Newsstand - 9/11 doesn't excuse airlines' bad business decisions

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20020927/4488561s.htm

"When airline executives pleaded for help from U.S. taxpayers to cover extraordinary losses after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, they had a strong case. Curtailed flights and plummeting passenger traffic walloped an industry already losing money. Congress responded with $5 billion in cash and another $10 billion in loan guarantees."

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 09-27-2002).]

From the article:

"And while beefed-up security will cost more, the safety improvements benefit airlines by encouraging passengers to fly again."

Yeah, sure. I believe that "beefed-up security" is driving away at least as many passengers as it is "encouraging."

Bruce

Also from the article:

"If US Airways, now in bankruptcy court, had labor costs as low as super-efficient Southwest, it would have turned a profit in the second quarter of this year, according to an analysis by Standard and Poor's."

"The airlines raise a legitimate point: They shouldn't have to pay for all of the security required by the government. For example, free first-class seats for air marshals will cost airlines $210 million a year, Delta claims."

Easy fix: keep the marshals the hell out of the premium cabin or better yet, just scrap the useless program. Let the FAs enforce the no-pee rule! (scrap that rule too!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

It's the same detached from reality comments over and over again. Come on, folks, throw something new into the pot. This isn't fun anymore.

Even more ridiculous are the prounouncements from so called experts that Southwest is the way to go. Fine. Except you simply cannot have their cost structure with the hub and spoke structure that the traditional airlines have. And you cannot have the same kind of route service that is necessary for this country without the hub and spoke system.

Hi, my name is Hal. You may remember me from 2001: A Space Odyssey. I am a computer (and a very GOOD one!). I want to talk about the TSA and how much I hate it. And that's all I want to talk about. No debating. No compromising. No light at the end of the tunnel. And I will never, NEVER see it your way. Have a nice day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
"The airlines raise a legitimate point: They shouldn't have to pay for all of the security required by the government. For example, free first-class seats for air marshals will cost airlines $210 million a year, Delta claims."

Easy fix: keep the marshals the hell out of the premium cabin or better yet, just scrap the useless program. Let the FAs enforce the no-pee rule! (scrap that rule too!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

</font>

Yeah, I really hate having to pay for the air marshalls (both in terms of premium seats and in terms of the program even existing).

Also, I think we need to re-evaluate how we tax security. Everyone has a stake in air security, that includes non-travelers on the ground. All taxpayers should be picking up part of the bill, not just the airlines and passengers.

d

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:

I believe that "beefed-up security" is driving away at least as many passengers as it is "encouraging."

Bruce</font>

Couldn't agree with you more, bd. People are scared away by supposed long lines and it seems that every week, there is another security breech being reported on the news and in the papers. The TSA's incompetence coupled with the media's knack for blowing everything out of proportion has scared away the average American flyer.

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"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
-Dr. Rumack

Hello, my name is Joe. I am a laptop computer. I am speaking so quietly because my antenna has been broken during a rough security search. My case is broken because the "screener" dropped me. He has denied doing it. I would like to talk about a lot more, but my battery has been crushed and.........

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anonplz:
Hi, my name is Hal. You may remember me from 2001: A Space Odyssey. I am a computer (and a very GOOD one!). I want to talk about the TSA and how much I hate it. And that's all I want to talk about. No debating. No compromising. No light at the end of the tunnel. And I will never, NEVER see it your way. Have a nice day.</font>



[This message has been edited by Rover (edited 09-27-2002).]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 09-28-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
"The airlines raise a legitimate point: They shouldn't have to pay for all of the security required by the government. For example, free first-class seats for air marshals will cost airlines $210 million a year, Delta claims."

Easy fix: keep the marshals the hell out of the premium cabin or better yet, just scrap the useless program. Let the FAs enforce the no-pee rule! (scrap that rule too!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

</font>

Does it really "cost" the airlines anything for an air marshall to sit in the premium cabin? I can see an opportunity cost if the premium cabin is full and DL had to turn away a full fare premium customer because some wanna-rambo air marshall needed to sit up front, but if the premium cabin has empty seats, the marginal cost is just the difference between a coach meal vs. a premium meal?

Air marshall can sit up front on my LAX-SJC-LAX all they want...lots of empty seats available.

Well, I guess after all upgrading pax and all SAs have been accommodated, then I guess one could be put up front. I'd rather see elite members on non-eligible fares operationally upgraded instead of an air marshal, though.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by onedog:
Does it really "cost" the airlines anything for an air marshall to sit in the premium cabin? I can see an opportunity cost if the premium cabin is full and DL had to turn away a full fare premium customer because some wanna-rambo air marshall needed to sit up front, but if the premium cabin has empty seats, the marginal cost is just the difference between a coach meal vs. a premium meal?

Air marshall can sit up front on my LAX-SJC-LAX all they want...lots of empty seats available.

</font>



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

What's wrong with having the Air Marshalls sitting in the first row of coach along with the non-revs?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't see why they have to sit in first. If the job is to ensure airline safety, have we determined that terrorists don't sit in coach? It would make much more sense to have random seat assignments, and since there are more coach seats than anything else, that would mean mostly coach. Hey, they are getting paid to do this, it's part of the assignment.

If everyone knows that the security guys are all sitting up front, anyone who wants to avoid attention is going to be in 47E, as far away as possible.

Once again the majors are bending the taxpayers over and failing to use any lube at all. The majors make the NRA look like the local Baptist Church when it comes to lobbying clout. Hell Linda Daschle is one of the top industry Lobbyists. Why do you think the Senator won't make public his tax returns. They get whatever they want from the Congress and we take it in the shorts every time! The only comfort in this is that ultimately the free market rules and the day of reckoning for the majors has arrived. I can not wait until the holidays when the great unwashed get hosed on the "Use it or lose it" discount fares. Just wait until channel X, has Grandma & Grandpa or Ward, June, Wally & the Beave stuck in some airport with Delta wanting a few thousand to get them home. Can't you just see the bluster from Congress! their lobbyists won't be able to help them then. I can hardly wait for the Passengers Bill of Rights

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by onedog:
Does it really "cost" the airlines anything for an air marshall to sit in the premium cabin? I can see an opportunity cost if the premium cabin is full and DL had to turn away a full fare premium customer because some wanna-rambo air marshall needed to sit up front, but if the premium cabin has empty seats, the marginal cost is just the difference between a coach meal vs. a premium meal?</font>

They can sit up front sometimes, but whatever value they provide doesn't justify them taking away FC seats from real pax.

Furthermore, what more are they really going to do being in F versus Y? Really, unless terrorists announce that they're commencing a hijacking before they start (which is unlikely), you're not going to know that one is in progress until they get up to the cockpit and start taking action. Up until that point, the air marshal wouldn't be able to reasonably intercede, as he wouldn't know if the people were getting up to go to the restroom or galley. It's not like the air marshal would be sitting in his first class seat facing backward the whole time and then intervene whenever someone heads for the lav.

Security wise, I think they can do the same job sitting in the first third of coach.

d