Air New Zealand Air Points - Appalling discrimination

I am just shocked at Air New Zealand's blatant fare discrimination.

I am planning a trip in 18 days from Auckland to Dunedin and back. The dead lowest fare on the AirNZ.com website is NZ$908.00.

When I told friends in Auckland about this, they went to the AirNZ.co.nz website and found a return fare of NZ$375 -- but only for New Zealand residents. What is this all about? Is there a special fare for white people, too? This wouldn't bother me so much if AirNZ chose to stand alone in this world. But they are part of the Star Alliance, and this type of discriminatory treatment should be forbidden among Alliance members.

I understand local fares, as in the case of Hawaii. But those fares are for residents of the islands to get off them occasionally and visit the mainland. To the best of my knowledge, residents of Hawaii pay the same intra-island fares that the rest of planet Earth pays.

When I telephoned AirNZ tonight, the phone agent told me that if friends of mine book my ticket on AirNZ.co.nz from their home in Auckland, then I would qualify for the resident fare. This makes no sense and I don't believe it.

She also said that if I could successfully book the lower fare from outside NZ on the website, it would not be challenged. Problem is, the booking process makes you swear that you are a NZ resident, something I could never state in good faith.

So, at present it looks like I am stuck with a choice between lying (which I will not do) and extortion (which I will not pay).

Has anyone else, particularly a *Gold member, been in this predicament with AirNZ, and how did you handle it? What are others' thoughts?

Thanks!




------------------
~ Friends don't let friends fly coach ~

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Horizons:

To the best of my knowledge, residents of Hawaii pay the same intra-island fares that the rest of planet Earth pays.

</font>

Your knowledge would seem incomplete.

Here's a fare restriction pulled out of an HNL-OGG fare:

TICKET RESTRICTIONS

VALID FOR STATE RESIDENT RESIDENCY OF HAWAII TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED: BY TICKETS BY MAIL TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED: IN HAWAII

Furthermore, both Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines also have interisland pass programs for non-residents that sometimes can allow non-residents to travel interisland more cheaply than residents of Hawaii. So who can travel interisland more cheaply? It depends on lots of factors.

Also many *A airlines including NZ and UA offer non-resident passes that may or may not be a better deal than residents can get (depending on the itinerary).

It's a free market. Become informed and act as a good consumer -- which means act in your own best interests. For some, that might mean buying a NZ airpass. Others might chose to fly Qantas/Origin Pacific (whose cheapest domestic NZ fares aren't restricted to residents). Some might chose Freedom Air (for routes served by them). Others might just buy the supposed Air New Zealand NZ resident-only fares.


[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 06-10-2002).]

Their pricing is policy is consistent with what other airlines do. UA offers Visit US passes for non-US residents only. I suppose you will accuse UA for reverse discrimination? Both NZ and QF offer airpasses for non Australian/New Zealand residents. SQ have fares that must be ticketed in Singapore only. Domestic Japan fares are must cheaper when purchased in Japan than from overseas.

UA has fares on their website that can only be purchased with a USA address. So what goes around comes around.

Mark

You don't need to be discriminated against. If you are non resident of NZ Air NZ has a visit NZ pass which requires a minimum of two sectors and would be 580.00 NZD for AKL/DUD/AKL.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Horizons:


I am just shocked at Air New Zealand's blatant fare discrimination.

I am planning a trip in 18 days from Auckland to Dunedin and back. The dead lowest fare on the AirNZ.com website is NZ$908.00.

When I told friends in Auckland about this, they went to the AirNZ.co.nz website and found a return fare of NZ$375 -- but only for New Zealand residents. What is this all about? Is there a special fare for white people, too? This wouldn't bother me so much if AirNZ chose to stand alone in this world. But they are part of the Star Alliance, and this type of discriminatory treatment should be forbidden among Alliance members.

I understand local fares, as in the case of Hawaii. But those fares are for residents of the islands to get off them occasionally and visit the mainland. To the best of my knowledge, residents of Hawaii pay the same intra-island fares that the rest of planet Earth pays.

When I telephoned AirNZ tonight, the phone agent told me that if friends of mine book my ticket on AirNZ.co.nz from their home in Auckland, then I would qualify for the resident fare. This makes no sense and I don't believe it.

She also said that if I could successfully book the lower fare from outside NZ on the website, it would not be challenged. Problem is, the booking process makes you swear that you are a NZ resident, something I could never state in good faith.

So, at present it looks like I am stuck with a choice between lying (which I will not do) and extortion (which I will not pay).

Has anyone else, particularly a *Gold member, been in this predicament with AirNZ, and how did you handle it? What are others' thoughts?

Thanks!


</font>

Restricting to certain residencies etc is very common - it happens on all airlines. You also see it for example (JFK-LHR-JFK is a very different price to LHR-JFK-LHR) on both airlines which you have elite status. This is nothing new. I'm not sure why you're so surprised.

I guess I am so surprised because AirNZ is effectively saying, "These are our airfare prices. They are not negotiable. By the way, if you have a NZ passport or residency card, you'll always pay 60% less. Enjoy." Not a specific route or a specific promotion. All the time.

That's outrageous. No, United Airlines does nothing like that.

I have no problem with an airline offering a promotion, like bonus miles, and limiting that to residents of a particular geographic area. It's quite another thing for an airline to have a two-tier pricing system across the board. In particular, an airline that wishes to participate in a global alliance.

As I said in my original note, it really is no different from offering permanently lower airfares for people of a particular race. But then again, I guess some folks really wouldn't see a problem with that.

I am aware of the South Pacific Airpass that AirNZ sells. But using that method I'll still spend 50% more than if I could buy off the website.

If I go into a hardware store in Auckland, I don't expect them to charge me 50% more for a hammer because I don't have a New Zealand passport. Restaurants don't charge me 50% more for the same meal as the people at the next table simply because of where I live. Nor would most reasonable people stand for it.


[Edited to correct percentages.]

[This message has been edited by Horizons (edited 06-10-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rdd:

Restricting to certain residencies etc is very common - it happens on all airlines. You also see it for example (JFK-LHR-JFK is a very different price to LHR-JFK-LHR) on both airlines which you have elite status.</font>


Hmmm. I pay exactly the same for either of those itineraries as a UK citizen, so I'm not sure what the point is. They are two very different itineraries, so I expect them to have different prices, depending on the point of origin. But I also expect to buy off the same price list as other travelers no matter which direction I fly. And on United and American, I do.

The day United says "Americans pay 60% less than our published fares! All flights!" is the day that I'll agree with others here.




------------------
~ Friends don't let friends fly coach ~

It happens everywhere - even if it is not spelled out as clearly as NZ does it, other airlines prevent non-residant from getting hold of the cheap tickets by restricting the billing address of the credit card used to pay for the ticket.

Why don't you get a multi trip pass from NZ before leaving... Might be cheaper than the fare you've seen

Horizons -

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If I go into a hardware store in Auckland, I don't expect them to charge me 50% more for a hammer because I don't have a New Zealand passport. Restaurants don't charge me 50% more for the same meal as the people at the next table simply because of where I live. Nor would most reasonable people stand for it.</font>

When I look at Travelocity's rule displays, I don't see anything related to residency requirements. What I do see is this ticketing requirement:

TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED: IN NEW ZEALAND/AUSTRALIA TICKETS MUST NOT BE ISSUED: BY PTA

Following your analogy, I do not read these fare restrictions to say that if you walked in to the hardware store in AKL, they'd charge you a different price because you have a NZ price.

I read this to say if you called from the US (where hammers are much more expensive, because they're generally sold as part of a hammer and screwdriver set (i.e., LAX-AKL-Dunedin), they will charge you more.

Here's where I'm guessing, because I didn't try to log in and book on airnz.com, but because airnz.com is accessible anywhere in the world, the only way that the system can ensure that the ticket's being "issued" in NZ/AUS is to ask whether the person's a resident.

To my mind it actually broadens the ability of people who would otherwise be able to purchase a ticket in NZ/AUS directly to do it anywhere in the world.

This seems no different than the restrictions placed on RWSTAR ticketing. I certainly see it as different than "race-based ticketing."

Just send an email to a travel agency in NZ and have them book it for you - you can collect it there.

Greg

[edited to clarify analogy]



[This message has been edited by greg99 (edited 06-11-2002).]

greg99 made a good point.

The AKL-DUD fares Horizons referred does not even mention that it is restricted to NZ residents only. It is restricted to ticketing by New Zealand/Australian travel agents. In other words, if you go into a travel agent in New Zealand or Australia, you get that price.

UA does (indirectly) offer lower prices depending on where the ticket is issued. Just look at Star Alliance RTW fares. Same itineraries will yield different prices depending on where the ticket is issued.

I rang AZ today as I am going to NZ later this year, for $515 (NZ$) I could get three flights anywhere dometically which is what $200 US ?? available to anyone - minimum is 2 coupons - who says you need to use them all

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by greg99:

When I look at Travelocity's rule displays, I don't see anything related to residency requirements. What I do see is this ticketing requirement:

TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED: IN NEW ZEALAND/AUSTRALIA TICKETS MUST NOT BE ISSUED: BY PTA

Following your analogy, I do not read these fare restrictions to say that if you walked in to the hardware store in AKL, they'd charge you a different price because you have a NZ price.
</font>

Dumb analogies (both of them).

Travelocity doesn't list all fares offered by Air NZ. And just because you found one that has a NZ ticketing but not residency requirement, doesn't mean there aren't NZ fares that list a NZ residency requirement. There are. In fact many of the lowest fares offered by the www.airnz.co.nz (http://www.airnz.co.nz) site do list a residency requirement. Air NZ E-savers for example:

Terms and Conditions:

For New Zealand residents only

You can also find that some of the lowest rates offered in reservation systems for some NZ hotels are supposedly limited to AU/NZ residents only.



[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 06-11-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jongar:
I rang AZ today as I am going to NZ later this year, </font>

For the umpteenth time, AZ is Alitalia, NZ is Air New Zealand !

I hope it isn't too late. I just saw your post. You can book your fare on travel.co.nz. You've missed the very lowest one, but you can still get a base fare of NZD361.78 and total of NZD434.61. You need V class. I didn't know your return date, but gave 8 days for no particular reason; 10 day advance required. You simply ask for an e-ticket.

NZ 631V 26JUN AKLDUD SS1 715A 905A * WE
NZ 632V 04JUL DUDAKL SS1 935A 1115A * TH

$B:SAKL:TAKL
*PENALTY APPLIES*
LAST DATE TO PURCHASE TICKET: 14JUN02
$B-1 C13JUN02-SITI
2.AKL NZ DUD 77.25V10RT NZ AKL 77.25V10RT
3.NUC 154.50 ROE2.34135
4.FARE NZD 361.78 TAX 48.29NZ TAX 16.00YQ TAX 5.00CE TAX 3.56WX
5.TOT NZD 434.63
6.S1 NVB26JUN/NVA26JUN
7.S2 NVB04JUL/NVA04JUL
8.E CAA LEVY INCLUDED
9.VALID TICKET NUMBER MUST BE PLACED ON PNR
10.FARE IS NON-ENDORSABLE/NON-TRANSFERABLE/NON-REFUNDABLE
11.PAYMENT AND TICKETING MUST BE MADE WITHIN 1 DY OF RES
BAGGAGE ALLOWANCE: 20K

Now I cannot guarantee the transaction will be allowed, but I know that their associate company in Australia has no problem with this.

I've met Horizons several times, and realise he would not lie on the web application on principle, but cannot see how ticketing via a NZ travel agent would be lying? Might cost $US20 or whatever extra, but seems like a win-win? They should be able to mail Registered or courier the ticket to your first hotel in NZ?

I recently asked Vietnam Airlines in SYD the cost of a Hanoi-Hue ticket on their own airline. The figure asked also looked high, but what can you do? I KNOW they sell the same route to locals for about 20% of the figure. I asked a Hanoi based TA if he could discount it, and he came back offering it at HALF what the airline themselves wanted, and it was issued in our names etc, and tickets delivered to our hotel. And we needed tell no fibs or untruths to get the price. So SITI seems to be the answer many times. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



------------------
~ Glen ~

As long as the agent clearly advises the passengers the fare rules and conditions when booking, there's no real problem with this practise.

Most of the lead-in fares have huge amounts of conditions attached, ie nonrefundable, changes require upgrade, etc.

The airlines will not be sympathetic if you miss your flight (or it's delayed and you miss your international flight) when you had the option to purchase a fare that had protection for these mishaps specifically built in to the fare rules and you chose to purchase a cheap fare that you're not supposed to (strictly speaking)!



------------------
*Any information given in the email is my personal opinion and not the opinion of my employer.

Thanks to all for your replies here. You all make excellent points.

I think the way to go, as thefaregurusuggests, is to go through a site like travel.co.nz. The one spot I kept getting hung up on in the AirNA.co.nz site was the point before ticketing where they make you aver that you are a NZ citizen/resident. And as this is part of the Terms and Conditions of ticketing & travel, technically AirNZ could deny you boarding and any refund. Too risky.

I´ll let you guys know what I find.




------------------
~ Friends don't let friends fly coach ~

The other option is just email any travel agent or email a flight centre branch in NZ. I am sure they would have no problem selling you a web-based SI/TI NZ fare.

At least that is my experience doing it the other way with USA and Australian fares that are also SI/TI restrictions. And never had any problems.

Mark