Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - CX to CX sterile transit at Vancouver?

Can you check in for a CX flight to HKG after arriving on a CX flight from HKG at YVR, staying airside, without clearing passport control?

You might want to check this page (http://www.yvr.ca/Guides/ConnectingPassengers/DefaultConnecting.htm) (U.S.=>Int'l is most relevant). It would appear that if you can get your BP back to HKG airside and have no checked baggage, you wouldn't have to clear immigration but otherwise you do.

Just wondering... what are you planning to do?

a mileage run?

Thanks, everyone. Well, what else is there? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just wondered if it is possible. Tickets are a lot cheaper than to SFO/LAX or Europe.

While I like YVR and don't mind spending a few days there, I really can't stand Canadian immigration.

You may want to check with CX about current situation. There was airside transit prior to September 11. However, it was no longer allowed when I passed through it in October. All passengers had to go through Canadian immigration and security, irrespective of final destination or boarding passes. The terminal flow was changed and there was no way to get to the boarding gate without going through immigration, unless you stay onboard.

I didn't know if it was temporary or not.

Since 9/11, everyone arriving at YVR will have to clear Canada customs regardless of whether they are connecting to a US/international flight. It's a hassle and you might have problem explaining to customs about Mileage runs. (I've tried but they just don't understand! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif)

While I like YVR and don't mind spending a few days there, I really can't stand Canadian immigration.


Yes, this may be the one reason that I stop coming here. It is such a massive pain that I now budget 1-2 hours to get through this nightmare (all bags searched 2 out last 3 arrivals). Don't worry, it's not just mileage runs they don't understand......

The lineups at Vancouver immigration IS simply ridiculous. Not to mention, that they DO ask you many questions. Once I was wearing a gold necklace, and they asked me when I bought it. I'm like, "I had it from before". And they asked me whether I have registered it with the Canada government!!! What a joke!

But as a student, I've never had my bags searched in ALL of my previous flights into Vancouver. Once I clear the immigration lineups, then the ordeal is over for me.

Here's one tip that might work for you. When they asks you how much goods you are bringing to Canada, claim higher than your tax-exempt value. Then, you will be forced to pay the tax. BUT, once you pay the tax, they seldom re-check your baggage. The line ups for tax-payment isn't too bad, so this is one way to speed up your immigration process.

I've taken to flying into the U.S. and then taking ground transportation into Canada (from SEA) to avoid the kids at YVR as it's much less hassle this way. U.S. immigration is easy at least at the airports I came in through (PHL, PIT and JFK - even though I entered the U.S. through JFK 3 times in 5 days in June). Canadian officials at the land crossings are generally easy (never been inspected in 2 years). I find the U.S. immigration officials at the land crossings (and sometimes at YVR pre-clearance) much tougher than at the U.S. airports I enter through.

Well, good to hear I'm not the only one with problems at YVR. Good tip on declaring stuff beforehand. I'm buying X-Mas gifts in Hanoi, and I'm soooo afraid of another massive hassle with customs-- I pray they just let me pay the tax.....

I just wonder who is responsible for this attitude and (poor?) training? I mean, I tell them I've been consulting for the World Bank, and the most common answer I get is, "What is the World Bank?" (with a straight face) Am I insane, or is this an organization that people in immigration might have heard of before?

Also, with the lines-- sometimes backed up to the escalators, and yet half the immigration booths are not staffed! And, you can see staff members going on break in the middle of this?!

Has it always been like this? Does anybody care? Vancouver is a nice city, but getting into Vancouver through these centurions makes it a bit less appealing.

Welcome to Vancouver.

The pay-some-excess trick does not always work. The only thing it might do is make your wait for secondary inspection, if you're lucky enough to be chosen, a bit faster as you might go through a 2nd queue. One way to tell, apparently, is if the number written on the declaration form is the same as the date of your arrival.

The root of the problem, in my opinion, are the newly-empowered kids they have manning the inspection positions. All you need to do (not that you have any control over it) is for them to take a dislike to you to make your life miserable.

Maybe we should write to the Minister of National Revenue and tell him we'll take our business away from Canadian airlines (read AC) and Canadian airports if this continues.

Commuter, may I ask what ethnicity you are?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TerryK:
You may want to check with CX about current situation. There was airside transit prior to September 11. However, it was no longer allowed when I passed through it in October. All passengers had to go through Canadian immigration and security, irrespective of final destination or boarding passes. The terminal flow was changed and there was no way to get to the boarding gate without going through immigration, unless you stay onboard.</font>

TerryK, does this mean that those travelling on CX 888/889 between JFK and HKG have to either clear immigration and customs if they deplane, or have to just stay on the plane?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
One way to tell, apparently, is if the number written on the declaration form is the same as the date of your arrival.
</font>
Not anymore... the last couple times that I was sent to secondary, it doesn't resemble anything like a date (but I think I've got a general idea on how the code will look like if you are to be checked) and the code on my travel companion's card (who didn't get sent to secondary) doesn't resemble a date as well.

You guys shouldn't feel too bad, as a Canadian citizen who was born here, I've been sent to secondary the last couple times at YVR just because they think my trip is too short (6 days in HKG), just because they think I am bring "stuff" to Mexico on my 1 day trip, just because they think making more connections to get more points doesn't make sense, just because I made a change on my ticket.

I don't want to raise any debate but for some reason, they have a mindset that "HKG flights = $$$".

Terenz, Passengers from JFK-YVR-HKG will have to deplane at YVR and clear customs there before getting back on the plane. There was a video on AC coming back from HKG couple weeks ago detailing this new procedure.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by terenz:
those travelling on CX 888/889 between JFK and HKG have to either clear immigration and customs if they deplane, or have to just stay on the plane?</font>

CX no longer allows through passengers to deplance at YVR on CX 888/889 as of November. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

So they don't clean the cabin for the YVR-HKG leg or do they do it with the passengers on board?

I HATE CANADA CUSTOMS/IMMIGRATION AT YVR!!!

Too bad I always have to fly CX HKG-YVR. When I came back on my Around the World trip in First Class, the immigration people didn't seem to like the fact that I flew First Class when they asked to see my airline tickets.

They asked all sorts of embarassing questions like "who paid for your trip"? (Is it a problem for them just because I happen to be able to afford the ticket?). On a side note, it seems like that some (or maybe a lot) of the customs/immigrations people at YVR are actually "Co-Op Students" (paid internship students) from the university that I am attending who are working on either 4 month or 8 month work terms.

Even when flying Economy Class, they are still like that. Since everyone in my family are either born in Canada or have Canadian Citizenship, there is no problem for us getting into the country. I don't like the fact that the Canada Immigration (not customs) staff seem to be more interested in what you are bringing into the country and how much you spent on stuff you purchased during vacation abroad and how much tax they can collect(This is the job for the "customs" people and not the "immigration" people) rather then whether you are eligible to enter the country. They seem to make travelling outside Canada (for Canadian residents) a crime and make it a disincentive for Canadians to travel abroad.

Having flown through many airports around the world, even New York Kennedy Airport which is supposed to be more tight when it comes to customs/immigration let me through easily.

Even at London Heathrow where I used the FastTrack immigration line (Only First/Business Class pax get to use this line), the immigration officers turned a blind eye on me after they asked me what I did for a living (I said "student"), and why I was going to the U.K. (I said "for a few days of shopping and sightseeing"). All they did was stamp my passport and let me through within 5 seconds!! (Perhaps the Customs/Immigration people at the JFK and London Heathrow Airports are used to the fact of seeing "snobby" and rich students as opposed to Canada?

Had the above happened in Canada, they would have asked a lot of questions like "who paid for your trip?".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I don't want to raise any debate but for some reason, they have a mindset that "HKG flights = $$$".
</font>

I've never brought in more than my allowance (other than being over volumetrically for wine which was duly declared) even allowing a generous exchange factor when I entered through YVR. YYZ customs at T3 always seemed to be more courteous. As daniellam says, the fact the inspectors at YVR are often students may have something to do with it.

OTH, I've declared excess at the land crossings and they just let me through.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Passengers from JFK-YVR-HKG will have to deplane at YVR and clear customs there before getting back on the plane. There was a video on AC coming back from HKG couple weeks ago detailing this new procedure.</font>

Well, I would expect that AC pax would have to deplane as AC does not use the same a/c between HKG and JFK or v-v. The step of having to go through Canadian and U.S. immigration is going to be a big incentive to go straight to the U.S. or fly CX. Anyway, TerryK answered my question and it seems CX 888/889 pax do not have to go through immigration and customs as YVR but must stay on the plane. Interesting since most of the CX lounge users on my flight to HKG in June were transit pax off the flight from JFK.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:
So they don't clean the cabin for the YVR-HKG leg or do they do it with the passengers on board?</font>

They just tidy up around pax (pick up trash & empty junk from the seat pockets, re-arrange seat belts, adjust head rest doilies on empty seats) - no major cleaning until the a/c overnight.

I observed this back in the days when I used to fly SIN-LHR in the 707 days when the flights would stop at KUL or BKK, then go to somewhere in subcontinent India (usually BOM, DEL, Calcutta or Colombo), BAH, somewhere in southern Europe (ATH or FCO), northern Europe (FRA, AMS, ORY) before getting to London. You couldn't leave the a/c in transit except at a few places (BAH and AMS) so you always got to meet the cleaners. 4 stop and 3 stop flights were wonderful improvements.

daniellam:

I didn't know there are Co-Op students at the immigration counters from SFU. I wonder, what will happen if you happen to encounter your friends at the immigration counter. Kind of amusing, isn't it?

Another way to avoid the custom check is to keep an EXTREME low profile. For example, don't wear lavish watches or beautiful outfit. Just as important, stay clam when you are waiting for the baggage. Those patrols with doggies will pick on any person who looks to be too excited, and give them a very miserable time. Or maybe travel with a senior, bring your grandma along http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Terenz: I'm caucasian. Does it make a difference one way or the other what ethnicity one is at YVR? Shouldn't.

Danillam: The reason they are asking you about who paid for your tickets is that they've been trained to look for "mules" who are smuggling dope or (something?). Many of these people have tickets bought in cash by others. The problem is not the question, but the fact that they seem so poorly trained that they can't interpret the answers! There are many good reasons that people have expensive tickets and/or pay in cash, but all they know is, "suspicious, must go for inspection."

Since I always pay in cash for my tickets in BKK (employers not willing to foot the 4% credit card fee, but willing to pay for J class, go figure), they always note this, and then ask if I will be reimbursed. I then show them the relevant contract, with reimbursemnt. Normally, they don't bother to read it!? So why do they ask for it?!

After reading all this, I decided to call Immigration to get some feedback. I was told (4 different times!) to call another number, and basically told, "tough sh-t, that's the way the system is." I did manage to get the complaints office address out of them: I'd encourage people to write to them:

CIC Admissions
Complaints office
5th Floor
1148 Hornby Street
Vancouver, V6Z 2C3

Finally, I can't believe that these people are uni students! I thought the quid pro quo for 50% tax rates would be good government services with qualified staff?!

Not that it'll do any good, but I wrote a somewhat blistering letter, basically saying that I travel all the time, and don't want to go through this. It's probably (in terms of time) just as fast to fly to Seattle and drive here, given a 2-3 hour wait at airport! I like Vancouver, and am a dual national with USA, and was thinking about buying here, but I'm not going to bother if this is the way it's going to be-- I'll continue to travel, and if I have to go through this every month, well forget it.

Commuter,

I share your frustration but I'm afraid nothing will change even if you are to complain. We are talking about this fat entity that could care less about any issues raised by an individual. Unless of course, you direct the letter specifically to the MP.

But if I were you, I would simply accept the reality, and spend my time on some other worthy causes. Maybe even think of moving out of Vancouver, if this cause you enough headache. (Since you say you have "dual" citizenship?)

IMO, I don't think it's worth pursuing. True, it's such a hassle to go thru the same thing everytime knowing that they'll find nothing but the best option is just to answer their questions and get outta there. The last thing you want them to do is put some kind of notation on your file so you are subjected to further hassle everytime.

fakecd, as for your suggestion of moving out of YVR just because of this, i find it pretty amusing you would even suggest that. Don't let them dictate your travel pattern, as always, if we are clean, we've got nothing to worry about.

Well, I'm not sure what to do. I have a special interest since I give advice on government reform in other countries. I might add that Canadian CIDA is always happy to tell other countries how to reform their public sectors (no joke, I've seen lots of reports), so it would seem logical that the Canadian government would have its own house in order before giving "advice" to other countries (and I promise you, it gives a lot of advice). Seems hypocritical to me.

Ultimately, if nobody complains, nothing changes. Keep in mind that these are civil servants (servants for Canadian citizens). If they abuse their power, or are so poorly trained that they can't do their jobs properly, then there are means in this country to bring pressure to bear on the system. I seriously doubt that individual complaints will change anything, but if enough people complain, then perhaps change is possible. In other words, if nobody complains, but many people are unhappy, then by what means will any substantive change take place?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Finally, I can't believe that these people are uni students! I thought the quid pro quo for 50% tax rates would be good government services with qualified staff?!
[/B]</font>

In case anyone is curious, here is the job advertisement for Co-Op students to work at the Canada Customs/Immigratoin at YVR.
(copy and pasted from my school's job search website -- It is very long!!)

Company Name: Canada Immigration Centre
&lt;some info omitted&gt;
Description of job: 1. Determines a person's eligibility to come into Canada in accordance with the Immigration Act and Regulations by: a) interviewing clients referred from primary inspection (Customs & Excise) to elicit information and clarify background and purpose of entry to Canada; b) postpone, if deemed necessary, the questioning at a more favourable time or take the measures to turn back a person; c) determining if the individual meets the requirements to enter Canada (visitor, student, permanent resident); d) ensuring that the person has the necessary travel documents, ie. passport, visa, etc., as required and verifying the authenticity of documentation received (may use mechanical aids to verify authenticity); e) contacting a variety of sources such as RCMP, US Immigration, friends, relatives or sponsors to verify and complete information; f) observing, recording and analyzing the behaviour of the applicant in relation to the veracity of his/her statements and proceeding accordingly; g) verifying that the subject has not been convicted of a criminal offense that would render him/her inadmissible (eg. check with USINS or Canadian authorities for any criminal record); h) investigating and equating convictions under foreign statutes to Canadian legislation such as Canadian Criminal Code, Narcotic Control Act, Food and Drugs Act, Young Offenders Act; i) confirming that the person is not medically inadmissible, not admissible because of terrorism, security risk, organized criminal activity or war crimes; j) determining when a rejection order should be issued or deferring the examination of persons who cannot be examined properly. 2. Grants admission to Canada of persons deemed to be admissible and issuing appropriate documentation by: a) completing visitor and immigration documentation as required; b) assessing and collecting service fees in accordance with the cost recovery regulations; c) explaining the requirements of the Immigration Act and Regulations concerning employment, permanent residence, extensions, change of status; d) assessing if terms and conditions should be imposed; e) recommending to and SIEO the posting of a cash or performance bond to ensure compliance with terms and conditions. 3. Refuses admission to Canada to individuals deemed inadmissible by: a) deciding if the individual should be allowed to withdraw the application for entry or prepare a report of violation pursuant to Section 20 of the Act; b) writing a report to an SIEO that a person is inadmissible in accordance with Section 20 of the Immigration Act and recommends the disposition of the case; c) advising the person concerned of their rights and obligations (eg. right to communicate with a counsel/lawyer); d) deciding if there are any reasons to detain or make an order to detain the person found to be inadmissible; e) arranging for photographing and fingerprinting of person whose identity needs to be verified..... (it is very long)

Skills required: • successful completion of at least two years of post-secondary education in Arts, with course work in Criminology preferred. • experience, with good results, in activities involving significant public contact. • knowledge of Immigration Program. • ability to communicate orally. • ability to communicate in writing. • good judgement* • dependable* • tact* • effective Interpersonal skills* • possession of a valid B.C. driver's license • proficiency in the use of the English language is essential. • enhanced reliability check


[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 12-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 12-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by daniellam (edited 12-07-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Commuter:
Terenz: I'm caucasian. Does it make a difference one way or the other what ethnicity one is at YVR? Shouldn't.
</font>

Commuter, it shouldn't in an ideal world but there appears to be some anecdotal evidence that your likelihood of being selected for secondary inspection may depend on your ethnicity. If you search back in the AC forum (or ask the regal personage participating here and the traveller formerly known as Ken Hamer who witnessed/observed on of the incidencts.)

Well, this thread is exhausting me now. I'm off tonight, and back in 10 days. I'll post something on the latest experience. In addition to my normal "strikes", a) it'll be near X-Mas, so everybody will be stressed out and lines will be really long; and b) I'll have stuff to declare.

Well, hard to predict-- could be out in 30 minutes or 4 hours-- that's the excitement of arriving at YVR!

Well, I'm at YVR now, and it is confirmed-- transit passengers from JFK cannot get off the plane when it stops here. So I guess the poor blighters have to sit in there for 20+ hours if they go all the way to HK...

I've been away for so long that I'm no longer considered a resident of Canada now even though I am still a citizen.

My last visit through YVR elicited only a "how long are you staying and for what reason" question. I am treated as a visitor.

My experiences with immigration and customs at YVR is simply that they are doing their job in weeding out the people that take trips to smuggle goods, or do 'courier' runs. Canada has been through a lot of flak since 9-11 when US blamed Canada for having too lax a system in allowing 'undesirables' transit through Canada enroute to the USA.

With a large ethnic population, Canada also must enforce it's dutiable allowance rule. I know many people for a fact purchase goods and not declare them at customs. Customs officers have been trained with eagled eyes for flights especially coming in from asia for anything that may be allowed to filter through. Even grandmothers or women with babies are checked for possible smuggled goods...ie GOLD JEWELRY!

One thing that is not welcomed at any customs or immigration site is cockiness. The more you have of it, the more you will be interoggated. Canada or US may have the worst officers about, but they are tough for a reason. Yet they can be gentle. I witnessed a woman who was feeling ill when she got to the front of the line, and immediately, the officers helped her sit down, brought water, processed her documents while another stayed by her side, and another seeked medical assistance. So they're not all bad.

When you arrive into YVR, the staff at primary inspection wearing the blue shirts are actually CUSTOMS officers. The IMMIGRATION officers wear white shirts and are inside the room with the glass windows to the far right of the baggage carousels.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Guy Betsy:
With a large ethnic population, Canada also must enforce it's dutiable allowance rule.
</font>

So that's racial profiling. Assume that all visible minorities must be carrying jewellery.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
One thing that is not welcomed at any customs or immigration site is cockiness.
</font>

I approach them with a humble demeanor all the time - just doesn't work at YVR. The only ones that give me trouble are YVR inspectors. YYZ ones are much more relaxed - they (YYZ T3) even told me to be gone when I tried to pay duty on excess alcohol a few times.

My experience is that the older full-time professionals at the border seem to be easier, and fairer/open minded. That is why I nearly always come in frm land crossing from the U.S.

Yes, I'd have to agree with Terenz. I come to Canada as a non-resident (but citizen), and I've never experienced the kind of checking and questions that I get at YVR. USA is much much easier, in my experience. It's not that I think officers should not be careful,it's that when one answers all of their questions, produces documentation, and still get sent to secondary consistently, it implies to me that they don't have the skills to interpret responses very well. If I'm only searched at YVR, and they are wrong 100% of time, then I suspect it has more to do with YVR than me, as I've arrived at many other ports with same "profile" but after a couple of questions, been sent on. I'm always polite, it does no good to get upset with these people (their job is hard enough), but I still feel something is wrong there. Just don't know what it is.

I was a bit away and now am sitting at CX's buz. lounge at BKK and found out this thread got a little longer than I had expected.

I guess we had this YVR discussion before somewhere ....

I've been through YVR, YYZ, YYC and YUL and I believe they are just doing their job but I find YVR particuarly bad. I've once been sent to the tertiary section. And I am not talking about post-9.11. I really dare not to go through YVR for anything non-essential. They also appear think it strang that I come all the way from Japan and spend four days in Canada.

After 9.11, I only went through YYZ, which I found was decent. Only secondary -- all male, lone travelers seem to have been sent there. And I was surprised that a few AC cabin crew on the same flight were searched their bags at the customs! (I was saved as I already went through the secondary.)

I probably mentioned this somehwere but DL a few years ago pulled out of NRT-PDX after too many complaints about nasty PDX immigration/customs. (Quite a few were forced to return to Japan as immigration officials did not see them fit to be there. Many were apparently just plain holiday makers.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Chiangi:
I probably mentioned this somehwere but DL a few years ago pulled out of NRT-PDX after too many complaints about nasty PDX immigration/customs. (Quite a few were forced to return to Japan as immigration officials did not see them fit to be there. Many were apparently just plain holiday makers.)</font>

It earned Portland the nickname of dePortland. The business leaders got on the case of the local I.N.S. head who decided to enforce rules 100%. The plus side is that DL lost all its international flights.

yes, portland has the most nasty immigration officers outside CA

Well, I got back through YVR yesterday, and except for the very long lines, the customs was unusually easy, though I guess that they are just too busy to check carefully right now. They didn't ask me where I was coming from, probably assumed HK, so it didn't take much time at all. I even declared a few hundred dollars worth of gifts, but was just waved through. It all feels so random....
I also have a phone message from Canada Immigration, probably in response to my letter, so I'll call tomorrow and see if they are aware of YVR's reputation?

Thanks for the update Commuter... I am interested in what they have to say!

Yeah, sorry, I'm so jet-lagged that I got up at 2 p.m. today, and then rushing around to do X-Mas shopping. I'm off to Toronto tomorrow, but I'll get back to them on 27th. Oh, they've left 3 messages already, which means either that, 1) they are actually concerned, or 2) I should be planning to spend the next decade in a cold, isolated prison in Northern BC!

OK, till later, I'll update on what they say.....

I'm back in Vancouver, and just had a phone conversation with Canada Immigration at YVR. They've actually called a few times, and we finally connected. The woman I spoke to was actually very pleasant and said that it was important that people write if they have problems. A few highlights of the conversation:

1. Yes, it's true, they do hire Co-Op students to do passport checking.
2. The lineups are worst from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. and this happens to correspond with lunch hour for staff. Whether or not one could re-schedule lunch hours was not addressed.
3. One reasons that lines may be so long is that agents may be taken off of passport control to deal with problems. That is, if they get 10 people who have problem visas, etc..each of them must be dealt with individually by an agent, and this means the agent cannot work "on the line."
4. She acknowledged that YVR immigration may be more vigilant than many others, but said that they get a lot of problems here, especially "students from Asia" with improper documentation. I'm guessing she means people who have student visas, but really intend to work here.....
5. I asked if it was normal that (as Canadian citizen) my onward tickets would normally be checked, she seemed surprised that this had happened to me (repeatedly). She said, "Of course you have the right to enter as a Canadian citizen." Then she asked if I had shown my Canadian passport at immigration. YES. So, it appears that passport examiners may be taking a bit of license in this case.
6. I asked if they were considering opening a line for people who are business travellers and/or have a CANPASS. She said it's under consideration, but could not say when, if ever, it will be implemented (?!)
7. She checked my record, and assured me that there were no "hits" next to my name, and said that, beyond the profile, there should be no reason to search me so often.
8. I pointed out that, with limited staffing, there is a high opportunity cost to poor targeting-- if you can only search XX people every day, and you are focussing on the wrong people, then you have less time for those who may be a potential risk. She agreed with this.
9. I asked how much training staff receive. It does appear that training is a serious problem (from my perspective), as staff are very young, and my not have the experience and judgement to make good decisions quickly. She said that she didn't know how much training staff receive, but acknowledged that staff are very young.
10. Finally, I asked if Canada Immigration had done studies of other immigration services to ascertain how they manage their services. She assured me that many studies had been undertaken, but could not tell me what lessons had been applied to their own operations at YVR.

So, overall, a not completely satisfying conversation, but at least they did respond, and seemed almost eager to hear my complaints. My only thought is that the more they hear from people with legitimate issues, the more likely it is that something might improve in the future.

Well, one more thing on YVR. I just received a letter as well from Brian Flagel, Director, Vancouver International Airport District, Customs Border Services.

One interesting point that may be of use to others. He writes, "You have indicated that you are now a CANPASS participant. Although the kiosk is closed, you may use your CANPASS clearance privileges to clear primary through the diplomat, crew clearance lane which is much faster than the regular lanes."

So there it is in black and white, if you have a CANPASS, you can avoid the awful lines! Good news!