Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - HK F/As at CX

Can anyone tell me what is the percentage of HK national F/As among of all the F/As at CX? Thanks!

You'll need to define the question a bit better: do you mean HK resident? Or ethnically Chinese + Cantonese speaking? Or what?

The concept of "HK national" is not really defined - if you are born here (and ethnically Chinese) your citizenship is Chinese. But I (being born in the UK) am a HK resident, and if I stay another couple of years I could be a permanent resident, and if I really wanted to after that I could apply for a HK passport.

If you mean in some slightly loose sense "Chinese people born in HK", then my guess is somewhere around 40%-50%. I have only ever seen one ethnically pure-European face in the CX cabin crew.

let's define as HK permanent resident.

it was below 30-40% at some point 3-4 years ago. then CX did som emarket research and found that most of its passengers are HK people and would prefer HK F/A.
they then made an effort to increase the 'local' %. i think 40-50% is about right for today

Thanks for eveyone's responses. I am sorry for not clarify my question. What I meant of HK national is ethnic Chinese who was born in HK and can speak Cantonese. I know CX recruits F/As from all over Asia, such as India and Japan but not Caucasians.

I have had a few Caucasians (maybe 3 or 4), but a FA told me one time that CX is more actively recruiting Chinese, as pegasus pointed out, but that they also are phasing out certain other Asian cultures. In her particular case, it was Filipino. She also mentioned Indian FAs. Needless to say, this was one person's opinions and observations, and I have no idea of the accuracy in reality.

FWIW, darren is right.

the reason was Indian and Philipinos are good english speaker and takes low wages. therefore they were "over-represented" in the past decade.
(meanwhile as the wages rise in HK, and the cost to travel is a lot lower, F/A is not as attractive as a career for young girls in HK.)

by "over-represented" i mean you see a lot more of them in routes not related to their home country.
e.g. couple of years ago you probably had 30-50% philipinos in north american/european route (a lot higher in manila/cebu route). this is what they were trying to correct after listening to the local HK cantonese speaking customers

from the business perspective (both cost and customer preference), i believe philipino FA will still dominate MNL/Cebu route, and Indian BOM/DEH routes.


[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 08-22-2002).]

Personally, I would like CX to hire more non-Chinese F/As, because it gives CX an Asian airline image as opposed to a HK based airline which it is trying to do now.

I completely agree. A few caucasians would also give it a more international flair. Not that the Caucasians are better FAs, mind you.

the only non-chinese F/As cathay are hiring are from taipei, japan, and korea.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by gear down:
the only non-chinese F/As cathay are hiring are from taipei, japan, and korea.</font>

Er, Taipei = "non-chinese"???

CX does have a Caucasian F/A base in YVR, however you can only see her either on the YVR or JFK flights - First or Bz Class regularly becos of her ranking as a Senior Purser she is a Canadian who speaks English/Japanese.

Well many people in Taiwan do not consider themself to be Chinese but are Taiwanese !

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif) well..maybe some 30-50% wanted independence in taiwan, but ethnically only the "highlanders" are "non chinese"?
(in fact, anthropologist said the highlanders, ancestors to the philipinos/indonesians/pacific islanders, came from southern china also)

anyway...that statement is not true.
there are non-chinese from thailand, india, philipines, korea/etc.

they should hire non-chinese from european/american though

[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 08-25-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pegasus8228:
they should hire non-chinese from european/american though</font>

Why on earth would they want to do that?

In my experience, one of the big reasons I choose to fly CX rather than, say, BA/QF/AA is that CX doesn't have loads of old, burnt out, miserable, and frankly just plain bad FAs working for them. I think CX management understands this, which is why there are almost no ethnically European FAs on Cathay. The Asian teams that CX hires actually seem to enjoy their job and do it consistently very well.

Of course, the fact that CX FAs are much better looking as well is a bonus http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

...i agree with u, just thought it should be a good mix.

maybe they did open their position to everyone (they couldn't do otherwise due to "equaly opportunity"/etc, i suppose)
it is perhaps what you said that determined who CX eventually hired. (well, plus the language requirement, maybe)

...although i still think it is management/training/corp culture, rather than ethnicity, that determines their work ethics and attitudes.


[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 08-25-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:
Why on earth would they want to do that?

In my experience, one of the big reasons I choose to fly CX rather than, say, BA/QF/AA is that CX doesn't have loads of old, burnt out, miserable, and frankly just plain bad FAs working for them. I think CX management understands this, which is why there are almost no ethnically European FAs on Cathay. The Asian teams that CX hires actually seem to enjoy their job and do it consistently very well.

Of course, the fact that CX FAs are much better looking as well is a bonus http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>

Christep: Couldn't agree more. I had the (mis)fortune of flying CO in biz first cabin to EWR last summer when CX stopped the YVR-JFK leg. Wow, what an eye opener. Some of the crabbiest, road-ravaged, "you ask me for a coke and I'll kill you" looking FA's I've ever seen. At first I was upset at the treatment - then I laughed when I realized what a joke the CO product is. I assume these planes are hauling lots of freight to be breaking even.

CO is obviously battling for market share on price and not quality. (Anyone know what yields these EWR-HKG flights have?) If my company ever tries to fly me to NY on CO instead of CX, I'll pay the difference and stay with CX!

Hi,

Not sure if you are ethnically Chinese, Chris, as you only said you were born in the UK. My understanding is that unless you are ethnically Chinese, a Hong Kong SAR passport will not be available - wasnt that the problem (still is) for the minorities that the British left behind , such as Indians and Pakinstanis - I think the international press reported that they were rendered stateless by the 1997 handover.

Cheers,

Incy.



<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">

The concept of "HK national" is not really defined - if you are born here (and ethnically Chinese) your citizenship is Chinese. But I (being born in the UK) am a HK resident, and if I stay another couple of years I could be a permanent resident, and if I really wanted to after that I could apply for a HK passport.
[/B]</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
Not sure if you are ethnically Chinese, Chris, as you only said you were born in the UK. My understanding is that unless you are ethnically Chinese, a Hong Kong SAR passport will not be available - wasnt that the problem (still is) for the minorities that the British left behind , such as Indians and Pakinstanis - I think the international press reported that they were rendered stateless by the 1997 handover.
</font>

No - I am ethnically European. And yes there used to be a problem with stateless HK-born people (often third or fourth generation HK-born) who were not ethnically Chinese. However, in recent months there has been a lot of press coverage of the fact that this problem now seems to have gone away and a number of ethnically non-Chinese have been granted HK passports. One of the first was in fact ethnically European - the the Head of the Hong Kong Tourist Authority decided that maybe he would be more credible if he carried a HK passport rather than a British one, and it was duly granted. (Although the press implied that the required reasonable level of fluency in a Chinese language was apparently unusually low in his case!)

I must have missed this news. BTW - what is the name of the Head of Tourism you were referring to? I thought he was Chinese?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:
No - I am ethnically European. And yes there used to be a problem with stateless HK-born people (often third or fourth generation HK-born) who were not ethnically Chinese. However, in recent months there has been a lot of press coverage of the fact that this problem now seems to have gone away and a number of ethnically non-Chinese have been granted HK passports. One of the first was in fact ethnically European - the the Head of the Hong Kong Tourist Authority decided that maybe he would be more credible if he carried a HK passport rather than a British one, and it was duly granted. (Although the press implied that the required reasonable level of fluency in a Chinese language was apparently unusually low in his case!)</font>

The current one is Chinese, but at the time the Commissioner for Tourism was Mike Rowse (he is now Director General of InvestHK). See, for example:

http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/25/hk.expats/

Incy Wincy I ask again - please do not use the "" quoted reply and just leave the whole of the previous post copied again in your reply - it adds nothing and irritates everyone. If it is obvious what point you are referring to then please don't copy whole posts again. You can simply reply using the "Post Reply" button at the bottom of the thread.

You will also find articles from the South China Morning Posts of 2, 3, 5 & 15 December last year on the issue of HK-born ethnic South Asians now being granted Chinese citizenship and HKSAR passports. You can download them from http://www.scmp.com but you will need to be a subscriber or pay.

Sorry, that wasnt intended. I cant quite fathom this - I highlighted the particular text and then licked on the inverted commas, but still, everything was quoted, not just the part I highlighted. I assume something must have been done incorrectly?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:

Incy Wincy I ask again - please do not use the "" quoted reply and just leave the whole of the previous post copied again in your reply </font>

Wouldn't it be easier for you to just click on the "Post Reply" button on the lower left hand corner of each post?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Guy Betsy:
Wouldn't it be easier for you to just click on the "Post Reply" button on the lower left hand corner of each post?</font>

I agree. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
Sorry, that wasnt intended. I cant quite fathom this - I highlighted the particular text and then licked on the inverted commas, but still, everything was quoted, not just the part I highlighted. I assume something must have been done incorrectly?

</font>

Alas, as you have now learned, the quote option will require you to edit your post to delete anything you do not want to included. Also, FT etiquette usually indicates that if you do quote a previous post that you should add your text BELOW the quote - it is far easier to read this way.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Also, FT etiquette usually indicates that if you do quote a previous post that you should add your text BELOW the quote - it is far easier to read this way.[/B]</font>

Thanks, Mr. Watson.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Taipei:
Well many people in Taiwan do not consider themself to be Chinese but are Taiwanese !</font>

Ahem ... Isn't the formal national name for Taiwan the *Republic of China*? The Founding Father Taiwan prides itself as having is Dr. Sun Yat Sen, the Father of the Chinese Republic.

*Taiwan* is used really to conveniently differentiate it from the Big China - *the People's Republic of China* aka *PRC*.

If what you say is right - the world would surely have a lot fewer troubles since there wouldn't be two countries both insisting that it is China.

However, the indisputable reality is that both China and Taiwan insist that it is *the only China*, to the exclusion of the other. The rest of the world must therefore choose between the two. The US recognises only the PRC as China. That is why officials of Taiwan, including its President, canNOT travel to the US in any official capacity. Even personal visits are avoided like the plague. Official ranks of Taiwan will not be recognised by the US Govt.

It may be that some/most Taiwanese see themselves are different species from the Mainland Chinese, yet this does not mean they do not consider themselves to be Chinese.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
Ahem ... Isn't the formal national name for Taiwan the *Republic of China*? The Founding Father Taiwan prides itself as having is Dr. Sun Yat Sen, the Father of the Chinese Republic.

....

It may be that some/most Taiwanese see themselves are different species from the Mainland Chinese, yet this does not mean they do not consider themselves to be Chinese.</font>

It's a social phenomenon.

Consider the fact that prior to the Nationalist loss to the Communists, Taiwan already had a significant local population. Then the native "Taiwanese" found themselves essentially occupied by the defeated Nationalist Army and then flooded with refugees.

They weren't pleased. Doubly so when the Nationalists proceeded to put an essentially fascist government into place and started exterminating the existing culture by mandating the use of Mandarin, along with other discriminatory measures.

So, yes, there definitely is Taiwanese, in addition to Chinese. In fact, for most of China's history as an unified kingdom people identified themselves by the province they can from. Each province had its own eccentricities. That's on top of being Chinese.

Some people consider themselves Chinese from Taiwan. Others consider themselves Taiwanese Chinese. Big difference.

The "native" Chinese in Taiwan share a similar (if not the same) dialect with those just across the Strait of Formosa (Fujian/fukien/hokkien). The non-Chinese Taiwan aboriginals are an (IIRC) austro-asiatic race which according to some anthropologists using linguistic tracing, managed to spread from Taiwan (after being pushed there from the mainland by Han chinese) to populate the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Madagascar (long hop across the Indian ocean with no evident stops anywhere en route), the Solomons and then Polynesia Pacific (as far east as Easter Island and as far south as New Zealand).

Oops hit the button twice!

[This message has been edited by IncyWincy (edited 02-09-2003).]

Yes, Plato and Terenz. I was referring to Christep's reply way back in August to gear down's post (scroll up), the point that FAs from Taipei are not Chinese.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
Yes, Plato and Terenz. I was referring to Christep's reply way back in August to gear down's post (scroll up), the point that FAs from Taipei are not Chinese.</font>

Actually, it was gear down who referred to FA's from Taipei as being non-Chinese.

My comments should be taken in context with Taipei's comment. Some people do indeed consider themselves purely Taiwanese as far as nationality is concerned. Culturally still Chinese, of course. The label "Chinese" exists on a lot of different levels.

Well in fact I think most Taiwanese have no problem being called Chinese, but they would also like you know they are Taiwanese not from China. You can say Taiwanese are Chinese but not all Chinese are Taiwanese. I have a friend, CX flight attendant is Taiwanese, but based in HKG, she prefers to be called Taiwanese, to let people know she is from Taiwan, not China. People (most but not all, keep in mind Taiwan people have many opions on this) in Taiwan I think prefer be call Taiwan, as souce of pride and also because they are different from the mainland. Yes Taiwan calls itself ROC (Rep. of China), and many would like to change this, but China (Mainland) does not want this and says if Taiwan does this, it will send the Army to Taiwan to stop this, this is big problem and no easy solution to it, since most Taiwanese do not want to be part of China, but China belives Taiwan is part of China. For me I am JapaneseAmerican in Taiwan, so its interesting to see all this, and its a complex issue, so Plato90 would you prefer TaiwaneseAmerican, ChineseAmerican or other term, just curious?
Also I wonder does Cathay call thier Taiwanese flight attendents Chinese or Taiwanese or both , I will ask next time !

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Taipei:
Also I wonder does Cathay call thier Taiwanese flight attendents Chinese or Taiwanese or both , I will ask next time !</font>

Cathay would just call them Chinese. Don't want to get the company involved in local politics.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Cathay would just call them Chinese. Don't want to get the company involved in local politics.</font>

Probably so. And it wouldn't even be *local politics* since Cathay is Hong Kong based.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Taipei:
I have a friend, CX flight attendant is Taiwanese, but based in HKG, she prefers to be called Taiwanese, to let people know she is from Taiwan, not China... Taiwan people ...prefer be call Taiwan, as souce of pride and also because they are different from the mainland. </font>

Likewise, many/most HK people, while accepting that they are Chinese, emphasize that they are HONG KONG Chinese or Hong Kongers as a matter of pride and special identity. This is so much so that despite the Handover in 1997, when filling in forms etc, many HK people put *Hong Kong* as their country as opposed to *China*.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
And it wouldn't even be *local politics* since Cathay is Hong Kong based.</font>

This is debatable. When my friend was in the a/c leasing business (for a very large U.S. bank), all the management who made decisions made on a/c leasing were based in London, not H.K. Being based in H.K. was only good for dealing with the Asian airlines. As for dealing with CX, it was easier from the bank's NYC HQ.

CX is HK's flag carrier. That much is beyond dispute.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IncyWincy:
CX is HK's flag carrier.</font>

The only flag I have ever seen on a CX plane is the Swire company one. Maybe I should look harder for the HK flag next time I am at the airport.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:
The only flag I have ever seen on a CX plane is the Swire company one. Maybe I should look harder for the HK flag next time I am at the airport.</font>

Dear Chris,

You are probably correct that CX does not carry the Bauhinia flag (I am not sure). But this is what it says of itself on its webpage - Hong Kong is our home, and we're proud of it.

http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutus/community/0,,,00.html

Cheers,
Incy.

In iMail's article of Feb 2002, CX was described as HK's de facto flag carrier -

http://www.airlinequality.com/news/cathay.htm

There aren't many.

I had the pleasure of flying with Catherine the other day between JFK and HKG. She's the blond haired Canadian girl who gives CX passengers something to talk about. Especially when she comes aboard in her blue senior purser uniform and black cheongsam like skirt. Most people do a double take and think that she's a ground crew.

She has all the charm and wit of a courteous Cathay Pacific flight attendant. I'd like to see her in a Cathay Pacific ad one day. So that people will know that not all cabin crew are Asians.

Incidentally, Catherine told me that London has opened up its FA base, and there are 2 other occidental English gents in the CX cabin crew. They also speak Japanese as do Catherine.

I bet she raises a few eyebrows when she has to address/assist Japanese passengers aboard.

sorry to dig an old thread out, but for your info, breakdown as follows:

HKG 44.25%
PHL 12.5
JPN 9.19
MYS 6.68
SIN 5.11
IND 4.92
THA 4.23
KOR 4.11
TWN 3.63
CAN 2.69
IDN 1.87
MU (CHINA EASTERN) 0.69
SRI 0.12

as of March 2004

I completely agree. A few caucasians would also give it a more international flair. Not that the Caucasians are better FAs, mind you.

No caucasians please have you ever flown any N American airlines, we don't need that I belong to union attitude on CX. I like CX and the crew that they have. ;)

sorry to dig an old thread out, but for your info, breakdown as follows:

HKG 44.25%
PHL 12.5
JPN 9.19
MYS 6.68
SIN 5.11
IND 4.92
THA 4.23
KOR 4.11
TWN 3.63
CAN 2.69
IDN 1.87
MU (CHINA EASTERN) 0.69
SRI 0.12

as of March 2004

Interesting stat. How many F/As does CX have?

IND & IDN... which one's Indonesia and which one's India?

IND & IDN... which one's Indonesia and which one's India?

IND = INDIA


IDN = INDONESIA

number of F/As broken down into category

ISM 460 (7%)
SP 887 (15.32)
FP 1836 (31.71)
BC 2607 (45.03)
TOTAL 5790