Newsstand - Severe turbulence hurts 8 on UA flight from NRT-HNL

Filed at 10:25 p.m. EST

By The Associated Press
HONOLULU (AP) -- A United Airlines flight encountered severe turbulence Monday on a trip from Tokyo to Honolulu. Eight people were treated for minor injuries.

Flight 826 was met on arrival by paramedics who treated five of the 18 flight attendants on board and three passengers, including an 18-month-old infant.

The Boeing 747-400 carrying 227 passengers hit the rough patch of air an hour after takeoff, United spokesman Andy Plews said.

How long is the flight? Why didn't they return to Tokyo?

Isn't this the exact same route UA had another flight a year or two ago that had a very bad clear air turbulance run-in (didn't someone die)?

Beckles, yes. The previous time it was the Eastbound of the UA 827/828 pair (I forget which goes E and which goes W), and an hour outbound from NRT.


IsleTraveller, the NRT/HNL is usually about a 7hr 30min flight, not considering winds.

Well, the United captain always reminds the passengers to seat and buckle up eventough the seat belt light is off, but there are always macho pax who just can't seat quietly and wants to walk around. Serve them right. But I am sorry for the FA's as it is their job to run around and the captain just can't tell in advance when the plane might hit a major turbulence.

Having just had a moderately choppy NRT-SFO flight, I was mentioning to my husband, who works with ATC, that it seems the most turbulent runs are eastbound from NRT. He said generally the runs back from NRT are stacked so full of planes that when they encounter rough air there's no room to move around for smooth air.

In this case, if the injuries were severe enough they could have certainly turned around, but if it was just cuts and bruises they would not do so.

It is interesting that on both the SFO-NRT trip and the NRT-SFO trip, I noticed about four different airlines were making the same run within about 15 minutes of each other. Add in those going to and from NRT from other destinations and it does make a crowded situation.

As a side note, NW has a rather unusual agreement with its air frame insurance carrier. They fly some unusual routings that are generally considered less turbulent in order to get a discount on their premiums. I thought this a little peculiar as I'm not familiar with planes' air frames breaking up due to turbulence.

letiole, interesting you should mention this. Without doubt, the most severe turbulance I have ever experience was on a JAL flight from NRT to JFK. I was in the very back of the 747 (hey, I was in college, what do you expect) and remember looking forward while the fusalage of the jumbojet flexed back and forth and up and down and the wings flapped their way across the Pacific. It lasted a good 25-30 minutes. Many passengers around me were using their airsick bags. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Any flight out of NRT heading "east" is going to have a lot of fuel on board so climbing above the rough air is often not an option. Stuck at FL310 in heavy chop is no picnic! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I flew UA 826 NRT-HNL in Feb. of '98, about 6 weeks after the fatality on the same route due to turbulence.

We also had bad turbulence - the worst I've ever encountered, both in terms of severity and duration. It started about 70 minutes into the flight and lasted for a good 90 minutes. Most unpleasant.

This was back when UA was still flying its last old 1970-vintage 747-100s (I believe the tail number was N156UA) it got from Luxair (Qantas had them before that) with just 3 windows on each side of the upper deck. I was in Business, row 3 in the nose (only a 2-class configuration) as we pitched and bumped along. All I kept thinking of was how old that airframe was and how the noses of both PA103 and TW800 fell off as they disintigrated.

The meal service was interupted repeatedly, once for about 45 minutes as everyone strapped in. It seemed that the Japanese announcements were long and detailed each time we were told to stay strapped in, so I'm assuming the crew was being extra careful in light of their recent accident. The crew was HNL-based, very senior and totally professional, one of the best I've ever had.

Honolulu in the morning never looked so good!

My 6 trips to Korea over the last 3 months connected through NRT or KIX 70% of the time. EVERY departure from Japan had moderate turbulance (for a 744), mostly because of air traffic restrictions which forced us into thunderstorms (according to the captains). Flights usually remained bumpy until near the international date line.

Incidently, I was on United, Asiana, ANA, Singapore, and Korean Air for those flights, and UA was always the most sensitive about turbulance. The seatbelt light comes on quite often, and the captains are apologetic but firm. Also flight TO Asia are generally smoother than flights FROM Asia from my experience.

Well, this probably should be in "OMNI", but it fits with this thread, so here goes:

I don't know whether this story is true or not, so I won't give the purported name of the passenger, but suffice it to say that he was a boxer with a very high opinion of himself. Seems that during the flight, the plane encountered some turbulence, and the announcement to "buckle your seatbelts" came on.

The FA (actually, I think this was from the time they were still called "stewardesses") walked down the aisle checking seatbelts, and when she noticed that his was unbuckled, said, "Sir, please fasten your seatbelt."

The passenger replied haughtily, "Superman don't need no seatbelt."

"Superman don't need no airplane, either," she shot back, "Now please fasten your seatbelt."

Great retort from the FA who sounds like they would do quite well on Conan or Letterman!

BTW-OMNI- The top 10 reasons why first lady Hillary Clinton decided to appear on the ``Late Show with David Letterman,'' as presented by her on CBS Wednesday.

--10. I lost a bet with Tipper.

--9. I did think this was a show where you answer a couple of easy questions and win a million dollars.

--8. If Dan Quayle did it, how hard can it be?

--7. I was already in town to interview for the Jets' head coach position.

--6. Four words: severe lapse of judgment

--5. I needed an excuse to get out of dinner with Donald Trump.

--4. When they threw in a ``Late Show'' tote bag, I said, ``Gas up the Taurus, we're goin' to Dave's.''

--3. I have not been to the Ed Sullivan Theater since I was dating Ringo.

--2. To tell you the truth, Dave, I thought Johnny hosted this show.

--1. If I can make it here, I can make it anywhere.

This is one area where I prefer the old United 1st class seats without a video system. They give you the Sony video players which are not patched into the PA system. So when they have incessant announcements about putting on seatbelts, I can peacefully watch my movie without interruption.

RANT: Why can't they do their PA announcements in coach and simply walk through business and first class to make sure that we have our seatbelts on? I hate it when they constantly wake me up to tell me to put my seatbelt on when I never take it off!

Stimpy, I wear the seatbelt outside of the blanket when I sleep, so its in plain view, and have never been awaken for that, or anything else for that matter.

On that note, it would be nice if there's a small indicator light above the overhead bins that goes out when the seatbelt is buckled. If they can do it on amusement rides, they can do it for planes! Hey, maybe I found my "simple idea that can make lots of money!"

Oh, a funny thing I noticed the last time we encountered turbulance out of NRT, all the upper deck passengers were holding up their wine glasses to prevent spilling. Its was like, "forget the laptop, save that drink!" in unison... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have had SEVERAL people spill wine and other things on me during bad turb... On a few occasions I've been holding my seatmates glass (they are asleep) however I know that the wine or other drink will end up in my lap...

For a few months early last year we had really bad turbulence going CDG-SFO and LHR-SFO... In each case I asked the FA's to give me a water bottle and no glassware (the person next to me got the hint after we hit some moderate turbulence).

Hint; when turbulence hits at least keep an eye on your drink/glass if you have one..

Also, seen SEVERAL macho types... Walking around with the fasten seat belt sign on (with turbulence or without..). I've also seen my fare share of people getting injured over the years... [Also seen a few people NOT wearing their seatbets get thrown out of there seat when approaching the gate if the captain slammed the brakes.]

- Nick

Indurain, I also wear my seatbelt outside as do most people. I was referring to the loudspeaker waking people up.

In case you hadn't noticed, United has jacked up the volume on the loudspeaker so no one will mist the seatbelt announcements even if they are wearing earplugs.

I see no reason for the loudspeakers in 1st class. As I said above, the FA's can easily walk around and see if we are wearing our belts or not.

But if there is turbulence, why should the FAs have to "walk around" to check on you if you are in First Class? They need to be strapped in, also. Hope you don't mean that the sleep of a First Class passenger is more important than a FA's physical safety. We're getting a little elitist here.

[This message has been edited by TexasFlyer (edited 01-20-2000).]

Indurain -

In the new First Suites, there's a little green LED that comes on to let the FA's know that the seat is in its full upright and locked position. Wouldn't be a bad idea to rig the seatbelt into a different LED circuit.

Letiole -

Maybe the discount is in the case of relatively minor damage/consequential damages, e.g., loss of availability of the a/c, or it ties in somehow to the liability cover for something like this where pax are injured. As you point out, I can't recall a 747 total hull loss ever from turbulence. There have been a couple of bad ones, like a 747-F up in Alaska that lost an engine on take-off, but I don't think they ever wrote a hull off.

I have no doubt someone here knows the answer definitively, and will correct me appropriately.

Greg

Gregg:

A couple of years ago there was a UA 747-100 flying from NRT to either HNL or SFO that encountered severe turbulence. IIRC one passenger was killed when she hit the ceiling and several FAs were injured.

I know there was severe damage to the interior of the aircraft, not sure about actual structural damage to the fuselage. The aircraft was close to the end of its useful life, and UA decided to retire rather than repair it. Last I heard it was residing at McCarran Field in Las Vegas.

------------------
Robert Johnson
danville 1K


[This message has been edited by danville 1K (edited 01-20-2000).]

Tex,

I wish the FA's would stay strapped in too. But they don't. They are required to walk the aisles to see if everyone has their seatbelt on. Only if the captain asks the FA's to take their seats may they sit down.

Dan,

As far as I know, there have been no retirements due to structural damage to an aircraft after turbulence. The 747 you mentioned was retired due to the expense of the cosmetic interior repair not being justified by the remaining planned life of the airframe. The aircraft could have safely continued flying (it did fly back to the U.S.). A maintenance inspection is required after any encounter with severe turbulence, although actual structural damage is exceedingly rare.

A PA announcement (as opposed to FAs walking through first class) is made anytime the seat belt sign comes on because it is required. There is a list of required PA announcements; the rest are optional. If the flight crew does not make the PA announcement, they are actually violating an FAR. I suppose someone could attempt to get the ops specs changed with the FAA so that the anouncement is no longer required (so those in first aren't woken up), but I doubt the incentive is there for the people who make those types of approvals, especially considering the recent high profile turbulence injuries.

Additionally, the FAs are not required to walk the aisles if the Captain doesn't ask them to be seated. They may sit down at their discretion, or when the Captain asks, depending on the situation.

--Mark Rogers