Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Taiwan bans Hong Kong residents for 1 month

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/TP256059.htm

Taiwan said on Friday it would suspend for one month issuing landing visas to Hong Kong residents to curb the spread of the deadly SARS virus, effective at midnight.


"The government has decided to temporarily suspend landing visas to Hong Kong residents for one month in hopes of slowing their entry during this peak infection period of the disease," said the Mainland Affairs Council in a statement.

The council, the cabinet's agency in charge of China policy, said there would be a two-day grace period for Hong Kong travellers who have already booked air tickets.

The council said it would still take applications for other types of visas and would offer express service for Hong Kong residents who show proof of having to travel to Taiwan for urgent reasons.

Taiwan issued an average of 709 landing visas a day to Hong Kong residents in March, but that had dropped sharply to 309 a day in April, the council said. The visas last for 14 days.

Taiwan has 49 probable cases of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, still a relatively low number even though cases have spiked in the past few days after a local hospital was infected. But Taiwan fears its close business ties with China and Hong Kong could lead to a bigger outbreak.

This is simply absurd.

Thankfully, many HK residents also hold American, British, Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand passports, which would not be affected at all.

This is another example of governmental policies that brings harm to the less mobile general public.

So why not suspend ALL landing visas?

[This message has been edited by B-HXB (edited 04-26-2003).]

No. Unfortunately certain people on this forum are no different than the uninformed reporters which are causing the panic. The headline of this thread is wrong misleading. Taiwan simply suspended landing visas to discourage travel. Hongkong residents can still get normal visas.

The suspension of landing visas is intended to a) discourage unnecessary travel and b) offer the ability for officials to conduct health checks before issuing visa (not yet implemented) - i.e. keeping airport and aircraft safer. Suspension of landing visas is a common, circumspect and totally rational measure, used by all nations on a regular basis.

Taiwan is also considering suspension of ALL landing visas in the next weeks as SARS cases in Taiwan are increasing.

More restrictions on China travel needed, premier says
A LONG STAY: The Cabinet is considering implementing compulsory quarantine of between 10 and 14 days for all travelers arriving from China, Hong Kong or Macau
By Ko Shu-ling
STAFF REPORTER Sunday, Apr 27, 2003
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/04/27/203653

This is getting ridiculous. They might as well shutdown all HKG-TPE traffic. From WSJ online:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Starting immediately, foreigners arriving in Taiwan from countries hit hard by SARS will be quarantined for 10 days at government-designated quarters yet to be announced....... All violators, foreign or Taiwanese, can be jailed for up to two years or fined a maximum of NT$300,000 (US$8,600) ....... The government is revoking visa-free entry privileges for the next two weeks for citizens of countries that previously had such rights, Mr. Yu added. Such countries include Singapore, Germany, the U.S. and Canada.

But even with health certificates, people will be quarantined on arrival from countries on the World Health Organization's list of "hardest-hit" places, Mr. Yu said. Hong Kong, Vietnam, Toronto and parts of mainland China have borne the brunt of the outbreak.
</font>


[This message has been edited by TerryK (edited 04-27-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TerryK:
The government is revoking visa-free entry privileges for the next two weeks for citizens of countries that previously had such rights, Mr. Yu added. Such countries include Singapore, Germany, the U.S. and Canada.

But even with health certificates, people will be quarantined on arrival from countries on the World Health Organization's list of "hardest-hit" places, Mr. Yu said. Hong Kong, Vietnam, Toronto and parts of mainland China have borne the brunt of the outbreak.
</font>


[This message has been edited by TerryK (edited 04-27-2003).]

Does it mean we need a Visa to go to Taiwan and might be quarantined?

Yes, you would need a visa. I am not sure about the quarantine since I have trouble reading this funny English. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

http://203.65.72.83/En/dpc/ShowPublication.ASP?RecNo=872

I'm back, I had to clarify the WSJ report. The United States and Germany are not on the list. It was written to include those countries as a group that receive visas on entry, when in fact has nothing to do with Taiwan's policy during this 2 week period. Shame on the WSJ and typical unethical journalism to create more scare than factual consideration.

SHADO

[This message has been edited by SHADO (edited 04-28-2003).]

I bought an ex-TPE ticket earlier because of the cheaper fares on F/J on CX ex-TPE vs ex-HKG...now I am thinking, if I need to start the ticket...if I am just gonna fly HKG-TPE and then connect directly back TPE-HKG and onward to my destination...I probably do not need a visa anyway (because just air-side transfer), and should not be affected by this new policy too much and should have no problem...am I right in this assumption ??

In principle I think so, but the problem is likely to be that there will be very very few HKG-TPE flights for as long as this situation persists.

Starting April 28, all arrivals from Singapore, Hong Kong, Viet Nam, China and Canada must undergo compulsory 10-day quarantine in Taiwan (airport hotel, own house and company, or quarantine facility). 33 flights have been cancelled this Monday alone. EVA Air is threatening to stop operations if the government does not revoke this measure.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
Starting April 28, all arrivals from Singapore, Hong Kong, Viet Nam, China and Canada must undergo compulsory 10-day quarantine in Taiwan </font>

CX checkin staff at SIN said something similar about half an hour ago. I was a bit too jetlagged to believe it (I was changing my reservation to a May flight anyhows). The agent said it was a new deal and effective today.

I'm going to cancel my JFK-HKG-TPE with CX... don't want to be quarantined for 10 days (along with my parents in Taiwan) just for having connected at HKG.

Edit (for jiml1126) - flying ANA now... got asked if I want to sit by myself on NRT-TPE, so maybe that's the new ClubANA Asia cabin.

It's really unfortunate that I can't stick with CX this time.

[This message has been edited by stratifier (edited 04-28-2003).]

[This message has been edited by stratifier (edited 04-28-2003).]

The free 14 day Visa for citizen's of the USA has been revoked for the next 2 weeks. You may need to get a health form from your doctor stating that you are in good health. God forbid if you arrive with an elevated temprature--they will quarnteen you for sure.

How are the airlines based there going to survive?

Talk about overkill.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is overkill. Had China taken the measures that are currently taking place around the world, maybe this mess would not be as bad as it is. This small countermeasure could go a long way to saving lives. When healthy young people are dropping dead it is a cause of worry for many.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
The free 14 day Visa for citizen's of the USA has been revoked for the next 2 weeks. You may need to get a health form from your doctor stating that you are in good health. God forbid if you arrive with an elevated temprature--they will quarnteen you for sure.

How are the airlines based there going to survive?

Talk about overkill.</font>

Forget China. If HKG had stamped on SARS the same way that Taiwan and Singapore has, I bet it would have suffered less total damage.

Right now, the health dep't in HKG has been discredited multiple times and the panic is stronger because people now feel they can't trust the gov't press releases.

In a crisis like this, the most important thing (besides a cure) is confidence. If the public doesn't trust you, then your ability to fix the problem is severely hampered.

The funny thing is that Taiwan, in all fairness, is small compared to a country like Canada, where the only major SARS infections seem to have been concentrated, is in Toronto. And yet, rather than just cautioning travellers coming from that city, they are banning travel for all Canadians. Which could also mean half of HongKong! (But that's understandable then).

[/quote]Forget China. If HKG had stamped on SARS the same way that Taiwan and Singapore has, I bet it would have suffered less total damage. [/quote] How could Hong Kong done things any better (without the help of hindsight)? Close their border with the China? Hong Kong is showing promising signs of getting ahead of the SARS curve. It looks like the one thing people should be more afraid of than SARS is the fear of SARS.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
How could Hong Kong done things any better (without the help of hindsight)? Close their border with the China? Hong Kong is showing promising signs of getting ahead of the SARS curve. It looks like the one thing people should be more afraid of than SARS is the fear of SARS.</font>

Hong Kong could have...

1) Not lied about the extent of SARS infection

2) Set up checkpoints at the land transfer points the way Singapore did.

3) Set up strict quarantines the way Singapore and Taiwan did.

Of the 3, the most important one is #1, because all of HKG's efforts from here on out is hampered by their loss of credibility from #1.

As WHO has now declared Vietnam free of SARS, a look at their course of action might be instructive.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/04/28/75092-ap.html

Vietnam didn't have more resources than HKG. What they had was a government willing to admit it had a major problem instead of trying to sweep it under the rug.

[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 04-28-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Hong Kong could have...

1) Not lied about the extent of SARS infection

</font>

You seem cynical about HK government in your posts, but may I ask where did you get the idea that HK government has lied about the extent of infection?

Okay, maybe I was riding Kangaroos for too long and must have missed something. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

(edited for spelling)


[This message has been edited by fakecd (edited 04-28-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Hong Kong could have...

1) Not lied about the extent of SARS infection
</font>

When did they do this??

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:

2) Set up checkpoints at the land transfer points the way Singapore did.

</font>

Surly you realize the STAGGERING difference in land traffic into Hong Kong vs. Singapore – there is no possible comparison – what you are suggesting is the equivalent of testing everyone coming into Manhattan every day.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B Watson:
Surely you realize the STAGGERING difference in land traffic into Hong Kong vs. Singapore – there is no possible comparison – what you are suggesting is the equivalent of testing everyone coming into Manhattan every day.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Vietnam didn't have more resources than HKG. What they had was a government willing to admit it had a major problem instead of trying to sweep it under the rug.

</font> How has Hong Kong tried to hide this under a rug. If the doctor who is seen as the primary source for spreading SARS into Hong Kong had flown into Singapore instead, would that have made a difference?

The only thing that kept SARS from turning Vietnam into a meltdown was the WHO doctor from Italy who flew over to Vietnam and demanded that greater prevention methods be used in areas that were treating SARS victims. That Doctor (who later died) should take credit, not the Vietnam govt.

A quick search in Google yields

http://www.hongkong.org/press/ny_031403.htm

"New York (March 14, 2003) - Hong Kong Secretary for Health, Welfare and Food, Dr. Yeoh Eng-kiong said the recent respiratory infection is confined to hospitals in Hong Kong and has not spread into the community."

http://www.hongkong.org/press/ny_031703.htm

" Dr Yeoh reiterated that the new cases are still confined to the hospitals, and there is no evidence to suggest that the disease has spread to the community.

He added that Hong Kong is still a safe place, with a highly effective disease surveillance and control system in place. With its high quality medical and public health services, Hong Kong is safe for local residents and visitors."

http://www.hongkong.org/press/ny_032603.htm

"New York (March 26, 2003) - Hong Kong Chief Executive Tung Chee Hwa said the spread of atypical pneumonia is posing a real health risk to Hong Kong and more effective measures are needed to prevent the virus from further spreading. "

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/504jlpnl.asp

"In Hong Kong, under Chinese rule for nearly 6 years, the leadership has shown similar inclinations. The Beijing-appointed chief executive, Tung Chee-wha, eliminated the negative and accentuated the positive. He initially resisted tough measures to isolate the disease and touted the efforts of Hong Kong's scientists to identify the virus (which were, by all accounts, impressive). But two weeks later, he ordered schools shut and a quarantine of those infected. Meanwhile, Tung's Secretary of Health, Welfare and Food, Yeoh Eng-kiong has lashed out at the WHO for causing panic and accused Hong Kong's lawmakers of "sowing discord" after they called him to a public hearing on the outbreak. "

------------------

On March 10th, while HKG still claims the disease is contained, Vietnam had initiated a strong quarantine and called in WHO experts.

By March 26th, when HKG is "considering" invoking its quarantine laws, Vietnam was already nearly at the end of its problems.

Singapore may not have the kind of air passenger traffic that HKG has, but it certainly has far more migrant workers. They stopped that as well, and set up quarantine areas suitable for thousands. What did HKG do?

While HKG might have had western-style gov't officials in the past, they have the same kind of politicians today that Beijing has. We know how the Beijing politicians acted, and the HKG ones are the same. If they had their way, the whole thing would have been swept under the rug.

[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 04-28-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
The free 14 day Visa for citizen's of the USA has been revoked for the next 2 weeks. You may need to get a health form from your doctor stating that you are in good health. God forbid if you arrive with an elevated temprature--they will quarnteen you for sure.
How are the airlines based there going to survive? Talk about overkill.</font>

So this is true? I originally was told it was not. Oh well, it's just 2 weeks as rates are decreasing. I understand the idea of wanting to fight it off, but obviously the idea of banning countries that don't have it is more a political move than a practical move for citizen safety.....much like France and see where it got them.

SHADO

Hong Kong's response to Sars, compared with that of Singapore.

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501030414-441242,00.html

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Although doctors and scientists decline to point fingers, it's increasingly clear that the Hong Kong government failed to recognize the potential threat when SARS first surfaced and downplayed its impact to avoid panic and bad publicity. </font>

The question to ask is did Hong Kong "lie" about it (like the people up North), did they try to conceal numbers or SARS cases, or did they underestimate how easy SARS was in its ability to spread?

I think everybody should be forgiving.
Who could have known how contagious SARS would be or not be? Maybe by taking strong action, it would have been an overreaction, scare people too much, and destroy the economy unnecesarily. Or by underreacting, you kill many many people needlessly, maybe it would spread to a place like india where it could kill huge numbers. It is easy to judge with hindsight, but who could have known? Nobody really knew. So mistakes were made and we can learn from it for the future. I think it's not good to be too harsh for what happened til now. Even now it is hard to say exactly what is the right thing to do. Should we take very strong measures, to stop a big spread? Maybe it will save us from having to do even more extreme things in the future. Or maybe it would be stupid and ruinous, since it seems to be ending already in most places. Who knows. Even now the virus and the whole situation could change quickly. At the moment it really looks like it is coming under control quickly in most places, hopefully it will stay like that.

To all those who claim that the HK government swept over Sars: do you honestly think you could have done any better, or done things differently given the information you had at the time, than HK did? My guess is that when the news media first pieced together the Sars stories, buried in the middle of a news bulletin or squeezed into a small paragraph in the middle of the newspaper, you rolled your eyes much like 99% of the rest of the world.

I know I did.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B-HXB:
To all those who claim that the HK government swept over Sars: do you honestly think you could have done any better, or done things differently given the information you had at the time, than HK did? My guess is that when the news media first pieced together the Sars stories, buried in the middle of a news bulletin or squeezed into a small paragraph in the middle of the newspaper, you rolled your eyes much like 99% of the rest of the world.

I know I did. </font>

Perhaps you did. But hopefully you're not a public health official in charge of protecting the population from diseases like this. Especially with recent history of infections from China, Hong Kong should twice as cautious any time something crops up.

Again, I invite you to compare HKG's response to Vietnam or Singapore or Taiwan's response.

And to quote from the article Chiangi linked...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Some question why Hong Kong, with its sophisticated medical infrastructure and experience with similar outbreaks—the city effectively contained a deadly avian-flu epidemic in 1997—was caught off guard. Local radio talk-show host Albert Cheng puts it bluntly: "The government wanted to show the foreign press that Hong Kong is not in crisis and that everything is under control." </font>

The difference between 1997 and 2003 is the quality of government officials. Back then, you still had the British colonial authorities in charge, and they had no interest in lying about a crisis to preserve face. In 2003, there is no difference between Hong Kong's officials and Beijing's. They are all from the same pool of ...-covering Communist Party bureaucrats.

[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 05-04-2003).]

Another hindsight piece? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif Commending the WHO for acting as quickly as it could, and chronicling China's reluctance to be open.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/04/health/04WHO.html?th

Well, next time, if there is one, I hope everyone will act more swiftly and forestall any damage an epidemic could inflict on my beloved airline.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Because the W.H.O. does not have enough money to field its own teams, it must send volunteers. The C.D.C. in Atlanta is the biggest contributor but, W.H.O. officials said, some countries are about as eager to see American health inspectors as Iraq was to see American arms inspectors.
</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

While he is not ruling China, isn't Tung Chee-hwa one of the highest paid heads of government, more than Bush?

The Red Cross, ICRC, relocated its Asian regional headquarters from HKG when HKG was reverted to China, for fear of possible unwarranted meddling by Beijing. Its Asian headquarters are now in Bangkok (after Tokyo declined to accommodate it).

[This message has been edited by Chiangi (edited 05-04-2003).]