Newsstand - Airport security here manhandles 4-year-old in search, mom claims

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/9_18_02security.html

"A 4-year-old boy recently was pinned to the floor at Tucson International Airport for a search, raising questions about how airport security is handled and who is accountable for the guards' conduct."

That will teach the kid a lesson! How dare he not voluntarily go to a thug, er screener?

"Eventually, the guards chose to screen Bleecker instead of her son and both were allowed to board."

And we continue this nonsense... why?


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 09-25-2002).]

Unbelievable. The TSA hits just keep on comin'!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsdown.gif

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"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
---Dr. Rumack

Unbelievable!

Welcome to the new age of security. Brought to you by Bush, Ashcroft and Ridge.

Don't ya just love it.

Not clear here whether it's TSA staff or some version of Argenbrights ... the last paragraph suggests it was private guards:

"The agency does not track the number or nature of complaints filed about security in airports, and spokesman David Steigman said only the security company would have those numbers."

Of course, a big part of the problem is that the TSA doesn't answer to the public whatsoever. Bush's 'war terrorism' makes such nonsense terribly convenient, and terribly difficult to prove ... since the government either won't record the data or won't make it public.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gordon is A Liar:
Welcome to the new age of security. Brought to you by Bush, Ashcroft and Ridge.</font>

No, the Republicans and particularly the administration wanted to continue with private screeners.

The TSA was brought to you by Congress and it was the Democrats original idea to nationalize security.

They told us we couldn't trust private firms to do the screening; I guess they were worried there wouldn't be enough children being battered and innocent people being arrested by the private firms.

d

My 3 year old great-niece was "randomly chosen" to be searched returning from A trip to Disney in Florida.She was fast asleep in her grandma's arms-didn't matter-complete search including removal of shoes & scooby doo back-pack.

All they really needed to do was to secure the cockpits...unconditionally. How many planes would be hyjacked if people knew there was no way in hell that they would gain access to the cockpit no matter how many passengers they killed?

Tazi, you got that right!

Truly a simple solution!

How about some video cameras at every screening station....that would stop a lot of this or least hold some people accountable....or is that too logical for the TSA?

That's a very good idea. It would put both passengers and screeners on their best behavior. Better for everyone!

Bruce

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gordon is A Liar:
Welcome to the new age of security. Brought to you by Bush, Ashcroft and Ridge.
</font>

You must have already forgotten the quote by Tom Daschle: "You don't professionalize unless you federalize."

I don't know about this TSA-bashing.

My experience at the UA piers I most frequently see:

In Boston, before federalization (Huntleigh)
I got rude, slow, and incompetent service, with
a wand search almost every time; after,
it's been unfailingly polite, reasonably
speedy, never a wand, and I hope I never get
to find out whether they're incompetent.

In Baltimore, before TSA: polite and slow,
with a wand search every single time except
for the time I came in with a companion, and
she got the search; after: polite, almost
friendly, fairly speedy, and no kind of
secondary (entrance or gate) ever.

Don't know precisely what this means, but
there it is.

Polite or surly, it really just doesn't matter when I'm being harassed. As long as the TSA continues to randomly harass passengers without probable cause, they deserve all the bashing they get and more.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I really wonder about this. It was probably the kid throwing a screaming, flailing tantrum and the parent is saying it was something else.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by misstree:
I really wonder about this. It was probably the kid throwing a screaming, flailing tantrum and the parent is saying it was something else.</font>

Yes, I can see that happening - it's probably easier to bash the government employees than to face your own faults, and those of your family.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by misstree:
I really wonder about this. It was probably the kid throwing a screaming, flailing tantrum and the parent is saying it was something else.</font>

I seriously doubt it would have made headlines if this were the case. The kid may have been doing just that because the sceeners grabbed him.

Ah, yes. More bashing of the TSA. And, once again, guess what? From what the article says, the TSA wasn't involved.

It's a **** good thing that folks here weren't involved in picking targets in Afghanistan. The collateral damage would have been a hell of a lot worse that it was.

The TSA folks I have dealt with have been professional, courteous, and polite. They are much better than the six buck an hour maroons we used to have.

Oh, sure, we'll have the whiners complaining about how not enough of them are of this that or the other ethnicity or gender, and we'll have the "you're violating my rights" crowd still screaming when the courts have already held that's not the case.

But either way, you better get used to it. Cause it's staying.

I think what we all mean is to use common sense,my invalid mother was randomly checked,including taking of leg brace from her paralyzed foot,she is 60 years old traveling with my father,a member of the clergy,not the mUSLIM CLERGY,and to pester her which was very difficult and uncomfortable,is ludicrous.As long as these goons continue to do these totally ineffective searches the bashing will continue.Makes as much sense as the retired cheif of staff from Israel was denied entry cause he was born in Iran

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
I seriously doubt it would have made headlines if this were the case. The kid may have been doing just that because the sceeners grabbed him.

</font>

Actually, if someone grabs my child I hope they scream also.

Unless a child is committing a crime, or about to hurt themselves or others, no one should grab a child they do not know.

And if someone pinned my child down on the ground, there would be alot more written up as I would have taught, to at least that screener, some manners.

I also wonder why there is not cameras installed as this would end the "who do you believe" stories. But the flip side to that is maybe the TSA is worried that people are really telling the truth as they are the ones who could easily solve this problem.

Screaming tantrums thrown by small children often involve the use of small teeth. Would they arrest a kid if he/she bit the *security* goon? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by flowerchild (edited 09-28-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
Ah, yes. More bashing of the TSA. And, once again, guess what? From what the article says, the TSA wasn't involved.

It's a **** good thing that folks here weren't involved in picking targets in Afghanistan. The collateral damage would have been a hell of a lot worse that it was.

The TSA folks I have dealt with have been professional, courteous, and polite. They are much better than the six buck an hour maroons we used to have.

Oh, sure, we'll have the whiners complaining about how not enough of them are of this that or the other ethnicity or gender, and we'll have the "you're violating my rights" crowd still screaming when the courts have already held that's not the case.

But either way, you better get used to it. Cause it's staying.</font>

Could not have said it better,

well, I could have but it would be too much work http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

For my money, things are better than under the old system - now expect to see me in the news next week being arrested or something and then perhaps my opinon will change http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Sorry Folks got to get on my Libertarian soapbox here regarding blame for TSA. Remember all the furor over who got more votes Gore or Bush? Well the REAL winner with over 50% was "I don't Care! Whomever you pick is OK with me" We got the government we deserve people. And I'll bet you that a great many of the ones who gripe about TSA & Argenbright were not within 100 yards of a voting booth much less in one! When enough of you remember that the government derives it's power from the citizens not the other way around, only then will we see the silliness of the TSA and the restrictions on our personal freedom and liberty removed. I'll close with this quote "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing"

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
Ah, yes. More bashing of the TSA. </font>

I guess I don't see this as a matter of TSA bashing at all. It's an incident that does provoke some questioning as to what procedures these security people (TSA or otherwise) are trained to follow. I have no problem with them wanting to search the 4 year old, only with how they went about it. If it is standard procedure to take a 4 year old from their mother, kicking and screening, to be searched, then that procedure needs to be changed.

I am new here but I have noticed that anytime one of these topics comes up, it seems the real issue is lost in an obviously ongoing debate among people here that are either for or against the TSA.

Frankly, it doesn't make a **** bit of difference one way or the other. It's here to stay and those who fly have to deal with it. It's also a very new system with some obvious problems and there is no reason why they can't be discussed without turning it into a bickering contest about the TSA.

Please note, my comments are not targeted at any individual, only as an observation of the direction this thread has taken.

[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 09-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 09-29-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
That's a very good idea. It would put both passengers and screeners on their best behavior. Better for everyone!

Bruce</font>

Nobody seemed to like that. Much easier to just squabble here....;(

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:

Oh, sure, we'll have the whiners complaining about how not enough of them are of this that or the other ethnicity or gender, and we'll have the "you're violating my rights" crowd still screaming when the courts have already held that's not the case.

But either way, you better get used to it. Cause it's staying.</font>

Someone page me? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif