Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Confirmed economy seat for Diamond?

Hi, I just wanted to get the experts' opinions before moving ahead. I've had to book myself on an M class round-trip BKK-YVR around Chinese New Year. Needless to say, my travel agent has me in as a waitlist at the moment. I thought (but I'm not sure) that Diamond status entitles me to a guaranteed seat on ANY economy sub-class booking (within 24 hours). I asked the person at the desk here in the lounge in HK, but she also wasn't sure. I'm guessing that people on this board may be better informed than some CX staff, so this is my big question. If I do get this guarantee, then it's OK. If not, I'll have to think about changing flights somehow....Any wisdom out there?

Yes, you can force CX to open up a seat for you even when that subclass is closed.

MPC is the best place to call. They will either issue KL (seat confirmed) for your travel agent's PNR or just clear the waitlist on CX's PNR, which may not be reflected in your agent's PNR. But it's still confirmed and you can check it on CX's web site.

Agreed. Call the MPC. They will confirm the seat for you immediately provided that you meet all of the other conditions of the ticket (you may need to fax them a copy of the ticket to achieve this). You can do this any time up to 24 hours in advance (i.e. you are not guaranteed on the flight if you try to make the reservation within 24 hours of departure time).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by christep:
Agreed. Call the MPC. They will confirm the seat for you immediately provided that you meet all of the other conditions of the ticket (you may need to fax them a copy of the ticket to achieve this). You can do this any time up to 24 hours in advance (i.e. you are not guaranteed on the flight if you try to make the reservation within 24 hours of departure time).</font>

Just a thought. If you don't have a confirmed booking, why would you have a ticket issued? Therefore, in such cases, how can you fax it to MPC?

Travel agents can issue many, if not all, tickets even when you are just waitlisted. The ticket in such a case will show HL, instead of HK. I also try to buy open-dated or date-changeable tickets.

christep is right. I forgot to mention that MPC asks for a ticket number as proof that it has been issued. Also, when I didn't have a ticket in hand, MPC has, in the past, confirmed a seat and set a deadline for a ticket purchase for me. I myself never have faxed in a ticket copy for this.

[This message has been edited by Chiangi (edited 12-24-2002).]

just call MPO for the reservation. they should be able to confirm it within a few minutes.
(the agent will ask the supervisor, he needs to approve it)

in fact many of the agents know this trick now, just tell them you are MPO diamond, and they will take care of it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fakecd:
Just a thought. If you don't have a confirmed booking, why would you have a ticket issued?</font>

Perhaps because it is a OWE - many people issue OWEs with the routing confirmed but all coupons open dated.

I have tried to recreate the situation outlined above without an OWE and it is impossible. I tried booking a discounted economy ticket for around 280 dollars TPE-HKG-BKK, waitlist the flight which is sold out through my travel agent, and called MPC. (I am Gold) They told me a full Y fare seat was available to me (&gt;USD 1000)and that they would simultaneously cancel the waitlisted $280 ticket. Am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks everybody. I did inform my travel agent in BKK,and she's already gotten me confirmed on the flights (even with no ticket issued). I'd try to use miles to upgrade, but since they are all around Chinese New Year, I don't think I have any chance (and there is a reasonable shot at op upgrades, I suspect)....

Happy holidays...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
I have tried to recreate the situation outlined above without an OWE and it is impossible. I tried booking a discounted economy ticket for around 280 dollars TPE-HKG-BKK, waitlist the flight which is sold out through my travel agent, and called MPC. (I am Gold) They told me a full Y fare seat was available to me (&gt;USD 1000)and that they would simultaneously cancel the waitlisted $280 ticket. Am I doing something wrong here? </font>

did you give them your original PNR (a 5 alphanumeric code for abacus/cupid)?
they must have made a mistake (maybe it is the agent who is inexperienced) , call them back to explain, and ask to speak to the supervisor if needed.

I agree. If you told them your booking, they will then pull it up. Then you'd tell them that you're MPC Gold and that you'd like them to confirm THAT seat. Normally they run and get their Supervisor who'd confirm the seat right away. It may NOT reflect a KK status on your travel agents' system but a quick call by your agent to CX will solve any questions.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Commuter:
Thanks everybody. I did inform my travel agent in BKK,and she's already gotten me confirmed on the flights (even with no ticket issued). I'd try to use miles to upgrade, but since they are all around Chinese New Year, I don't think I have any chance (and there is a reasonable shot at op upgrades, I suspect)....

Happy holidays...</font>


Getting seats confirmed is one thing. Trying to get award upgrade seats confirmed is another. Unfortunately, being DIAMOND doesn't pull any flak here if revenue seats are and can be sold by CX. This is the only difference is service standards between CX and SQ-PPS. SQ will try and get the upgrade for their PPS members as they usually reserve a few revenue seats which they may convert to award seats at the last minute.

I've also encountered once an agent who did not know this Gold/Diamond benefit. All she could do was to give me priority in the waitlist. I just hang up and got another agent who knew what I was talking about.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Guy Betsy:

Getting seats confirmed is one thing. Trying to get award upgrade seats confirmed is another. Unfortunately, being DIAMOND doesn't pull any flak here if revenue seats are and can be sold by CX. This is the only difference is service standards between CX and SQ-PPS. SQ will try and get the upgrade for their PPS members as they usually reserve a few revenue seats which they may convert to award seats at the last minute.</font>

although i have not tried to book a redemption ticket during chinese new year, marco polo do try to clear diamonds on waitlists for upgrade and redemption travel. they recently cleared me for a first class redemption ticket. i called marco polo a few days later to change flights and even though that flight had no award inventory, a supervisor was able to confirm a seat after a few minutes.

the only problem is trying to get on the waitlist as you need to submit your request at least 3 days in advance so that asia miles can issue the upgrade voucher.

[This message has been edited by miki13331 (edited 12-27-2002).]

I have to disagree with Guy Betsy on this one. Having being a Diamond member with CX and a PPS Club member for over 10 years, I can too speak from experience.

The difference between CX and SQ loyalty programs are not so much different. Both are new in terms of earning and burning points so both are still learning the ropes of handling the demanding frequent flyers like Guy Betsy and others whom have been critical of both CX and SQ at times.

To me, I have found CX pretty okay when it comes to confirming the upgrade seats and even guaranteeing the economy class seats for Diamond members. I have even received SMS messages from CX once my upgrade seat had become available.

On the other hand, with SQ, I had a waitlisted segment from SIN to LHR and I also held a back-up ticket on CX from HKG. As I had my mobile number and local contact details in my PNR, I was not contacted by SQ to suggest that my waitlisted flight had been confirmed. Therefore, I had no way to find out what my status of the booking was and yes, it was also a Sunday!

For CX, you can login to their website with your Marco Polo Club and PIN and go to Personal Itineraries where you will find all your upcoming flights and check the status of your waitlisted flights --- you will not find this on singaporeair.com!

Therefore, we have heard both sides of the story and I must have to admit that SQ PPS Club is by no means anywhere perfect that Guy Betsy is trying to portray! I think both programs have their own obstacles but all in all, I think both programs are good as they belong to the two of the best airlines in the world and there are a few of us who belong to both of these elite programs.

We can only make them better but suggesting that one is better than the other is by no means accurately accounted for. We have to see the pros and cons of both programs but I think CX is way ahead in their Asia Miles earn and burn program than SQ's Krisflyer. On the other hand, PPS Club is for those who patronises SQ in First or Business Class whereas CX Marco Polo Club acknowledges all oneworld flights towards elite status accumulation --- even in Y class travel. Therefore, I think there is more value and loyalty in MPO for myself as CX treats there CX much better inflight than SQ. At least the inflight service manager makes an effort to work around the abin and greet their top elite members. This type of personalisation cannot be found onboard SQ. I am providing some facts not fiction for those whom may be shaking their heads and saying "Another oneworld Fan post".

We post messages on this forum to tell the truth in travel and this is of my opinion and this may vary according to other travellers preference and bias towards their airlines. Although I recognise that there is no such thing as a perfect airline, we must all recognise the strengths and weaknesses of all airlines.

Happy New Year and Best Wishes to all FlyerTalker's.

--Duplicate Post--
See above post

[This message has been edited by oneworld Fan (edited 12-28-2002).]

Unfortunately, Oneworld Fan you have no credibility left as far as SQ is concerned. We know that you simply hate them and would say anything that contradicts our opinions of them.

Have you seen Randy's post on this subject: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum88/HTML/000835.html

Clearly the PPS members have spoken for the programme.

You have a bone to pick with as far as SQ is concerned. I do not favour SQ entirely over CX. It's just that there is a clear and distinct difference between these two top Loyalty schemes and which I am pointing out to members.

We don't see you at SQ's forum anymore... is there a reason?

Uh, sorry, but just to slide the topic back towards reserved seating on CX...I've got the seats, and now I'm thinking-- is it worth trying to blow the 60,000 miles for upgrades to J for this RT flight...Y is all booked out. I'm going BKK-YVR on Jan 28 and then returning to BKK on Feb 12/13.

So, should I bother even trying to upgrade (likely impossible, and I could lose the miles anyways?), or just take my chances with an op upgrade, for the long segments? Any wisdom would be appreciated...

IMO, as Diamond, you'd be UG'd!

Thanks, I hope so. I have no problem with doing the BKK-HKG segment in coach, it's just that killer 12 hour flight that I'm looking for the upgrade. I know Y will be full, but my only fear is that both J and F will also be full!! Then what happens??

check itn.

if Y full, J/F not full. you have a good chance of upg to J
(no guarantee though, say, if one of the tour group cancelled the bookings at the last minutes. butthe chance is pretty high if it is the tourist season.)

if both J/Y are full, then you would have to be seated at Y. however, i would expect the fact that "J is full" means "we have counted the possible upgrades as well, then J is full".
ie. "J full" USUALLY means "total number of J+Y booking exceeds the total number of available seats by a certain %"

Looking at your travel dates (high Y season around Chinese New Year), I'd save the miles and hope for an upgrade. You have a very good chance of getting one. Bring a slepping pill for backup.

FYI - flights from YVR to HKG on 2-4 JAN are chock block full. I'm in F confirmed on 2nd at the 2am flight but am hoping for a seat to open up on the afternoon flight instead. But it's full on the premium F and J class (4 in coach left) that I don't even think I will have much chance unless someone cancels.

Well, the only chance I may have is....If I understand correctly, CX does not overbook the J and F cabins, so if there are any no-shows, then there may be a chance for an upgrade. Do I have this correct, or do they also overbook in the front cabin?

I was told by an agent -- I think it was either at CDG or LHR -- that they overbooked F by two. I was standing by for an upgrade. I had already a voucher issued by then in hand. It cleared, though. Thanks to no-shows.

i think you are 95% correct. BUT overbook is a matter of % game. e.g. CX overbook by 101% while other airlines by 103%. the realisty is 103%+/-2%. so CX seldom have to kick pax out, but other airlines do.
[in theory overbooking can happen in CX, say if J is fully booked, and a Diamond wanted to force a seat at the last 24/48hr window]

but the overbookig is usually taken care by having empty seats in a higher class, that is why op upg happens. they could overbook J if there are extra F seats, (based on GB's comment it seems this is not the case, but it could also be because they had overbooked J pax early). BUT there could also be stand-by F pax who are forced to downgrade to J.

...and there are some staff travel on J/etc. (i think they are at a high priority that op upg) which can jump in front of you.

overall, your chance for upg is still VERY high. and i also believe there will be no available seat for mileage upgrade in such situation. so there is nothing you can do now.



[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 12-29-2002).]

Pegasus-- what you say makes some sense. I think I'll just wait it out, odds are in my favor, and there really ISN'T anything I can do, so why get stressed about it?

in the rare case that you are not upgraded at check-in.
you can ask the checkin/gate agent the cabin occupancy for Y & J about 40 min prior dep(by then the no-shows are more or less counted -- but the real situation won't be known will check-in is closed 45 min prior dep).

1. if J is full and Y is not, you are out of luck.
2. more likely situation is Y overbooked, J not full =&gt; then you can be the first to be upgraded at the gate
3. there are both seats in both J&Y (quite unlikely), you can ask if you could upgrade with mile or pay to upgrade. the CX system makes mile upgrade at gate not feasible, but it does no harm to ask -- the agent might choose to op upg you because she can't mile-up you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
(i think pay to upgrade is roughly the different in price of one way Y & J full fares.)


[This message has been edited by pegasus8228 (edited 12-30-2002).]

One other situation that COULD happen is that you are transferred to another airline. Being a diamond, the chances might be scarse, but my brother (silver) when flew out of YVR and J was full, he was forced into AC (no upgrade). It must have been pretty full for them to bump an elite member to AC, which brings me the question, "what happened to all the tour pax?".

By the way, speaking from my experience, I think upgrades in YVR is done mostly at the checkin, not at the gate, unlike HK.