Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Nonstop HKG-JFK in res systems now

...took them long enough. Flights begin June 1

Flights will be operated by those A346 contraptions.


CX822 HKG 1015 JFK 1405
CX823 JFK 1550 HKG 2010+1


The currently existing HKG-YVR-JFK will remain as is.


------------------
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

Try the Unofficial Continental Airlines Dictionary (http://www.nonepass.com)

Can they be booked now?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by alonzo:
Can they be booked now?</font>

If its on line, yes. But CX website not even showing flights.

[This message has been edited by Guy Betsy (edited Mar 09, 2004).]

ConcordeBoy, what is your source for this information on the non-stop HKG-JFK on CX A340-600.

Cathay will make it official tomorrow (March 10) when they make their profit announcements. I am at a trade show with Cathay and they let it out of the bag.

This will really be terrific news for those East Coast travelers (including myself) who love CX's service but hate their schedules.

Until the JFK-HKG n/s, virtually all CX flights were late-night flights that arrived very early in the morning in HKG. This inevitably meant a long day before getting on a long flight, then being in Hong Kong at 7am with no airport arrivals lounge. And the return flight was almost as bad.
Recently, I've wound up on UA: although there's an enormous difference in the service (especially) and comfort, the convenience of UA's midday non-stop from Chicago (with easy connection from Boston or Manchester) trumped the CX offering.

With CX apparently now offering a midday n/s from JFK that arrives in the evening, they become my new first choice. And the return flight lets me find a connection from JFK that puts me home at a reasonable hour.

It is still not showing in direct access/sabre.

I wonder if this will be the end of the JFK/YVR/HKG flight or not. For the 747 lovers, will the move over to the 346 or stay with the current flight? I guess Continental will now have to change their advertising to the only non-stop from Newark, not New York.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
I wonder if this will be the end of the JFK/YVR/HKG flight or not. For the 747 lovers, will the move over to the 346 or stay with the current flight? </font>
Actually bothering to read the first post may have done you well... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



------------------
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

Try the Unofficial Continental Airlines Dictionary (http://www.nonepass.com)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The currently existing HKG-YVR-JFK will remain as is.

</font> For now. . . .who knows what impact this will have on future loads.

CX will keep HKG-YVR-JFK as their final plan is to fly round-the-world HKG-YVR-JFK-LHR-HKG. Since the new direct service may have payload restrictions they need CX888/889 to load their cargo.

If they keep both flights then that will make me very happy becuase it will take some of the pressure off the midnight YVR HKG flight.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long it takes for new flights like this one to make it to the AAdvantage award inventory?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ConcordeBoy:
...took them long enough. Flights begin June 1

Flights will be operated by those A346 contraptions.


CX822 HKG 1015 JFK 1405
CX823 JFK 1550 HKG 2010+1

</font>

It seems like that these flights are intended more for people whose final destination is HKG.

For those who want to make connections to/from other destinations in Asia, an early morning arrival in HKG and late afternoon departure from HKG would be better.

From various other sites, the inaugural date will be July 1, not June 1 as previously reported.

I have yet to see an official press release, but we will have to wait till tomorrow.

Now the question is "will CX release any award inventory for the new flights? If not, will it release more seats on the one stop flight to HKG via YVR? "

But I am happy to see this flight finally happening... Airbus A340-600 is really nice, and I guess CX is no longer planning to reduce the F/J loads on this aircraft. Indeed, I think CX should add an extra row of F and more legroom in Y.

Carfield

With regards to the arrival time, I think a 8pm arrival can still allow trasit to Taipei, Manila, Bangkok, Delhi and Australia, so it shouldn't be too bad.

But the return time is pretty bad...

I guess CX is not targetting the connection traffic at this early stage... rather it is into the point to point traffic. Judging from CO's relatively high load factors on EWR to HKG, I think CX's flights should be a success especially for F and J. I can picture CX stealing many real F passengers from CO. CO's BF is not a bad product, but it is not really first class, and the service can be hit or miss. The Asian F/As that CO hires are pretty bad... also Y at CO's Boeing 777s are pretty bad... CX's A340-600 is not that better, but more legroom for sure for Y.

Also, slots may be another problem. Terminal seven is pretty crowded as of this point. I guess with BA's transatlantic schedule, it is hard for CX to add a later arrival time into JFK. I hope CX can negotiate something down the road because BKK/HAN/SGN/MNL/TPE/SIN/KUL provide many connection traffic for CX's LAX flights, and I am sure that applies to SFO/YVR/YYZ/JFK flights too... Except SIN, CX flights can potentially be a super time saver for Southeast Asian passengers.
My guts feeling is that the slots have something to do with it.

Carfield

[This message has been edited by Carfield (edited Mar 10, 2004).]

Just some update on CX flight information:

The new HKG-JFK should be on a A340-600

The original CX888/889 (HKG-YVR-JFK) will be switched from B747-400 to A340-300, meanwhile CX838/839 (HKG-YVR) will be switched from A340-300 to B747-400

I guess CX is not expecting a lot of YVR-JFK traffic.

Finally! I feel a mileage run coming up --- Summer shopping on 5th avenue.

Anyone have an idea when CX will launch service between London and NY?

I guess another fact on such scheduling is that CX only has 3 A346s. They will be used for Sydney and New York services. This schedule can probably make their scheduling easier. (Arriving 8pm can allow the plane for the late night Sydney departure or for overnight maintanence)

et voila
https://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutus/press/0,3845,31342-104548,00.html

The press release says July 1 not June 1.

This is fantastic news. Thanks to all who shared.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brian828:
I guess CX is not expecting a lot of YVR-JFK traffic. </font>

As you know, YVR had two flights as opposed to JFKs one. Now it's 2:2 and this is great! I hope I can change a trip I have scheduled in J without a routing change fee by simply connecting there instead.


[This message has been edited by Cygnus X-1 (edited Mar 10, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 44C:
Anyone have an idea when CX will launch service between London and NY?</font>

I suspect they have to get ex-LHR rights first from the U.K. government. May not be forthcoming.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
et voila
https://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutus/press/0,3845,31342-104548,00.html[/B]</font>

Something isn't right here. 2 non-stops daily?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Flight Route Departure
(Local Time)
Summer / Winter Arrival
(Local Time)
Summer / Winter Days
CX830 Hong Kong - New York
(non-stop) 10:15 / 10:15 14:05 / 13:00 Daily
CX831 New York - Hong Kong
(non-stop) 15:50 / 14:45 20:10* / 20:25* Daily
CX888 Hong Kong - New York
(non-stop) 14:55 / 14:55 21:30 / 19:55 Daily
CX889 New York - Hong Kong
(non-stop) 23:10 / 21:30 08:00+ / 07:55+ Daily
</font>

Looks like the misstated 888/889 being non-stop.

It's apparent from the respective times that 888/889 will continue to be a 1-stop flight in each direction.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
I suspect they have to get ex-LHR rights first from the U.K. government. </font>
Actually, that's the crux of the conflict: the UK gov't has given the go-ahead, but problem is that they no longer have the authority to.

They ceded sovereignty of their skyways to the EC, who has very little incentive to let this flight go forth.

------------------
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

Try the Unofficial Continental Airlines Dictionary (http://www.nonepass.com)

The schedule actually looks good for onward connections to more long haul destinations like Australia and South Africa, in both directions. Some of these flights go out quite late, so inbound from JFK will pose no connection problems. And there are early morning arrivals from this part of the world which will make the outbound equally convenient. That is if someone wants to spend all that time on an airplane. Having just come back on the non-stop HGK-YYZ yesterday, it is quite a haul and had I not done a two night stay in Hong Kong on the way back, who knows what shape I'd be in having flown straight from JNB [11 hours] then onto the YYZ flight [14 hours]. Even a shower and decompression in The Wing would not have made it completely bearable.

Flights are now loaded and bookable in res system.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
Something isn't right here. 2 non-stops daily? </font>

Doesn't the release say "North America" not the United States? In which case it is actually correct.

.

[This message has been edited by Cygnus X-1 (edited Mar 10, 2004).]

i guess if the equipment switch to 343 for 888/889 falls through, we'll see the flight times increase. from the flight times for the 888/889, it doesn't seem CX has updated them with the slower cruise speed for the 343 in mind.

16.5 hours in a plane. UGH!!! I think that first class will be a big slog, let alone biz or economy. I'm disappointed that the 744 no longer flies cx888/9. I really like the 744 FC cabin. I guess I'll have to go via LAX now, and AA cross country.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by eamus:
Doesn't the release say "North America" not the United States? In which case it is actually correct. </font>

No. 2 pairs of HKG-JFK non-stops daily.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
No. 2 pairs of HKG-JFK non-stops daily.</font>

From the CX press release:

This will be the only daily non-stop service between the two cities and, with the continuation of the airline's existing one-stop service via Vancouver, Cathay Pacific will also be the only airline operating two daily services on this route.

I read it to mean that CX is the only airline to offer two daily services to New York, whereby one of them is the new non-stop and the other the existing HKG-YVR-JFK service.

It probably should have been expressed a bit more clearly in the PR.

Well. the new flights can be purchased at www.cathaypacific.com... (http://www.cathaypacific.com...) with CX888/9 changed from 744 to 34C, and CX 830/1 as a A340-600.

But the flights are not up at orbitz or aa.com yet...

Carfield

Well a followup... for those who wonder if award seats are available on new flights...

Well I called at 8:35pm WED EST to alaska's partner desk... the new flights are listed but no seats are released yet. So I guess I will call again tomorrow...

carfield

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brian828:

The original CX888/889 (HKG-YVR-JFK) will be switched from B747-400 to A340-300, meanwhile CX838/839 (HKG-YVR) will be switched from A340-300 to B747-400
</font>

So this basically eliminates F from JFK to YVR and also reduces the net F seats on HKG-JFK - too bad they did the switch to the 343

Well, 34C is the Airbus A340-300 with the three class cabin... don't worry! It basically reduces the F class seats from 12 to 8 for the evening flights.

I guess CX is only converting 10 Airbus A340-300s into a two class international cabin styles, not all of them.

I cannot imagine CX not putting F on JFK and YVR flights.

For YVR, the afternoon flights will see Boeing 747-400 again, instead of Airbus A340-300. CX just swtich... I heard that Airbus A340-600 will be used exclusively on the JFK and SYD routes (no more LAX flights on Airbus A340-600 in July). JFK will become an all-Airbus base.

Carfield

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Shareholder:
The schedule actually looks good for onward connections to more long haul destinations like Australia and South Africa, in both directions. Some of these flights go out quite late, so inbound from JFK will pose no connection problems. And there are early morning arrivals from this part of the world which will make the outbound equally convenient. That is if someone wants to spend all that time on an airplane.</font>

Putting aside whether pax want to take this route, without a stopover in HKG, there's also the question of whether it's practical in terms of the fare. Last I checked, CX published no Business or First fares for USA-Australia via HKG. Nor to South Africa. I just checked http://www.expedia.co.uk/pub/agent.dll?qscr=ftap&&zz=1071677704232&&&zz=1076534823328&&&zz=1077493172789& (an Expedia UK service to look for published fares) and confirmed that CX presently publishes no JFK-SYD or JFK-JNB fares. All that's to say: Whatever their reason for the current scheduling, I don't think it can be ongoing intercontinental pax.

i guess CX is intending to make the new nonstop flight continue beyond october. otherwise, why would they also publish winter times as this route is not expected to start until July.

Why would anyone (except nutty people who read flyer talk) choose to go from JFK to JNB via HKG or JFK to SYD via HKG when there are more direct routings that save you significant time?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jakob:
i guess CX is intending to make the new nonstop flight continue beyond october. otherwise, why would they also publish winter times as this route is not expected to start until July.</font>

What would be the commercial logic in starting a much-hyped nonstop service and then suspending it three months later?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bedelman:
Putting aside whether pax want to take this route, without a stopover in HKG, there's also the question of whether it's practical in terms of the fare. Last I checked, CX published no Business or First fares for USA-Australia via HKG. Nor to South Africa. I just checked http://www.expedia.co.uk/pub/agent.dll?qscr=ftap&&zz=1071677704232&&& zz=1076534823328&&&zz=1077493172789& (http://www.expedia.co.uk/pub/agent.dll?qscr=ftap&&zz=1071677704232&&&zz=1076534823328&&&zz=1077493172789&) (an Expedia UK service to look for published fares) and confirmed that CX presently publishes no JFK-SYD or JFK-JNB fares. All that's to say: Whatever their reason for the current scheduling, I don't think it can be ongoing intercontinental pax. </font>

CX does not have any PUBLISHED fares between North America and Australia or South Africa period. I assume they are not allowed to do so by IATA as they do not have traffic rights between these areas.

However, they do offer "NET FARES" or "unpublished" fares through consolidators such as www.jadetours.com (http://www.jadetours.com) (they have offices throughout North America).

It is not uncommon to buy an Economy Class ticket on CX from North America to Australia via Hong Kong for about the same price as a Qantas ticket ($1500-$2000) from these consolidators while the actual fare printed on the ticket would show a fare around $6000 (priced by the CRS by combining the North America to Hong Kong H**** fare basis with the Hong Kong to Australia Y**** fare basis for IATA BSP purposes, but booked in "M", "K" classes)!!!

(They also offer "net fares" from North America [Canada at least] in F / J class [booked in A/D classes] for about the same price or less that Qantas charges [plus you get to fly more!!])

Also, in the reverse direction, travel agents such as www.travel.com.au (http://www.travel.com.au) also offer "NET FARES" from Australia to North America on CX in F/J (booked in A/D - and costs a lot less than flying QF which dosen't offer discounts) for the same reason.


[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited Mar 11, 2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daniellam:
[B] CX does not have any PUBLISHED fares between North America and Australia or South Africa period. I assume they are not allowed to do so by IATA as they do not have traffic rights between these areas.

However, they do offer "NET FARES" or "unpublished" fares through consolidators such as www.jadetours.com (http://www.jadetours.com) (they have offices throughout North America).

It is not uncommon to buy an Economy Class ticket on CX from North America to Australia via Hong Kong for about the same price as a Qantas ticket ($1500-$2000) from these consolidators while the actual fare printed on the ticket would show a fare around $6000 (priced by the CRS by combining the North America to Hong Kong B**** fare basis with the Hong Kong to Australia Y**** fare basis for IATA BSP purposes, but booked in "M", "L" etc. classes)!!!

(They also offer "net fares" from North America [Canada at least] in F / J class [booked in A/D classes] for about the same price or less that Qantas charges [plus you get to fly more!!])

Also, in the reverse direction, travel agents such as www.travel.com.au (http://www.travel.com.au) also offer "NET FARES" from Australia to North America on CX in F/J (booked in A/D - and costs a lot less than flying QF which dosen't offer discounts) for the same reason.

The last tiem I checked www.travel.com.au, (http://www.travel.com.au,) the CX fare SYD-HKG-JFK-HKG-SYD was about AUD 12,000 in for first class, and AUD 8,000 for business class.

[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited Mar 11, 2004).]

I just booked a business class redemption ticket for the inaugural HKG-JFK nonstop, via MPC.

All the seats in rows 20 and 21 are somehow already assigned.

Does this aircraft have an exit row in business class?

I've been trying to get an "A" class seat on the new flight through AA RTW desk with no luck. Although ITN.net is showing A4 on most flights for late July, AA is showing nothing.

Bummer.

Well, I think AA has not updated its database yet with the new flights. Alaska shares the same info system as AA, and of course I try to book an award ticket this morning. Nothing is opened up yet for the whole month of July and beyond...

I guess only Asia Miles are having inventory for award seats now.

Knowing aa.com's tech history, it will take them sometimes to straighten out things.

If you have a RTW, why don't you call CX directly?

Carfield

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by daniellam:
CX does not have any PUBLISHED fares between North America and Australia or South Africa period. I assume they are not allowed to do so by IATA as they do not have traffic rights between these areas.

However, they do offer "NET FARES" or "unpublished" fares through consolidators such as www.jadetours.com (http://www.jadetours.com) (they have offices throughout North America).</font>

Do unpublished fares qualify for mileage earning? I know CX is not exactly generous for those in the back of the bus, but even if Jadetours et al. matched the several thousand $$$ you'd spend on other airlines for a J or F fare on these long-haul flights, a lack of mileage earning still puts them (and therefore CX) at a huge competitive disadvantage.

I know that CX offers the AllAsia Pass which has add-ons to Australia. I know absolutely nothing about traffic rights, but since the AAP is only available for flights originating in North America and has the option to go on to Australia, query why the same can't be done on regular fares. (I do see that the AAP doesn't qualify for mileage, but that presumably is only a pricing/marketing decision by CX for what is obviously a budget ticket. I am not sure mileage earning has anything to do with traffic rights).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by eamus:
Do unpublished fares qualify for mileage earning? I know CX is not exactly generous for those in the back of the bus, but even if Jadetours et al. matched the several thousand $$$ you'd spend on other airlines for a J or F fare on these long-haul flights, a lack of mileage earning still puts them (and therefore CX) at a huge competitive disadvantage.</font>

As long as you are booked in the right booking "code," it doesn't matter who you pay, and how much you paid. Also, the economy class earning restrictions only apply to AA's program. One can earn miles in MPO even on cheapie fares booked in K, M, L, S.

The discounted J fares are usually booked in D or I, which are eligible for AA accrual. I've paid only $2200 for most of my transpacific trips and I know that's even less than a full B or Y on the same route, but I got full mileage plus class-of-service bonues, and the then Repeats Offer Bonus Personal Edition.....



[This message has been edited by jkc22 (edited Mar 11, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chiangi:
All the seats in rows 20 and 21 are somehow already assigned.

Does this aircraft have an exit row in business class?</font>

row 20 and 21 are usually blocked and released by the airport.

no exit row in J; 11 and 19 are the bulkhead rows.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chiangi:

All the seats in rows 20 and 21 are somehow already assigned.

</font>

I think these are reserved mostly for op-upgrade pax at the last minute.

miki13331, fakecd, thank you.

So the crew can guess who operationals are. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

If row 19 is bulkhead, rows 19-21 is a smaller compartment, I suppose. Good to know.

I am in row 11 now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by eamus:
Do unpublished fares qualify for mileage earning?</font>

i know someone who flew YVR-HKG-AKL v.v. on CX in Y with stopover in HK both ways from Jade Tours and that ticket was issued under M class and was eligible for mileage accrual under Asia Miles but not under AAdvantage. it was cheap too considering the distance you are flying. the ticket was about C$1900 during low season.

Mileage accrual has nothing to do with whether a ticket is sold under IATA cartel rules or as a net/unpublished fare. It's the booking class that matters. Some markets even have net fares sold under H, which will get you AAdvantage miles.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jakob:
i know someone who flew YVR-HKG-AKL v.v. on CX in Y with stopover in HK both ways from Jade Tours and that ticket was issued under M class and was eligible for mileage accrual under Asia Miles but not under AAdvantage. it was cheap too considering the distance you are flying. the ticket was about C$1900 during low season.</font>


I got it for C$2069 in L class, about C$1000 cheaper then QF/NZ.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jakob:
i know someone who flew YVR-HKG-AKL v.v. on CX in Y with stopover in HK both ways from Jade Tours and that ticket was issued under M class and was eligible for mileage accrual under Asia Miles but not under AAdvantage. it was cheap too considering the distance you are flying. the ticket was about C$1900 during low season.</font>

Actually, that's still expensive. That's the ticket I always buy and get it for approx CDN$1750 also in low season. Yes it's dirt cheap. The trick is, to add a side trip within Asia, which can be done for mere CDN$250.

I get itinery of YVR-HKG-NRT-SPK(by land)-HKG-SYD-HKG-YVR for only CDN$2000. The best thing about these tickets is
1) 1 year open changes can be made free of charge
2) total of 4 stopover in HKG
3) Relatively easy to secure M-clas

Mmmmmmm. Given that CX830 leaves HKG at 10:15, and CX831 arrives in HKG at 2010, what do you think the "connection" market is ? I assume that CX wants to facilitate passengers transiting to/from India and Southeast Asia, but this schedule doesn't look very do-able.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by zhaobao:
Mmmmmmm. Given that CX830 leaves HKG at 10:15, and CX831 arrives in HKG at 2010, what do you think the "connection" market is ? I assume that CX wants to facilitate passengers transiting to/from India and Southeast Asia, but this schedule doesn't look very do-able. </font>

It seems like that CX dosen't want any pax connecting to/from India or SE Asia on this flight. All they want are the high revenue flyers whose final destination is HKG.

I suspect that any "net fare contracts" which they hold with ethnic East Indian consolidators would say something like: NOT VALID ON CX831/830 and force these pax to take either the 1 stop flight (stopping at YVR CX 889/888) or route through either SFO or LAX on the codeshare operated by AA.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brian828:
I guess another fact on such scheduling is that CX only has 3 A346s. They will be used for Sydney and New York services. This schedule can probably make their scheduling easier. (Arriving 8pm can allow the plane for the late night Sydney departure or for overnight maintanence)</font>

Only 3? Wow, if something goes wrong (mechanical problem etc...) at JFK for example a whole new plane wilL have to be flown in and it may not be the same one with the same seat assignments etc....