunications equipment that recruiters needed.

Cheaper hotels nearer Colorado's major airports were too far for some applicants to travel, he said.

``We wanted to keep them at a reasonable distance to give as many people as possible an opportunity to compete for these positions,'' Turmail said.

Dorgan said the choice of hotels was ``outrageous.''

``We spend precious taxpayer money here with the intention of making this a safer country and then we see 20 people spending seven weeks at a ski resort -- a spa -- to hire 50 people,'' Dorgan said.

The TSA in February 2002 contracted for NCS Pearson, a testing company based in Eden Prairie, Minn., to recruit, test and hire 56,000 airport screeners. A spokesman for the company declined comment Wednesday.

A TSA review of one NCS Pearson subcontractor found between one-third and one-half of $18 million in expenses could be attributed to wasteful and abusive spending practices, said Transport Department Inspector General Kenneth Mead.

Congress created the TSA after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks and ordered it to hire a federal work force at 429 airports to screen commercial airline passengers and their baggage by Dec. 31. The TSA grew from 11 employees in January 2002 to 64,000 a year later. Private companies hired and trained new workers.

The cost of the contract rose from $104 million to about $700 million, Mead told a congressional subcommittee in February. It was the TSA's poor control of some contractors that contributed to ``tremendous growth in contract costs,'' he said.

Turmail said it was hard to estimate how much it would cost to review 1.6 million applications to hire 56,000 people in less than a year because it had never been done.

Turmail said the TSA has withheld a significant amount of money because it has questions about some of the costs.

The TSA has hired a Defense Department agency to audit its contracts. It recently hired two companies to replace NCS Pearson, CPS of Sacramento, Calif., to hire new employees, and Bermuda-based Accenture -- formerly Andersen Consulting -- to do human resources work, Turmail said.

Wyden said they're sending a message to the TSA that it will be held accountable for its spending now that it's part of the Department of Homeland Security. The agency moved on March 1 from the Transportation Department.

President Bush nominated Clark Kent Ervin, the State Department's inspector general, for the same job at Homeland Security. Turmail said the TSA would cooperate with its new inspector general just as it cooperated with Mead.

One would be naive if one did not think or believe that people would not be thinking of themselves first and profiting immensely from the current security situation, especially given the fact the the politicians and the media are ensuring that the American public remains scared and nervous enough to give carte blanche to creating policies and spending millions of dollars pertaining to the appeasement of the American public with the apparent false illusion of "peace of mind."

I wonder how much money was spent on the colorful terror threat chart...

Just to add to my previous thought, this is akin to the New Jersey Turnpike Authority creating useless construction projects to ensure that a debt remains for that toll road. Supposedly, if the New Jersey Turnpike breaks even or makes money, the tolls must be eliminated. By keeping the debt intact, the New Jersey Turnpike Authority may still collect tolls.

In addition, if you look at a map of New Jersey, you will see that Interstate 95 veers into Pennsylvania and ends in the middle of nowhere just northwest of Trenton - it becomes Interstate 195, which heads east to the Jersey Shore. Interstate 95 does not begin again until Interstate 287/New Jersey State Route 440. This is the only unfinished portion of Interstate 95, and it is specifically to force people to take the New Jersey Turnpike north towards New York or south towards Baltimore.

Need I add that those in top management at the New Jersey Turnpike Authority easily earn 6-figure salaries?

Like all the grass-roots efforts found here in various forums, New Jersey 101.5, a radio station in central New Jersey, led a long and brutal campaign more than 10 years ago to eliminate tolls altogether from the New Jersey Turnpike. It failed. I suspect the reason is due to the fact that the New Jersey Turnpike Authority was too powerful politically.

I have not had a chance to do a search on this topic to provide links, but I lived about a mile from the headquarters of the New Jersey Turnpike Authority at that time.

So why should the topic of this thread surprise anyone?...

This is one of those stories that brian says is not based on facts, correct?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif



------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
This is one of those stories that brian says is not based on facts, correct?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

</font>

Ever notice heis missing on topics when there is even a smidgen of evidence that might contradict his slanted point of view.
Mike

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MIKESILV:
Ever notice heis missing on topics when there is even a smidgen of evidence that might contradict his slanted point of view.
Mike</font>

Least we forget, Brian's views aren't slanted, they are consistant with the vast majority of americans.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

rawbert


[This message has been edited by rawbert (edited 03-12-2003).]

Yes, Rawbert, that is right, they are. A shame for the gang here, but that's life.

And I am futher sorry to disappoint you by not being a one-dimensional cutout, but I no more approve of wasteful spending than you do. I am not jumping to any conclusions, but if the story is true, it is a good example of why I wanted security kept in the private sector to begin with. The public sector always adds bloat, waste, and inefficiency, since its "business" goals are never aligned with its customers, the public. But I lost, got over it, and moved on.

If it's true, then the GAO should sue for recovery, if they have grounds, or write better contracts, so that this stuff doesn't go on. But it does, every day, with contractors serving every branch of government.

Before I convict these people, though, a smidgen of evidence past a breathless story would be nice. Anyone see a rate quoted about what they paid? What methods they used in determining where to stay? What was included? I didn't, yet. All you constitutionalists out there might want to recall that little tenet we have about innocent until proven guilty. But certainly a full investigation is warranted.

As an aside, while it is fun to be the object of derision you require to whip yourselves into a righteous fury, I am fully capable of speaking for myself. And you do not accurately or adequately represent my views, so please don't make the attempt. All you need do is ask, and I will be happy to accurately portray them.

Incidentally, regarding my slanted point of view: All I am doing is trying to balance your own tilt with a bit of moderation and sense.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
These execs draw their paychecks from the American public's taxes and fees, not private finance, or from stockholders! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif



</font>

And I guess this doesn't go on in "any" other dept. of the gov. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
These execs draw their paychecks from the American public's taxes and fees, not private finance, or from stockholders! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif



</font>

And I guess this is the only dept. in the gov. that does this type of thing. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Sorry, trigger happy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My bad.

Thought I got rid of that guy.

Boy am I miffed...

Just completed a trip from SEA-LHR-BCN.

Like a fool...I thought that with all the security at airports I would pack my digi cam in my checked baggage..!

What a twat...I forgot that they now use scanners to make it easier to identify which bag to steal from.!...


Well if you are out there I hope you enjoy it you sad sad ba$tard.

You are a horrible person.

How long before one of these pond life scum suckers take a bribe from one of Osama's buddies and take a plane out...

Oh...and I pay extra for it..!...

TSA..........
Laughable....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">TSA spokesman Brian Turmail said the resort, near Telluride, Colo., was chosen because it was the only one in the area that had the sophisticated telecommunications equipment that recruiters needed.</font>

What the heck is this? I have a telecoms background.. What were they looking for? This is a bunch of BS to fools some poor senator who doesn't know any better. If they were looking for a high speed data circuit, and were looking to "camp out" for a few weeks they could have arranged this at nearly ANY property. Dial up access is not good enough for the TSA, when most local police departments use it for connections to do background checks, etc. The GAO should go through TSA expenses like a fine tooth comb.

[This message has been edited by NickP 1K (edited 03-12-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">All I am doing is trying to balance your own tilt with a bit of moderation and sense. </font>

(...snicker, snort .... )

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Hey Telluride *does* have an airport. Infact I think its a STOLport.
And Telluride itself is one of the remotest places in the lower 48, due to the topography and road network of Colorado.

Plus it has some *****in powder, dudes!

After lurking for a long,long,long time, I finally have to post!

The TSA has some sort of mobile force of TSA persons currently working many airports in Colorado. They are from all over the country and go to whatever airport will see an increase in passengers at a particular time of year. IE: ski area airports in winter, Nantucket in the summer.

Specifically at EGE the whole crew of TSA is staying over in Eagle at the Best Western with government credit cards for their $52 per day per diem. The hotel rooms alone, according to the hotel owner Glen, are costing 285k per month. There is ONE local guy working for TSA and he is also staying at the hotel, even though he lives there, because he can!

TSA did not hire or advertise jobs locally, according to people in the area, so what these clowns say they were doing in Telluride is of course a LIE!

My frustration is when will we finally say enough is enough of this waste of taxpayers money and do something about it?!

For the record I am a 16+ year airline employee, 2 airlines, 13 airports, for all the posts I read about TSA nonsense I could tell you 10 more horror stories. I have been keeping notes, photos and names just in case.

Happy flying......if you can get past the checkpoint!

If it is true, Brian? What the heck will it take for you to believe that it is true? This isn't a breaking news story. The receipts are in and the bills have been paid. Even the TSA's spokespuppet admits it took place although his excuses are some of the most assinine I have ever read. Of course, you only believe what you want to believe, everything else is in question.

I've nver been to Telluride but my experience with other ski areas is that they are not normally the most convenient areas to get to. Wouldn't it have been better to hold interviews in the city or near the airport these applicants would be working at? I'd be interested in hearing the number of people that were actually hired who are local to the Telluride area.



[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 03-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NickP 1K:
The GAO should go through TSA expenses like a fine tooth comb.</font>


This has already been done. You can find some details of their findings in Mead's statement from the Feb. 5 Aviation Hearing (http://www.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/2003204C05.html). Anyone who is concerned should at least read Loy and Mead's statements. Very interesting reading. Loy (http://commerce.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/loy020503.pdf) asking the airlines for 450 million more to meet his future budget needs and then Mead (http://commerce.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/mead020503.pdf) reading off the amounts that were squandered.

------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ferrari:
Boy am I miffed...

Just completed a trip from SEA-LHR-BCN.

Like a fool...I thought that with all the security at airports I would pack my digi cam in my checked baggage..!

What a twat...I forgot that they now use scanners to make it easier to identify which bag to steal from.!...


Well if you are out there I hope you enjoy it you sad sad ba$tard.

You are a horrible person.

How long before one of these pond life scum suckers take a bribe from one of Osama's buddies and take a plane out...

Oh...and I pay extra for it..!...

TSA..........
Laughable....

</font>

So you know for a fact that it was a TSA employee that stole your digi cam, even though your bag went thru about 10 to 15 other people's hands. You need to sell your formula to the police. No more theft, EVER !! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by attheairport:
I could tell you 10 more horror stories. I have been keeping notes, photos and names just in case.

Happy flying......if you can get past the checkpoint!</font>

I am almost afraid to know more http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Can you share some of these stories with us?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
So you know for a fact that it was a TSA employee that stole your digi cam, even though your bag went thru about 10 to 15 other people's hands. You need to sell your formula to the police. No more theft, EVER !! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

</font>

It is the TSA that DEMANDS that we not lock our luggage. Therefor, it is the TSA that is responible for the theft. PERIOD.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:

This has already been done. You can find some details of their findings in Mead's statement from the Feb. 5 Aviation Hearing (http://www.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/2003204C05.html). Anyone who is concerned should at least read Loy and Mead's statements. Very interesting reading. Loy (http://commerce.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/loy020503.pdf) asking the airlines for 450 million more to meet his future budget needs and then Mead (http://commerce.senate.gov/~commerce/press/03/mead020503.pdf) reading off the amounts that were squandered.

</font>

As I said in my post, the GAO should sue to recover the money from the private contractor if they can, and should write better contracts if they can't.

This is the crap that goes on every day in government, and is why I believe that as few functions as possible should be privatized. It is a pure misalignment of interests.

From the point of view of intellectual honesty, reserve equal fury for the 200 or 2000 other examples of the same waste that are going on every day, all over the government. This is no more a reason to disband the TSA than it is to disband any other government organization.

Brian,

As someone who worked in a fairly high position in the Social Security Administration for a decade, I can ASSURE you that this kind of waste does NOT occur throughout the government. And heads would roll if it did. E-mail me if you want to have a private discussion of this.

Bruce

Oh, I'm sorry! Let's just put our heads back into the sand and the problem will go away...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TSAguy:
And I guess this doesn't go on in "any" other dept. of the gov. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

</font>



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Oh, I'm sorry! Let's just put our heads back into the sand and the problem will go away...



</font>

Just like security in general, hmmm?

Takeawaysiccsors

So you know for a fact that it was a TSA employee that stole your digi cam, even though your bag went thru about 10 to 15 other people's hands. You need to sell your formula to the police. No more theft, EVER

Who knows...buy are you not the people responsible for Airport security...

Why do you only look at the flying public as the risk...start looking inside...

You obviously acknowledge that theft is rife in the airports airside operation...

How long before ONEof you smart cookies fiquue it out.!..?

Why don't you do something about it....

instead of just defending it...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian:
This is the crap that goes on every day in government, and is why I believe that as few functions as possible should be privatized. It is a pure misalignment of interests. </font>

I don't ever recall hearing that a government agency decided to use a ski resort to hire workers. Yes, there are abuses but I think this one pretty much takes the cake.


------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
I don't ever recall hearing that a government agency decided to use a ski resort to hire workers. Yes, there are abuses but I think this one pretty much takes the cake.


</font>

Not really. First of all, the abuse is by a contractor, not the government, which is guilty only of lax oversight, if in fact the rates they paid were excessive, which no one yet has any information on. But it may well be true that they did. A shame.

$400 hammers in the military, pork barrel highway projects in certain jurisdictions to have important bills released from being held hostage, et al. It goes on every day. It's wrong, it's endemic, but TSA/DHS is just one piece of a large puzzle, unless they are the only piece you are interested in seeing.

And don't forget how quickly the TSA management was back at the Congressional Trough, begging for more money since they had squandered the first round of funding. Even the other wasteful government agencies at least have the common sense to not request 'interim squanderable resources'... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
I don't ever recall hearing that a government agency decided to use a ski resort to hire workers. Yes, there are abuses but I think this one pretty much takes the cake.


</font>



------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ferrari:


Who knows...buy are you not the people responsible for Airport security...

Why do you only look at the flying public as the risk...start looking inside...

You obviously acknowledge that theft is rife in the airports airside operation...

How long before ONEof you smart cookies fiquue it out.!..?

Why don't you do something about it....

instead of just defending it...

</font>

Our job is to take sharp pointy objects from you. We are not the digi cam police.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian:
Not really. First of all, the abuse is by a contractor, not the government, which is guilty only of lax oversight, if in fact the rates they paid were excessive, which no one yet has any information on. But it may well be true that they did. A shame.

$400 hammers in the military, pork barrel highway projects in certain jurisdictions to have important bills released from being held hostage, et al. It goes on every day. It's wrong, it's endemic, but TSA/DHS is just one piece of a large puzzle, unless they are the only piece you are interested in seeing.</font>

NCS Pearson overshot their contract by close to 600 million in less than a year 9probably less than 8 months actually). I know all about $400 dollar hammers. I worked for the DOD and shared office space with the purchasing agent at the DC Armory. I saw a lot of expenditures but at least with those, even the $400 hammer, you ended up with something to show for it and they weren't bought while drinking a hot buttered rum in a ski lodge.

We've all heard the stories about what was stored in the depths of the Pentagon. That wasn't necessarily the result of excessive spending alone, but also in how government contracts are manipulated. It reminded me of a game show as I watched it happen. It was very easy to "tag along" if someone else was buying something, even if you didn't need it at the moment, than it was to initiate the request on your own later on.


------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
And don't forget how quickly the TSA management was back at the Congressional Trough, begging for more money since they had squandered the first round of funding. Even the other wasteful government agencies at least have the common sense to not request 'interim squanderable resources'... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif



</font>

I can't count the number of times I have posted links to those statements but people like, Brian, refuse to take the time to actually read them. It is much easier to discount all the reports and stories, based on the actual facts themselves, as possibly not true, than it is to go and search for the truth yourself as I did.

The proof is available Brian, the audits are in, the numbers speak for themselves. This isn't just a case of "lax" management. Regardless of whether the abuse was by a contractor or not, I would hope that someone might do something when they went 1 million over budget. Government contracts need oversight and there was none in place for those the TSA initiated. Not to mention that this one in particular was written without any control of budgets. This contractor went 600 million over. The worse part is, they didn't even manage to do what they were contracted to do! The TSA is now faced with paying another contractor to put records in order that were not kept to the standards required while NCS was in charge.

------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 03-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
Our job is to take sharp pointy objects from you. We are not the digi cam police.

</font>


We are doing something about it. Many of us our writing letters to the media and to our congressmen and to the airlines and airport managers. Hopefully they will listen and you will be out of a job soon http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:

We are doing something about it. Many of us our writing letters to the media and to our congressmen and to the airlines and airport managers. Hopefully they will listen and you will be out of a job soon http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

</font>


Unlikely.

But they may get better scrutiny of their spending. I am totaly okay with that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Our job is to take sharp pointy objects from you. We are not the digi cam police.

Is this not the sort of reply you would expect from a min wage worker.!...

And these highly intelligent persons are responsible for our saftey....Please...!...

We will have to wait sadly until another terrorist attack on an airplane or in an airport before someone wakes up to the uneducated morens in the TSA.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ferrari:
Is this not the sort of reply you would expect from a min wage worker.!...

And these highly intelligent persons are responsible for our saftey....Please...!...

We will have to wait sadly until another terrorist attack on an airplane or in an airport before someone wakes up to the uneducated morens in the TSA.</font>

As opposed to the "morens" that just can't spell?

Posts like this are simply embarrassing and juvenile, and do not further the conversation.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Hopefully they will listen and you will be out of a job soon http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

</font>

Why Tazi, I'm hurt. You would put me out of work ? What have I done to you to deserve this kind of cruelty ? What about my family ? How shall I feed my children ?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
Why Tazi, I'm hurt. You would put me out of work ? What have I done to you to deserve this kind of cruelty ? What about my family ? How shall I feed my children ?

</font>

Uhh, perhaps getting a different job? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Perhaps returning to whatever you did before you went to work for Norm Mineta (now Adm Loy)? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'd gladly put all 65,000 on welfare if it meant an end to the foolishness. Small price to pay for freedom. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My street needs sweeping - perhaps the TSA could take on that responsibility.

"The world needs ditchdiggers, too."

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ferrari:
Our job is to take sharp pointy objects from you. We are not the digi cam police.

Is this not the sort of reply you would expect from a min wage worker.!...

And these highly intelligent persons are responsible for our saftey....Please...!...

We will have to wait sadly until another terrorist attack on an airplane or in an airport before someone wakes up to the uneducated morens in the TSA.</font>

1st of all, my reply was in jest.

I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Your camera could have been stolen by a TSA employee (which is doubtful). It was more likely taken by someone else. TSA are not the police.

BTW, according to Spiff, you'll never have to worry about a terrorist attack by plane, ever again.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FWAAA:
My street needs sweeping - perhaps the TSA could take on that responsibility.
</font>

That sounds like a job for... (Ta daaa!) the...

Terrific Sweeping Agency



[This message has been edited by xyzzy (edited 03-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:

BTW, according to Spiff, you'll never have to worry about a terrorist attack by plane, ever again.

</font>

And just as likely, whether we ever experience another attack like September 11 has very little relationship to the existence (or extinction) of your agency.

Now, if the TSA were actually doing something productive (as opposed to taking away scissors, for instance), that would be a different story...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FWAAA:
Uhh, perhaps getting a different job? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Perhaps returning to whatever you did before you went to work for Norm Mineta (now Adm Loy)? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'd gladly put all 65,000 on welfare if it meant an end to the foolishness. Small price to pay for freedom. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My street needs sweeping - perhaps the TSA could take on that responsibility.

"The world needs ditchdiggers, too."</font>

Thanks for your help, I'll keep that in mind.

Just so you'll know, I was laid-off from a job of 11yrs, due directly to the 9/11 attack. I'd go back in a heartbeat, but unfortunatly there is nothing to go back to.

It all makes sense to me now after reading all the posts in this thread.

With all the excessive and unaccountable non-discretionary spending with which government employees and agencies are apparently allowed to do, I just realized that I found the ideal high-revenue customers for which Delta and the other airlines are searching.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
Why Tazi, I'm hurt. You would put me out of work ? What have I done to you to deserve this kind of cruelty ? What about my family ? How shall I feed my children ?

</font>


Regardless of what you may think, I actually to have concern for screeners. You were all hired under false pretenses and aren't even subject to the protection that most government employees are. I was very surprised to see, included in the actual text of the legislation that created your agency, the mandate that those hired be always under the supervision of a person who could fire them. Considering the lack of defintion with most other areas covered (actual security), I was very surpirsed to see this spelled out in such exact terms. I'm a bit tired now but I will provide you with the actual text tomorrow if requested. Or, you can find it yourself. It is public law ... for now

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

You'll never have to worry about a terrorist attack by plane because the passengers have pointy objects or pool cues or cricket bats. These are not credible weapons to hijack an airplane and should not be the focus of the TSA's attention.

You WILL have to worry about another terrorist attack on, near or by an airplane because the TSA is so focused on the Great Pointy Object Search and the Shoes Are the Only Place Terrorists Hide Explosives theory that there are gaping holes elsewhere in the "security" they provide. It is highly probable that some time when the idiot TSA leaders decide to evacuate an airport terminal because someone might have slipped by with a pair of scissors that a terrorist will detonate an explosive device in the densely-packed crowd of people that has been cleared out of the "unsterile" terminal.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TakeScissorsAway:
BTW, according to Spiff, you'll never have to worry about a terrorist attack by plane, ever again.

</font>



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Exactly!

There is no reason to hang another financial albatross around the US Economy by paying 65,000 people to do a job that could be done by a fraction of the size of that workforce, if its management had even an inkling of a clue about security.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FWAAA:
Uhh, perhaps getting a different job? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Perhaps returning to whatever you did before you went to work for Norm Mineta (now Adm Loy)? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'd gladly put all 65,000 on welfare if it meant an end to the foolishness. Small price to pay for freedom. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My street needs sweeping - perhaps the TSA could take on that responsibility.

"The world needs ditchdiggers, too."</font>



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Having visited with my company Miltary and other government installations that NEED TIGHT security, I can truly say the TSA *IS* proportional to the service needed "Thousands Standing Around"

If a secure defence installation can provide excellent security with less people than ONE TSA based airport.... well you figure it out.

Also if according to the TSA - the resorts were close to the populace they wanted to recruit, why not get a meeting room at the resort in questions... Then make all the recruiters commute in from a much cheaper property. Even if the resort gave a concession room rate for using meeting space I would assume it *STILL* would have been much more expensive than a room at a holiday inn, etc.

[This message has been edited by NickP 1K (edited 03-14-2003).]

Minor comment on the tangential issue of $400 hammers mentioned by a couple of people: Those $400 hammers were used to hide so-called "black budget" expenditures, for reconaissance satellites and things like that. People in the know always realized that hammers don't cost $400. Brian, as a member of the news media, you should know better than to bring up this red herring.

Bruce

Bruce, I don't know how much clearer I can be on this. I don't support waste, but I do support security. The two are only tangentially related.

Where there was waste, fire those who caused it. Write better contracts, Sue subcontractors.

But it isn't intellectually honest to pretend that this problem is unique to the TSA, or reason for it to be disbanded.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FWAAA:
"The world needs ditchdiggers, too."</font>

What say we go get a Fresca. Hmm, hmm, hmm?

Brian,

You are confusing me with someone else, I believe.

I never said that the TSA is the only wasteful agency, although this particular example is obviously egregious. I will be eagerly following the government's response, which will be more illuminating than the original event.

Also, I never suggested that waste was a rationale for disbanding the TSA. Ineffectiveness would be a good rationale, but we aren't really there -- yet! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Bruce

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian:

But it isn't intellectually honest to pretend that this problem is unique to the TSA, or reason for it to be disbanded. </font>

I have to agree with you Brian on this. There are far better reasons this organization should be dis-banded, and the least of them is waste.

rawbert

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rawbert:
I have to agree with you Brian on this. There are far better reasons this organization should be dis-banded, and the least of them is waste.

rawbert</font>

I'll drink to that! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif



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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
I'll drink to that! &lt;IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif"&gt;

</font>

Well, you kids go have a pop, cause the TSA isn't going anywhere.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Brian:
Well, you kids go have a pop, cause the TSA isn't going anywhere. </font>

So much for a truce. Enjoy your life in Candyland. I am sure it looks wonderous through those rose-colored glasses you wear.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 03-14-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ferrari:
Our job is to take sharp pointy objects from you. We are not the digi cam police.

Is this not the sort of reply you would expect from a min wage worker.!...

And these highly intelligent persons are responsible for our saftey....Please...!...

We will have to wait sadly until another terrorist attack on an airplane or in an airport before someone wakes up to the uneducated morens in the TSA.</font>

I think you meant to spell MORONS. I guess education, like class, is subjective. Hate the game, but not the player.

enough please. Back to the topic, no personal comments on fellow FlyerTalkers.

--richard, moderator

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:

I've nver been to Telluride but my experience with other ski areas is that they are not normally the most convenient areas to get to.


[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 03-13-2003).]</font>

Link to a Mapquest of Telluride. Note that the eastern border of Duray County is a very impressive and beautiful mountain range.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?size=big&mapdata=hP0urGiog%2bfeLv%2fu74R1EWZuUtc%2frPfV7veg 473FxHayf6DQlYYRUT3U3wWIx5S6%2bRDQt05lr6a6SSmGFmoc LFmc51FGw3CBAX1yfMkjF6V6%2fQoyWgoQ c1MVMnRk14OsV9pOYJHzifjruIaH80A3vgS448aIcK2OoEvnJ8 E7x6p7EdeldLZH178XPLBKILlfO%2bqmh70jP84D9Vbm%2bTht 1hBY%2fdRZzT3tKgIkD395wmv4Kt6ByxP45Ip8mkR5RGPYkmle 2ds1072BuJsL0w3J1Td%2fDzkj1%2b 9SUF1Mvp73w1U%3d

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:
Back to the topic, no personal comments on fellow FlyerTalkers.

--richard, moderator</font>

LOL........a joke, right ???

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:
Back to the topic, no personal comments on fellow FlyerTalkers.

--richard, moderator</font>

LOL....... a joke, right ??

Rocky Mountain News Article (http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_1932237,00.html)

Telluride recruiting trip draws scrutiny

"Sen. Byron Dorgan, a North Dakota Democrat, says taxpayers got ripped off and the Department of Transportation says the TSA showed a "lack of management oversight".

And that's exactly why Loy and Mineta should be tossed out on their @$$es. Absolutely no management or security ability whatsoever. Punks.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Spiff, you are funny..... Punks!!! LOL