airbus320
Apr 29, 03, 8:05 pm
I did a search and could not find a trace of this interesting study.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C1A662364
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C1A662364
Newsstand - Is Boeing getting out of the passenger jet business?
View Full Version : Is Boeing getting out of the passenger jet business?
Tango
Apr 29, 03, 8:41 pm
The bean counters from Douglas(that moved over to Boeing) think their is more profit in the space and military side of the business. What is going on right now with Boeing is exactly what Douglas went through before Boeing bought out Douglas.
kb0fhp
Apr 29, 03, 10:21 pm
Having worked at Uncle Sandy's Confetti Factory (McDonnell Douglas) for 12 yrs before Boeing bought it. I worked for the figther aircraft side in STL - We struggled with Douglas. Never once did they make money for McDonnell Douglas. They were a drain on the bottom line. We dictated terms to Douglas.
When Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, the situation was reversed (sort of). In this case there was Boeing, lying to the stockholders about how solvent they were, and how things were going finacially when they bought McDonnell Douglas. History has repeated itself. The old McDonnell AIrcraft, responsible for the F4, AV8B, F/A-18, and F-15 is again supporting a commercial aircraft manufacturer.
Unfortunately, Boeing Commerical Aircraft is dictating terms. As The Who said.... "Meet the new boss - same as the old boss..... We won't get fooled again!"
When Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, the situation was reversed (sort of). In this case there was Boeing, lying to the stockholders about how solvent they were, and how things were going finacially when they bought McDonnell Douglas. History has repeated itself. The old McDonnell AIrcraft, responsible for the F4, AV8B, F/A-18, and F-15 is again supporting a commercial aircraft manufacturer.
Unfortunately, Boeing Commerical Aircraft is dictating terms. As The Who said.... "Meet the new boss - same as the old boss..... We won't get fooled again!"
SEA_Tigger
Apr 30, 03, 10:21 am
All things considered, I think buying MD was a good choice, as it provided important diversification to Boeing that is now helping with the commercial aircraft downturn.
But I believe Stonecipher and Co. are wrong and that Boeing not launching the 7E7 will be a serious mistake that will, over time, hand the commercial aircraft market to Airbus.
I think the 7E7 could be a powerful weapon in Boeing's arsenal. Cutting 757/767 operating costs by 25% is a compelling argument. It would be a solid performer on Trans-Atlantic and South American routes compared to 767-300ERs and a solid choice for routes that cannot justify 777 passenger loads.
I imagine the 757 program is not long for the world as a stretched 737-900 can carry 200 passengers at lower operating costs.
The 767 program is also essentially dead, though I am confident the KC-767 program will roll (or, Boeing can do a KC-7E7 program and use it to fund the passenger version, just as the KC-135 program helped fund 707 development).
The 757/767 are twenty-five year old designs and they show it. Depending on "refreshing" them once again is a mistake compared to the more modern Airbus models they compete against.
But when they launched in the early 1980's, they provided a very powerful combination for airlines. The 777/7E7 would do the same.
Boeing purchased Hughes and Rockwell to boost their space business, and McDonnell-Douglas to improve military. While space has been a basket case, military has been benefitting the bottom line and now commericial is less than 50% of income, down from 80% only a decade ago.
The F-15 fighter suffers from being extremely expensive compared to less-capable aircraft like the Lockheed-Martin F-16, which is why most sales contracts are going to the 16. The US was able to browbeat South Korea into taking 40 F-15Ks, so that will keep the STL line rolling for years, but I do think that the F-15 line will probably be closed by 2010 due to lack of sales.
The FA-18E/F "SuperHornet" program will most likely provide the platform for the replacement of the EA-6B Prowler ECM aircraft with the the EA-18. This will keep that line running for a bit, as well. And Boeing will build 35% or so of every FA-22 Raptor that comes off the line.
Losing the JSF contract will essentially end Boeing's playing in the manned fighter business. However, the FA-35 will be the last manned fighter the US produces, and Boeing's work on the X-45 UCAV will probably give them the edge when it comes time to start replacing manned fighters in the 2025 timeframe.
The C-17 seems to be a solid performer, and the USAF will be adding some 70 extra planes. With EADS/Airbus having problems with the A-400 program, Boeing may yet see limited C-17 sales or leases to the RAF.
[Edited for spelling]
[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 04-30-2003).]
But I believe Stonecipher and Co. are wrong and that Boeing not launching the 7E7 will be a serious mistake that will, over time, hand the commercial aircraft market to Airbus.
I think the 7E7 could be a powerful weapon in Boeing's arsenal. Cutting 757/767 operating costs by 25% is a compelling argument. It would be a solid performer on Trans-Atlantic and South American routes compared to 767-300ERs and a solid choice for routes that cannot justify 777 passenger loads.
I imagine the 757 program is not long for the world as a stretched 737-900 can carry 200 passengers at lower operating costs.
The 767 program is also essentially dead, though I am confident the KC-767 program will roll (or, Boeing can do a KC-7E7 program and use it to fund the passenger version, just as the KC-135 program helped fund 707 development).
The 757/767 are twenty-five year old designs and they show it. Depending on "refreshing" them once again is a mistake compared to the more modern Airbus models they compete against.
But when they launched in the early 1980's, they provided a very powerful combination for airlines. The 777/7E7 would do the same.
Boeing purchased Hughes and Rockwell to boost their space business, and McDonnell-Douglas to improve military. While space has been a basket case, military has been benefitting the bottom line and now commericial is less than 50% of income, down from 80% only a decade ago.
The F-15 fighter suffers from being extremely expensive compared to less-capable aircraft like the Lockheed-Martin F-16, which is why most sales contracts are going to the 16. The US was able to browbeat South Korea into taking 40 F-15Ks, so that will keep the STL line rolling for years, but I do think that the F-15 line will probably be closed by 2010 due to lack of sales.
The FA-18E/F "SuperHornet" program will most likely provide the platform for the replacement of the EA-6B Prowler ECM aircraft with the the EA-18. This will keep that line running for a bit, as well. And Boeing will build 35% or so of every FA-22 Raptor that comes off the line.
Losing the JSF contract will essentially end Boeing's playing in the manned fighter business. However, the FA-35 will be the last manned fighter the US produces, and Boeing's work on the X-45 UCAV will probably give them the edge when it comes time to start replacing manned fighters in the 2025 timeframe.
The C-17 seems to be a solid performer, and the USAF will be adding some 70 extra planes. With EADS/Airbus having problems with the A-400 program, Boeing may yet see limited C-17 sales or leases to the RAF.
[Edited for spelling]
[This message has been edited by SEA_Tigger (edited 04-30-2003).]