Air New Zealand Air Points - NZ9862/9863 SYD-MEL-SYD UA Codeshare

I note that NZ are now codesharing on the UA862/863 service SYD-MEL-SYD.

If I am correct, then NZ has the rights to operate Australian domestic services. Being a sucker for my FF miles booking on the NZ codeshare is very tempting - but I can't seem to price it.

Does anyone know if in fact this can be sold and if so what the price is?

Cheers!

Best Regards

Bradley

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by luftaom:
I note that NZ are now codesharing on the UA862/863 service SYD-MEL-SYD.

If I am correct, then NZ has the rights to operate Australian domestic services. Being a sucker for my FF miles booking on the NZ codeshare is very tempting - but I can't seem to price it.

Does anyone know if in fact this can be sold and if so what the price is?
</font>

Since the flights are operated by UA, who do not have the right to fly domestic only pax in AU, it's silly to think you can buy it domestic only as the NZ code share.

The NZ code share on UA MEL-SYD can only be used with a connecting international flight.

Perhaps for the purposes of the 55,555 promo you could buy a syd-akl-syd-mel-syd using NZ and UA? Thoughts anyone?

This would probably only cost you $600 or so, for 2 *A carriers.

If you could do TG syd-akl-syd (TG), akl-hlz-akl (NZ) and syd-mel-syd (UA) this already wraps up 3 *A carriers.. thoughts anyone?

Having spoken to a travel agent about this a few weeks back, they advised that travel on UA (with a UA flight no.) between SYD and MEL can only be sold as part of an international itinerary and must be on the same ticket as the international portion. This means it needs to be a fare which combines the domestic and international portions, and the only fares I'm aware of which allow this are a *A RTW or a UA international flight to/from the USA or beyond, neither of which are cheap.

I don't know what the rules are for booking it as a NZ codeshare, but at a guess I'd say it could only be ticketed as part of the connecting flight from the USA...?

Asked UA today. They 'seemed' to say no way could a SYD person do it but from MEL they would allow a MEL-SYD-MEL that connected with TG SYD-AKL-SYD as TG do not *NOT* fly themsleves MEL-AKL but NZ does on its own metal. When in NZ a short domestic cheapie and you are there with 3 partners. The TG fare to NZ is always in Sunday papers for under $500 and often $A399. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 05-12-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Quokka:
it's silly to think you can buy it domestic only as the NZ code share.
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With all due respect, I didn't think it was such a silly question. It's NZ inventory which NZ has the rights to sell - if NZ are otherwise allowed to sell AU domestic inventory why does it make it a silly thought to enquire with regards to the codeshare inventory?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
Asked UA today. They 'seemed' to say no way could a SYD person do it but from MEL they would allow a MEL-SYD-MEL that connected with TG SYD-AKL-SYD as TG do not *NOT* fly themsleves MEL-AKL but NZ does on its own metal. When in NZ a short domestic cheapie and you are there with 3 partners. The TG fare to NZ is always in Sunday papers for under $500 and often $A399. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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When they 'seemed' to say that you could do that, did they say that they would ticket it or just that you should theoretically be able to do it? The message I got was definitely that it had to be on the same ticket, which would mean either buying the TG fare through UA or vice versa, or finding a co-operative travel agent. The thing is, UA codeshare on the NZ direct MEL-AKL services, so there's no real incentive for them to do it, and TG fly SYD-MEL in their own right, so no incentive there either.

Another downside is that the UA and TG flights don't connect at all, and you'd have to overnight in Sydney in both directions. Of course if you live in Sydney anyway (gasp!) that wouldn't be such a problem... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by luftaom:
With all due respect, I didn't think it was such a silly question. It's NZ inventory which NZ has the rights to sell - if NZ are otherwise allowed to sell AU domestic inventory why does it make it a silly thought to enquire with regards to the codeshare inventory?</font>

It is silly to think Australia would allow cabotage privileges to a foreign airline such as UA simply because UA has a code share marketing agreement with an airline that might have those rights (such as NZ).

Governments grant cabotage rights and privileges -- not Air New Zealand's marketing department.



[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 05-13-2002).]

OK then, so by the same token QF would be prohibited from selling domestic sectors on foreign codeshare partners wouldn't they?

Well this simply isn't the case. I have done SYD-BNE on PX metal, and know people who have done BNE-SYD on JL metal. All one simply has to do is book on the QF flight number, ie buy QF inventory.

Now you think it is a silly question to ask if the same thing can be done with NZ inventory? At this stage it would be prudent to point out that NZ has exactly the same domestic cabotage rights as QF and UA is in exactly the same position as PX and JL.

I am probably totally wrong here but would not a 2 minute phone call to Air NZ to ask this very question save a lot of typing? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by luftaom:
OK then, so by the same token QF would be prohibited from selling domestic sectors on foreign codeshare partners wouldn't they?

Well this simply isn't the case. I have done SYD-BNE on PX metal, and know people who have done BNE-SYD on JL metal. All one simply has to do is book on the QF flight number, ie buy QF inventory.

Now you think it is a silly question to ask if the same thing can be done with NZ inventory? At this stage it would be prudent to point out that NZ has exactly the same domestic cabotage rights as QF and UA is in exactly the same position as PX and JL.

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Several foreign scheduled passenger airlines operate multiple domestic legs in Australia.

The Australian government (not Qantas) has granted these carriers the right to carry "own traffic" I.e. carry their own stopover traffic while they are serving more than two domestic points as part of a round trip, or while serving more than two points in Australia on separate flights. UA has "own traffic" rights between MEL and SYD.

The Australian government also has allowed case-by-case approvals for international carriers to assist with the ad hoc or emergency movement of domestic cargo or passengers (ie cabotage) when it has been in Australia's interest to allow it. For example, after the Ansett collapse.

UA does not have current cabotage rights in Australia. UA and some 9 other international airlines were granted cabotage rights after Ansett collapsed but those rights expired 31 Dec.

If you flew Air Niugini between SYD and BNE then it was permitted because either PX had cabotage rights on that route or because someone screwed up and allowed a QF SYD-BNE fare on a codeshare to be sold to a pax who shouldn't have been allowed to buy and fly it. It certainly wasn't because giving a PX flight a QF code share number granted it any cabotage rights.

As for Air New Zealand, the governments of Australia and New Zealand have signed a "Single Aviation Market" agreement that allows each others' air carriers to operate in the other's country. The United States is not party to the SAM agreement and Air NZ simply giving an NZ code share designation to the UA MEL-SYD flight doesn't grant UA any cabotage rights.

If you wish to find more details about the Australian government's position on cabotage, use the Parliament of Austrlia's search page:

http://search.aph.gov.au/search/Parlinfo.asp

And as suggested above, a quick call to Air NZ should also get you the facts -- which are that you can't fly the NZ codeshare on UA without an international connection included on the ticket.


[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 05-13-2002).]

OK now, which one of you called?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Happened to be me who was 'checked with' about that! Quokka is absolutely 100% correct on this one.


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*Any information given in the email is my personal opinion and not the opinion of my employer.