Newsstand - New JFK Airtrain, still in testing, derails - operator killed

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/27/nyregion/27WIRE-TRAIN.html

Scary stuff.

Very sad

Update on cause/investigation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/29/nyregion/29TRAI.html

I have to say, that when I read the first tragic report I wondered what moron came up with the idea to have concrete blocks placed in the cars.

You don't have to be an engineer to know what happens if the train stops short for any reason - not something completely unforseeable in a testing situation.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BeantownFlyer:
I have to say, that when I read the first tragic report I wondered what moron came up with the idea to have concrete blocks placed in the cars.

You don't have to be an engineer to know what happens if the train stops short for any reason - not something completely unforseeable in a testing situation.</font>

I have to agree. What kind of stupid idiot moron would think 1,000 lb blocks of concrete resting on plywood flooring would be appropriate for this kind of test?

Unless the idea belonged to the test driver, someone needs to go to prison.

Bombardier's reputation must be hurting, with this accident in addition to all of the recent Acela problems.

Where's the next shoe going to drop? The CRJ??

From today's New York Times:

QUEENS: AIRTRAIN DELAYED INDEFINITELY The opening of Kennedy International Airport's AirTrain, the $1.9 billion link between the airport's terminals and city subways and rail lines, has been postponed indefinitely since a derailment that killed a train operator in September, officials said. The train had been scheduled to connect the airport terminals to one another and to Howard Beach by the end of the year, and to extend by the middle of next year to the Jamaica Long Island Rail Road station. But the Port Authority of New York and Jersey and the train's builders, a consortium led by Bombardier Transportation, which is based in Montreal, have not resumed testing since the derailment and have not scheduled a target date for a new opening, said Pasquale DiFulco, an agency spokesman. He said the agency was awaiting results of its own investigation and one by the National Transportation Safety Board.

What did they expect running the thing 2x as fast as it was supposed to go around a turn (~50 vs. the 25mph speed limit) ... now it's 2 months later and they've started pointing fingers trying to figure out what went wrong?!?! Isn't it obvious? I fail to see why this should hold things up "indefinitely."

I agree. This is silly. There is no evidence that the AirTrain is defective in any way. They should start operating it.

They don't ground all planes after a crash. Or stop all cars after an accident. Let's keep moving forward.

Bruce

They should have just saved our money in the first place. Who builds public transportation to the airport that doesn't even connect with the largest population center?

d

That's not quite fair. You can get where you need to go from Jamaica Station on the LIRR or even various subway lines. It's not ideal, but it's better than what we have today.

Bruce

The train in MSP also crashed during testing...nobody was hurt though...this train is much like the DTW tram, except it runs outside the terminal building...it just runs in a straight line from terminal A to the end which I think is terminal C.

I have not seen the MSP train, but the JFK version seems like a much bigger deal. It's a mostly elevated light-rail line that does a ring around the main terminals, then goes a couple of miles (at least) to the subway station nearest the airport (Howard Beach on the A line). Eventually, a second extension will go to the Jamaica Station of the Long Island railroad. The airport stations look like they are basically ready to begin operations. The only hold-up is the reaction (or over-reaction) to the crash.

Bruce

The AirTrain in SFO also crashed during test - totaling one of the cars.

I understand that's why they are still not in service.

birdstrike

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
That's not quite fair. You can get where you need to go from Jamaica Station on the LIRR or even various subway lines. It's not ideal, but it's better than what we have today.

Bruce</font>

The only real benefit for me is that I'll be able to take it from the subway to the terminal, rather than using the long-term parking buses. That's going to be nice, but not as nice as if we had put some real thought into it and had it go directly to Manhattan.

Taking the subway to Jamaica isn't that great, and taking the subway to Penn Station to take the LIRR to Jamaica to take the AirTrain is also not that great. Taking the subway to Penn or Grand Central stations, or something similar to the AirTrain directly - that'd be great.

As it stands, I'm not going to save any time, it's going to be marginally better, and it's going to cost a lot of money.

d

I often travel from JFK to Penn Station (where I get a NJ Transit train to Princeton). When AirTrain is extended to Jamaica, I'll be able to get on the LIRR there and ride non-stop to Penn in something like 15 minutes. That's pretty impressive to me. As I said, it's not ideal, but it will be a big improvement.

Bruce

(deleted)

[This message has been edited by Doppy (edited 11-26-2002).]