Trip Reports - BA vs Eurostar Plus to/from the outskirts of Paris...

Well, if you live in London, you'll have seen the millons upon millions of signs advertising the new high-speed rail link to the Channel Tunnel. If not, well, London-Paris is now 2h35 by train. Well, it's actually more like 2h45, with a couple of trains per day at 2h35. But all in all, that's not bad. Well, I had a trip over to Paris: BA from LCY out, TGV and Eurostar from MLV Chessy (aka Disneyland) back (due to last-minute changes). So, here's the observations...

LCY is a small airport, handling mostly props and ARJs/146s, in London's Docklands area. It's small, has a 10-minute minimum check-in, is near the financial district (the 'city') and altogether a nice place. BA fly into CDG rather than ORY (as most of the AF flights from LCY do), which can be a nightmare, but thanks to their recent transfer from T1 to T2B at Roissy (CDG), it's not as bad as it used to be.

I was in Y, and OLCId myself a lovely 2+3 seat at the front of an ARJ (BA always have a couple of C-size seats at the front of Y on short-hauls) which was all very nice. Got a cab from the office (in the City) to LCY - an easy 30-minute ride. Now BA state that you need a 45-minute check-in at LCY, but on phoning them, they confirmed that 10 minutes was enough. Got there with 30 minutes to spare anyway, got my BP in seconds with the e-checkin (to avoid the whole 3 people at the desk) went upstairs, was through security 30 seconds later and in the pleasant little departures lounge (no airline lounges here - not that you'd need them), and settled down into a nice little leather armchair with a coffee and a cigarette, watching little planes taking off and landing at this little airport.

Our flight is called, and I ignore it (LCY has the 'holding pen' structure, which can be a little annoying), but wander along to the gate a little later. I'm expecting it to be crammed full - I wondered how they'd manage 100-seater aircraft at a little airport like this - but it's almost empty. I wait, and wait, and... We board, about half an hour late. I take my seat, and count the passengers: 17 for a 100-seater aircraft. Not brilliant for BA... But there's loads of space, and we're all settled in. It's nicely done out, in standard BA blue leather - 2+3 in C, 3+3 in Y (except for me http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif). Not quite as nice as the mainline planes, but comfortable nonetheless.

And half an hour later, we're still there. We have the explanation: a payment dispute over fuel... Hmm, strange. An exchange of documents, and dire warnings about the explosive properties of aircraft fuel later, and we taxi to the end of the runway. Now, LCY is build on an old pontoon in the docks, and doesn't have a huge dock. I've never taken off here in a jet before. We do a standing start. It's windy anyway, so the plane is rattling about as the engines are stuck on full whack with the brakes on, then WHAM! We're thrust back into our seats and go skeetering off, up straight towards Canary Wharf (the tallest tower block in London) and then up and down and hard hard hard left, through the clouds and the next thing you know, we're looking down at the South Coast.

BA's All Day Deli bag is served and, despite looking as lovely as usual, the beef sandwich is also smothered in one of my least favourite substances in the world, mayonnaise. As usual. Hmph. Anyway, it's an empty flight, they've got the BA CityJet smilers on board, and it's wonderful service, with as much to eat and drink as you could manage on this vanishingly short 35-minute-airborne flight. We're starting our descent for CDG before we know it. We overfly the A1, and it's backed up past Roissy, so I make a mental note to get the RER in to Paris. We land, and head round to a remote stand.

Ah yes, the flipside of flying from a convenient little regional airport to an international hub - remote stands for small planes. Oh well, there's not many of us, and we're up at 2B quickly. I know many people dislike CDG, but 2B is well-designed for short-haul, and I'm out, and having a smoke while walking along to the RER station (how nice not to have to get that bus from T1 to Roissypole...)

A surprisingly travel-unfriendly station this, given it's in an airport (and has a TGV station for rail-air connections). Lots of steps and escalators. Anyway, I get to the platform and notice that all trains are stopping everywhere between Roissy and Paris (and there's some not-too-nice areas in that part of Parisian suburbia), and the times all seem out of kilter. I put it down to a computer error, settle into the train, and wait.

Just out of CDG1 station, and they announce the reason for this. There's a broken rail. Trains are down to 1 track for a section. We chug along, and it takes over an hour to reach Châtelet Les Halles, unlike the normal 30 minutes. Annoying. I change for the Metro and get to the hotel.

Decent journey, some hiccoughs, end-to-end in 4 hours.

Return to follow.

...and back.

Now, I was working on the outskirts of Paris, in Marne la Vallée, and had changed my return, so thought I'd try the Eurostar Plus journey back; that is, a TGV from Chessy Marne la Vallée (aka Disneyland) to Lille Europe, and the Eurostar back to London from there.

This route is a handy one. It also stops at Massy TGV in the South of Paris and CDG. But, because your ticket says Marne la Vallée, restrictions for Leisure fares, which apply to Paris-Nord, are waived. So, my ticket is cheap, and I'm in 1st class. How do I find 'em? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I get the RER from the business park at Noisy-Champs out to Chessy. This is easy. I grab a quick coffee at Chessy station, then am on my TGV. No check-in, no security, just nice and simple. Nice airy, modern station, with electronic guides so you can locate your carriage before the train arrives.

TGV 1st gives you the option of many different seating arrangements. I have a single airline-style seat, which suits me perfectly. There's various others, including a 'club room' at the very front of the train. The seats are very well padded, give you a nice amount of space, but don't recline. It's very comfortable, though. The seats are done out in thin black-and-white stripes, and look good, but the carriage does look a little worn through use.

Anyway, we stop at CDG, leave the Paris region, and then the engines kick in. Wow! At 300km/h, the country zooms past. Overbridges barely register. The foreground outside your window is a blur. The autoroute next to the railway line looks almost stationary. The sun sets over Picardy, and a mere hour later, we're 130 miles away in Lille.

Now, I like Lille a lot, but have no time now to explore. You have to check-in for Eurostar 30 minutes before departure. I have no idea what happens if you buy a Eurostar Plus connecting ticket and you miss check-in, but luckily, I don't have to test this. We file through French and UK passport controls, airport-style security and sniffer dogs, and are kept in a holding pen. We are released down to the platform and the impressive, bulbous yellow and grey train rolls in from Brussels.

Not too busy in Lille, so boarding is a civilised affair, and I wait by my seat (which is facing someone in the middle of masses of paperwork) until we leave, so I can grab a single seat.

1st class on Eurostar services between the UK and France includes a hot meal, which is served immediately on departure from Lille. This train stops at Ashford in Kent to let passengers off, so the meal service must be finished by then - less than an hour from departure from Lille. Trilingual menus are handed out (the train's coming from Belgium) and I have a smoked salmon starter, a delicious pork and creamed leek main course with potato purée. This is followed by some nice goats cheese and a decent chocolate mousse. There's some decent wines on offer, judging from the appreciative murmurs around me, but I don't drink, so settle for some Badoit...

I notice that the menu is laid out so that dessert is before cheese in English, but vice-versa in French. Nice touch.

The carriage layout is similar to the TGV. The seats are harder, and done in a dark brown/grey, but comfortable, and with good headrests. They recline, and cleverly - the person behind is not at all inconvenienced. The seat bottom moves forward, and the headrest stays in position while the seat back goes at an angle. Nicely designed, and makes for a very comfortable journey.

By now, we've gone past Ashford, and are on to the UK's first high-speed (300km/h) stretch of railway line. This is a welcome, albeit very delayed arrival. We speed along, now in the dark, extremely smoothly. At this point, I'm regretting the removal of the smoking carriage, although I understand why it happened. It was stupidly designed. Firstly, it had barely any ventilation, so no smoker would choose to sit there, but rather in the adjacent carriage, thus making it a waste of space. Then, they decided to place them next to the buffet car, meaning that any 2nd class passenger wanting a drink had to walk through it. Not at all clever. Putting a well-ventilated carriage (or sealed compartment) at the end would have been far smarter, and would have avoided the current situation of people smoking in vestibules and delaying trains by getting out at intermediate stops. Anyway, I can wait, and we reach South London...

...and the usual happens. We transfer on to the South London commuter lines, and get stuck in traffic. These are ancient, busy lines, full of ancient, busy trains. Roll on the high-speed line all the way to London. We get to Waterloo 30 minutes late, and go through yet another passport control. I hop on a bus, and am home half an hour later.

Very nice journey: comfortable, good food, good price, and convenient locations. Shame about the delay. The Eurostar Plus interlining is excellent. It's a shame about the excessive check-in time for the Eurostar, though, and the poor quality of the security holding areas.

All in all a more relaxing experience than flying, but not without the queues and security checks that you'd hope to avoid with rail travel. End-to-end in 4 hours.

On balance... Well, I'm not sure. If I were going from work to a hotel, the LCY option would probably be faster, but less relaxing. If I had to do some work on the way, Eurostar + TGV would certainly make like easier.

So, ultimately, it's going to come down to price. Which will vary each time. Still, it's nice to have the choice.

Good report! I much prefer the Eurostar into Gare du Nord. DeGaulle makes me crazy!! Although, I often much cheaper fares out of LCY, LHR, and LGW than the Eurostar. I see that you live in my old neighborhood. I used to live in SW8 5PN.

Those were the days.....

Just a note about LCY. While the airport has no departure tax/fees, it does charge a stiff arrivals one.

Thanks for the report stut... a nice comparison between the two options.

My thanks too, stut, for the transchannel details, especially the Eurostar First description. I'll be doing F in Eurostar from Paris-Nord in a couple of weeks and so it's nice to know what I'll be having for dinner.

Hi all.

Wow, another person who knows where SW8 is! Who maybe even knows the joys of the Priory Arms and the very different joys of the Swan http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif And London's little-know Portuguese district. I love this part of town, it's a mixture of absolutely everything, and handy for Brixton & Clapham, my favourite going-out areas, and 15 minutes up to the City for work. Away with all the South London-phobes!

On the food - I have had good experiences this time, and in the past with Eurostar F food. You get a choice of meat or fish (and SPMLs pre-ordered). It's obviously not restaurant quality, but above most airline C/J food I have tasted.

My major criticism with Eurostar, coming from Paris, is the awful waiting area there. You are held there right up until 10 minutes before departure, and, if you're on a busy train, there's not enough seats to hold you all (and barely enough space). I do question the usefulness of the security checks on the Eurostar - they have none of this on the trains that go through Swiss tunnels, through Roissy and Satolas airports, across many different borders... Well, anyway, that's a whole different argument. I look forward to the day when you can just roll up to an international train to/from the UK, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

However, if you're in a premium/business first class (which I wasn't), you do get use of a newly-opened lounge at the Paris and London terminals, which is supposed to be rather nice.

On CDG - yes, it's got itself into a bit of a state. Thankfully they're finally re-doing Aérogare 1, which has descended from the avant-garde international gateway it was into an utter mess. 2B (BA's new home) was rather more impressive in its design, but the whole 'check-in just before departure' system is questionable. Transport to/from CDG is dodgy too - the buses can be convenient off-peak, but can take forever otherwise. RER B seems now to be plagued by problems, and lobbying from local groups has (justifiably) seen the express CDG to Paris-Nord trains cut. But that means you really don't want to travel on it late at night. Plus, the inter-terminal transit (a VAL system rather like in ORY) was canned and dismantled after construction - at huge waste of cost - and leaves transfer from some terminals to the RER less than satisfactory.

LCY's landing charge is hefty, but it's such a convenient airport... I don't know now, but LGW used to charge only for departure, so the smart thing was to fly LCY-XXX-LGW, if you wanted to save money...

Stut,

Know it well. I used to "hang my hat" at the Builders Arms, and Finnegans Wake on Gloucester. Have partaked in a lager or two at the Priory as well.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stut:

However, if you're in a premium/business first class (which I wasn't), you do get use of a newly-opened lounge at the Paris and London terminals, which is supposed to be rather nice.
</font>

Actually, in Paris it is the AF Salon L'Espace. The admission of SWISS into OneWorld must have come as a surprise to the planners, as only SWISS has a separate lounge in Terminal 2B.

As to the comparison with the Eurostar, I can only say that although I had meetings near LHR and therefore decided to use the plane, my last two flights from CDG to LHR were heavily delayed :
- Friday, on BA, departure delayed by 40mn; at LHR, we had to wait another 30mn to cross a runway and reach an available parking stand
- Sunday, on AF, we had to wait 20mn near T2 in order to wait for the departure of a TP flight (although actually it was an IB aircraft that we saw leaving the parking stand)

I hope that BAA usually does a better job.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JOUY31:
Actually, in Paris it is the AF Salon L'Espace. The admission of SWISS into OneWorld must have come as a surprise to the planners, as only SWISS has a separate lounge in Terminal 2B.</font>

Yes, and I believe BA are building a new lounge there (or possibly expanding the LX one). But I was actually referring to the Eurostar Lounges at Waterloo and Gare du Nord...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
As to the comparison with the Eurostar, I can only say that although I had meetings near LHR and therefore decided to use the plane, my last two flights from CDG to LHR were heavily delayed :
- Friday, on BA, departure delayed by 40mn; at LHR, we had to wait another 30mn to cross a runway and reach an available parking stand
- Sunday, on AF, we had to wait 20mn near T2 in order to wait for the departure of a TP flight (although actually it was an IB aircraft that we saw leaving the parking stand)

I hope that BAA usually does a better job.</font>

You will be left hoping in vain. It's not always BAA's fault, plenty of it is just down to congestion. I am very often delayed going into LHR (stack over NE London or awaiting a gate) - there's just too much traffic (and too few gates). BAA, however, are pretty bad - LHR is a mess, has much of it broken, and any useful waiting area has been turned into shops. With all of this, I still wonder why it's so popular. Given the choice, I'd always choose LCY or LGW (North at least) way ahead of LHR.