Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Upgrading from C to F

Has anyone been able to use AAdvantage miles to upgrade on tickets purchased from CX or CX Leverage websites?

A statement on the website seems to indicate that this is not possible.

Upgrading on Cathay Pacific flights is only possible through CX's own FFP program.

I would strongly recommend that you join Marco Polo Club as benefits are generally better than those of other oneworld alliance FFP's as it allows members to upgrade from Y to J and J to F.

Please note that using miles to upgrade to J class from Economy have little fine prints. You have to purchase eligible fare basis inorder to qualify for upgrade redemption. The eligible subclasses for Cathay Pacific upgrade redemption and mileage accruals are:
Y/B/H/K/L/M/S

Having said that, this recommendation is based on my experience in flying with CX and my travel itineraries are based around CX flights.

If you need further clarification, please feel free to contact us via flyertalk CX Board.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by oneworld Fan:
Upgrading on Cathay Pacific flights is only possible through CX's own FFP program.
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Wrong. You can upgrade Y (as in basis (Y, Y2, Y8), no other discount fares,) to J for for 25K AA miles (Award 25B), or J to F r/t for 40K AA miles (award 40X) r/t. See AAdvantage &gt; Member Guide &gt; Using Miles &gt; Miles on Airlines &gt; Cathay Pacific &gt; Upgrade Awards between North America Zone and Hong Kong, Asia, Japan, Africa, Pacific or Middle East. No limitations on BC fares stated on the AA web site.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I would strongly recommend that you join Marco Polo Club as benefits are generally better than those of other oneworld alliance FFP's as it allows members to upgrade from Y to J and J to F.
</font>

Most other oneworld programmes allow upgrades on their own airlines (but not for U.K. BA members though N. American ones can).

AAdvantage is one of the few I know to have upgrade awards not only on AA but on CX too.

AA is also better because you effectively earn 300% miles as a mid or top level elite.

[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 04-03-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by oneworld Fan:
Upgrading on Cathay Pacific flights is only possible through CX's own FFP program.
</font>

Not exactly: AA has upgrade awards on CX when you use full fare tickets.

CXLeverage tickets are theoretically not eligible for upgrades, but I can say for certain that what is theoretically possible with CXLeverage and what actually happens is still converging.

Thanks for the responses.

First, AAdvantage rules clearly state that full Y and C and be upgraded using AAdvantage miles. My question still reamins, can tickets booked on CX websites be upgraded using AAdvantage miles? Has anyone actually done this?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by trav2000:
Thanks for the responses.

First, AAdvantage rules clearly state that full Y and C and be upgraded using AAdvantage miles. My question still reamins, can tickets booked on CX websites be upgraded using AAdvantage miles? Has anyone actually done this?</font>

You can only upgrade if you've booked full fare tickets. ie fare basis is Y or YOX or business class. You cannot upgrade on the H class fares.

So effectively, as long as it's Business Class, you can. But the procedure isn't immediate.

You must get an upgrade award from AA.
Then issue your paper ticket from CX.
Then bring both ticket and upgrade award to AA to get your ticket reissued. Fare basis on CX ticket must be at least a fully refundable business class ticket.

[This message has been edited by Guy Betsy (edited 04-03-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by oneworld Fan:
Upgrading on Cathay Pacific flights is only possible through CX's own FFP program.

I would strongly recommend that you join Marco Polo Club as benefits are generally better than those of other oneworld alliance FFP's as it allows members to upgrade from Y to J and J to F.

Please note that using miles to upgrade to J class from Economy have little fine prints. You have to purchase eligible fare basis inorder to qualify for upgrade redemption. The eligible subclasses for Cathay Pacific upgrade redemption and mileage accruals are:
Y/B/H/K/L/M/S

Having said that, this recommendation is based on my experience in flying with CX and my travel itineraries are based around CX flights.

If you need further clarification, please feel free to contact us via flyertalk CX Board.

</font>

Hi Oneworld Fan. WELCOME to Flyertalk....
Can you be less 'authoritarian' and add a little more life to your posts? We're all having fun and learning here !

FYI - and ASIAMILES is NOT the only programme where you can upgrade on ANY economy class fare to Business Class. QUALIFLYER also allows this. Oneway and Return. AND you can upgrade up to 24 hours prior departure as long as upgrade seats are available WITHOUT a service charge and unlike ASIAMILES who always say that it is impossible to do so likewise! QUALIFLYER's awards are almost similar to ASIAMILES'!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just a little different thoughts. I guess anyone here with MPC status knows that whenever they fly on full CX flight, they will get OP. upgrade. From the previous posts, I suppose this isn't as frequent for C-&gt;F, but definitely a everyday thing for Y-&gt;C.

So give it a second thought before you spend that miles on upgrade award, because its better to just save up for full J award ticket. It depends on how you value your points, but the amount you spend for upgrade from C-&gt;F is close to the amount of points required for J award ticket, isn't it? From my personal experience, I regret using points to upgrade HKG-YVR sector in the past, because once I qualified for lowly Silver, this takes place "automatically" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I seriously wonder what all you diamond members are getting!!!

I've tried to upgrade on CX out of BKK using AA miles, but AA told me that is only possible if the ticket is bought and issued at the AA office in BKK.

Another thing I find a bit strange (or am I the only to think so?) is MPC the other day told me that they will charge me LHR business class airport taxes (much higher than economy) if I want to upgrade a flight out of LHR. Do other airlines do this? UA never asked me for this.

MPC/AsiaMiles wants to charge service fees for upgrade requests if it is within seven days or three days or same day, etc...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fakecd:
Just a little different thoughts. I guess anyone here with MPC status knows that whenever they fly on full CX flight, they will get OP. upgrade. From the previous posts, I suppose this isn't as frequent for C-&gt;F, but definitely a everyday thing for Y-&gt;C.
</font>

yes, that's has been my experience too. almost all full flights have seen me bump from Y to C.

save up those miles instead.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chiangi:
Another thing I find a bit strange (or am I the only to think so?) is MPC the other day told me that they will charge me LHR business class airport taxes (much higher than economy) if I want to upgrade a flight out of LHR. Do other airlines do this? UA never asked me for this.

MPC/AsiaMiles wants to charge service fees for upgrade requests if it is within seven days or three days or same day, etc...</font>

The UK in its desire to fleece people more than ever, now charges an extra £20 in taxes for passengers travelling in Business Class. I have been charged this when getting an upgrade from AA out of LHR. I am surprised that UA didn't charge you.

Dave

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by trav2000:
Thanks for the responses.

First, AAdvantage rules clearly state that full Y and C and be upgraded using AAdvantage miles. My question still reamins, can tickets booked on CX websites be upgraded using AAdvantage miles? Has anyone actually done this?</font>

Yes, you can upgrade from C to F even if you bought your ticket trough the CX website. Call the EXP desk and they will help you. (40000 miles)

APIACOL

Can you elaborate on how this is done?

I am not EXPLAT and I fear if I call PLat Desk, they might not know how this is done.

I have always gotton my tickets issued on AA stock from the beginning, but yes , maybe there are cheaper prices to be gotton if booking via CX web site or CX leverage.

If you book on CX and get a paper ticket on CX stock, then does AA charge a fee for reissue and does the fare increase.
How can you get info on whether upgrade space in FC is available before doing all this work? Do you contact AA or CX telling then you want to upgrade using AA miles?

Hi Eireman. I know your concerns... but I've done it before and it's quite simple. I have mentioned in my previous posts that you first :
1) Buy the ticket.
2) Through CX or travel agent.
3) Fare must be J or thereabouts which allows changes without penalty. double check with AA. Fare must be J only. Apparently the special D class fares are not allowed!
4) With ticket AND upgrade award , reissue at AA counters.
5) Upgrades are booked in "A" class on CX.

But your mileage will be J!

There is no fee involved. AA would have preferred if you booked through AA. So that they may 'take over the booking' when you reissue. Of course you want to book through CX.

The funny thing is that AA can see the booking booked through CX's website because CX uses SABRE software through (for some strange reason) ITN for CX.com tickets.

So once you book CX on cx.com, call CX and ask to speak to the internet booking people, ask them to verify the fare. When you have issued the ticket , give the SABRE record locator which is on the ticket itself as the CX record locator is on the itinerary and not the ticket...you can immediately see that it's not the usual CX ticket stock and ticketing format CX normally uses.

With that, you give the SABRE record locator to AAdvantage who will then take over the booking and change the booking class to "A".
Or they will simply book a new reservation and cancel the old one. All changes thereafter must go through AA and not CX.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fakecd:
Just a little different thoughts. I guess anyone here with MPC status knows that whenever they fly on full CX flight, they will get OP. upgrade. From the previous posts, I suppose this isn't as frequent for C-&gt;F, but definitely a everyday thing for Y-&gt;C.
</font>

Maybe I am misunderstanding something here, as I usually buy C or J I might just not have enough experience, but I had two flights last year in cattle and was not upgraded.

What do you mean by full? If I have a ticket I have a seat, no? Does full simply mean availability in C, so if there's free seats in C I should always get upgraded? (I am CX Gold)



[This message has been edited by mhtaipei (edited 04-08-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by eireman:
APIACOL

Can you elaborate on how this is done?

I am not EXPLAT and I fear if I call PLat Desk, they might not know how this is done.

I have always gotton my tickets issued on AA stock from the beginning, but yes , maybe there are cheaper prices to be gotton if booking via CX web site or CX leverage.

If you book on CX and get a paper ticket on CX stock, then does AA charge a fee for reissue and does the fare increase.
How can you get info on whether upgrade space in FC is available before doing all this work? Do you contact AA or CX telling then you want to upgrade using AA miles?</font>

This is what I always do: I get the tickets through the Cathay website (routing thru Canada is cheaper). After I get the tickets, I call the advantage desk (EXP in my case and they are very helpful). They do the upgrade directly and send me a certificate that I show at checking. They do not have to re-issue the tickets. I have an upcoming trip this Thursday, and the EXP desk asked me to claim the certificate at the airport, which is a first for me. I will be flying SBA-YYZ-HKG. I will let you know if I have any problems.

David

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
What do you mean by full? If I have a ticket I have a seat, no? Does full simply mean availability in C, so if there's free seats in C I should always get upgraded? (I am CX Gold)</font>

I think it doesn't have to be J that is full. I was upgraded in January to F from J most probably on account of Y being oversold. Being CX Gold, you should stand good chances of being upgraded.

I have seven CX flights, including two long-hauls, in the next few weeks and two of them have already Y being oversold with the subclasses below M closed.

I am raising expectations a bit but not too high. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif They sometimes open up toward departure.

[This message has been edited by Chiangi (edited 04-08-2002).]

Just curious,

Can you do the buy one business class ticket/get one free companion ticket via Amex, and then upgrade both tickets to F using AA miles?

I've never heard that any kind of "free" tickets can be upgraded or earn miles.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mhtaipei:
What do you mean by full? If I have a ticket I have a seat, no? Does full simply mean availability in C, so if there's free seats in C I should always get upgraded? (I am CX Gold)

[This message has been edited by mhtaipei (edited 04-08-2002).]</font>


Well, "Full" means the flight is full... to be precise, I guess it refers to the flights when the total number of passengers physically sitting on the seats are equal to the number of seats available. And there occurs a problem when the total number of passengers wanting to get onto a particular flight exceeds that of available seats...(I'm really not trying to be sacrastic here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

Anyways, as Chiangi briefly mentioned, it is not neccessary that biz class inventory is fully sold out for the J-class pax to be upgraded to F. If there are sufficient "overbooking" in the Y-class (which is frequent), and if there are need for Y-pax to be seated in the J cabin, then the J-pax will be shifted to F cabin so that there will be more seats available in J class, where the upgraded passengers can be seated.

But sometimes, without having to even upgrade any of the J-class passengers, there will be enough empty seats on J class for the upgraded Y-pax to be seated. Then it will be unlikely that any J-pax are moved to F cabin.

You also have to remember that available F-seats are really limited. Also, even being a Gold member, you have to remember that people sitting around in J-class are also likely to have MPC gold/diamond status, so you have to "compete" against those too.

To return to the original question, has anyone successfully upgraded a CXLeverage J fare to P using AA miles? The EXP desk along with AAdvantage Customer service took a good bit of time researching the matter and told me it was not possible. They said that to use the upgrade cert the ticket had to be reissued by AA and that they could not reissue a CXLeverage ticket at the CX price since these discounted fares, although fully refundable J Class, are not avaiable in AA's data base. AA apparently treats CXLeverage fares as "unpublished".

Since there are so many knowledgeable people on this board, does anyone know if there is a way AA could "take over" the reservation without reissuing the ticket?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jrussell:
To return to the original question, has anyone successfully upgraded a CXLeverage J fare to P using AA miles? The EXP desk along with AAdvantage Customer service took a good bit of time researching the matter and told me it was not possible. </font>
No-one has replied, so that's a good indication that there is no way. In general negotiated fares are unpublished, and unpublished fares cannot be re-issued by another airline. No way around that. Some airlines use the unpublished fare technique to make a refundable ticket locked in to their airline (you can't endorse it over to fly on another airline, even though it is basically a full-Y fare). At least the CXleverage fares give a substantial discount to compensate for the restrictions.
Personally I refuse to purchase unpublished fares, no matter how lucrative, because I think it is a despicable business practice. At least they don't compete for seats with the A fares that I do purchase.

number_6 you are exactly right. The fare rules for CXLeverage say the tickets are non endorseable and CX has now added to the Leverage website the specific caveat that CXLevarge fares cannot be upgraded using AA or other frequent flyer program awards. My question is certainly definitely answered.