Trip Reports - Yangon, Mynamar

Another 1k flyer and I traveled to Yangon, I had heard it was extremely backwards, but much to our surpise the city was not backwards, had great infrastucture, roads, communications, cyber cafe'.
Food was extremely cheap and mostly Indian Origin.

The only downside was that they thought they were in New York city with the tourist prices.

For example I had 1 shirt, I pair of pants, 1 underwear washed and ironed. total price $12 US dollars.
We went to a bar, $6 US to get in and $3 for a beer or coke and $5 for rum and coke.

I can't comment on the country side but I would assume from other people I have talked to that it is pretty primative.

I would not hesitate to go back in the future.
Regards,
Robert

Did you go anywhere outside Yangon? in Yangon?

No we were limited to only 2 days, so we enjoyed the local sites only.

Hopefully next time will be longer.

A trip to Bagan is a must. It is like Siem Reap before the crowds. Beautiful local crafts too.

I-flybynight – Rangoon, Burma is my wife’s hometown. I wish I would have known of your travels there to provide some helpful advice. FYI – next time change your money on the “blackmarket” for much better rates.

It is great to known other FTers are traveling to this strange, complicated yet wonderful land.

Nevsky is totallt correct about Bagan. I also recommend a trip to Lake Inle. The CRJ lands on the narrowest runway in the world at Heho International Airport in Burma.



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JD3, UA PE, NW Gold
“I want a hamburger, no a cheeseburger. I want a hotdog. I want a milkshake. I want potato sala--You'll get nothing and like it!”

I went to Rangoon last fall (on the $600 BKK fares -- thanks FT!).

I was also very surprised at the prices. In Bangkok I could get a very filling lunch for $0.75, but in Rangoon the only natives who could afford to "eat out" were members of the military junta.

Shopping at the markets I found much better prices, though the exchange rate fluctuated wildly depending on how recently the police had visited.

The high point of the trip was the "Circle Line" train trip around the city and suburbs. It was not very comfortable -- we sat on wooden slats and the only refreshment was a boy with a bucket of water and communal ladle -- but it was our best sense of the "real" Rangoon. I gathered this was how the middle class commmuted (poorer people took the buses and endured the pollution). Round trip was half a cent for locals, one dollar for westerners -- and I guarantee you will be the only westerner on board. "First Class" is a rope draped across the last boxcar; seating arrangements were enforced by people with guns.

Bring lots of cigarettes for the soldiers, candy for the children, and expect a lot of stares. Men literally fought over our refuse (empty Marlboro pack from the US), and the kids loved our JAL sweets.

We traveled to a temple accessible only by boat on the way to Bagan; I will definitely go back as soon as possible. Next time I will bring more cash and more candy.

dcr

From the sound of these posts, few of these FTer's are concerned that the foreign currency they spent in Myanmar is supporting a military junta that represses democracy and restricts freedom of speech and freedom of movement of its own citizens. I'm no flaming liberal and even the Bush Administration has criticized the junta for repressing democratic activities. Nevertheless, I have travelled to Kengtung and Mongla (NE Myanmar) with local Burmese who sent as little of our tourist dollars as possible to the central government. No one we spoke with wanted to continue living under the existing government. Like other FTer's I witnessed Myanmar's beauty. I also witnessed the results of the government's repression. It is an awful thing to talk with people scared to death to criticise their own government. I am not suggesting that FTer's avoid travelling to Myanmar. Furthermore, I do not claim to be an expert on the complexities of this amazing country. However, I am suggesting that we spend our travel dollars in ways that respect the same democratic principles in the countries that we are visiting that we want for own country.

[This message has been edited by bennytma (edited Mar 02, 2004).]

I will soon be going to Myanmar for 4 nights and 3 days. I will be checking out Yangon for 2 days and I will be spending my final day in the nearby countryside. I expect prices to be pretty expensive (not lodging), but for the fact that I will hire an English speaking driver each day (I don't want to inadvertantly break any rules, ie taking pictures of the wrong things).

Any tips on what to do? I have a Lonely Planet so I will see the main Temples and I guess the Market in Yangon. Any suggestions on where to eat for cheap (ie hawkerstands) I want to have some genuine Burmese cuisine, to judge it formyself..

HI food is extremely inexpensive in Burma in fact you can eat for less than a dollar a meal.
If you are looking to book a driver, most speak english try a post I made on the asian forum for best travel agent in Bangkok use search words travel agnet bangkok. the travel agent is Dado Travel International. I would look it up buy am flying out to Australia right now.
Anyway her name is Miss Marilyn and see has an agency in Yangoon, she is from Yangoon. and one in Bangkok. She got us real good accomodations for $25 a night. Also check her for taxi, trips around Maynamar etc. Very worth while. Email her and tell her you found her listed on Flyer Talk forum and she'll give you a special deal.

One tip. If you have room in your bags, bring back an "EBONY WOOD carved Elephant. It should cost you about $10 to $25 and its worth over a $100 here. Ebony wood is very heavy and its black.
Enjoy.
Robert

I will be staying at the May Shan guesthouse as it seems to be highly reccomended. I think that I will probably be using their driver as my driver/guide so that I don't make any mistakes (ie taking photos of the wrong things etc).

Thanks for the tip on Ebony wood and I will most definitly look up your travel agent. Many thanks for the tip. Anyone else with suggestions on what to eat/do in Yangon? Thanks.

Hello Burma Travelers,

The food is Burma is different - they eat tea leafs and small nuts. The food is a lot of India type curries. I really like some of it especially - a breakfast catfish soup with noddles call Moe Hinga. Ask for it from the locals, they will be delighted. The tourist eating places will serve decent food at a reasonable prices. We took 10 people out for Chinese food at Shan Khan for $80 USDs - lots of food and drinks. I can not afford to do that in the States.

I know nothing about hotels in Rangoon. I stayed at Queen's Park twice when it was new cause my wife's aunts live around the corner. The last coupld of visits I slept on my father-in-laws floor on a mat with the rest of the family.

The one huge do not miss site in Rangoon is Shwe Dagon. Visit this work of wonder early in the morning and after dark. I love this place. I could stay there for hours - I never tire of Shwe Dagon. The LP guide has a good overview of all the various structures which surround Shwe Dagon. Great place to watch people and be watched by the Burmese people. Starring is not considered rude. I am starred at the time everywhere in Burma.

If you travel to Burma - also do not miss Bagan. Wonderful pagodas on a dry plain. Lake Inle is also interesting and relaxing to visit.

There is a great deal wrong in Burma. In the past, 13 years since I have been with my Burmese wife small things have changed but the overall situation for the Burmese people has slowly gotten worse. I am not very hopeful things will change being that most of the free world is busy fighting terrorism. The free world will be too busy with the terror war to help crumble the corrupt socialist military committee dictatorship of Burma. I hope my last two statements are proven wrong over the years.

Burma is a fasicinating place to visit. It is also a safe place to visit. The Burmese people are very friendly, curious and helpful. Nothing to fear traveling to Burma.

PM if you want more information about Burma.

Great place to watch people and be watched by the Burmese people. Starring is not considered rude. I am starred at the time everywhere in Burma.

Is insulting people? For the OP, if you are different in ANY way (abnormally short, tall, fat, white, black, etc.), get used to people staring, laughing, making comments, asking rude questions, etc. Its like a country full of 2nd graders. I disagree with all that has been written on this thread. I have NEVER been treated as poorly as I was in Myanmar. For the OP, bring ample cash, especially in small bills. Everything will be quoted in dollars and you will be thoroughly screwed over every chance you get. Get used to being viewed as a walking dollar instead of a human being. I was quoted 5 dollars to go two miles in a taxicab. Its cheaper than that in the US let alone in a country such as this. The market is filled with lots of crap and things you shouldnt be buying. ivory, turtle shells, rhino horns, elephant tusks, etc. Apparently #2 in Myanmar's official creed of ignoring other countries who try and pressure Myanmar knows no boundaries. Get used to monks begging and demanding money, get used to kids with hands in your pockets, get used to betel nut spit on the ground and occasionally on your feet or other parts of you, and get used to a country with some of the most beautiful icons in the world being visited by some of the worlds poorest people. I couldnt care less about the political issues of the country. Change comes from within and I frankly do not think that the people there are ready to change. The government reflects the people and the people reflect the government.

If youre this close to going then you are going, but just be prepared and have realistic expectations. If anything, you can count yourself as one of the roughly 50,000 visitors that should visit this year. If youre from the US, you are roughly one of 7,000. And JD3, I am sure your wife and her family are all very nice and treat you like royalty. But as someone traveling alone and who knows no one there, I was not. I was made to feel so uncomfortable that I left and will only return under very very particular circumstances.

Darren,

It sounds like you had a bit of an experience in Burma… I am sorry you feel you were treated so poorly.

I would agree it is a country of 2nd graders due to the political situation. They are so sheltered from the reality of the world outside Burma. And yes, they do ask a great deal of blunt questions.

And actually the Burmese vendors and merchants try to get over on me all the time. The sport of it all is very fun if you’re prepared for the experience. If you did not buy Burmese kyats on the black market, then you were not as informed a traveler as you need to be. Never spend USDs on taxi cab rides in Burma.

The monks begging and demanding money were children acting as monks as a part of their religious training. They were not real Buddhist monks.

As for betel nut spit on the ground and occasionally on your feet or other parts of you, a quick spit back in the direction it came usually solves that issue. But, I admit the betel nut spitting is out of control in Burma.

I sort of see why you state, ‘The government reflects the people and the people reflect the government.’ The political situation in Burma drives everything has occurred, that occurs or will occur in that country. It drove all the experiences you encountered in Burma, what it did not drive was your reaction to them.

Darren I spent a couple of weeks in Burma earlier this year. I had a very different experience. I went to Yangon, Mandalay, took the boat down the Irawaddy (sp?) to Bagan and then to Inle Lake. I've been around the world a bit and I have to say the people I ran across in Burma were exceptionally kind and accepting. I didn't get ripped off and I enjoyed a good deal of interaction with people.

I was mystified to read your post. Do you have the same problem in other developing countries? Maybe you expect something different than the country has to offer. I've found the wonder of traveling is finding myself adapting and changing with the environment. It feels a little like learning something and, thereby, growing.

Nor4, I visited my 41, 42, and 43rd countries this summer, including MM. I regard myself as a seasoned traveler and due to budgetary constraints I am limited to doing things on a very, very local level. Taking local busses and trains, eating local food, going to local (read: often free) entertainment, etc. I thoroughly dislike meeting other travelers under most circumstances and would much rather spend my time doing things with the local population. I have been to many countries that probably fit your description of developing including a recent six week stay in one. I have been asked odd questions and given odd nicknames, I have been poked, I have been touched, I have been watched, and I have not in the past had a problem with any of it. I know that I am different than the people that I am going to visit and so I need to go with an open mind and an air of acceptance that *I* am going to be the one who is different. I also accept the fact that not everyone is going to like me. I tend to be quiet and mild mannered, though, so those times are very few and far between. I am glad that your experience in MM was different than mine. I cannot put into words just how badly I wanted to love the country. As I said, I tend to stay out of politics and so I go to places with a very open and objective mind. I have opinions, mind you, but I dont feel its my place in the world to spout them off to everyone that passes by. If I am talking, I am not listening. If I am not listening, I am not learning. But that is irrespective of many things. Not the least of which is that *no one* said hello to me, *no one* asked me any questions other than about my physical appearance, *no one* asked me where I was from, and *many* looked at me as an outsider that was to be disliked. I cant explain why. Maybe its becasue physically I am *very* different from them and that made them uncomfortable. I dont know. But all I can say is that it was not something that made me happy to be there and at a certain point enough was enough. Again, I am glad your experience was good, however, I believe the OP deserves an opposing view as well.

And JD3, I did buy kyats on the black market. I even still have 600 or 700, though I know I am not technically supposed to. I did go in with a lot of information and I dont feel my experience was due to being mis or uninformed. Nor was it from being unprepared for what I was getting myself into. I have been to a lot of SE Asia and I tend to have realistic expectations of what its going to be like there.

I believe Darren's experiences are real (why would he lie?) but my experiences in Myanmar (two trips so far, and third one in October) are much more positive. We stayed in rather cheap accommodation and travelled by train, bus and boat around the country. People are generally friendly, we have chatted with many young people (students) about life in general, sports, and even politics. (they were surprisingly well informed, many people listen to BBC World Service)
Be sure to visit Swedagon Pagoda in Yangon (I have been 4 times, spent more than 20 hours there already, and still can't wait to go back), Bagan (easily 2 full days), Mandalay and Kyaiktyo.
And politically it is no worse to visit Myanmar than to visit the USA that has just started its first puppet court in its concentration camp at Guantanamo.

It would be a shame if such a valuable trip report that actually contains a multitude of perspectives on Myanmar had to be locked down due to name calling, wouldn't it? Lets keep this thread focussed on sharing travel experiences, no matter how different they may be to your own.

Thanks
Sean (B747-437B)
Moderator
Trip Reports

I would have to conclude that Darren had a rather native experience in Burma. I think that is really cool because most tourists to Burma are kept away from local type experiences either by their tour package or lack of willingness to mingle with the locals.

After reading FT for two years, the general demographic I have concluded is not one of the free spirited sojourner with a backpack, but rather an incredibly savvy group of business travelers. It is refreshing to know that there are a couple of people like Darren on FT.

So...youre calling me non-savvy? ;) ;) Thanks for the compliment and observation. I pride myself on exactly that. I also know when to back down and reconsider things. I will give MM another chance (though not for a while due to unrelated things) and I will do my absolute best to see what others see in it. As I said, I sincerely wanted to love the country and I will try again to.

I went to Burma a year and a half ago with my partner, and it was by far the most memorable trip for us in the past few years. (I've been to about 50 countries, so I've been around...)

Rangoon was the least interesting, while Bagan was the most memorable and enchanting. Inle Lake was beautiful and peaceful; Pindaya Cave with some 8,000 Buddhist statues inside was fascinating, and Mandalay was interesting.

Food was cheap. We're vegetarians and managed to find decent (not gourmet) food. About $2 at tourist restaurants, less than $1 at local restaurants. The only extravagant experience was happy hour at the grand old colonial Strand Hotel in Yangon, with friends who work at the US embassy there.

Yes, the begging of money and peddling of souvenirs was a constant nuisance throughout, but I quickly got over it. Depending on my mood, sometimes I'd just ignore them and walk on, even as they'd keep following me around. Other times I'd playfully joke with and tease the kids, and they'd seem to enjoy the exchange even as they went away empty handed.

We also encountered inflated prices from some trisaw drivers, but that's to be expected in any places where one has to bargain. Typically we'd establish a fair price for where we need to go from the locals (e.g. hotel staff, waiters, local tour guide), so we know when to walk away or how to bargain with the drivers. No big deal. They're not bad people; they're just trying to make a living.

And they do provide a good and needed service to tourists. For instance, in Mandalay, we had a driver take us to the foot of the Mandalay Hill. He waited for us with our slippers while we hiked up to the hill-top pagodas and visited for about an hour. When we came back down on the other side, he was waiting for us. He didn't ask for anything extra for all the waiting.

However, after we got dropped off at the Sedona Hotel (to use the bathroom), we walked across the street to the puppet theatre to buy some puppets. Afterwards, the driver magically reappeared and approached us, complaining that he deserved money for taking us to the theatre, which he hadn't. (If he had dropped us off in front of the theatre, he would have gotten a 300 kyat commission from the theatre.) Of course, we did not agree to that. Again, frustrating, yes. Big deal, no. From his viewpoint, he could have earned a commission for him and his family, but it didn't work out in this case. There weren't many tourists, and he probably wouldn't have made any more money that night, so he got desperate and aggressive. It's a tough living.

We always exchanged money on the black market. Again, we'd ask around for the going rate, which varied daily and by city. We paid exclusively in kyat, the local currency. At times they'd quote a price in US dollar, but then we'd quickly switch to - and finish the bargaining - in kyat. Nobody ever forced us to pay in dollars.

Overall, I'd highly recommend Burma, despite the political situation. As recommended in Lonely Planet, it'll be difficult not to enrich the military junta once there, but at least you can try to spend your money as much as possible at locally-owned guest houses, restaurants and shops.

Thanks to everyone who posted info. I'm spending 3 days in Myanmar, all in Yangon, due to time constraints, and I look forward to it. Any more info would be greatly appreciated.

I must say, this has been one of the livliest and most interesting discussions I've seen anywhere on FT in the 4 years I've been around, seriously.

I'm not sure that I saw the "name calling" to which someone alluded (some emotion, maybe), but on this thread I've read of experiences based solely on the facts depending how each individual person perceived them (and I won't bring up "Rashomon" because it's WAY too cliche...:) ). These are interesting, healthy comparisons from differernt people who have travelled there in different ways and in different styles.

Like the poster above, I, too, look forward to more insights to Burma.

Will

I was just in Yangon very recently, about two weeks ago. What an amazing place. I had very little time for the country (3.5 days) so I stuck to Yangon and made a day trip out to Yele Paya (Midriver Pagoda). That being said, I think 2 days in Yangon is plenty, though Schwedagon Pagoda is a sight in itself at all times of the day. I stayed at the May Shan Guesthouse (I'm a student) and paid 20 bucks a night for a triple on the 6th floor (yes it was just me, but the views of Sule Paya were fantastic and worth the extra 5 bucks over a single with no view). The staff at May Shan, a family of Chinese origin are very kind, can arrange tours, have internet services (1 buck for 10 mins) and do other things. My room was spotless, had satellite tv, air con and of course a decent bathroom.

I noticed that Yangon was quite a worn city, many of the great buildings dilapidated, the roads only in decent condition. Sidestreets were bumpy and of third world nature, with open drains and what not. Everyone wears the traditional lungyi and the women where the golden colored stuff on their cheeks as a type of makeup, sunscreen, religious thing. Pretty cute. People were just unbelievable kind and friendly. Everyone stares at tourists as it is not seen as impolite. All it takes is for you to stare back for a few seconds and smile. Immediately, your smile is returned by many more smiles. A beautiful thing indeed. People are more than willing to help and I was never reall accosted by touts, like I was in Cambodia or Thailand. Once in awhile I would be offered a Taxi or Foreign Exchange.

I met a total of 3 people who spoke badly against the Military Junta. The first was on my first day, when I visited Sule Paya. A monk took me aside and we went into this house cum room. We spoke about everything and then the topic turned to the US and Iraq. Then he turned to the Military Gov't and pretty much went off on it. I made sure to stay quiet as I was quite scared as to what could happen to me if the Gov't heard anything from me. He finished his tirade with, "You go and see... Go and see if anyone in this country opens their mouth. No one will." And it was pretty much true. The Burmese seem to be a very quiet and reserved people (duh, or they could face time in a Burmese prison if lucky.. or just get shot). The second man was my tour guide at Shwedagon. He spoke English quite well and it was abvious he was educated. I think he had studied Botany or something (maybe that was my driver?) either way, he had advanced pretty high up on the scale and when he was finished, he began to teach. He was told to teach music, or something totally unrelated to this field of study, by the government and therefore, was no good at it. He bemoaned the educational structure of the country and how the children cannot ask teachers any questions because they teachers will not know the answers and then will get angry with the children because they don't know the answer. He said it was a vicious cylce and that he wanted no part in it, so he left. He also complained about the fact that universities were placed far apart from each other in order to keep students apart (confirmed later by my driver). This was his shot at the government, but he only mentioned the word "gov't" and the word "military" about once or twice. Of course he looked over his shoulder every five seconds and asked us to move once in awhile. I made sure not to ask too many deep questions, since I know he would answer them anyways. The third person was my driver, who took me to Yele Paya and some other places. It was a long day and I got to know him well. He said nothing of the gov't until after Yele Paya when he noted that Gen Khin Nyunt, the present leader was born near there. I stupidly asked whether he liked Khin Nyunt more than the last guy (Nyunt just became the leader in 2003). He smiled and said he could not answer, while I, in realizing my error, profusely apologized for being an insensitive ........ However, that night, after dinner we were going by Shwedagon when he pointed out the Parliament building across from it. He looked at me and said "Parliament not working right now." He smiled, paused and began laughing "Parliament not working for very long time!" We both had a good laugh at that and left it there.

The Bogyoke Aung San market is very cool, though all the carvings are teak wood and not Ebony wood as I previously had heard. Apparently there are no Ebony forests in Myanmar and the black carvings are merely teak with black shoe polish (I saw the guys putting shoe polish on them). Carvings are still cheap and beautiful though.

Due to sanctions, no credit cards are accepted. It is also imperative to note that I could not access my web based email, yahoo, as Gov't firewalls blocked it off. However one could get into yahoo mail via mail.yahoo.co.in and other non US manipulations. However, once the server figured out that you were a US user, access to your inbox was denied. So I think Indians and Singaporeans and non Burmese enemies can access Yahoo, but I am not sure. www.mail2web.com or whatever that site is, did not work for me. Food is quite good. 999 Shan Noodle being a good place (thanks Lonely planet), and other places outside of town catering to Burmese (my driver took me). Great Indian food. Esp at the Maharaja Restaurant, ask any taxi driver and they will take you. Fantastic Indian fare for less than 4 bucks, nearly a months salary there, but cheap for us. Great service, they hail you cabs and above all the food is great. Myanmar Beer is also quite decent and cheap.

I saw most things. Shwedagaon Paya, Sule Paya, Yele Paya, another Pagoda en route to Yele, National Museum, Bogyoke Aung San Market. Definitely encourage people to visit this nation and see it for themselves. I feel terrible for the people. Such a great people are being repressed.

thanks for the report Jamoldo, how did you travel there?

I got into Yangon through Bangkok. I flew Thai from Bangkok. I think they got like 3 times daily, though you might want to check that. I tried to avoid supporting the Gov't so I did not fly Myanma Air, though my Thai flight, using Thai metal was Myanma codeshare. You can also take Silk Air from Singapore, and some other regional carriers from nearby countries. I think Bangkok Air goes there. And Air Mandalay runs twice a week to Chiang Mai from Yangon (and back). Airfare to Myanmar is not cheap.

I got into Yangon through Bangkok. I flew Thai from Bangkok. I think they got like 3 times daily, though you might want to check that. I tried to avoid supporting the Gov't so I did not fly Myanma Air, though my Thai flight, using Thai metal was Myanma codeshare. You can also take Silk Air from Singapore, and some other regional carriers from nearby countries. I think Bangkok Air goes there. And Air Mandalay runs twice a week to Chiang Mai from Yangon (and back). Airfare to Myanmar is not cheap.

We will fly BKK - RGN - BKK in October for 7000 THB (approximately € 140 or US$ 170) return on Bangkok Airways. You can book on-line.

I went there in January of 2002. I arrived in Yangon from LAX a long trip Via Hongkong and Bangkok. I was told what to expect so I wasn't too surprised. I was only to SEA once before and liked the rustic experience. I had a limited time so I decided to book a tour with A&K. I know it's so touristy and overpriced but, I was able to afford it and it was very well orginized. I was travelling on my own and had wonderful guides at every point. I was able to chose the guesthouses I wanted upon arrival to each place. They also steered me towards the cafes that had "clean kitchens". So what you're eating in a place with other western tourists. It sure beats stomach flu! I liked Inle Lake the most and Kalaw in the Shan State. It was a wonderful experience seeing the floating villages. The Market was a bit much but, I enjoyed the open spaces, the absence of air traffic and mobile phone antenas and the quiet of the evenings. Kalaw was chilly at night and ideal for light treking. YOu have to share the trails with the cows bringing wood and supplies into town and they always have the right of way! I didn't care much for Mandalay and found it quite uninteresting. Pagan was wonderful. The one nice resort there was great for the few days I spent there. I did get very sick but it was my fault for eating at a truck stop.
I'd go again but want to see other parts of SEA first.
Besos, Ramondo

Thanks, very interesting report

We always exchanged money on the black market. Again, we'd ask around for the going rate, which varied daily and by city. We paid exclusively in kyat, the local currency. At times they'd quote a price in US dollar, but then we'd quickly switch to - and finish the bargaining - in kyat. Nobody ever forced us to pay in dollars.



The part I find interesting is that the exchange rate is around 6.5 Kyat to one $US. Yet the Black Market is over 1000 to one $US.

I've travelled to well over countries and have never seen such a spread. About 150 times the official rate.

We go there for a week's vacation in a few days time, and take a local ferry up the Irrawaddy from Bagan to Mandalay which sounds like a fun adventure. :)