Newsstand - Jets Escort Plane to N.Y. Airport (LGA)

NEW YORK -- Military jets escorted a jet to LaGuardia International Airport after a passenger became alarmed by a group of people passing notes, officials said.

About 15 minutes before American Trans Air Flight 204 was due to arrive from Chicago on Tuesday, a passenger told a flight attendant that seven others were engaged in "suspicious activity," passing notes and changing seats, Port Authority spokesman Alan Hicks said.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-plane-escorted0717jul17.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnation%2Dh eadlines

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/17/1026802711178.html

Sorry thought this had some new info to Tom's. On a re-read it was same news wire. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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~ Glen ~

Those news wires take a few minutes extra to get across the Pacific. Allows us to post first from this side http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

FWIW, they are actually a reasonably well known group to be performing at Queens College tonight! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At least I think it's tonight! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Yet another in a long series of incidents where morons thought they found the next set of terrorists. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Terrorists, terrorists, everywhere a terrorist.

You know who needs banned for life? The idiot who saw "suspicious activity."

From the article linked above (bold and italics are mine),

"Since September 11, NORAD has scrambled fighters or diverted them from other missions more than 400 times to assist civilian aviation authorities, Venable said."

That's the first time that I have seen 'assist' used as a euphemism for 'shoot them down in a ball of flames'. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

This reminds me of a news story just after 9/11 where a passenger on an SFO bound international flight that was "assisted" by F-16s told reporters that she just was so glad and felt so safe to see those fighters off the wing, apparently oblivious to the fact that they were there to shoot the plane down if it deviated from its flight path.

Reminds of all the "ENhancements" we are offered by airlines and hotels that on a closer reading always seem to actually be "DEhancements". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

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~ Glen ~

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anrkitec:
"Since September 11, NORAD has scrambled fighters or diverted them from other missions more than 400 times to assist civilian aviation authorities, Venable said."

That's the first time that I have seen 'assist' used as a euphemism for 'shoot them down in a ball of flames'. :rolleyes</font>

Seeing how not one plane has gone "down in a ball of flames," I think you're exaggerating just a tiny bit, don't you?

Note also that they do not say they're assisting the folks on the plane. They say they're assisting the civil aviation authorities, and they are.
It's a just in case thing. I'm pretty sure that when they escort the plane to where it's supposed to go, their weapons are not hot.

7 From India Freed In NY

NEW YORK (AP)--Seven members of an Indian performance group who created suspicion while on a flight from Chicago to New York were released early Wednesday, officials said.

U.S. military jets had escorted American Trans Air Flight 204 to LaGuardia International Airport in New York on Tuesday after a passenger became alarmed by a group of people passing notes, the officials.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,BT_CO_20020717_007016,00.html?mod=air

Bollywood Farce: Indian Actress and Family Are Detained

The Vermas could have been any family flying into New York City for the first time. Looking down on the glittering island, Ravi Verma delivered an excited monologue in Malayalam, pointing out the Statue of Liberty, the Empire State Building and the skyscrapers of the financial district to his wife and two daughters.

This was no ordinary family. One of Mr. Verma's daughters, a star of Bollywood movies, is on a tour of the United States. Her fans in Kerala, in southern India, consider her the Julia Roberts of Malayalam-language films. She has starred in 18.

But other passengers on American Trans Air Flight 204 from Chicago Tuesday night feared that the family had a more sinister purpose. Acting on a nervous passenger's suspicions, the authorities called in two fighter jets to escort the plane to La Guardia Airport, where it landed at 11:05. The entire family, two traveling companions and another man were taken into custody for several hours of questioning by the joint terrorism task force.

"I don't know, maybe they thought we were choosing targets or something," Mr. Verma said yesterday in an interview at his hotel in New Jersey. His 20-year-old daughter the movie star, Samyuktha Verma, is touring in a variety show with an Indian singer and a comedian for audiences across the country. Ms. Verma's last film, "Thenkasipattanam," was the highest-grossing Malayalam film ever.

What unfolded on the flight and at the airport Tuesday night was a comedy of errors worthy of most ingenious screenwriters in Bollywood, India's film industry, Mr. Verma said yesterday. "Really, it was all a misunderstanding," he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/18/nyregion/18PLAN.html

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
Seeing how not one plane has gone "down in a ball of flames," I think you're exaggerating just a tiny bit, don't you?</font>

Hmmm. I never said any such thing did I.

Actually I was only commenting on what I saw as a rather humorous use of language.

The fact of the matter is that the only ways in which an F-16 can "assist" a B757 it to shoot it down or to threaten to do so.

Despite what movies you may have seen an F-16 is unable to tranfer security personel in mid-air through the cargo hatch, nudge the plane back on course, use his verticle stab to kick a stuck landing gear down, clean the winshield so pilots can see, or transer fuel or other supplies.

I suppose the F-16 pilot can stand by and watch as the plane face-plants into the ground in the event of pilot incapacitation for whatever reason, by I still fail to see how this actually assists anyone. Maybe it's just me.

Was Gunnery Sgt. Hartmann on this flight??

"I am Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, your Senior Drill Instructor. From now on, you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be "Sir!" Do you maggots understand that?" - Full Metal Jacket

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Does anyone smell "lawsuit?"

Now that most people (the group on this flight excepted) have simmered down from 9/11, maybe some civil rights lawyers will start taking on the government and the airlines in these types of incidents without fear of being branded a communist or something? For the sake of the Constitution, I hope so...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anrkitec:
The fact of the matter is that the only ways in which an F-16 can "assist" a B757 it to shoot it down or to threaten to do so.</font>

And this has a very significant deterrent effect on anyone who might want to cause trouble, don't you think?

If you want to fly the plane into a landmark and you know you won't make it there, it probably will get you to rethink your strategy.

Actually, the real issue here has nothing to do with the fighters. It has to do with the stupidity of the passengers who complained about people passing notes and switching seats. That kind of thing happens all the time!

[This message has been edited by mdtony (edited 07-18-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
It has to do with the stupidity of the passengers who complained about people passing notes and switching seats. That kind of thing happens all the time!</font>

Well, on this we agree. To which should be added the flight crew who were unable to apply a little common sense in order to discern a real threat from an imagined one.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anrkitec:
Well, on this we agree. To which should be added the flight crew who were unable to apply a little common sense in order to discern a real threat from an imagined one.</font>

When people are scared or stupid or a combination of both in varying proportions, commonsense is first casualty and logic is suspended. When the suspected or imagined perpetrators look different, the complainers are too quick to jump to conclusions. This is a typical example of ignorance winning over common sense. Most Indians don't look anyhting like middle eastern men but to many americans it makes no diffference, they are the same.

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Sunil

Vigilantism Rears Its Ugly Head Again

An ugly spate of passenger vigilantism masquerading as patriotism exploded in the days after September 11 and led to a series of lawsuits aided by the American Civil Liberties Union. But bigots and fools never learn. On July 16, a family of seven travelers was hustled off an American Trans Air flight by police after the plane arrived at New York's LaGuardia Airport escorted by two F-16 fighter jets. "At least one passenger perceived the seven to be engaged in suspicious actions," said Alan Hicks, a spokesman for the Port Authority, the agency that operates LaGuardia. "A passenger reported this to a flight attendant, who notified the pilot, who notified ground control." After being questioned for hours, the family--and an eighth, unrelated passenger--was released. The family's hideous in-flight crimes? They were Indian nationals. They were Hindus. They were talking excitedly in their native language and pointing out New York landmarks. Several were entertainers and one is among India's best-known movie stars. And all were en route to New York to perform in a show. The eighth man, who didn't know the family and wasn't traveling with them, was apprehended and questioned simply because he, too, was Indian.

http://www.zyworld.com/brancatelli/tactical.htm

Sorry, doc, I don't agree with your characterization at all. If a group of pax is acting suspiciously, I do hope someone brings it to the attention of an FA. I consider this due vigilance, not vigilanti-ism. At that point, the airline staff should be well enough trained to assess the situation intelligently (which the pax are not necessarily expected to do) and take appropriate action.

Well, ... I agree that "the airline staff should be well enough trained to assess the situation intelligently!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

This is about nothing more than ignorance and irrational fear. Unfortunately this seems to be rather pandemic in America today. There will always be those among us who are afraid of boogiemen looming in the shadows and anyone and anything that is different from themselves and what they consider to be correct.

This potentially grave national situation appears to only be getting worse when one considers the proto-fascist tendencies of the current White House occupant. In an effort to pander to the fears of the irrational and ignorant among us Bush has unveiled his TIPS program. This program would have encouraged ordinary Americans to spy on their fellow ordinary Americans. Bush’s vision http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif for America would have had your mail person rifling through your mail to find anything suspicious, had the meter readers peering into your bedroom window, and had your co-workers tracking your computer habits.

This is just an expanded, national version of what happened on this plane. Even an elementary school child could see the potential nightmare for literally millions of false, baseless tips that this program would have led to, not to mention the civil rights nightmare. If we didn’t have the resources and ability to properly address and coordinate the real tips and information that had been gathered by the professionals prior to 9/11 what makes anyone think that millions of frightened people who see monsters in the shadows could do any better.

Thankfully a significant majority of both democrats and republicans in Congress as well as the U.S Postal Service have given an emphatic NO to this inane proposal.

Yes, I know that gambits like this are designed more to keep the attention of some diverted from things like the racing deficit, the collapse of corporate America, health care, a collapsing education system, etc. than they are real attempts at national security, still… Hopefully Bush’s recent slide in the polls is an indication that not everyone is being taken in by this.

FDR had it right some sixty years ago; the only thing we have to fear is fear [and the behavior that it engenders] itself.

anrkitec,

As usual, I agree with you completely. I would add that the TIPS program, in generating probably millions of spurious "tips," will make it that much harder to spot real information. Finding a needle in a haystack is difficult enough already without making the haystack a hundred times larger!

Bruce

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
...in generating probably millions of spurious "tips," will make it that much harder to spot real information. Finding a needle in a haystack is difficult enough already without making the haystack a hundred times larger!Bruce</font>

You are absolutely right; it would be a complete nightmare. People still don’t seem to understand that we really had quite a bit relevant info prior to 9/11. It was the inability of the agencies involved to properly coordinate what they already knew that was most at fault.

Can you imagine the size, complexity, and cost of the bureaucracy that would be needed for this nebulous TIPS program, again, not even considering the Constitutional implications? Talk about big government. The creation of a Homeland Security Department is already looking like a bureaucratic and financial boondoggle as well as a power grab for the Executive branch.