Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - CX will introduce Chicago flights and non-stop JFK

I had a little chat with a CX route engineer on my HKG>SFO last week, and he divulged that CX is about to launch a Hong Kong - Chicago daily. The non-stop JFK abandoned last September will finally start in fall 2002.

Fantastic news! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif I hope the JFK-HKG nonstop will be operating on August 30th. I suspect it'll probably be with an A34C.

That's why the A340-600s are being delivered in time to start the JFK route.

GREAT NEWS!! This would create a major impediment for UA!!!!!!!

How high is the chance that the HKG-YVR-JFK-YVR-HKG flight be cancelled as a result?

(Last year when the attempted to launch JFK-HKG non-stop, they did not cancel the HKG-YVR-JFK-YVR-HKG flights)

If they use the A340-600 for JFK-HKG, I hope will have more than 8 F seats.
8 F seats does not seem enough for routes like JFK-HKG. (maybe have 12 seats by adding another row of 1-2-1?)

I guess I'll do my beloved YVR-JFK segment in August in F for my Oneworld Explorer ticket in case they might discontinue it in December. (Also booking JFK-HKG, so if they cancel the JFK-YVR-HKG, they can rebook me on JFK-HKG)




[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 04-25-2002).]

Hoping this new service will be AA codehared.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by glenngpr:
Hoping this new service will be AA codehared.</font>
little chance of an AA codeshare ... it requires regulatory approval -- a new treaty with HKG, and Fedex is playing hardball. They want a ton of cargo revenue (at the expense of CX). Meanwhile Cathay is torn between the huge amount of extra traffic that the AA codeshare will generate for them and the loss of cargo to Fedex ... and the good old US gov't is acting at Fedex's agent in this. Talks are kind of bogged down at the moment, so don't hold your breath for the AA codeshare for this year. I think it will happen, but not for a while. A shame since it would be very good for all parties (CX, AA, and passengers) ... I suppose UA/NW would suffer.

The ORD route would be a huge benefit for AA/CX award travel. Right now CX gateways are two connections on AA away from most cities. ORD would bring it down to one.

I expect this route will be very popular.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
I had a little chat with a CX route engineer on my HKG&gt;SFO last week, and he divulged that..... </font>

Do you mean he's a route "planner" or is he an engineer who travels with the aircraft on this specific route?

Seems nowadays everyone calls themselves an "engineer".....

I honestly don't know. He said he is in charge of working out the "aircraft related" aspects of routes. I figure it's about usage, fuel, maintenance, maybe also landing slots, etc.

my opinion

1. hkg-ord has no relation with hkg-yvr-jfk
2. code-share has no impact on whether u r MPO or AADV member, so why care?

Pegasus:

1. This thread deals with both the HKG-ORD and HKG-JFK nonstops. So it is possible that JFK-YVR is affected by the re-introduction of HKG-JFK nonstop.

2. If you are AADV member, you will be able to earn miles on discount Y on AA codeshares, whereas if it was on CX, you will not get miles in disc. Y unless your address is in Canada.

I think H fares on CX from USA are priced competitively with those on UA and NW.

Anyone have a specific start date for the ORD-HKG flight?

Wasn't AA also looking at doing an ORD-HKG route? IIRC, they tested a 777 out on the route...

Can we try to remember that this is (at best) 2nd-hand information, which, in my experience, turns out to be accurate something less than 100% of the time.

If CX starts ORD-HKG and/or JFK-HKG non-stops, it's extremely unlikely that they'll keep it a secret, fearful that potential customers might get wind of the news and start purchasing tickets.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wideman:
Can we try to remember that this is (at best) 2nd-hand information, which, in my experience, turns out to be accurate something less than 100% of the time.

If CX starts ORD-HKG and/or JFK-HKG non-stops, it's extremely unlikely that they'll keep it a secret, fearful that potential customers might get wind of the news and start purchasing tickets. </font>

Very true, CX has not made any announcements about ORD-HKG service. In the past there is a press release about 6 months prior to the start of a new route, so draw your own conclusions. But UA did fly ORD-HKG using a 747-400 (not sure if it was a premium light configuration). Presumably the 340-600 coming online later this year are going to be used for the JFK-HKG route (I can't see how they can do ORD-HKG also using only 3 planes). Best I can make out CX has 1 passenger 747-400 parked after July 1 (and 1 freighter), maybe being refit is more accurate than parked, so there isn't a lot of plane availability to start a new route. And CX has complained about low yield (something like 20% drop from last year), so they aren't about to add more capacity until the yield improves (or the AA codeshare happens). In this context I doubt we will see ORD-HKG before 2003.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wideman:
Can we try to remember that this is (at best) 2nd-hand information, which, in my experience, turns out to be accurate something less than 100% of the time.
</font>

Exactly. Like the rumour a few months back that HKG-HNL service would be launched ("AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!")

I suspect CX will only fly to markets in N. America where 1) there is a large population of H.K. immigrants and those with ties to HKG, and/or 2) business ties to H.K. are strong. NYC in the only market I know of that fits both. Chicago is primarily a commodity futures trading financial centre so not that much in common with H.K. as NYC has. I could see BOS being a medium/l-t potential market due to it being the centre of the asset management universe.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Wasn't AA also looking at doing an ORD-HKG route? IIRC, they tested a 777 out on the route...
</font>

Ain't gonna happen until a new U.S.-H.K. bilateral air services treaty is agreed to (AA hasn't any route rights hence there's no AA code-sharing to HKG currently). There are a few but major sticking points much like in the U.S.-U.K. bilateral negotiations.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stargold:
Pegasus:

1. This thread deals with both the HKG-ORD and HKG-JFK nonstops. So it is possible that JFK-YVR is affected by the re-introduction of HKG-JFK nonstop.

2. If you are AADV member, you will be able to earn miles on discount Y on AA codeshares, whereas if it was on CX, you will not get miles in disc. Y unless your address is in Canada.</font>

ok http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

but who would be better off if there is a CX7xxx for jfk-ord (AA operated)?
are we saying, LET'S TRY to stop CX code share at all cost? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

IMHO, ORD-HKG operated by either AA or CX, preferably CX, would give the route powerful feeder service that is lacking at YVR/SFO/LAX/YYZ/JFK. The feeder service should make up for the lack of resident HK expats.

AA would be smarter to fly it out of DFW to avoid competing with UA.

I'm not holding my breath for either scenario. Route expansion is not likely until the economy improves.

HOWEVER, I purchase air freight from HKG, and rates are 50% higher than normal right now due to a severe shortage of capacity. UA once gloated that they could fly ORD-NRT with zero passengers and still make a profit due to cargo. With high rates today, you might think AA and CX are warming up to expansion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
... I could see BOS being a medium/l-t potential market due to it being the centre of the asset management universe. ....
</font>

But word is that the BOS runway is too short for a takeoff with enough fuel to go all the way to Asia. So said a seemingly in-the-know techie when there was talk on the AA board of the puzzle of AA adding JFK-NRT (already served by several airlines) rather than BOS-NRT (seemingly a badly underserved market). At the time, I checked runway lengths and found that BOS's runway did seem to be significantly shorter than, say, JFK's.

I thought KE used to serve BOS or maybe it was via somewhere else.

KE used to serve BOS through (I think) JFK (or some other US city). But maybe the fact that it's a domestic segment means they don't have to carry all the fuel from BOS (refuel at JFK) and hence being able to take off with the relatively short runway?

Even flying 767s and 777s across the pond and back, the runways at BOS are really short....especially landing in the rain...so I would imagine that a fully loaded 747 or 777 might have some trouble at BOS.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mktozd:
Even flying 767s and 777s across the pond and back, the runways at BOS are really short....especially landing in the rain...so I would imagine that a fully loaded 747 or 777 might have some trouble at BOS. </font>

Well, if they could ever get that new runway built. %#@#$*%$

20-year old injunction against runway construction still in effect, and the judge refuses to lift it without a formal trial.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Well, if they could ever get that new runway built....</font>

The proposed new runway, 14/32, would be for commuter aircraft (it's a 5000-foot runway, I think).

I think BA flies 744's out of San Diego, which I think of as the mother of short runways, but they carry just enough fuel to make it to Phoenix.

If I could ask, how long of a runway does a fully loaded 747 need, and how long are the runways at Logan? I have difficulty picturing this.

I guess the other side of the picture are places like Phu Bai airport (near Hue in Vietnam) which are tiny little places with perhaps 5-10 domestic flights per day, but a huge 10,000 foot runway (courtesy of US Marine Corps some time ago).

BOS's 15R/33L is 10,081 feet.
The published FAA takeoff distance for the 744 is 9950 so it is real tight.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JohnAx:
I think BA flies 744's out of San Diego, which I think of as the mother of short runways, but they carry just enough fuel to make it to Phoenix. </font>

BA hasn't used 747-400s for San Diego or PHX since August last year! Besides 777-200s are served seperately and daily from LGW to both SAN and PHX.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wideman:
The proposed new runway, 14/32, would be for commuter aircraft (it's a 5000-foot runway, I think).

</font>

I thought they were also applying to extend the existing runways?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
I thought they were also applying to extend the existing runways?</font>

They want to extend 15L/33R from 2557 feet to around 4000 feet and add 14/32. They also want many new taxiways. The link is to the 10 years old plans. I cannot find one more up to date.

http://www.faa.gov/ats/asc/publications/CAPACITY/BOS.pdf

Is this from a news release for last year's planned but aborted HKG-JFK launch?

It doesn't look like flight 822/823 has been loaded into CRS.

http://www.airfares.com.sg/airfares/cx/cx_update.htm

I may be mistaken but about 1997-8 I thought I saw a UA flight from BOS-NRT. Was a 747(-200?). I remember being surprised to see it. Did this flight exist?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MilesToGoBeforeISleep:
...about 1997-8 I thought I saw a UA flight from BOS-NRT....Did this flight exist?</font>

Dunno. But AA did advertise a BOS-NRT flight in that time period, using an MD-11 (maybe). Only thing was, the flight bided its time in SJC while going between Boston and Tokyo. (At least, though, it was same-plane service, instead of the ludicrous same-flight-number, different-plane business.)

Just got off a flight on CX and spoke to one of the senior cabin crew. He said that they won't be getting the new Airbus A340-600s till the end of the year as they haven't started retraining on them yet. No word yet on the nonstops HKG-JFK and he thinks it won't be till at least next year. If it is just a regular A340, instead of the -600s, the aircraft will have a reconfigured cabin. Same amount of F seats but more J seats and less Y seats.

So ddaniellam need not worry about CX cancelling his flight yet.

Latest word is that CX is getting the -600s in October. There might be less re-training than you'd imagine though, the main difference safety-wise is a new type of door over the wing, which is a passenger-operated door, similar to the 737 overwing exit. Cabin service-wise, all galleys and cabins are more or less the same, so all they need is basically a briefing on the new doors and they're legal (and ready) to fly the aircraft.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Flying Pig:
Latest word is that CX is getting the -600s in October. There might be less re-training than you'd imagine though, the main difference safety-wise is a new type of door over the wing, which is a passenger-operated door, similar to the 737 overwing exit. Cabin service-wise, all galleys and cabins are more or less the same, so all they need is basically a briefing on the new doors and they're legal (and ready) to fly the aircraft.</font>

A source of mine has told me that one of the new A340-600s will be operating the CX880/CX881 HKG-LAX-HKG flights as early as December. Sadly, no news on inaugurating a JFK-HKG-JFK non-stop with the new equipment or for that matter using a A340-600 for CX889/CX888.

There are five 74Ys with New Business Class (B-HUF, B-HUI, B-HOV, B-HOY/Asia World City livery and B-HOP...IIRC). As far as I can tell, these 74Ys are currently flying to:
LHR CX252/CX255;
FRA CX288/CX289;
CDG CX260/CX261 (sometimes a 74B);
SIN CX716/CX713 (sometimes a 74B); and
TPE CX469/CX400 (sometimes a 343,777,or 74B).

Apparently, CX872/CX873 HKG-SFO-HKG pax have recently been treated with 74Y service, although not on a regular schedule.

When will JFK get a dedicated 74Y? I've experienced New Business Class on a 34C, but am anxiously waiting to enjoy it on a 74Y longhaul from JFK.

Mr. Hughes-Hallet, if you're out there lurking, please do something to let JFK pax get a 74Y or a new A340-600 soon. Thanks!

Well if there are more full fare paying pax than the upgrade/redemption ticket paxs on Business Class than they will deploy those aircraft earlier.....

Anyone know what the latest is on the JFK-HKG non-stop? Do we have any confirmed re-introduction date yet?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by satish_ny:
Anyone know what the latest is on the JFK-HKG non-stop? Do we have any confirmed re-introduction date yet?</font>No word except the A346s are delayed in manufacturing, it looks like delivery date to CX may slip over 6 months now for 2 of the planes. Zero chance for service starting this year and very unlikely to be before March 2003.

I don't know if you guys ever read any airplane magazine, from this issue of Flight International, "A340-600 has been delayed so that CX would get those also delay, probably until October, November and March, and it would start the nonstop service between HKG-JFK and possibly HKG-ORD" I am not sure what they said is it CX would get A340-600 one in October, one in Nov and one in March. The news from the Flight International I believe is quite reliable, they publish weekly. If cx really starting ORD-HKG, that may have a competition with UA if they give an attractive price. Since CX is always expensive, and UA can offer a $800 US dollars tax included for economy on ORD-HKG roundtrip. Same as for AA, the only winner would be the one with the lowest price. Just like for ORD-NRT. UA has two a day, AA has one and JL has one, NH may come back hopefully soon.

CX will start the 346 on 880/881 to LAX on 1 Dec. It is already in the schedule.

Also this article about the new HKG-ORD service in the Hong Kong Standard.
&lt;http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=34130&intcatid=1&gt;